9 replies to this topic

[HadhratKhadija]

US faults China on germ weapons, Iran, North Korea

By Jim Wolf2 hours, 11 minutes ago

The United States fears China may be violating international bans on chemical and biological weapons and is not doing enough to curb the spread of missile technology to states like North Korea and Iran, U.S. officials said on Thursday.

In testimony to the congressionally created U.S.-China Economic and Security Review Commission, a senior official said the Bush administration believed China was violating the 1972 Biological Weapons Convention by keeping a secret supply of biological weapons.

"We also continue to believe that China maintains some elements of an offensive BW capability in violation of its commitments," said Paula DeSutter, an assistant secretary of state responsible for verifying compliance with arms control commitments.

China joined the convention in 1984. In 2002, it said it had never developed, produced or stockpiled biological weapons, or helped other countries acquire or develop them.

DeSutter said China's research "raise the possibility that sophisticated BW and CW work could be underway" there. BW stands for biological and CW for chemical weapons.

The United States also suspects Chinese military involvement in studies on "aerosolization" techniques for possible germ weapons that attack via the respiratory system, she added.

The Chinese embassy in Washington did not respond to a request for comment.

Leonard Spector, a former Energy Department official now with the Monterey Institute's Center for Nonproliferation Studies, said aerosolization -- making particles just fine enough to lodge in the lungs -- was the most difficult challenge in developing biological weapons.

"There's no particular reason for learning this unless you're thinking of doing something with these weapons," said Spector, an arms control expert.

On the spread of missile technology, the United States believes Chinese entities, including state-owned companies, remain key sources for such trade with countries like North Korea and Iran, said Peter Rodman, assistant secretary of defense for international security affairs.

The United States has branded both countries as members of the "axis of evil."

Beijing has repeatedly said it opposed the spread of materials that could be used in weapons of mass destruction and their delivery systems.

"These transfers do considerable harm to international stability," Rodman said.

On June 13, the United States imposed sanctions on four Chinese entities for allegedly helping Iran's missile programs, a charge Beijing denies.

Copyright © 2006 Reuters Limited.

[jund_el_Mahdi]

Hehe   , as if U.S does not have thousands upon thousands of germ and chemical weapons themselves.

[atlantis]

Someone tell me whose chemicals made this Iranian soldier have to live like this today?
http://event.farsnew.../Pic/62/62l.jpg (a bit graphic, viewer discretion is advised)

[MariamCh]

Is this another excuse for war?

WMD for Iraq
Nuclear weapons for Iran
Hezballah 4 Lebanon
And now this 4 china

[Spriglief]

Atlantis, the picture you posted was a blister agent, most likely mustard gas.  The United States uses a much more effective chemical weapon called nerve agent.  To answer your question, Iraq produced their own chemical agents, buying the component parts mostly from Germany, still a great exporter of chemicals just like they were in 1914.  Eventually Iraq began using nerve agent, again buying the component material from many sources, mostly from the same companies who make fertilizers and insect sprays.  The delivery systems came from the same countries who sold them their guns and bombs, X Soviet states and Red China Incorporated.

China is the last country on earth that wants to get into a biological war.  They know that their enemy, who ever they are, will not target their people, but their cereal crops.  The resulting social unrest would not be survivable by the current leadership.

China may be working on chemical and biological weapons, but it is surely for defensive and second strike purposes.  This is one jinn that they want to keep in the bottle.

[atlantis]

About 100,000 Iranian soldiers were victims of Iraq's chemical attacks. Many were hit by mustard gas. The official estimate does not include the civilian population contaminated in bordering towns or the children and relatives of veterans, many of whom have developed blood, lung and skin complications, according to the Organization for Veterans. Nerve gas agents killed about 20,000 Iranian soldiers immediately, according to official reports. Of the 80,000 survivors, some 5,000 seek medical treatment regularly and about 1,000 are still hospitalized with severe, chronic conditions. Iraq also targeted Iranian civilians with chemical weapons. Many thousands were killed in attacks on populations in villages and towns, as well as front-line hospitals. Many still suffer from the severe effects.

Despite the removal of Saddam and his regime by Coalition forces, there is deep resentment and anger in Iran that it was Western companies based in West Germany, France, and the U.S. that helped Iraq develop its chemical weapons arsenal in the first place, and that the world did nothing to punish Iraq for its use of chemical weapons throughout the war.

Shortly before war ended in 1988, the Iraqi Kurdish village of Halabja was exposed to multiple chemical agents, killing about 5,000 of the town's 50,000 residents. After the incident, traces of mustard gas and the nerve agents sarin, tabun and VX were discovered. While it appears that Iraqi government forces are to blame, some debate continues over the question of whether Iraq was really the responsible party, and whether this was a deliberate or accidental act.

From: http://en.wikipedia....e_Iran-Iraq_War



The poison gas attack on the Iraqi town of Halabja was the largest-scale chemical weapons attack against a civilian population in modern times. It began early in the evening of March 16, when a group of eight aircraft began dropping chemical bombs, and the chemical bombardment continued all night. The Halabja attack involved multiple chemical agents, including mustard gas, and the nerve agents sarin, tabun and VX. Some sources have also pointed to the blood agent hydrogen cyanide.

"The aftermath was worse. Victims were still being brought in. Some villagers came to our chopper. They had 15 or 16 beautiful children, begging us to take them to hospital. So all the press sat there and we were each handed a child to carry. As we took off, fluid came out of my little girl's mouth and she died in my arms." [narrates Kaveh Golestan, a Pulitzer Prize awardee]

The most authoritative investigation into responsibility for the Halabja massacre, by Dr Jean Pascal Zanders, Project Leader of the Chemical and Biological Warfare Project at the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI) concluded that Iraq was the culprit, and not Iran.

Some debate existed, however, over the question of whether Iraq was really the responsible party. The U.S. State Department, in the immediate aftermath of the incident, instructed its diplomats to say that Iran was partly to blame.

A preliminary Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) study at the time concluded, apparently by determining the chemicals used by looking at images of the victims, that it was in fact Iran that was responsible for the attack, an assessment which was used subsequently by the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) for much of the early 1990's.


Another extensive analysis of the incident is ... by Cambridge political theorist Glen Rangwala. Rangwala describes how the attack followed the occupation of the city by Iranian and pro-Iranian forces, leading to the conclusion that the gassing was an attack on these forces by the Iraqis. Rangwala also cites studies done by non-governmental organizations that concluded different chemicals were used than the ones cited in the DIA study. [the folks over at DIA don't even know what was used, yet they blame Iran!]

Joost Hiltermann, who was the principal researcher for the Human Rights Watch between 1992-1994, conducted a 2 year study, including a field investigation in northern Iraq, capturing Iraqi government documents in the process... According to Hiltermann, the literature on the Iran-Iraq war reflects a number of allegations of CW use by Iran, but these are "marred by a lack of specificity as to time and place, and the failure to provide any sort of evidence". (Potter, p.153) He calls these allegations "mere assertions" and adds: "no persuasive evidence of the claim that Iran was the primary culprit was ever presented".(Potter, p.156)



Neither Saddam Hussein nor Ali Hasan al-Majid (who commanded Iraqi forces in northern Iraq in that period) have been charged by the Iraqi Special Tribunal for crimes against humanity relating to the events at Halabja. The tribunal has made a point of avoiding directly charging President Hussein with the crimes committed at Halabja.


From: http://en.wikipedia....ison_gas_attack

Edited by atlantis, 14 September 2006 - 08:36 PM.

[atlantis]

atlantis, on Sep 14 2006, 09:23 PM, said:

the world did nothing to punish Iraq for its use of chemical weapons throughout the war.


Neither Saddam Hussein nor Ali Hasan al-Majid (who commanded Iraqi forces in northern Iraq in that period) have been charged by the Iraqi Special Tribunal for crimes against humanity relating to the events at Halabja. The tribunal has made a point of avoiding directly charging President Hussein with the crimes committed at Halabja.

Now you might be wondering why? (note Iran-Iraq war lasted till 1988)

"From 1985 to 1990, the United States government approved 771 licenses for the export to Iraq of $1.5 billion worth of biological agents and high-tech equipment with military application. The United States spent virtually an entire decade making sure that Saddam Hussein had almost whatever he wanted.... The administration had never acknowledged that it took course of action nor has it explained why it did so. In reviewing documents and press accounts, and interviewing knowledgeable sources, it becomes clear that [the] United States export-control policy was directed by [the] US foreign policy as formulated by the State Department, and it was [the] US foreign policy to assist the regime of Saddam Hussein."
- Samuel Gejdenson, Democrat representative from Connecticut, chairman of House's subcommittee investigating "United States Exports of Sensitive Technology to Iraq"

You should expect such things from a nation in which the president says:
"I never apologize for the United States of America; I don't care what the facts are"
- George Bush Sr.

Speechless? Noam Chomsky has a good answer for me:
"Those who try to resist the technologically advanced but morally primitive Western societies will pay a bitter price"

Why?
"If you thought the army was here protecting people like yourself, I've some news for you. We are here to defend wealth"
- Billy Bragg

How so?
"I spent 33 years in the Marines[, most] of my time being a high-class muscle for Big business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer for capitalism.
- I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-1912
- I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914
- I brought light to Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916
- I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenue in.
- I helped in the rape of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street."
- Smedley D.Butler (1881-1940) Major Gen US Marines



That is long ago you say?
Take this:
"The hidden hand of the market will never work without a hidden fist - McDonald's cannot flourish without McDonnel Douglas, the builder of the F-15. And the hidden fist that keeps the world safe for Silicon Valley's technology is called the US Army, Air Force, Navy and Marine Corps."
- Thomas Friedman, former US ambassador to Saudi Arabia
you can find his full speech on a video in MITWorld.
He also added, and I paraphrase;
In 1992, before the Republican party's convention in Texas, the envoys of General Dynamics, the manufacturer of F-16, came to the White House. The envoy told the president that if he didn't approve the sale of the F-16s to Taiwan, they would close the company, put 22000 employees out of work, and announce that President Bush has caused it. As a result, the sale of the F-16s was approved. Later, a similar problem happens to the manufacturer of F-15, based in St.Louis Missouri, and the White House approves the sale of F-15s to Saudi Arabia, to prevent the line from closing. "This is how decisions are made in the real world, and it is not pretty"

Let me remind you that Friedman was the US ambassador to Saudi Arabia.


I should log out before my blood literally starts boiling.

Edited by atlantis, 14 September 2006 - 09:12 PM.

[133ali]

atlantis, on Sep 14 2006, 09:09 PM, said:

Now you might be wondering why? (note Iran-Iraq war lasted till 1988)

"From 1985 to 1990, the United States government approved 771 licenses for the export to Iraq of $1.5 billion worth of biological agents and high-tech equipment with military application. The United States spent virtually an entire decade making sure that Saddam Hussein had almost whatever he wanted.... The administration had never acknowledged that it took course of action nor has it explained why it did so. In reviewing documents and press accounts, and interviewing knowledgeable sources, it becomes clear that [the] United States export-control policy was directed by [the] US foreign policy as formulated by the State Department, and it was [the] US foreign policy to assist the regime of Saddam Hussein."
- Samuel Gejdenson, Democrat representative from Connecticut, chairman of House's subcommittee investigating "United States Exports of Sensitive Technology to Iraq"

You should expect such things from a nation in which the president says:
"I never apologize for the United States of America; I don't care what the facts are"
- George Bush Sr.

Speechless? Noam Chomsky has a good answer for me:
"Those who try to resist the technologically advanced but morally primitive Western societies will pay a bitter price"

Why?
"If you thought the army was here protecting people like yourself, I've some news for you. We are here to defend wealth"
- Billy Bragg

How so?
"I spent 33 years in the Marines[, most] of my time being a high-class muscle for Big business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer for capitalism.
- I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-1912
- I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914
- I brought light to Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916
- I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenue in.
- I helped in the rape of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street."
- Smedley D.Butler (1881-1940) Major Gen US Marines
That is long ago you say?
Take this:
"The hidden hand of the market will never work without a hidden fist - McDonald's cannot flourish without McDonnel Douglas, the builder of the F-15. And the hidden fist that keeps the world safe for Silicon Valley's technology is called the US Army, Air Force, Navy and Marine Corps."
- Thomas Friedman, former US ambassador to Saudi Arabia
you can find his full speech on a video in MITWorld.
He also added, and I paraphrase;
In 1992, before the Republican party's convention in Texas, the envoys of General Dynamics, the manufacturer of F-16, came to the White House. The envoy told the president that if he didn't approve the sale of the F-16s to Taiwan, they would close the company, put 22000 employees out of work, and announce that President Bush has caused it. As a result, the sale of the F-16s was approved. Later, a similar problem happens to the manufacturer of F-15, based in St.Louis Missouri, and the White House approves the sale of F-15s to Saudi Arabia, to prevent the line from closing. "This is how decisions are made in the real world, and it is not pretty"

Let me remind you that Friedman was the US ambassador to Saudi Arabia.
I should log out before my blood literally starts boiling.

Quite informative!!!

Thanks

ali

[mohdali316]

Spriglief, on Sep 15 2006, 04:25 AM, said:

Atlantis, the picture you posted was a blister agent, most likely mustard gas.  The United States uses a much more effective chemical weapon called nerve agent.  To answer your question, Iraq produced their own chemical agents, buying the component parts mostly from Germany, still a great exporter of chemicals just like they were in 1914.  Eventually Iraq began using nerve agent, again buying the component material from many sources, mostly from the same companies who make fertilizers and insect sprays.  The delivery systems came from the same countries who sold them their guns and bombs, X Soviet states and Red China Incorporated.

China is the last country on earth that wants to get into a biological war.  They know that their enemy, who ever they are, will not target their people, but their cereal crops.  The resulting social unrest would not be survivable by the current leadership.

China may be working on chemical and biological weapons, but it is surely for defensive and second strike purposes.  This is one jinn that they want to keep in the bottle.

Some 5 months back i posted an extensive report on the Iraq Iran war and Reagen administrations part in it. The report prooved that there was sales of chemicals on part of the reagen administration to Sadaam tht were used in the manufacture of such weapons.

[HadhratKhadija]

China rips U.S. claims on weapons sales 34 minutes ago


China on Friday denounced accusations by top U.S. officials that it was selling weapons to Iran and North Korea. Foreign Ministry spokesman Qin Gang called the criticism "groundless and irresponsible," the official Xinhua News Agency said. No other details were given.

Peter Rodman, assistant secretary of defense for international security, on Thursday urged China to re-evaluate its relationship with allies Iran and North Korea, two countries with which the United States is locked in tense nuclear standoffs.

He said Washington sees in China "a general willingness to transfer a wide variety of technologies to customers around the world."

The U.S. worries that Chinese companies have helped Iran as it tries to establish a self-sufficient ballistic missile production program, Rodman said.

Beijing has said it opposes the spread of weapons technology and materials, and it forbids Chinese companies from transferring such material.




Copyright © 2006 The Associated Press.