and called himself Ali's 'prophet' (at which point Ali burned him at the stake). How do Shia view him and his beliefs?
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Posted 25 September 2006 - 11:01 PM
You've prolly all been asked this before, but in the spirit of knowing al-haqq, I have to ask: who was Ibn Sabah and what is his relationship with Shiism? According to many Sunnis, Ibn Sabah was in fact the founder of Shiism, and later attributed divinity to Ali and called himself Ali's 'prophet' (at which point Ali burned him at the stake). How do Shia view him and his beliefs?
and called himself Ali's 'prophet' (at which point Ali burned him at the stake). How do Shia view him and his beliefs?
I've been banned from ummah.com :(
#2
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السيد مرتضى العاملي
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Posted 25 September 2006 - 11:10 PM
abdullah ibn saba has nothing to do with the Shia thought of the Imams,
some sunnis say that abdullah ibn saba (the jew) was the founder of shiism in order to harm the name of shiism.
the founder of the Shia thought is the Prophet Mohammad
some sunnis say that abdullah ibn saba (the jew) was the founder of shiism in order to harm the name of shiism.
the founder of the Shia thought is the Prophet Mohammad
يا مشهوراً في السماوات، ويا مشهوراً في الأرضين ويا مشهوراً في الدنيا، ويا مشهوراً في الآخرة، جهدتْ الجبابرة والملوك على إطفاء نورك وإخماد ذكرك فأبى الله لذكرك إلا علواً ولنورك إلا ضياءً ونماءً ولوْ كره المشركون
السلام عليك يا يعسوب الدين
السلام عليك يا يعسوب الدين
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Sulaiman Daniel
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Posted 26 September 2006 - 05:26 PM
He was nothing. Many noted SUnni Scholars have even said it. the man Never existed. he is a myth created by the enemies of the Ahlul Bayt.
There is No god But Allah, and Muhammad is his Prophet.
There is no truth but the truth of Allah, which is on the side of the oppressed.
There is no love but that of the Ahlul Bayt
There is no state or government but that of Imam Al Mahdi, may Allah Hasten his return.
There is no truth but the truth of Allah, which is on the side of the oppressed.
There is no love but that of the Ahlul Bayt
There is no state or government but that of Imam Al Mahdi, may Allah Hasten his return.
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Posted 26 September 2006 - 07:40 PM
Fedayin, on Sep 26 2006, 04:01 AM, said:
You've prolly all been asked this before, but in the spirit of knowing al-haqq, I have to ask: who was Ibn Sabah and what is his relationship with Shiism? According to many Sunnis, Ibn Sabah was in fact the founder of Shiism, and later attributed divinity to Ali and called himself Ali's 'prophet' (at which point Ali burned him at the stake). How do Shia view him and his beliefs?
and called himself Ali's 'prophet' (at which point Ali burned him at the stake). How do Shia view him and his beliefs?malicious production of one of the disciples of the devil, namely Sayf Ibn
Umar al-Tamimi. He was a story teller, lived in the second century after
Hijrah, who shaped his stories by some primary facts he found in the
documented history of Islam available at that time. Sayf wrote a novel much
the same as what Salman Rushdi did in "Satanic Verses" with similar
motives, but with the difference that the role of Satan in this case was
given to poor Abdullah Ibn Saba.
Sayf Ibn Umar distorted the biographies of the companions of the Holy
Prophet (PBUH&HF) to please the government of his time, and to distort the
history of Shia and to ridicule Islam. Sayf was a staunch advocate of the
Umayads, who were known throughout history to be one of the worst enemies
of Ahlul-Bayt, and as such, it was in his best interest to invent such
stories to degrade the Shia. In his stories however he followed many other
goals one of which was to cleverly elevate the status of his tribe over
others by inventing some imaginary companions form his tribe. However many
Sunni scholars found numerous unjustifiable heresies in his reports which
was not limited to the issue of Abdullah Ibn Saba, and consequently they
abandoned his reports, and accuse him as a man of forgery and lies. Yet
Sayf's works enjoyed the support of a minority of Sunnis to this date.
Here, later on, I give the sayings of several leading Sunni scholars, who
all confirmed that Sayf Ibn Umar was an untrustworthy person and his
stories are void.
Ideological studies indicate that most of those who hate the Shi'ite school
of thought (a lot of whom being the enemies of Islam anyway) justify their
enmity on this obvious heresy which they would exploit to backup their
attack on Shia. The approach which resembles the one adopted by Sayf Ibn
Umar himself.
The Origin of The Tale
The tale of Abdullah Ibn Saba is over twelve centuries old. Historians
and writers, one after the other recorded it, adding more and more to it.
With a glance at the chain of transmitters of this story, you will find the
name of Sayf sitting in there. The following historians recorded directly
from Sayf:
(1) Tabari.
(2) Dhahabi. He has also cited from Tabari(1).
(3) Ibn Abi Bakir. He has also recorded from Ibn Athir(15), who has
recorded from Tabari(1).
(4) Ibn Asakir.
The following have recorded indirectly from Sayf:
(5) Nicholson from Tabari(1).
(6) Encyclopedia of Islam from Tabari(1).
(7) Van Floton from Tabari(1).
(8) Wellhauzen from Tabari(1).
(9) Mirkhand from Tabari(1).
(10) Ahmad Amin from Tabari(1), and from Wellhauzen(8).
(11) Farid Wajdi from Tabari(1).
(12) Hasan Ibrahim from Tabari(1).
(13) Saeed Afghani from Tabari(1), and from Ibn Abi Bakir(3), Ibn
Asakir(4), and Ibn Badran(21).
(14) Ibn Khaldoon from Tabari(1).
(15) Ibn Athir from Tabari(1).
(16) Ibn Kathir from Tabari(1).
(17) Donaldson from Nicholson(5), and from Encyclopedia(6).
(18) Ghiath al-Din from Mirkhand(9).
(19) Abul Fida from Ibn Athir(15).
(20) Rashid Ridha from Ibn Athir(15).
(21) Ibn Badran from Ibn Asakir(4).
(22) Bostani from Ibn Kathir(16).
The above list gives evidence to the fact that the fictitious stories
around the character of Abdullah Ibn Saba has been started by Sayf and
cited next by Tabari directly from Sayf's book as Tabari mentioned himself
(See the chain of narrators of traditions related to Abdullah Ibn Saba,
inside the History of Tabari. For instance, see the index of Vol. 15,
English version, under the name of Sayf Ibn Umar or Abdullah Ibn Saba).
Therefore, Sayf's character and his history should be studied and analyzed
with a great care.
Who Is Sayf?
Sayf Ibn Umar al-Dhabbi al-Usayyidi al-Tamimi lived in the second century
of the Muslim era (8th century AD) and died after the year 170 AH (750 AD).
al-Dhahabi said that Sayf died during the rule of Haroon al-Rashid in
Baghdad (Iraq). During his life, Sayf wrote the following two books which
were available even during the reign of Umayad:
1. "al-Fotooh wa al-Riddah" which is the history of the period before the
death of the Prophet (PBUH&HF) until the third Caliph Uthman resumed
office as the ruler of Muslim world.
2. "al-Jamal wa Maseeri Aisha wa Ali" which is the history from the
murder of Uthman to the battle of Jamal (the fight that happened
between Imam Ali and some companions).
These books are now lost but survived for a number of centuries after
Sayf's own lifetime. Based on what we found, the last person who had said
that he had possessed Sayf's books was Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani (d. 852 AH).
These two books of Sayf contained more action than truth, some forged
stories, and some true events which, intentionally, have been recorded in a
ridiculing manner.
Since Sayf spoke about some of the companions of the Prophet (PBUH&HF) and
also invented some companions with strange names, his stories have affected
the history of early Islam. Some biographers such as the authors of "Usdul
Ghabah", "Isti'ab" and "Isabah" and geographers such as the authors of
"Mu'jamul Boldan" and "al-Rawzul mi'tar" have written the life of some
companions of the Prophet, and named places which exist only in the books
written by Sayf. Because of this, the life and character of Sayf and his
credibility should be carefully investigated.
What Do Sunni Scholars Say About Sayf?
The following leading Sunni scholars confirm that Sayf Ibn Umar was a well-
known liar and untrustworthy:
(1) al-Hakim (d. 405 AH) wrote: "Sayf is accused of being a heretic. His
narrations are abandoned."
(2) al-Nisa'i (d. 303 AH) wrote: "Sayf's narrations are weak and they
should be disregarded because he was unreliable and untrustworthy."
(3) Yahya Ibn Mueen (d. 233 AH) wrote: "Sayf's narrations are weak and
useless."
(4) Abu Hatam (d. 277 AH) wrote: "Sayf's Hadith is rejected."
(5) Ibn Abi Hatam (d. 327 AH) wrote: "Scholars have abandoned Sayf's
narrations."
(6) Abu Dawud (d. 316 AH) wrote: "Sayf is nothing. He was a liar. Some of
his Hadiths were conveyed and the majority of them are denied."
(7) Ibn Habban (d. 354 AH) wrote: "Sayf attributed fabricated traditions
to the good reporters. He was accused of being a heretic and a liar."
(8) Ibn Abd al-Barr (d. 462 AH) mentined in his writing abut al-Qa'qa:
"Sayf reported that al-Qa'qa Said: I attended the death of the Prophet
Muhammad." Ibn Adb al-Barr continued: "Ibn Abu Hatam said: Sayf is
weak. Thus, what was conveyed of the presence of al-Qa'qa at the death
of the Prophet is rejected. We mentioned the Sayf's traditions for
knowledge only."
(9) al-Darqutini (d. 385 AH) wrote: "Sayf is weak".
(10) Firoozabadi (d. 817 AH) in "Towalif" mentioned Sayf and some others by
saying: "They are weak."
(11) Ibn al-Sakan (d. 353 AH) wrote: "Sayf is weak."
(12) Safi al-Din (d. 923 AH) wrote: "Sayf is considered weak."
(13) Ibn Udei (d. 365 AH) wrote about Sayf: "He is weak. Some of his
narrations are famous yet the majority of his narrations are
disgraceful and not followed."
(14) al-Suyuti (d. 900 AH) wrote: "Sayf's Hadith is weak."
(15) Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani (d. 852 AH) wrote after mentioning a tradition:
"Many reporters of this tradition are weak, and the weakest among them
is Sayf."
It is interesting to see that although al-Dhahabi (d. 748 AH) has quoted
from the book of Sayf in his History, he has mentioned in his other book
that Sayf as a weak narrator. In "al-Mughni fi al-Dhu'afa'" al-Dhahabi
wrote:
"Sayf has two books which have been unanimously abandoned by the
scholars." (al-Mughni fi al-Dhu'afa', by al-Dhahabi, p292)
The result of the investigation into Sayf's life shows that Sayf was an
agnostic and an unreliable story teller. Stories told by him are dubious
and are entirely or partly forged. In his stories, he has used names of
cities which never existed in the world. Abdullah Ibn Saba are the star of
those stories. He also introduced some 150 imaginary companions for the
Prophet to fill out the empty characters of his scenarios, by giving them
some strange names which are not found in any other documents. Also the
timing of the events given by Sayf's narrations contradict the authentic
Sunni documents. Sayf has also used imaginary chains of narrators, and
reported many miraculous events (like talking cows with human etc...).
Some of the defenders of Sayf hold the opinion that eventhough he was known
as a weak transmitter and many scholars of Hadith do not trust his reports,
it is only in the matter of the Shari'ah (the Law), but not in the matter
of historical report!
By that, they want to rely on the "historical" stories of someone who was
regarded a liar and "zindeeq"! If the problem of Sayf was just lack of
knowledge about Shari'ah (divine law), one could say he can be trusted on
other accounts. But the problem with Sayf was that he was a liar, and made
lots of forgery by constructing the events, attributed fabricated
traditions to good narrators. Then such person becomes questionable for
almost everything. As for his historical accounts we will witness in
Part V that even Christian historians have confirmed great inconsistencies
between his historical report and other sober transmitters. No need to
mention Sunni and Shia opinion on the heretical nature of Sayf.
The stories about Abdullah Ibn Saba which do
NOT have any source or any chain of transmitters
There are some reports from both Shia and Sunni scholars, historians, and
story tellers of ancient cultures who wrote few lines about Abdullah Ibn
Saba but did not supply any evidence for their claims, nor did they provide
any chain of supportive authorities (isnad) for their reports to be
examined.
For instance, their reports start with: "some people say so and so ..." or
"some scholars say so and so ..." without mentioning who that scholar was,
and where they got it from. It was based on rumor which was propagated by
Umayads (AFTER Sayf's work) which had reached them, and some based on the
authors' own creativity. This is inferred when we see these authors have
reported some legends which are clearly false and rejected by logic. These
reports are provided by those who wrote books about "al-Milal wa Nihal"
(stories about civilizations and cultures) or "al-Firaq" (divisions/sects).
Among the Sunnis who mentioned the name of Abdullah Ibn Saba in their
stories WITHOUT bringing any source for their claims, are:
(1) Ali Ibn Isma'il al-Ash'ari (d. 330) in his book "Maqalat al-
Islamiyin" (Essays about the People of Islam).
(2) Abdul-Qahir Ibn Tahir al-Baghdadi (d. 429) in his book "al-Farq Bain
al-Firaq" (Differences of the Sects).
(3) Muhammad Ibn Abdil-Karim al-Shahrastani (d. 548) in his book "al-Milal
wan Nihal" (Nations and Cultures).
The above mentioned Sunnis do not give any source or any chain of authority
for their story about Abdullah Ibn Saba. They have competed with each other
to increase the number of sects in Islam with strange names such as al-
Kawusiyyah, al-Tayyarah, al-Mamturah, al-Ghrabiyyah, al-Ma'lumiyyah !!,
al-Majhuliyyah !!! and so on WITHOUT giving any source or reference for
their claims. Living in medieval times, these authors presumed that writing
stranger stories and attributing unrealistic events to different Muslim
nations will make them more reputable than the other competitors in this
area. And by that, they caused a tragic damage to the history of Islam and
committed a great crime for what they have falsely attributed to the Muslim
nations.
Some of them have provided silly legends and fairy-tales whose falsehood
are easy to detect nowadays, though it would have been possible for them to
succeed in passing off such stories as history in those times. For
instance, al-Shahrastani in his book "al-Milal wan Nihal" has mentioned
that there was a group of semi-human creatures in the name of "al-Nas-Naas"
with only half face, one eye, one hand, and one leg. Muslims could talk to
these semi-human creatures and they even exchanged poetry!!! Some Muslims
even used to go hunting these semi-human creatures and they used to eat
them!!! These semi-humans could jump faster than a horse and were
ruminant/cud- chewers!!! al-Shahrastani further mentioned that al-
Mutawakkil, the Abbasid Caliph, ordered the scientists of his time to
investigate about these creatures!!! (See al-Milal wan Nihal, by al-
Sharastani)
People at that time did not have the modern tools that would enable them
to discover the falsehood these unrealistic stories and fairy-tales, and
perhaps they would have preferred more extensive and more strange
collections which may have seemed a guarantee of their accuracy, eventhough
they were provided with no reference.
Also by chronological study of the life time of these authors, we can
conclude that ALL of them were long after the era of Sayf Ibn Umar, and
even after al-Tabari. So it is quite possible that they all got the story
of Abdullah Ibn Saba from Sayf. This claim becomes more strong when one
observes that non of them mentioned the source of their reports which might
be due to the fact that Sayf Ibn Umar's scandal was known to every body by
that time and they did not want to discredit their books by mentioning its
source. Moreover there exists NO document available related to Abdullah Ibn
Saba BEFORE Sayf. The scholars or historians who lived before Sayf Ibn Umar
NEVER mentioned the name of Abdullah Ibn Saba in their books. This shows
that if Ibn Saba ever existed he was not anything important for the
historians before Sayf. This is also another reason to believe that what
was propagated around the personality of Abdullah Ibn Saba was initiated
by the mass propaganda of Sayf Ibn Umar al-Tamimi.
Among the Shia who mentioned the name of Abdullah Ibn Saba but without any
information regarding to their source, are the following two historians:
(1) Sa'ad Ibn Abdillah al-Ash'ari al-Qummi (d. 301) in his book "al-Maqalat
wal-Firaq" mentioned a report in which there exists the name of
Abdullah Ibn Saba. But he did not mention any chain of authorities nor
did he mention from whom (or which book) he got the story and what his
source was. Moreover al-Ash'ari al-Qummi has narrated many traditions
from Sunni authorities. al-Najjashi (d. 450) in his "al-Rijal" said
that al-Ash'ari al-Qummi traveled to many places and was well-known
for his relation with Sunni historians and heard many stories from
them. He wrote many weak reports from what he heard, one of which is
a short story about Abdullah Ibn Saba, with no reference.
(2) Hasan Ibn Musa al-Nawbakhti (d. 310) who was a Shia historian who
provided in his book "al-Firaq" a report in which is the name of
Abdullah Ibn Saba. However he never mentioned from whom he got the
report and what his source was.
The above two were the Shia who originally provided some information about
the existence of an accursed man in the name of Abdullah Ibn Saba at the
time of Imam Ali
. Notice that all of them reported these informationlong after Sayf Ibn Umar and even after al-Tabari wrote his history. Thus
they might perhaps got the information from Sayf or those who quoted from
him such as al-Tabari. This becomes more probable when we see that they
wrote "Some people say so and so..." without giving any documented support
(isnad) or the name of those "some people"!
Reports about Abdullah Ibn Saba which
were NOT transmitted through Sayf Ibn Umar
We should point out however that there are less than 14 reports available
in the collections of Shia and Sunni which mentions the name of Abdullah
Ibn Saba, and are supplied with the chain of authorities, but in their
chain of authorities the name of Sayf does not exist.
As for the Shia, he was al-Kushshi (or al-Keshshi; also abbreviated as
Kash) (d. 369) who wrote his book "Rijal" in 340 AH. In that book he
mentioned few traditions in which there exists the name of Abdullah Ibn
Saba, from the Imams of Ahlul-Bayt which were quoted below. As we will see,
these traditions give a very different picture than those mentioned by
Sayf. However, it has been proven for Shia scholars that the book of al-Kashshi
has some errors, especially in the names and also few errors in quotations.
His book also contains some weak traditions, and as a result, it is not a
fully reliable source for the Shia. Not to mention that the reports of al-Kushshi
(Kash) are not found in any of the major 4-books of tradition for Shia. (For
a critical evaluation of his errors, please see al-Rijal by al-Tusteri as
well as al-Askari.)
Other Shia scholars who mentioned Abdullah Ibn Saba, have quoted al-Kushshi
or the two historians mentioned above (i.e., al-A'sh'ari al-Qummi and al-
Nawbakhti who did not provide any chain of transmitters or any source for
their report). Among those who quoted al-Kushshi (Kash) are: Shaikh al-Tusi
(d. 460), Ahmad Ibn Tawoos (d. 673), Allama al-Hilli (d. 726), etc.
As for the Sunnis, beside those who quoted from Sayf Ibn Umar whose names
were given earlier, there are few reports from Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani which
provide the very similar information of what al-Kushshi (Kash) provided
(see below).
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