25 replies to this topic

[TooDeep]

,

What is hijab meant for exactly?

I am asking because there are some of you who insist on wearing hijab when the Quran or the Athan is being recited.

If this is the case, then doesn't that mean that you wearing hijab is much more than covering in front of men (and everything else that may fall under "because men.."?

For those of you who hold the justification of hijab as an obligation, you all point to a verse in the Quran that directs covering your bosoms. This verse is intended on covering yourself in front of men who you can marry... there is nothign directing you to cover yourself becuase of the Quran being recited, etc.

So doesn't that mean that hijab is more than covering yourself in front of men, and now it must mean covering yourself in front of God and religion?

I am asking, becuase I had this discussion on this site before, and there were some of you going on about how covering your hair when the Quran is being recited is about showing "Respect" to God. Another attribute of "hijab" that is never given in the Quran.

I hate to sound intolerant but I find such an action foolish because it is as if poeple are just adding more and more to the concept of Hijab and when you are suppose to wear it, without any back up from the Quran.

Same thing about going to the Masjid. I recall hearing someone say that they don't care if a person wears it or not, but they should at least have respect to wear it to the Masjid. But in the Masjid there is very limited contact between men and women in the first place.

I mean just try it, if you are seperated from the men by a barrier, where no man can see you... take off your hijab during Jummah and see how other women may react and even more how you, yourself may feel. Remove your jilbab and sport something nicer. I am talking about durring Jummah.... not during a party at the Masjid (such as at Eid, etc). Uncover yourself and see.

Of course I find the covering of your hair during the recitation of the Quran as cultural, but why would such a cultural act even start to show "respect" (as some say) to God?

The hijab now is something that goes beyond avoiding the wrong attention from men, but now it is something that directly plays in the relationship between women and God.

salaam

[TooDeep]

Smiley,

smiley, on Jun 29 2006, 02:25 PM, said:

I think it has to do with the same reason Christians wear their "Sunday best" to worship services. Its just respectful to be fully dressed when listening to Quran. I don't think its wajib, but I may be mistaken.

But if you lived in a town where men did not live, I doubt that you would be wearing a hijab in that town (and forget the what ifs). So fully dressed is only something that depends on the circumstances.

salaam

[meem_ali]

**Just as one's head must be covered properly when praying namaz and reading the Quran, i.e. no hair showing whatsoever, some like to leave a fringe or sumat out at the front but this is not permissible, when The Word of God is being recited, whether in adhaan or Tilawat e Quran one should also cover the head as a sign of respect..One who wears a hijaab knows fully well why she is doing it, if she does not then she has not quite understood its purpose and benefit..**

Edited by meem_ali, 29 June 2006 - 01:35 PM.

[TooDeep]

Meem_Ali,

meem_ali, on Jun 29 2006, 02:33 PM, said:

**Just as one's head must be covered properly when praying namaz and reading the Quran, i.e. no hair showing whatsoever, some like to leave a fringe or sumat out at the front but this is not permissible, when The Word of God is being recited, whther in adhaan or Tilawat e Quran one should also cover the head as a sign of respect..One who wears a hijaab knows fully well why she is doing it, if she does not then she has not quite understood its purpse and benefit..**

So covering the hair, to you, is not just about covering in front of men?

The verses that people get the idea to cover themselves in the Quran mentions nothing about covering yourself when the Quran is being recited. Nothing.

I would like to know where you get the belief that women must cover themselves while reading the Quran... do you have a Quran verse that commands this or even a hadith?

Also I would like to know where you get the belief that such an act is a sign of respect. Does the Quran say this or a hadith?


I would like to know if your Muslim beliefs command this, or are these only cultural ones that have been mixed with Islam.


Edit:

Going even further with this belief that covering the hair is a sign of respect to God, then why not show respect 24/7 by covering the hair at all times?

salaam

Edited by TooDeep, 29 June 2006 - 01:43 PM.

[Muslimah_IBe]

For those who rely on the discussions and answers gievn trhough the ahlul bayt 'alim network, the following answer is given:
****************
Assalamu 'Alaykum
The following question was answered by Shaykh Mustafa Jaffer

Salaams & Duas
Ummulbanin Merali - Moderator - 'Aalim Networkk
****************************************************************************
********
QUESTION:

Since I was a child I have been taught that I should observe some
form of hijab when reciting qur'an. However, there are many surahs
and du'aas that I recite whilst falling asleep, it is illogical to
wear hijab in bed, what is the solution in this case?


ANSWER:

Hijab is not Wajib for the recitation of the Holy Quran. The covering of
the head during recitation is a cultural expression of respect for the Holy
Book.

Wa Minallaahit Tawfiq

Mustafa Jaffer
http://al-islam.org/...k/msg00479.html
*************************************

[ahmed nasery]

^^^thank u I was looking for such answer ,since I havn`t heard that woman must (obligation) wijib to observe hijab while reciting quran ,but for prayers its wajib according to fatwa sayed sistani

Covering the body in prayers

796. While offering prayers, a man should cover his private parts even if no one is looking at him, and preference is that he should also cover his body from the navel up to the knee.

797. A woman should cover her entire body while offering prayers, including her head and hair. As a recommended precaution, she should also cover the soles of her feet. It is not necessary for her to cover that part of her face which is washed while performing Wudhu, or the hands up to the wrists, or the upper feet up to the ankles. Nevertheless, in order to ensure that she has covered the obligatory parts of her body adequately, she should also cover a part of the sides of her face as well as lower part of her wrists and the ankles.

personally i can`t oppose sayed sistani &confront him &ask why Allah swt want me to pray with my clothes on ,while quran says

Al-A'raf [7:26]
يَا بَنِي آدَمَ قَدْ أَنزَلْنَا عَلَيْكُمْ لِبَاسًا يُوَارِي سَوْءَاتِكُمْ وَرِيشًا وَلِبَاسُ التَّقْوَىَ ذَلِكَ خَيْرٌ ذَلِكَ مِنْ آيَاتِ اللّهِ لَعَلَّهُمْ يَذَّكَّرُونَ

7:26 O ye Children of Adam! We have bestowed raiment upon you to cover your shame, as well as to be an adornment to you. But the raiment of righteousness,- that is the best. Such are among the Signs of Allah, that they may receive admonition!

Also says

Al-A'raf [7:31]
يَا بَنِي آدَمَ خُذُواْ زِينَتَكُمْ عِندَ كُلِّ مَسْجِدٍ وكُلُواْ وَاشْرَبُواْ وَلاَ تُسْرِفُواْ إِنَّهُ لاَ يُحِبُّ الْمُسْرِفِينَ

7:31 O Children of Adam! wear your beautiful apparel at every time and place of prayer: eat and drink: But waste not by excess, for Allah loveth not the wasters

so above verse order us to wear best clothes at every time of prayer

those great scholar have found out their fatwas through quran &traditions &past hsitory of islam which is difficult for us to find out easily &whenever u go deep ,my sister tooDeep, the things will be more clear for u .

[theycallheramber]

Salaam!

Thank you for bringing this topic up, Its something i think about all the time lol.

I went to a nikkah a long while ago - and there was all singing and dancing, and then they started reading a duaa and everyone put their teeny dupatas on their heads - it was quite amusing. Oh the damage that occurs when culture clashes with religion.

Anywho, i guess what im talking about is a bit different, but mashAllah, above are some really good answers too.

Its not just about men men men though - why is it that people think that? its about modesty - living your life modestly. you respect your body by covering it. you respect the holy quran by covering yourself in front of it. you pay respect as you pray, with full hijab on. etc etc.

[Rawshni]

Allah had something else in mind, but at this site it seems hejaab was ordained so folks could create topics about it

[Path2Felicity]

Rawshni, on Jun 29 2006, 04:35 PM, said:

Allah had something else in mind, but at this site it seems hejaab was ordained so folks could create topics about it

[meem_ali]

TooDeep, on Jun 29 2006, 07:40 PM, said:

Meem_Ali,
So covering the hair, to you, is not just about covering in front of men?

The verses that people get the idea to cover themselves in the Quran mentions nothing about covering yourself when the Quran is being recited. Nothing.

I would like to know where you get the belief that women must cover themselves while reading the Quran... do you have a Quran verse that commands this or even a hadith?

Also I would like to know where you get the belief that such an act is a sign of respect. Does the Quran say this or a hadith?
I would like to know if your Muslim beliefs command this, or are these only cultural ones that have been mixed with Islam.
Edit:

Going even further with this belief that covering the hair is a sign of respect to God, then why not show respect 24/7 by covering the hair at all times?

salaam

*wa alaikum salaam wr wb, okies woah..temper temper, well dear sister, inshAllah the Holy Book is Most Accurate and The Seal of all Holy Scriptures, knowing that covering one's head when one is in the presence of Tilawat e Quran being recited or Adhaan being given is common sense really, some are not so gifted so it may not be as apparent to them. Alot of things that are common to people and society today are not mentioned in the Quran, yet common sense and Deeni knowledge tells u what is right and what is not. Culture aside, this practice is very much islamic. Alhamdulillah one tries to maintain and develop respect for Allah SWT at all times and inshAllah may this attempt be strengthened further...sis if u have difficulty in following such practices then don't, make it a personal preference and not a recommendation why don't you**

Rawshni, on Jun 29 2006, 09:35 PM, said:

Allah had something else in mind, but at this site it seems hejaab was ordained so folks could create topics about it

**exactly sis Rawshni, and not just any topic, those full of negativity**

Edited by meem_ali, 29 June 2006 - 03:59 PM.

[TooDeep]

Meem_Ali,

[quote name='meem_ali' post='1154767' date='Jun 29 2006, 04:56 PM']*wa alaikum salaam wr wb, okies woah..temper temper, well dear sister,[/quote]


No one has a temper. Seriously. I am only asking you to produce the evidence that makes such an action an obligation.


[quote]inshAllah the Holy Book is Most Accurate and The Seal of all Holy Scriptures, knowing that covering one's head when one is in the presence of Tilawat e Quran being recited or Adhaan being given is common sense really, some are not so gifted so it may not be as apparent to them.[/quote]


Common sense? If this is the case then why don't African Muslims do this? Are you saying that the millions among them have no common sense when it comes to this?

I would like to know where is the evidence from the Quran and even from the book of hadiths, that mandates such a practice. You are saying that this is an obligation... You cannot call something an obligation unless you have the EVIDENCE to back it up... but yet, you have none... just "common sense". What makes you think that this practice is just "common sense"? I see that a cultural practice, which I shall call until you present your evidnce, has blended well into your Islamic beliefs. Such a mixture is dangerous.

Where is the evidence that when the Quran or Adhan is being recited, one must cover their heads? Where is the evidence that this is an obligation? Just becuase you see poeple do this, and becuase you may feel it best suits you and others, it does not make it an obligation.



[quote]Alot of things that are common to people and society today are not mentioned in the Quran, yet common sense and Deeni knowledge tells u what is right and what is not.[/quote]


Again you are mixing culture and religion together. Yes something may be common to people and to their society, but it in no way means that it is a religious obligation.

What exactly tells you that such an action is an obligation? This is all that I am asking you. Your innate feeling? Or solid evdience from the Quran? Do you even have a hadith to back up what you are saying?

There are alot of things that are normal to people, there are alot of things that people feel is "common sense" to be right.... such as eating pork... but yet it is WRONG.

Please go around the world and who see who practices such an action.... South Asians and I've seen few Arabs. African Americans, Africans, and Sunni Muslims do not practice this... none of these poeple have common sense?


[quote]Culture aside, this practice is very much islamic.[/quote]


It seems to only be "islamic" because you are calling it. Not because the Quran or a hadith has told you so. To alot of people denying women education "Islamic" aswell.


[quote]Alhamdulillah one tries to maintain and develop respect for Allah SWT at all times and inshAllah may this attempt be strengthened further...[/quote]


Respect is not universal.... signs of respect mean different things across the world.

[quote]sis if u have difficulty in following such practices then don't, make it a personal preference and not a recommendation why don't you**

I don't have a difficulty practicing this... I'm sure that it's quite simple. I am only asking where people get the idea from doing this.

There are people who say it's an obligation... there reasons are because it's "common sense". And there are those don't believe it's an obligation because there is no evidence that even suggest that.

salaam

[Muslimah_IBe]

smiley, on Jun 30 2006, 07:00 AM, said:

It isnt' an obligation. It is cultural, as a gesture of respect. Absolutely nothing wrong with it, but those who follow this tradition have no Islamic right to criticize those who don't. Likewise, those who do not follow this tradition have no right to criticize those who do.

[Rawshni]

smiley, on Jun 29 2006, 07:17 PM, said:

would you prefer another topic about mutah?

No. For THAT too Allah had another purpose, but folks at this site, being who and what they are, in their wisdom, have decided its been allowed for the sole purpose of creating topics at this site

Edited by Rawshni, 30 June 2006 - 09:34 AM.

[karateka]

IMO...To focus on beautifying our inner self ...and be able to balance and try to let go of the transient beauty of the outer...

[ahmed nasery]

salam alaikom TooDeep / don`t stick to something ,isn`t the verse I qouted is enough evidance for u to observe hijab during prayer,when u read quran or start to recite athan isn`t that consider kind of prayers or its just reading an ordinary book.

7:31 O Children of Adam! wear your beautiful apparel at every time and place of prayer: eat and drink: But waste not by excess, for Allah loveth not the wasters.

observe ur hijab when u read quran so Allah swt observe a veil between u&non believers as this verse explain

17:45 When thou dost recite the Qur'an, We put, between thee and those who believe not in the Hereafter, a veil invisible:

Edited by ahmed nasery, 30 June 2006 - 10:46 AM.

[TooDeep]

Ahmed Nasery,

ahmed nasery, on Jun 30 2006, 11:45 AM, said:

salam alaikom TooDeep / don`t stick to something ,

There is nothing like one who preaches while mocking others.

Quote

7:31 O Children of Adam! wear your beautiful apparel at every time and place of prayer: eat and drink: But waste not by excess, for Allah loveth not the wasters.

Excuse me but this verse says nothing about Hijab or Khimar. Along with that it is talking about the masjid. All that it says is beautiful apparel... it does not tell you what articles of clothing.

Quote

17:45 When thou dost recite the Qur'an, We put, between thee and those who believe not in the Hereafter, a veil invisible:

The verse is talking about an invisible hijab... And it is Allah who puts the veil between those who believe and believe not. Not a woman or a man. But if you insist on arguing, what about men? This verse is not specific to women.... It is clearly talking about who so ever is reading the Quran.... Are you, a man, wearing a hijab aswell when you read the Quran?

Also the word "hijab" is not even being used in the since that we talk about hijab. Not at all what-so-ever.

Also the verse is not even talking about a wearing a veil... there is only a veil between the believers and non-believers.

COnclusion:
1.) The first verse does not tell you what specific articles of clothing to wear, it does not state hijab, or khimar... it only talks about beautiful apparel.
2.) The second verse, Allah is the one who puts the hijab between the believers and non. Hijab is not used in the context that we use it.

salaam

[ahmed nasery]

salam alaikom TooDeep ,

I never mock &iam not scholar to preach ,sorry if offend u though

U can`t interpret verses of the quran since u r not quilified ,but let us disscus some words.

what does masjid mean in arabic? if u mean mosque u r wrong my dearest sister

please at least go read what interpreters says 7don`t interpret quran by urself

Edited by ahmed nasery, 30 June 2006 - 01:00 PM.

[Path2Felicity]

Sis TooDeep-

Some women may wear hijab while reading Quran because they believe they are in their purest state while in hijab. When we pray, we are required to be in hijab, so some may feel that when they are directly "talking" to God, that it is best to be covered up, just like in prayer.

Wasalaam

[Muslimah_IBe]

Sis TooDeep,

Maybe you can get more inofrmation on why some practice this by reading the thread: http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?sh...c=68101&hl=

The only place I can remember it being discussed in Quran what can be done during recitation of the Quran is:
(al-Araf 7:204)
YUSUFALI: When the Qur'an is read, listen to it with attention, and hold your peace: that ye may receive Mercy.
PICKTHAL: And when the Qur'an is recited, give ear to it and pay heed, that ye may obtain mercy.
SHAKIR: And when the Quran is recited, then listen to it and remain silent, that mercy may be shown to you.

Many scholars (if one trusts their rulings) seem to believe it is not wajib to do this when just hearing quran or adhan (excluding actual salat), but no problems if one so chooses to do so. Allahu alim.

[meem_ali]

**salaam sister too deep {in ref to the last post u directed toward me}, i did not once use the term "obligation", u seem to have OVER-EMPHASIZED it...i said it was a recommendation, not an obligation as u have mistaken..however certainly not something which should be acted upon using one's personal judgment over the issue. Culture or not, regardless of whether practiced in Africa, i am concerned with what i practice and whether this fits the criteria, if peeps in Africa do not does that mean that they are correct, or even incorrect in doing so?...i have been brought up this way to respect this as an association with deen and so will uphold it...ask urself this?..i have not called this an islamic obligation and do not wish to impose it on any other, i make an effort to practice it without intervening with shariat, so is it so wrong to do this?...not at all...do as u wish sister, whatever makes u happy i suppose...wasalaam**

Edited by meem_ali, 30 June 2006 - 05:13 PM.

[AnotherUmmAli]

As salaamu alaykum,

Sis. TooDeep I happen to believe that the sexual aspect of hijab is WAY overemphasized and that covering the head (of both men and women) has a spiritual value that is underemphasized. We know that covering the head was the sunnah of the Prophets and Imams of ahl al bayt and that it is emphasized throughout Christian history for men and women, practicing Jewish men and women cover their heads and even in some far eastern religions headcoverings are recommended.

Obviously, covering the head during the reading of qur'an (and during other religious rituals) is not an obligation. But I'm not sure who you are arguing with, because no one is arguing that it's wajib.

Path2Felicity, on Jun 30 2006, 12:58 PM, said:

Sis TooDeep-

Some women may wear hijab while reading Quran because they believe they are in their purest state while in hijab. When we pray, we are required to be in hijab, so some may feel that when they are directly "talking" to God, that it is best to be covered up, just like in prayer.

Wasalaam

This reminds me. I remember once hearing a hadith where An Nabi Muhammad (saawas) asks khadija to cover her head because jibrail is in the room (or coming?). I wonder if it has something to do with being in the presence of certain kinds of angels? I've always meant to research that further. Like I said, I think the aspect of hijab being about sexual modesty is only part of the issue and that there are other things that are underexplored/discussed.

[Asif_Ali]

AnotherUmmAli, on Jul 1 2006, 12:37 AM, said:

As salaamu alaykum,

Sis. TooDeep I happen to believe that the sexual aspect of hijab is WAY overemphasized and that covering the head (of both men and women) has a spiritual value that is underemphasized. We know that covering the head was the sunnah of the Prophets and Imams of ahl al bayt and that it is emphasized throughout Christian history for men and women, practicing Jewish men and women cover their heads and even in some far eastern religions headcoverings are recommended.

Obviously, covering the head during the reading of qur'an (and during other religious rituals) is not an obligation. But I'm not sure who you are arguing with, because no one is arguing that it's wajib.
This reminds me. I remember once hearing a hadith where An Nabi Muhammad (saawas) asks khadija to cover her head because jibrail is in the room (or coming?). I wonder if it has something to do with being in the presence of certain kinds of angels? I've always meant to research that further. Like I said, I think the aspect of hijab being about sexual modesty is only part of the issue and that there are other things that are underexplored/discussed.

You make a good point, there are many aspects to the covering apart from the sexual one. In relation to covering while reciting Quran or the like, it would seem to be a matter of respect. many men, for example, will wear a hat during prayer as a mark of respect. at the same time i'm sure one would feel disrespectful sitting in entirely inappropriate clothing and reading Quran, regardless of whether people can see them or not.

[~RuQaYaH~]

AnotherUmmAli, on Jul 1 2006, 09:37 AM, said:

As salaamu alaykum,

Sis. TooDeep I happen to believe that the sexual aspect of hijab is WAY overemphasized and that covering the head (of both men and women) has a spiritual value that is underemphasized. We know that covering the head was the sunnah of the Prophets and Imams of ahl al bayt and that it is emphasized throughout Christian history for men and women, practicing Jewish men and women cover their heads and even in some far eastern religions headcoverings are recommended.

Obviously, covering the head during the reading of qur'an (and during other religious rituals) is not an obligation. But I'm not sure who you are arguing with, because no one is arguing that it's wajib.
This reminds me. I remember once hearing a hadith where An Nabi Muhammad (saawas) asks khadija to cover her head because jibrail is in the room (or coming?). I wonder if it has something to do with being in the presence of certain kinds of angels? I've always meant to research that further. Like I said, I think the aspect of hijab being about sexual modesty is only part of the issue and that there are other things that are underexplored/discussed.

I completely agree. I've always thought that a huge benefit of hijab is also that it helps us to purify our inner selves. Reason being that when we're in hijab, we are representing Allah's religion and we feel obligated to have the best manners/be very careful about the way we act (particularly in the West considering today's situation). This helps us to build and strengthen our inner hijab and has such a profuse impact that we tend to try to act in this way at all times, even when not in the presence of people.

I also agree with sis path who said that some women may wear hijab while reciting quran because they believe that they are in their purest state while wearing hijab.

wasalaam

[Muslimah_IBe]

AnotherUmmAli, on Jun 30 2006, 07:37 PM, said:

As salaamu alaykum,

Sis. TooDeep I happen to believe that the sexual aspect of hijab is WAY overemphasized and that covering the head (of both men and women) has a spiritual value that is underemphasized.
....
Like I said, I think the aspect of hijab being about sexual modesty is only part of the issue and that there are other things that are underexplored/discussed.

I agree sis; and I believe this goes for most of the acts of submission/ibadah/worship. Sometimes we stop short at the technicalities, without realizing the spiritual value and spiritual conditioning within that prescribed/recommended act.

P.S. Sorry to have gone off-topic, just felt inclined to agree.

Edited by Muslimah_IBe, 30 June 2006 - 11:51 PM.

[Sehnsucht]

Salaam Aleikum.

A spectacular excerpt from one of the best hijaab debates I've ever seen...



“If a girls gets raped or sexually abused because of her attractive exposed body or some guy gets some bad habit in frustration after seeing a beautiful or so called ‘ sexy’ girl, longing to get that vulnerable body anyway, whom will you blame? I’d say that both are responsible.”

“You’re over-suspicious.” Sania exclaimed with disinterest.

“Sorry?”

“I think only those women and men insist upon ‘Hijaab’ who are not sure of themselves and who don’t trust themselves. Actually such people are ‘suspicious’ and ‘Shakki’.”

“I see.“ Hijaab nodded thoughtfully. “Sister Sania Rubab, do you pray?” Hijaab’s question was sudden and very unexpected.

“Listen.” Her chin quivered slightly.

“Please,” Hijaab insisted. “Just answer this question.”

“Yes, I do, sometimes.” She swallowed with difficulty.

“Can you offer prayers without covering your head, hair and body?”

“Of course not.”

“Then why has Allah made it obligatory for women that she should wear Hijaab while praying even if she is alone, with no men around?”

Hijaab asked and smiled at the irony of the situation.

“Tell me, why does Allah… Allah; the most closest to us... want us to be fully covered when we offer prayers?”

“I…I don’t know.” Sania stammered, unable to gather her nerves and words. “But don’t think I’m a pessimist about Hijaab” Sania muttered under her tongue. “But I do complain about the way you fanatics use it.”

“A pessimist is someone who complains about the noise when the optimist knocks.” Hijaab said to her.

Smiling, she then turned toward audience and said,

“Ladies and gentlemen, according to Miss. Sania’s philosophy, Allah, our GOD, wants us to cover our hair and bodies while offering prayers because He’s is ‘suspicious’ about us and is not sure of Himself.”

A chuckle of amusement came from the public.

“My dear sister,” Hijaab addressed Sania. ”Allah wants woman to wear Hijaab while she prays simply because Allah likes to see her in her best and complete form when she comes in front of Him in prayers, as she is incomplete without her Hijaab and covering.”

As she remarked, the chorus of applause was louder than before.



The Complete Debate

Khuda Hafiz

Edited by LightTheWay786, 07 July 2006 - 10:28 AM.