115 replies to this topic

[eThErEaL]

Salaam.

Its a pleasure to hear from you.

skinee, on 26 November 2010 - 03:31 PM, said:

Just few comments Ethreal. There is no correlation between New Age spirituality and Ayatullah Khomenie... just because Ayatullah Khomenie popularized Irfan doesn't mean he's to blame for those that are diverting... there can be infinite number of factors for this... new age spirituality has become popular all over the world in every country, and that has nothing to do with the Ayatullah. Furthermore there are no concrete statistics or studies to validate your claim, just because 40 books got translated doesn't mean anything. A very good reason for this diversion is the secretive and exclusiveness of Shia Irfan, plus the stringent requirement, when everything is hidden and it's near impossible to access someone... in such a scenario people turn to others for their spiritual needs.

There is no direct correlation of course.  And I understand that New Age spirituality will inevitably poison the minds of majority of people regardless of where one is living.  We are living in the end of times after all.  But If Khomeini has indeed completed the fourth journey (something which was always thought to be reserved for the 12th Imam), then such deceptions would not be popular if not exist.  So far two scholars after having just come form Iran said that New Age spirituality is popular among the youth.   One of them said that the reason for this is because they don't value Islam (forget about Irfan even) anymore because of the corrupt ulema.  Now even though theoretical Irfan was made relatively popular ever since the rise of materialism it is nevertheless true that theoretical Irfan is relatively inaccessible since not all people have the same spiritual bent--not everyone is a philosopher, or a metaphysician.  Traditionally people who were not of such a spiritual bent were not left vulnerable to such satanic deceptions precisely because the true spiritual ambiance of religion dominated and was therefore immune from such evils  (which is why such possibilities of evil didn't even exist before).                      

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Going with Perennial philosophy, Aytually Khomenie was an Arif of the highest calibre as well as being a regular human being who made mistakes, just like Jesus was crucified and also not crucified,  In such case then Ayatullah Khomenie's actions were completely valid and true (relatively) For those that support him and view him as an Arif, then they are definitely on the right path as their dogma supports their views correct?

Elsewhere it was also mentioned that a relative truth is not necessarily salvific--or conducive for spiritual growth.  God's wrath is relatively true but this does not entail that it is good for man's spirit to be subject to it after death.  It so happens that since the crucifixion is divinely revealed dogma it is a relative truth which saves.  What I am arguing for is that Khomeini's dogma has nothing to do with anything traditional or sacred but is rather a contortion of it.          

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The reality is that for anyone who is seeking the Truth none of this really matters. I think most of these arguments are defending our ego and how much our identity has been invested in figures like the Ayatullah and SHN... so that when anyone says anything remotely negative about them, our false self feels diminished and thus must restore itself by finding ways to prove itself right.

It could very well be for defending our ego.  For which I pray to God to forgive us and to guide us toward Himself.  The prayer I made before is of significance, for no one can be so sure of being free from God's deception.  We can only but pray.

Peace Brother
Ethereal

Edited by eThErEaL, 26 November 2010 - 05:23 PM.

[skinee]

eThErEaL, on 26 November 2010 - 04:49 PM, said:

There is no direct correlation of course.  And I understand that New Age spirituality will inevitably poison the minds of majority of people regardless of where one is living.  We are living in the end of times after all.  But If Khomeini has indeed completed the fourth journey (something which was always thought to be reserved for the 12th Imam), then such deceptions would not be popular if not exist.  So far two scholars after having just come form Iran said that New Age spirituality is popular among the youth.   One of them said that the reason for this is because they don't value Islam (forget about Irfan even) anymore because of the corrupt ulema.  Now even though theoretical Irfan was made relatively popular ever since the rise of materialism it is nevertheless true that theoretical Irfan is relatively inaccessible since not all people have the same spiritual bent--not everyone is a philosopher, or a metaphysician.  Traditionally people who were not of such a spiritual bent were not left vulnerable to such satanic deceptions precisely because the true spiritual ambiance of religion dominated and was therefore immune from such evils  (which is why such possibilities of evil didn't even exist before).    

  


Bro, what is this IF khomenie did or didn't complete the 4th journey? Khomenie never claimed to have done this, and it's not his fault that his followers are attributing this to him. It is common for people to create myths and legends around leaders. And let's say he did complete the 4th journey, than this it's God's will how things are turning out right? Now whether overthrowing the Shah was islamically correct or not, that's a different argument that I'm not qualified to get into. The corruption of the Ulema, again you can't blame the Ayatullah for this, corruption has always existed and will continue to exist. Corruption in the world has increased everywhere in every sector, this is humanity's problem.

Bro, you have a theory, and that's all it is, just a theory... it's a nice a hypothesis, but we can't use this to say IF Khomenie had not done this, this is how things would be... there are so many what if scenarios that the possibilities are endless. I don't really think it's beneficial to discuss what if scenarios.

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Elsewhere it was also mentioned that a relative truth is not necessarily salvific--or conducive for spiritual growth.  God's wrath is relatively true but this does not entail that it is good for man's spirit to be subject to it after death.  It so happens that since the crucifixion is divinely revealed dogma it is a relative truth which saves.  What I am arguing for is that Khomeini's dogma has nothing to do with anything traditional or sacred but is rather a contortion of it.

I was just joking bro, I got the point earlier on

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It could very well be for defending our ego.  For which I pray to God to forgive us and to guide us toward Himself.  The prayer I made before is of significance, for no one can be so sure of being free from God's deception.  We can only but pray.

We wouldn't be on shiachat if not for our egos. God's deception?

Edited by skinee, 27 November 2010 - 02:16 AM.

[eThErEaL]

skinee, on 27 November 2010 - 02:12 AM, said:

[/size]   Bro, what is this IF khomenie did or didn't complete the 4th journey? Khomenie never claimed to have done this, and it's not his fault that his followers are attributing this to him. It is common for people to create myths and legends around leaders. And let's say he did complete the 4th journey, than this it's God's will how things are turning out right? Now whether overthrowing the Shah was islamically correct or not, that's a different argument that I'm not qualified to get into. The corruption of the Ulema, again you can't blame the Ayatullah for this, corruption has always existed and will continue to exist. Corruption in the world has increased everywhere in every sector, this is humanity's problem.

This issue regarding the completion of Khomeini's 4th Journey is not just mentioned by a handful of people.  Many who are familiar with Mulla Sadra will immediately conclude that Khomeini considered himself to have completed the fourth if not the third journey.  Even people who write biographies on Khomeini, like Hamid Dabashi, and Baqer Moin, Venessa Martin, and who are not necessarily philosophers find it necessary to mention this fact.  I do find it interesting that Hamid Algar limits Khomeini's journey to the third journey by speculating that his political leadership was in fact his third journey.  Even though you don't seem to care whether Khomeini completed the fourth journey (unlike Imami_ali), I must say that it suffices that Khomeini claimed for himself absolute authority (traditionally believed to be the 12th imam's exclusive right).  One who does not have such a right should not take it.  For he will just cause more corruption.  There is a reason why I said that the Shah was the lesser of two evils.        

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God's deception?

Quranic word is Makar.  "We seek refuge in His Mercy from His Wrath"--as the Prophet (S) prayed.   We know God is Merciful but we so often forget that God is also Wrathful.  We run towards Him away from Him.

Edited by eThErEaL, 27 November 2010 - 05:31 AM.

[skinee]

eThErEaL, on 27 November 2010 - 05:16 AM, said:

I must say that it suffices that Khomeini claimed for himself absolute authority (traditionally believed to be the 12th imam's exclusive right).  One who does not have such a right should not take it.  

Can you show me where Khomeini made this claim? I never took WF as being absolute authority.




Both the Shah and Khomenie can be said to have their pros and cons... it isn't possible to introduce something good with out backlash. The introduction of Islam is the same, islamic history after the Prophet is good evidence of this.

Considering the increase of Islam in iranian society, while also looking at the negative, I find it difficult to accept the Shah's rule being lesser of 2 evils. You can't just look at one aspect such as Irfan, one has to consider the total impact on society and rest of the world.

[eThErEaL]

skinee, on 27 November 2010 - 05:43 AM, said:

Can you show me where Khomeini made this claim? I never took WF as being absolute authority.

You never took WF mutlaq as being absolute authority?

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Both the Shah and Khomenie can be said to have their pros and cons... it isn't possible to introduce something good with out backlash. The introduction of Islam is the same, islamic history after the Prophet is good evidence of this.Considering the increase of Islam in iranian society, while also looking at the negative, I find it difficult to accept the Shah's rule being lesser of 2 evils. You can't just look at one aspect such as Irfan, one has to consider the total impact on society and rest of the world.

The Shah is the lesser of two evils mainly because he wasn't a dictator in the name of Islam like Khomeini and his successor.  Now we have dictatorship in the name of Islam.  By the way, what type of increase of Islam are you referring to exactly?  are you referring to an increase of fanatics?  like Ahmedinejad?

Edited by eThErEaL, 27 November 2010 - 06:08 AM.

[skinee]

eThErEaL, on 27 November 2010 - 06:06 AM, said:

You never took WF mutlaq as being absolute authority?

I guess I don't know too much about it... will have to do research.

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The Shah is the lesser of two evils mainly because he wasn't a dictator in the name of Islam like Khomeini and his successor.  Now we have dictatorship in the name of Islam.  By the way, what type of increase of Islam are you referring to exactly?  are you referring to an increase of fanatics?  like Ahmedinejad?

Will have to agree to disagree... there are two opposing views, and both sides have strong arguments... the government of Iran has been presented to me very differently... hard for me to decide who's right/wrong.

[Ruh.Mujarad]

Al-salamu alaikum,

I guess brother Ethereal hasn't done any research about the Shah, nor did he do enough research about Wilayat al-Faqih. There are many misrepresentations and misconceptions raised by brother Ethereal regarding Wilayat al-Faqih. Insha'Allah I will touch upon the issue in my next reply. I ask Allah (swt) to grant me time to write on this issue.

Wasalam

[Ruh.Mujarad]

Al-salamu alaikum wa rahmatullah,

The post will be divided into the following sections (although we still didn't complete the previous points, but I feel it is very important to clear the misconceptions raised by brother Ethereal):

1) The historical significance of the theory of Wilayat al-Faqih. Which scholars believed in it, which didn't? Why wasn't the theory researched in depth? Are there any treatise's written on it from our previous scholars?
2) Textual and rational proof in support of the theory.
3) The definition and limits of Wilayat al-Faqih. Is it a democracy, dictatorship, or an independent political system?
4) The definition of "absolute" in the theory of Wilayat al-Faqih. (this will be clarified in point number 3)
5) List of contemporary scholars who support Wilayat al-Faqih and the Islamic government.

Wasalam

Edited by Imami_ali, 28 November 2010 - 11:18 PM.

[The Persian Shah]

heh, what an unfortunate time to leave ShiaChat - when such a nice discussion on a more academic topic with better Islamic Ethics has been going on!

I haven't read everything entirely, and I don't want to interrupt Imami_ali's posts to come, so I will just mention a few things:

1) What do you understand by "The Fourth Journey" Sheikh Ethereal? In other words, please provide a defintion or clarification of your understanding at the least. In my opinnion, as I remember discussing with Imami_ali before, once you understand what the fourth journey actually is, there is no instance in history other than Imam Khomeini [QS] that could have completed it (and the Infallinbles [AS] of course)..

2) What you say regarding the late Imam [QS] is not worthy of even being titled with the word "argument", let alone a valid one, imho..
- Your first point is the apparent raise of New Age spirituality in Iran post-Khomeini [QS].
---- Have you compared this deviant form of spirituality with levels pre-Khomeini [QS]? No.
---- Have you looked into what other factors might have caused this? No.
---- Have you noted the other forms weighted this against the increase in other forms of non-deviant spirituality? No.
---- Have you compared this deviant form of spirituality with levels pre-Khomeini [QS]? No.
---- Were there not an increase in deviant forms of spirituality after the demise of the Prophet [SAWS] too? Can this defect be attributed to the Prophet [SAWS]?

Rather than trying to prove the corruptedness of the `irfan of Imam Khomeini [QS] through such an indirect argument, it would be better for you to use a more direct approach to start with. Even if all the faults are ignored, this argument is still untenable because of the weak inference noted in the last point.

3) Sayyid Muhammad Husayn Tabataba'i was much weakened by illness by the time of the revolution, but was held in universal esteem for his piety and learning. Although he was too physically frail to participate in the activities of the Islamic Revolution, his contribution can be summed up by a statement from Martyr Mutahhari, who said that there was not a single political predicament he faced whose answer could not be found in Tafsir al-Mizan. There are lots of points which explicate Tabataba`i's [QS] views on politics without a shadow of doubt, such as his treatise on governance and the explicit endorsement of wilayat al-faqih.

With Nasr himself, I've never been a fan (never thought I would see the day where I side with mac on a philosophically-related discussion ). The new information about him (to me anyway) is very interesting..

[eThErEaL]

Imami_ali, on 28 November 2010 - 10:49 PM, said:

Al-salamu alaikum wa rahmatullah,

The post will be divided into the following sections (although we still didn't complete the previous points, but I feel it is very important to clear the misconceptions raised by brother Ethereal):

1) The historical significance of the theory of Wilayat al-Faqih. Which scholars believed in it, which didn't? Why wasn't the theory researched in depth? Are there any treatise's written on it from our previous scholars?
2) Textual and rational proof in support of the theory.
3) The definition and limits of Wilayat al-Faqih. Is it a democracy, dictatorship, or an independent political system?
4) The definition of "absolute" in the theory of Wilayat al-Faqih. (this will be clarified in point number 3)
5) List of contemporary scholars who support Wilayat al-Faqih and the Islamic government.

Wasalam

What misconceptions?  I am not calling WF mutlaq as practiced by Khomeini and khaminei a dictatorship because I think they themselves call it a dictatorship.  I am calling it a dictatorship because--- in practice--- it resembles a dictatorship in almost every way.  And I already gave my reasons why.

Edited by eThErEaL, 29 November 2010 - 01:39 AM.

[Ruh.Mujarad]

eThErEaL, on 29 November 2010 - 01:38 AM, said:

What misconceptions? I am not calling WF mutlaq as practiced by Khomeini and khaminei a dictatorship because I think they themselves call it a dictatorship. I am calling it a dictatorship because--- in practice--- it resembles a dictatorship in almost every way. And I already gave my reasons why.

Brother Ethereal, be patient. Throughout the next post your misconceptions will be quoted and answered insha'Allah. Your belief that wilayat al-Faqih (in practice in contemporary Iran) is a dictatorship is one of the many misconceptions that you have raised. Wilayat al-Faqih resembles the theory of freedom and observance of human rights in all its aspects (be it physical or spiritual).

Wasalam

[Ruh.Mujarad]

The Persian Shah, on 29 November 2010 - 12:34 AM, said:

heh, what an unfortunate time to leave ShiaChat - when such a nice discussion on a more academic topic with better Islamic Ethics has been going on!

I haven't read everything entirely, and I don't want to interrupt Imami_ali's posts to come, so I will just mention a few things:

1) What do you understand by "The Fourth Journey" Sheikh Ethereal? In other words, please provide a defintion or clarification of your understanding at the least. In my opinnion, as I remember discussing with Imami_ali before, once you understand what the fourth journey actually is, there is no instance in history other than Imam Khomeini [QS] that could have completed it (and the Infallinbles [AS] of course)..

2) What you say regarding the late Imam [QS] is not worthy of even being titled with the word "argument", let alone a valid one, imho..
- Your first point is the apparent raise of New Age spirituality in Iran post-Khomeini [QS].
---- Have you compared this deviant form of spirituality with levels pre-Khomeini [QS]? No.
---- Have you looked into what other factors might have caused this? No.
---- Have you noted the other forms weighted this against the increase in other forms of non-deviant spirituality? No.
---- Have you compared this deviant form of spirituality with levels pre-Khomeini [QS]? No.
---- Were there not an increase in deviant forms of spirituality after the demise of the Prophet [SAWS] too? Can this defect be attributed to the Prophet [SAWS]?

Rather than trying to prove the corruptedness of the `irfan of Imam Khomeini [QS] through such an indirect argument, it would be better for you to use a more direct approach to start with. Even if all the faults are ignored, this argument is still untenable because of the weak inference noted in the last point.

3) Sayyid Muhammad Husayn Tabataba'i was much weakened by illness by the time of the revolution, but was held in universal esteem for his piety and learning. Although he was too physically frail to participate in the activities of the Islamic Revolution, his contribution can be summed up by a statement from Martyr Mutahhari, who said that there was not a single political predicament he faced whose answer could not be found in Tafsir al-Mizan. There are lots of points which explicate Tabataba`i's [QS] views on politics without a shadow of doubt, such as his treatise on governance and the explicit endorsement of wilayat al-faqih.

With Nasr himself, I've never been a fan (never thought I would see the day where I side with mac on a philosophically-related discussion ). The new information about him (to me anyway) is very interesting..

Al-salamu alaikum dear brother Persian Shah,

Where have you been? You suddenly disappeared off the face of earth. Haven't seen or spoken to you in a while. Insha'Allah everything is going well for you and your family. Insha'Allah we'll speak when you come on the messenger.

Wasalam

[eThErEaL]

The Persian Shah, on 29 November 2010 - 12:34 AM, said:

heh, what an unfortunate time to leave ShiaChat - when such a nice discussion on a more academic topic with better Islamic Ethics has been going on!

I haven't read everything entirely, and I don't want to interrupt Imami_ali's posts to come, so I will just mention a few things:

1) What do you understand by "The Fourth Journey" Sheikh Ethereal? In other words, please provide a defintion or clarification of your understanding at the least. In my opinnion, as I remember discussing with Imami_ali before, once you understand what the fourth journey actually is, there is no instance in history other than Imam Khomeini [QS] that could have completed it (and the Infallinbles [AS] of course)..

2) What you say regarding the late Imam [QS] is not worthy of even being titled with the word "argument", let alone a valid one, imho..
- Your first point is the apparent raise of New Age spirituality in Iran post-Khomeini [QS].
---- Have you compared this deviant form of spirituality with levels pre-Khomeini [QS]? No.
---- Have you looked into what other factors might have caused this? No.
---- Have you noted the other forms weighted this against the increase in other forms of non-deviant spirituality? No.
---- Have you compared this deviant form of spirituality with levels pre-Khomeini [QS]? No.
---- Were there not an increase in deviant forms of spirituality after the demise of the Prophet [SAWS] too? Can this defect be attributed to the Prophet [SAWS]?

Rather than trying to prove the corruptedness of the `irfan of Imam Khomeini [QS] through such an indirect argument, it would be better for you to use a more direct approach to start with. Even if all the faults are ignored, this argument is still untenable because of the weak inference noted in the last point.

3) Sayyid Muhammad Husayn Tabataba'i was much weakened by illness by the time of the revolution, but was held in universal esteem for his piety and learning. Although he was too physically frail to participate in the activities of the Islamic Revolution, his contribution can be summed up by a statement from Martyr Mutahhari, who said that there was not a single political predicament he faced whose answer could not be found in Tafsir al-Mizan. There are lots of points which explicate Tabataba`i's [QS] views on politics without a shadow of doubt, such as his treatise on governance and the explicit endorsement of wilayat al-faqih.

With Nasr himself, I've never been a fan (never thought I would see the day where I side with mac on a philosophically-related discussion ). The new information about him (to me anyway) is very interesting..

Salaam,

I didn't come across your post before.  So , sorry for the delay.

New Age spirituality may not be caused by Khomeini, but he caused it to thrive in Iran amongst the youth today.  Because had it not been for him, the youth would not have been so repulsed by Islam as represented by corrupt ulema.  You cant compare the Prophet (S) with Khomeini.  The Prophet has eliminated corruption, but Khomeini has done the exact opposite.  And even Nasr endorses Wilayatul Faqih as part of the Shia tradition.  But does Tabatabai endorse WF mutlaq?  Doe Tabatabi endorse Khomeini?  Was Tabatabai happy about Mutahhhari's political activism?  

I used to be a very big fan of Khomeini by the way.  But apparently God has his ways of making people look at reality from a different perspective.  The good thing is that you arent into New Age.  And I am happy you are interested in Theoretical Irfan.  I hope inshallah you find a true spiritual Master (if you havent already), and that you attain your Goal.  

Masalama
Ethereal

Edited by eThErEaL, 03 December 2010 - 07:05 PM.

[Ruh.Mujarad]

eThErEaL, on 03 December 2010 - 06:43 PM, said:

Salaam,

I didn't come across your post before. So , sorry for the delay.

New Age spirituality may not be caused by Khomeini, but he caused it to thrive in Iran amongst the youth today. Because had it not been for him, the youth would not have been so repulsed by Islam as represented by corrupt ulema. You cant compare the Prophet (S) with Khomeini. The Prophet has eliminated corruption, but Khomeini has done the exact opposite. And even Nasr endorses Wilayatul Faqih as part of the Shia tradition. But does Tabatabai endorse WF mutlaq? Doe Tabatabi endorse Khomeini? Was Tabatabai happy about Mutahhhari's political activism?

I used to be a very big fan of Khomeini by the way. But apparently God has his ways of making people look at reality from a different perspective. The good thing is that you arent into New Age. And I am happy you are interested in Theoretical Irfan. I hope inshallah you find a true spiritual Master (if you havent already), and that you attain your Goal.

Masalama
Ethereal

Know very well that you will be accountable on the day of judgment for what you are accusing Imam Khomeini (qs) of. You will stand with him before God Almighty, and he will take his rights from you insha'Allah for what you falsely accused and degraded his sacred status. My advice to you is seek intercession of Imam Khomeini (qs)'s sacred soul in order to purify your self and and be guided to the straight path of wayfaring towards Allah (swt). One of my teachers (may Allah - swt - reward him for his great efforts) once gave a believer who was suffering from some spiritual illness a remedy to purify the soul. The remedy was to keep looking at the face of Imam Khomeini (qs) more than one time a day. Alhamdulillah this remedy has worked for that believer as well as many seekers of the Truth.

Since you made yourself an official spokesman on behalf of God, then let me remind you of this holy verse:

"Is someone the evil of whose conduct is presented as decorous to him, so he regards it as good. . . . Indeed Allah leads astray whomever He wishes ..." [35:8]

It is very unfortunate to see a person with your potential brother, running after those who have been deceived. Go to Qum and take guidance from the students of Ayatollah Sayyed Ali al-Qadhi , students of Ayatollah Sheikh Behjat who supported Imam Khomeini (qs)'s leadership and movement till the last breath, students of Ayatollah Sheikh Hassan Zada Amoli the Nasir ad-Din al-Tusi of our time. Don't be deceived by those who speak in the name of 'irfan and suluk. There is not one true 'arif that has spoken ill of Imam Khomeini (qs). In fact, all the existing ones and those who were at the time of the revolution stood side by side with the Imam (qs). I wonder how you will answer God on the day of judgment, when you see over 50 'arifs who supported the revolution yet you claim that they are all deceived and ran after their worldly desires. This is all in defense of a personality that refused to stand with it's Islamic principles, and preferred to support the tyrant regime of the Shah (may he suffer in hell for eternity). Where has the dignity and honor gone? If this is what you took from 'irfan, and if this is what you consider to be God's guidance to make you see reality from a different perspective, then there is nothing but remorse and pity that could be felt for you.

Wasalam

[Ruh.Mujarad]

Al-salamu alaikum wa rahmatullah,

As promised, here is the elaboration on the previously stated points. My concern is not to prove to brother Ethereal whether the theory of Wilayat al-Faqih is legitimate or not. I don't believe - from what I've seen so far - that he has enough background knowledge on the issue. It seems that he read criticisms here and there, either from Nasr or some other Western orientalists or ignorant scholars (I don't want to believe otherwise, because it will be degrading to those who make such claims) and took them for granted. As for having a jurisprudential and historical overview of the concept/theory, I also highly doubt it. Therefore, the following posts aim to nourish the historical/jurisprudential background of the brothers and sisters.

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1) The historical significance of the theory of Wilayat al-Faqih. Which scholars believed in it, which didn't? Why wasn't the theory researched in depth? Are there any treatise's written on it from our previous scholars?

Let's begin by stating the views of the "post-major occultation" scholars regarding the leadership and succession/representation of the 12th Imam (mAhr) and carrying out his duties/responsibilities in managing the affairs of the Muslim/Shi'a society.

In this section, the views of the following scholars will be quoted:

1) Shaykh al-Mufīd (D. 413 H./1022 CE)

2) Al-Sharīf al-Mourtaḍa (D. 436 H./1044 CD) - The brother of the compiler of Nahjul Balagha.

3) Abu as-Salāḥ al-Ḥalabī (D. 447 H.)

4) Shaykh al-Ṭusī [Shaykh al-Ṭaʾifah] (D. 460 H.)

5) Sallār ad-Daylamī (D. 463 H.)

6) Ibn Ḥamzah (D. 560 H.)

7) Qutb ad-Dīn al-Rāwandi (D573 H.)

8) Ibn Idrīs al-Ḥillī (D. 598 H.)

9) Muḥaqiq al-Ḥillī (D. 676 H.)

10) ʿAllamah al-Ḥillī (D. 726 H.)

11) Fakhr al-Muḥaqiqīn al-Ḥasan bin Yusef al-Ḥillī (D. 771 H.)

12) Shahīd al-Awwal Muḥammad bin Makki al-ʿāmilī (D. 786 H.) the author of al-Lumʾah ad-Dimashqiyya.

13) al-Faḍil al-Miqdād al-Naysāburī (D. 826 H.)

14) Ibn Fahd al-Ḥillī (D. 841 H.)

15) al-Muḥaqiq al-Thānī al-Karakī (D. 940 H.)

16) Shahīd al-Thānī al-ʿāmilī (D. 966 H.)

17) Muḥaqiq al-Ardabīlī (D. 993 H.)

18) Sayyid Musawī al-ʿāmilī (D. 1009 H.) the author of al-Madārik.

19) Shaykh al-Bahāʾi (D. 1030 H.)

20) Muḥqiq al-Sabzawārī (D. 1090 H.)

21) al-Faydh al-Kāshānī (D. 1091 H.)

22) Allamah al-Majlisī (D. 1111 H.)

23) Muḥaqiq al-Qummī (D. 1221 H.)

24) Sayyid Muḥammad Jawād al-Ḥusaynī (D. 1226 H.)

25) Shaykh Jaʿfar Kashif al-Ghitāʾ (D. 1228 H.)

26) Sayyid Ali al-Ṭabāṭabāʾī (D. 1231 H.)

27) Sayyid Muḥammad al-Mujāhid (D. 1242 H.)

28) Mawla Aḥmad al-Narāqī (D. 1245 H.)

29) Sayyid Abdil Fattāḥ al-Ḥusaynī (D. 1250 H.)

30) Shaykh Muḥammad Ḥassan al-Najafī (D. 1266 H.) author of the great jurisprudential book "Jawāhir al-Kalām"

31) Shaykh al-Aʿẓam al-Ansārī (D. 1281 H.)

32) Mirza Muḥammad Ḥasan al-Shīrāzī (D. 1312 H.)

33) Shaykh Aghā Riḍā al-Hamadānī (D. 1322 H.)

34) Shaykh Fadlullah al-Nurī (D. 1327 H.)

35) Sayyid Muḥmmad Baḥr al-ʿulum (D. 1326 H.)

36) al-Akhund al-Khorāsānī (D. 1329 H.)

37) Sayyid Muḥammad Kāẓim al-Yazdī (D. 1337 H.)

38) Muḥaqiq al-Naʾīnī (D. 1355 H.)

39) Sayyid al-Barujardī (D. 1380 H.)

40) Sayyid Muḥsin al-Ḥakīm (D. 1390 H.)

41) Imam Khomeini [ra] (D. 1409 H.)

  

There are many more, but I think it suffices to mention these names which are considered to be the pillars of Shi'a Islam. Just having a quick glimpse at these names shows how ingrained this theory is in Shi'a jurisprudence. How sad it is to see people claiming that the theory of Wilayat al-Faqih al-'amma and the leadership of the jurist during the occultation of the 12th Imam is something that Imam Khomeini (qs) innovated into religion and that this authority was traditionally sought to be solely for the infallible Imam . This shows nothing but the low level of intellect and jurisprudential/historical knowledge of whoever makes such claim. It would be quite interesting to hear the view of these people regarding the Wilayah/Walayah of the infallible Imams . What does their Wilayah represent? How many aspects is there to it? Which is thaati (essential) and which is 'aradhi (accidental)? When one understands these two aspects of Wilayah in the infallible's , he will clearly be able to understand how the leadership and absolute authority is not something essential to the Imam , rather, it is for whoever occupies the position of leadership. The only issue is that if the Imam is alive, then it is obligatory for him to take that position since he is the most fit to take it. Otherwise, leadership has nothing to do with the intrinsic and essential Wilayah of the infallible Imam .


Insha'Allah there will be a continuation on this topic soon to come.




Wasalam

[eThErEaL]

Imami_ali, on 04 December 2010 - 10:02 AM, said:

Know very well that you will be accountable on the day of judgment for what you are accusing Imam Khomeini (qs) of. You will stand with him before God Almighty, and he will take his rights from you insha'Allah for what you falsely accused and degraded his sacred status. My advice to you is seek intercession of Imam Khomeini (qs)'s sacred soul in order to purify your self and and be guided to the straight path of wayfaring towards Allah (swt). One of my teachers (may Allah - swt - reward him for his great efforts) once gave a believer who was suffering from some spiritual illness a remedy to purify the soul. The remedy was to keep looking at the face of Imam Khomeini (qs) more than one time a day. Alhamdulillah this remedy has worked for that believer as well as many seekers of the Truth.

Since you made yourself an official spokesman on behalf of God, then let me remind you of this holy verse:

"Is someone the evil of whose conduct is presented as decorous to him, so he regards it as good. . . . Indeed Allah leads astray whomever He wishes ..." [35:8]

It is very unfortunate to see a person with your potential brother, running after those who have been deceived. Go to Qum and take guidance from the students of Ayatollah Sayyed Ali al-Qadhi , students of Ayatollah Sheikh Behjat who supported Imam Khomeini (qs)'s leadership and movement till the last breath, students of Ayatollah Sheikh Hassan Zada Amoli the Nasir ad-Din al-Tusi of our time. Don't be deceived by those who speak in the name of 'irfan and suluk. There is not one true 'arif that has spoken ill of Imam Khomeini (qs). In fact, all the existing ones and those who were at the time of the revolution stood side by side with the Imam (qs). I wonder how you will answer God on the day of judgment, when you see over 50 'arifs who supported the revolution yet you claim that they are all deceived and ran after their worldly desires. This is all in defense of a personality that refused to stand with it's Islamic principles, and preferred to support the tyrant regime of the Shah (may he suffer in hell for eternity). Where has the dignity and honor gone? If this is what you took from 'irfan, and if this is what you consider to be God's guidance to make you see reality from a different perspective, then there is nothing but remorse and pity that could be felt for you.

Wasalam

Salaam,

I apologize If I have given anyone the impression that I have spoken on behalf of God.  First of all, I leave the judgement on God to make.  I trust in God's mercy.  But I also cannot deny what Khomeini has done in the name of Irfan and Islam.  I am pretty sure he believed in everything he taught and did (obviously I don't think he was after material or wordly gain--rather he was after what he thought was noble and right).  All I can criticize is what has resulted from his leadership.  Secondly, I didn't make any claims about any of those 50 arifs running after worldly desires.  I have absolutely no knowledge about what is/was in their minds--and yes I am open to learning from them, i am pretty sure they have an immense amount of knowledge that I can benefit from.  I appreciate the advice you have given me about going to Qom.  You never know, perhaps one day I will go to Qom to learn from them (if that is my destiny).          

Masalama
Ethereal