45 replies to this topic

[umm_alawi]

Aisha vs. The Holy Quran


Ayesha's entry onto the battlefield of Jamal was a violation of the Qur'an. b Allah (swt) states clearly with regards to the wives of Rasulullah (s): b "And stay quietly in your houses, and make not a dazzling display, like that of the former Times of Ignorance;...." Al-Quran 33:33b

In Tafsir Durre Manthur Volume 5 page 196 under the commentary of this verse we read a narration that states "when Hadhrath Saudah , wife of the Prophet (s), was asked why she did not perform Hajj and Umrah (regularly) like other wives of the Prophet (s)? Saudha said, "I have performed Hajj and Umrah (before) and Allah has given me the order to stay at home. By God I will not leave home until my death." The narrator added "by God, Saudah did not leave her home after the Prophet (s) until her death, when her funeral was taken out".

This verse came down exclusively for the wives of Rasulullah (s) and in the commentary of this verse we can see that Hadhrath Sauda deemed it as a clear injunction for her to remain at home.

Rasulullah (s) had told his wives during Hajjatul Wida (final pilgrimage) that this WAS their first and last Hajj and that in future they were to remain within their homes. To prove our claim we present al Bidaya wa al Nihaya Volume 7 page 104, where Ibn Kathir under the Chapter "Zainab binte Jahsh" records the following: "During the Farewell Hajj, Prophet (s) had told his wives that "This is your last Hajj, after that you have to pray on floor mats". The narrator then added that except for Zainab bint e Jahsh and Saudah(RA) all other wives used to go for Hajj but these two used to say that "nothing shall move us".

Rasulullah's order and Hadhrath Saudah's commentary of this verse is clear proof that there was a mandatory duty placed by Allah on the wives of Rasulullah (s), that they remain within the confines of their homes. Despite this Hadhrath Ayesha opposed this explicit verse of the Qur'an and left her home to instigate opposition against the Imam of the time.

We have already proven that this verse placed an unconditional order on the wives to stay at home. On the contrary we read in Tafsir Durre Manthur Volume 5 page 196 commentary of Surah Ahzab, Hilayat al Awliya Volume 2 page 48, Chapter "Dhikr Ayesha" and Tabaqat al Kabeer Volume 8 page 81 under the Chapter "Dhikr Ayesha" that: "When Hadhrath Ayesha used to recite the Ayat ("And stay quietly in your houses, and make not a dazzling display, like that of the former Times of Ignorance;.." Al-Quran 33:33) she used to cry so much that her cover used to get wet with tears".

Therefore we can say that it was mandatory for Hadhrath Ayesha to stay at home. The crying of Hazrat Ayesha at the recitation of the verse is clear proof that during her battle with Imam 'Ali she had gone against this ayat which is specific for the Prophets (s) wives. By leaving her house and fighting Imam 'Ali she had violated this Qur'anic order, one that placed a condition on the wives of Rasulullah (s) to remain within their homes.

Imam Ali (as)'s letter to Hadhrath Ayesha testifies to her being on the wrong path
We read in al Tadkhirath al Khawwas page 38, Matalib al Sa'ul page 112 and Fusul ul Muhimma page 72 that: "Prior to the Battle of Jamal he [Imam Ali] wrote a letter to Ayesha in which he said 'by leaving your home you have opposed the order of Allah (swt) and his Rasul (s)"

Hadhrath Ayesha's reply demonstrates her uncompromising attitude towards an amicable settlement Matalib al Sa'ul page 116 and Fusul ul Muhimma page 72 both record Hadhrath Ayesha's defiant reply to Imam 'Ali (as)'s letter: "Son of 'Abu Talib, the difference between us is irreconcilable, time is running out, and we shall not submit to your authority, whatever you wish to do, do it".

Hadhrath Ayesha had demonstrated open opposition to Imam 'Ali , a refusal to accept his authority and a challenge to him to stop her opposition party. Imam 'Ali hence was left with no other choice but to quash the opposition. Hadhrath Ayesha had made clear that her intention was that of open defiance and disobedience to the Imam of the time. Letter of Ummul Momineen Hadhrath Umme Salmah to stop Hadhrath Ayesha from participating in the Battle of Jamal is concrete evidence that Hazrat Ayesha was in error.

"When Ummul Momineen Aisha decided to go for Jamal, Ummul Momineen Umme Salmah wrote to her: b "From Umme Salmah wife of the Holy prophet to Aisha Ummul Momineenb , And I praise Allah, There is no God except Allah, and then (I want to say), you are the medium between the prophet and his followers (Ummah). And you are guardian of his honour. The Holy Quran has gathered you so don't despair…. Pillars of this religion cannot be upheld on women. Women are praised for keeping down their eyes and hiding their bodies. Allah has exempted me and you from this task (of leading the battle). What will you say on the day of Judgement when Allah's Prophet will denounce you from Paradise on the deserts that you torn the veil which Allah had concealed you with" . Then the announcer will announce that the mother (Umme Salmah) remained here (didn't go for the battle) so should you".

We read in al Bidaya Volume 7 page 231 that: b "Hadhrath Hafsa binte Umar made preparations to join Ayesha, but (her brother) Abdullah Ibne Umar prevented her from going".

If the stance of Ayesha was correct then why did 'Abdullah Ibne Umar; a leading companion prevent his sister from joining in the rebellion? b Clearly he deemed it inappropriate for the wife of Rasulullah (s) to behave in such a manner.

Ayesha wanted to install herself as the Imam over the nation. In Tadkhirath al Khawwas page 43 Chapter "Dhikr Jamal" the narrator states:"I was walking through Jamal and witnessed a man on the ground rubbing his heels and reciting poetry, another narrators states that someone asked (the same man) 'Who are you?' to which he replied 'I am in that woman's army who intends to become Ameerul Momineen".

Rasulullah (s) condemned women at the helm of a people. We read in Sahih al
Bukhari Volume 9, Book 88, Number 219: Narrated Abu Bakra: During the battle of Al-Jamal, Allah benefited me with a Word (I heard from the Prophet). When the Prophet heard the news that the people of the Persia had made the daughter of Khosrau their Queen (ruler), he said, "Never will succeed such a nation as makes a woman their ruler."

i also looked up the names Ali and Aisha in the dictionanry and this is wut i came up with.........


A·li (ن-lē') , 600?–661.
Muslim caliph (656–661) after whose assassination Islam was divided into Sunnite and Shiite sects.

And then again aisha…..

A·i·sha also A·ye·sha (ن'ē-shن') , 611–678.
The favorite wife of Muhammad. She led an unsuccessful revolt against Muhammad's successor, Ali.

Sunni and Shia views of Ali

Ali ibn Abi Talib (c. 21st March 598 – 661) was an early Islamic leader. He is seen by the Sunni Muslims as the last of the Khulafa-e-Rashidun, the exemplary first four rightly guided caliphs. Shi'a Muslims see him as the first imam and the first rightful caliph. He was also Muhammad's cousin, and, after marrying Fatima, his son-in-law as well.

Sunni and Shia views of Aisha
Sunni historians praise Aisha as a Mother of Believers and a learned woman, who tirelessly recounted stories from the life of Muhammad and explained Muslim history and traditions.
Shi'a historians take a much dimmer view of Aisha. They believe that 'Ali should have been the first caliph, and that the other three caliphs were usurpers. Aisha not only supported the usurpers, she raised an army against her son-in-law. The Shia believe that she openly fought the divinely appointed successor of Muhammad, thus commiting a grievous sin.

The Battle of the Camel

Abu Bakr's reign was short, and in 634 C.E. he was succeeded by Umar, as caliph. Umar reigned 10 years, and was then followed by Uthman in 644 C.E. Both of these men had been among Muhammad's earliest followers, were linked to him by clanship and marriage, and had taken prominent parts in various military campaigns.
Aisha, in the meantime, lived in Medina and made several pilgrimages to Mecca.
In 656 C.E. Uthman was killed by rebellious Muslim soldiers. The rebels then asked Ali to be the new caliph. Many reports absolve Ali of complicity in the murder. He is reported to have refused the caliphate, saying, b "You are not a people fit for my ruler ship nor am I a master fit for you people"b . He agreed to rule only after he was threatened with death.
Aisha raised a small army which confronted Ali's army outside the city of Basra. Battle ensued and Aisha's forces were defeated. Aisha was directing her forces from a howdah on the back of a camel; this 656 battle is therefore called the Battle of the Camel.
Ali captured Aisha but declined to harm her. He sent her back to Medina under military escort. Thenceforth she lived a retired life until she died in approximately 678.


whos goin against the Quran now??

[poiuyt]

Haq Maula Ali Madad!

Excellent post

[umm_alawi]

^^^^thx
i guess no sunni wants to answer this

[delight]

What I like about your post is this

Quote

Ayesha wanted to install herself as the Imam over the nation. In Tadkhirath al Khawwas page 43 Chapter "Dhikr Jamal" the narrator states:"I was walking through Jamal and witnessed a man on the ground rubbing his heels and reciting poetry, another narrators states that someone asked (the same man) 'Who are you?' to which he replied 'I am in that woman's army who intends to become Ameerul Momineen".

What authenticity of the reporter.He was a a man on the ground rubbing his heels and reciting poetry!Can anyone doubt him.Maybe he is the Honorable gentleman that supplies the shia all their information.

I will only say that murder of a Qyrish khalif was not a little thing.As murder investigation of Ali was only limited to questioning his widow,while all the fingers pointed at kufa.When the murderer was none other than Muhammad s/o abubakr,the closest companion of Ali.
Not anything more,as I am too young to be banned.
HUM BOLEGA TU BOLOGAY
KAY BOLTA HAI.

Here is the standard sunni answer from Rasael e rizwiyah,where all ends well.

We the followers of Sunni Sect, regard Hazrat Ali (Radi Allaho Anho) to be just and on the right side in his Cause. We also think his opponents to be victims of misunderstanding or rather wrong decision in their Ijtihad. Further, We think that Hazrat Asadullah (Radi Allaho Anho) happened to be more exalted and superior to the others who fought against him. However, paying due regard to the Ahadith about the ranks and bounties of the opponents of Hazrat Ali (Radi Allaho Anho) we do not dare to use our tongue to reproach or rebuke them. We therefore pay due respect to them, which they deserve according to their ranks and status already attained by them. So we do not distinguish between them or in any way prefer them upon one another. We regard it to be unlawful to interfere in their contradictory matters and conflicts. We think that their difference were very much like the differences between Hazrat Abu Hanifa and Hazrat Shafai. For us, the followers of Sunni faith it is not permissible to taunt or rebuke any of the Holy Companions (Radi Allaho A'nhum) of even lower ranks. So how can it be possible for us that we can dare to condemn the Mother of Momins Bibi Ayesha Siddiqa (Radi Allaho Anha)? In what way can we reproach a lady of such reverence and exalted rank? Let Allah forbid us to do any such thing because such action will be insolence in the presence of Allah and His HOLY PROPHET (Sall Allaho Alaihe Wasallam). Allah has revealed versed relating to her purification and exoneration from the false accusation made about her chastity by the hypocrites. Allah has given severe warning of painful torments unto the culprits. The HOLY PROPHET (Sall Allaho Alaihe Wasallam) loved her most among his pious wives. Where she used to touch the tumbler of water to satisfy her thirst he used to put his lips there to quench his thirst. Though all the pious wives of the HOLY PROPHET (Sall Allaho Alaihe Wasallam) are wholly his wives both in this world and Hereafter but he loved Bibi Ayesha (Radi Allaho Anha) so much that it had been said specially about her that she happened to be his wife both in this world and Hereafter. The HOLY PROPHET (Sall Allaho Alaihe Wasallam) ordered his beloved daughter Bibi Fatima Zohra (Radi Allaho Anha).
And it is quoted as to have been said by Hazrat Ali Murtaza (Radi Allaho Anho) that:

"If Allah so will I and Usman, Talha and Zubair are among those about whom Allah said".

We longed for and mentioned for them.

After this instruction of Hazrat Moula Ali (Radi Allaho Anho) still to blame Hazrat Talha and Hazrat Zubair (Radi Allaho A'nhum) is wrong saying that their armed conflict with Hazrat Ali (Radi Allaho Anho) was a war or an act against their common sense and wisdom. And it is also wrong to think that it was a war against Moula Ali (Radi Allaho Anho) himself and in fact a war against Allah and His HOLY PROPHET (Sall Allaho Alaihe Wasallam) as well. (Let Allah forbid us from making accusations). The pages of history are evident that no sooner Hazrat Zubair (Radi Allaho Anho) realized his mistake he withdrew from the war immediately. According to another tradition Hazrat Talha (Radi Allaho Anho) took the oath of allegiance of Moula Ali (Radi Allaho Anho) on a later date through some agency or an assistant. And when the war of Jamal came to an end then Moula Ali (Radi Allaho Anho) ordered Hazrat Muhammad bin Abu Bakr (Radi Allaho Anho) to go and see whether by chance Bibi Ayesha (Radi Allaho Anha) had suffered any harm or injury. And soon after this he called on Bibi Ayesha (Radi Allaho Anha) and inquired "How are your?" To which Bibi Ayesha (Radi Allaho Anha) replied "Praise is for Allah. I'm fine." And Moula Ali (Radi Allaho Anho) said "Let Allah pardon you". Then Bibi Ayesha (Radi Allaho Anha) remarked: "So you be (pardoned)".

After the burial of those who were killed in the battle Hazrat Moula Ali (Radi Allaho Anho) arranged for the return of Bibi Siddiqa (Radi Allaho Anha) to Hijaz with full honour and esteem under the supervision of Hazrat Muhammad bin Abu Bakr (Radi Allaho Anho) accompanied by forty (40) respectable ladies. Hazrat Ali (Radi Allaho Anho) himself accompanied her for a long distance to see her off and Hazrat Imam Hassan (Radi Allaho Anho) went alongwith her for several miles.

While going back Bibi Ayesha (Radi Allaho Anha) confessed before a crowd:

"I neither had any kind of resentment against Ali (Radi Allaho Anho) before nor have it at present. However between son-in-law and mother-in-law sometimes such things crop up which I do not deny".

Hearing this Hazrat Ali (Radi Allaho Anho) said:

"O people Bibi Hazrat Ayesha (Radi Allaho Anha) is telling the truth I swear by Allah that our conflict is not more than that; come what may. She is after all the wife of your HOLY PROPHET (Sall Allaho Alaihe Wasallam) both in this world and also in Hereafter.

Allah, Allah, What a mutual affection and love and also esteem and respect for each other actually existed between these truthful and pure friends! And Lo! Some of our simpleton friends who are deprived of common sense support Hazrat Ali (Radi Allaho Anho) by means of taunting and rebuking the aforesaid people and regard this vicious practice to be a basis of their religion. They think their resentment and enmity against these persons is a proof of their affection and devotion towards Ali (Radi Allaho Anho).

And there is no power and no force except of Allah the Ali (Exalted): We should remember that Allah is Azeem (Great). Therefore let the Muslims of Sunni Sect refresh their faith and understand that if there existed any kind of animosity and hatred in the hearts of Holy Companions (Radi Allaho A'nhum) or if they had any ill intentions and any disorder or miscreancy in their affairs then there would have been no meaning in the fact to remember them by the words "Radi Allah A'nhum".

When we say, "Allah is pleased with them", it means that Allah is pleased with their inner and outer intentions and their consciences. In fact their manners and performances are laudable in the Divine presence of Allah. Therefore Allah reveals: "But Allah has made faith to be dear unto you and ordered it in your hearts and has made infidelity, and non compliance of command and disobedience to be hateful.

So whomever disbelieves or says anything against it then he spoils his faith and ruins his life in Hereafter (Let Allah forbid it).


"Fatima if you love me than be in love with Ayesha as well because I love her". It is laid down in the (authentic) collection of Ahadith namely "Sahih Muslim" that so said the HOLY PROPHET (Sall Allaho Alaihe Wasallam) to Syeda Fatima:

"O daughter Do not you love one whom I love?"

She replied "Why not".

Then he said:

"Then love her (Bibi Ayesha)".

The HOLY PROPHET (Sall Allaho Alaihe Wasallam) was asked, "Who is your affectionate person among the human beings?"

He replied: "Ayesha".

She was that Ayesha Siddiqa binet Siddique (Radi Allaho Anho), Mother of Momins who was the most admirable lady of the Rab of the worlds.

She was that Siddiqa whose portrait attired in silk of paradise was brought to the HOLY PROPHET (Sall Allaho Alaihe Wasallam) by Holy Spirit (Hazrat Jibrael/ Gabriel).

She was that Mother of the Momins that the most reverend and exalted angel Hazrat Jibrael (Gabriel) used to salute her and did not enter her parlor without her prior permission. She was that Siddiqa that except in her bed sheet in none other's bed sheet (of other Mothers of the Momins) Allah had ever sent His revelation. She was such beloved of the HOLY PROPHET (Sall Allaho Alaihe Wasallam) that if she did not accompany the HOLY PROPHET (Sall Allaho Alaihe Wasallam) in any journey then he used to remember her saying "WA Urusa" (O'Bride).

She was that Siddiqa that for her amicable exoneration and proof of her purity and chastity the verses of Quran had been revealed. Whereas Ruhullah Kalmatullah (Spirit of Allah, the Word of Allah) had certified the chastity of Hazrat Yusuf (Joseph) had witnessed a child of the people of Zulekha and the chastity of Bibi Marium (Mary).

She was that Mother of the Momins that the HOLY PROPHET (Sall Allaho Alaihe Wasallam) used to watch her while she used to drink water from the pot and to note the spot from where she drank the water and thereafter he used to put his lips at the very spot to quench his thirst.

Every body can consult his heart and imagine that in case any body humiliates his mother or accuses her (of adultery) or rebukes her then how badly he will feel and become hostile to such a person? No doubt he will become bloodthirsty of such a culprit. Then how can it be that the Mothers of the Momins be so disliked that even after reciting the Kalimah (The Word of faith) and embracing Islam one can dare to taunt or accuse them and still he claims to be a Muslim?

"There is no power and no force except of Allah, the Ali (Radi Allaho Anho) (Exalted) Azeem (Great)".

As regards Hazrat Zubair and Hazrat Talha (Radi Allaho A'nhum) who happened to be more superior/eminent to us being the members of Ashrah-e-Mubash-Sharah the most pious ten companions of the HOLY PROPHET (Sall Allaho Alaihe Wasallam). Hazrat Zubair bin ul Awam (Radi Allaho Anho) was the son of the paternal aunt of the HOLY PROPHET (Sall Allaho Alaihe Wasallam), a comrade and an assistant.

And Hazrat Talha (Radi Allaho Anho) stood like a shield to save the Holy Countenance of the HOLY PROPHET (Sall Allaho Alaihe Wasallam) in the true hour of need

[umm_alawi]

i never read all of wut u wrote, but i guess its the same old answers sunni always give us. can u provide us with proof from the Quran or any logic answer that makes me believe that when this women went to fight Imam Ali she was not thinkin right and then she started to think right after the war was over and 100,000 muslims dead

Edited by umm_alawi, 11 July 2005 - 04:30 PM.

[delight]

History doesn't give its opinion on motive of a person.
Prejudice of historians or reader decide that.
Nobody in Islamic history claimed to follow Satan.all were following Allah.
But some religion like Hindus,Christians and shia made this prejudice choice part of salvation.
But Sunnis only read the historical part of history,they don't give their opinion on motive of the players.
I do have this opinion,but than I am called a nasibi,and shia are called rafidis.
Judging people motives from history is a tricky business.
Hazrat Ayesha went to war to avenge the murder of a khalif.
Who planned his murder?I have my own edited opinion.
But these are special circumstances,where laws of quran can be broken.
For Eg,Eating bacon when you are hungry,or inheritance to a child in case of Imam mehdi.
Malik ashter cut three legs of ayesha camel ,it was still standing,he was convinced that ayesha was protected by higher power and only agreed to cut the final leg on insistence of Ali.
This also prove that Allah was protecting her,and He never protect wrongdoers.

[Firoz Ali]

Salaam Alaiqum,
Yaa Ali Madad

Did aisha repent after the battle of jamal??

Allah Hafiz
Yaa Ali madad

Hussainyet Zindabad
yazeediyet murdabad
Firoz Alo

[delight]

Salam,

Standard sunni answer.
While going back Bibi Ayesha (Radi Allaho Anha) confessed before a crowd:

"I neither had any kind of resentment against Ali (Radi Allaho Anho) before nor have it at present. However between son-in-law and mother-in-law sometimes such things crop up which I do not deny".

Hearing this Hazrat Ali (Radi Allaho Anho) said:

"O people Bibi Hazrat Ayesha (Radi Allaho Anha) is telling the truth I swear by Allah that our conflict is not more than that; come what may. She is after all the wife of your HOLY PROPHET (Sall Allaho Alaihe Wasallam) both in this world and also in Hereafter.

My answer.

She lost the war,so only reconciliation could have saved her from shias of Ali.Ali had more enemies,so he didn't wanted trouble in home.

[Aliya]

^ source?

from http://www.dartablig...ol2/page122.asp

'Ali began to speak and, addressing the people, he said: "Obey what I told you and carry Out my order, for, if you do so, I will lead you with the aid of God to the right path, eternal happiness and heavens, even though in this course we will be faced with hardships, bitterness and failures.
As for 'A'ishah, her inner complexes towards me roused her to hurt me, whereas she would not treat others in that way. Nevertheless now I show her respect and goodness as I have done in the past and leave her to God for him to deal with her good and bad deeds.
It is God who decides to punish everyone for his guilt and sin or to pardon him."

[Aliya]

Delight, don't bother about the source, just found it on some fairytale site that paints the rosy picture of all sahaba loving each other and the wars all being simple little misunderstandings, no one wrong, etc. http://www.dawateislami.net/services/libra...ult.asp?artid=4 Are we expected to take a site/article seriously that defends Muawiya (LA)?

Edited by Aliya, 12 July 2005 - 11:10 AM.

[Shi3i*-Lebanese]

According to you delight , Ayisha went against Imam Ali to avenge the murder of Othman . By this you're saying that Imam Ali had a hand in the killing of Othman
Secondly, who gave Ayisha the proxy to go into war against the Imam of her time ? Since when do women take out Men's work ?
Those who hurt the Prophet are deemed by Allah , and Ayisha went against Imam Ali who is the brother , cousin , son in law , and the self of the Prophet .
If Ayisha did not hate Imam Ali she wouldn't have went into a war against him . Perhaps someone should've reminded her of what the Prophet said to Imam Ali : "None loves you except a believer, and none hates you except a hypocrite."
Salam.

[YoungMind]

Aliya, on Jul 12 2005, 11:09 AM, said:

Delight, don't bother about the source, just found it on some fairytale site that paints the rosy picture of all sahaba loving each other and the wars all being simple little misunderstandings, no one wrong, etc.   http://www.dawateislami.net/services/libra...ult.asp?artid=4  Are we expected to take a site/article seriously that defends Muawiya (LA)?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Most Urdu websites about sunnism can actually be quite hilarious, especially when the illiterate minds who made these website try to write in English.

[delight]

Quote

Nevertheless now I show her respect and goodness as I have done in the past and leave her to God for him to deal with her good and bad deeds.

This saying of Ali is followed by Sunnis,but not by those who call themselves followers of Ali.
I don't love him,so don't follow him.What is your excuse?

As for the women issue,ayesha fought in every battle alongside Prophet.

There is my thread Murder of Uthman still unanswered.

Maybe the murderer didn't listen this hadeeth of Prophet.

"Every Prophet has an assistant, and my assistant will be Uthman."

[Firoz Ali]

Salaam Alaiqum,
Yaa Ali madad

delight, on Jul 11 2005, 04:14 PM, said:

    Not anything more,as I am too young to be banned.
HUM BOLEGA TU BOLOGAY
  KAY BOLTA HAI.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

BOLNEY KI MANA NAHI HAI
KUTTEY KI TARAH BHOKNEY KI MANA HAI--

Samjey , ????
abhi tak kisi ney bolney sey roka??
yah shareef logo ka forum hai--


Allah Haffiz
Yaa Ali Madad
Hussinyet Zindabad
yazeediyet Murdabad

Firoz Ali

[Aliya]

delight, showing respect does not mean excusing her continued bad actions, etc. it means he did not treat her like one might treat another woman in her situation (i.e. taking her captive, etc.). He sent her back home. It certainly doesn't mean they became friends afterward, though we know the sunnis have this picture of all these sahaba sitting around singing kumbaya between their arguments, incitements and wars and frankly it speaks TONS about his character, and NOTHING about hers.

Edited by Aliya, 12 July 2005 - 02:29 PM.

[delight]

Salam,
MEIN AKEL KARHA HOON JANGAL MEIN
IS LIYA SAANS RUK KE LETA HOON.

Isi sharif logon ke forum mein meri maan ko galiyan de gayein or kiya mujhko ban!

But why did Ali left the matter for God to decide?
Was he not aware of shia practice of reminding God by sending curses?
Ali left the matter for God to decide.
Sunni left the matter for God to decide.
But shia must decide for themselves.
What does it speaks about shia of Ali character?

[Aliya]

shias distance themselves from Aisha, and don't put her on a pedestal. Do you think Ali elevated her as in your fairy tale books? No, he treated her with ISLAMIC respect, and respect for the Prophet &HP, but there's no proof or indication, that they were FRIENDS afterward. In fact, quite the opposite, since she was HAPPY when she heard of Ali's death, astaghfirullah!

[Shi3i*-Lebanese]

no sunni replies to what Aliya said

[Firoz Ali]

delight, on Jul 12 2005, 03:35 PM, said:

Salam, 
    MEIN AKEL KARHA HOON JANGAL MEIN
    IS LIYA SAANS RUK KE LETA HOON.

      Isi sharif logon ke forum mein meri maan ko galiyan de gayein or kiya mujhko ban!

     

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Salaam Alaiqum,

Yaa Ali madad

Akela Phir raha hai tou kya ehasan kar raha hai????

Jab jawab nahi dey pata tab yahoodi ki tarah baat badalna achi baat nahi hai??

teri maan ko gaali KIs ney di ??prove kar key dikha??

u cant win a debate then u start zionist style of moking and insulting and when u r stopped u feel yr rights (of making fun and insulting the shias) have been taken away

u have been given fair chance to speak -- YR POSTS ITSELF IS A PROOF OF THAT--BOLNEY KAA MAUKA DIYA HAI TUMHE-
KUTTEY KI TARAH BHOKNA MANA HAI-- SAMJHEY??

Allah Hafiz
Yaa Ali Madad
Hussainyet Zindabad
Yazeediyet Murdabad
muawaiya pey lanat bey shumar -- lanat on those who know mauwiya was filth and yet support him

[Baatil Ka Kaatil]

Stop the urdu unless u will provide entertaining translations

[delight]

Salam,
NA MODERATOR HAI TU, NA BEHAS MAIN ACHA HEY.
SHIACHAT KI DUNIYA MEIN,TU ABHI AIK BACHA HEY.

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?sh...ic=55345&st=175

Quote

No, he treated her with ISLAMIC respect, and respect for the Prophet &HP, but there's no proof or indication, that they were FRIENDS afterward

But shia cannot treat her with respect?Are they followers of Ali or vice versa,
A person must be a friend of Ali,for shia to respect her!
I think shia could teach Ali many things in good manners.

Quote

and don't put her on a pedestal

Sunni have a habit of putting insignificant people on a pedestal,look at the position of Ali in sunnism.

[Firoz Ali]

delight, on Jul 13 2005, 06:45 AM, said:

Salam,
  NA MODERATOR HAI TU, NA BEHAS MAIN ACHA HEY.
  SHIACHAT KI DUNIYA MEIN,TU ABHI AIK BACHA HEY.
   
http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?sh...ic=55345&st=175

  But shia cannot treat her with respect?Are they followers of Ali or vice versa,
A person must be a friend of Ali,for shia to respect her!
  I think shia could teach Ali many things in good manners. 

Sunni have a habit of putting insignificant people on a pedestal,look at the position of Ali in sunnism.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Abey pahle tuje kaha na baccha tumhey bolney ki mana nahi hai

kuttey ki tarah bhokne ki mana hai --

magar tu aadat sey majbur hai

isliye tujhe yaha saans ghut rahi hai

kitni martaba tujhe laat maar key bhagaya hai ??

phir bhi tu yaha aata hai!!

sudher jha -- shareef ban jha !!

lekin cowards aur farar key supporters sey kya umid kar sakte hai

[Shi3i*-Lebanese]

Imam Ali showed no sign of love or passion for her , he just revealed his humanitarian side ( unlike her ) when he returned her back to madina . Thus , this does not mean she became his friend .

Why should we respect someone who was happy for the martyrdom of Imam Ali ? I remind you again of what the Prophet told Ali : "None loves you except a believer, and none hates you except a hypocrite." Hence , where do you classify Ayisha here ??

[Aliya]

delight, on Jul 13 2005, 04:45 AM, said:

  But shia cannot treat her with respect?Are they followers of Ali or vice versa,
A person must be a friend of Ali,for shia to respect her!
  I think shia could teach Ali many things in good manners. 

Sunni have a habit of putting insignificant people on a pedestal,look at the position of Ali in sunnism.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Shias, most of us anyway, DO have manners toward Aisha, and don't curse her. We tell the TRUTH about her, but clearly so did Imam Ali , since he told the reasons about why she started the war, and afterward I sincerely doubt he denied that the war happened, or lied about her part in it, the way so many non-shias do now.

As for putting insignificant people on pedestals, and Imam Ali's position in sunnism, boy you FINALLY got something right! He should be FIRST (after the Prophet &HP) NOT 4th, (after the 3 usurpers), 5th (if you also put Aisha in front, with the caliphs), or 6th (for those severely misguided people who also include Muawiya (PPEKLA) above their "love" for Imam Ali )! I can't believe you FINALLY said something I agree with!!! What a day this should be... I think the end of the world might be just around the corner

[delight]

Shia go completely mad,after they loose a discussion.
As we should be kind to those,whose brain are touched by the sun,I will ignore your remarks.

Afterall,who can't even tell that a moderator is speaking to him not me,has gone completely batty.

QUOTE(Baatil Ka Kaatil @ Jul 13 2005, 06:37 AM)
Stop the urdu unless u will provide entertaining translations

Salaam Alaiqum,

Yaa Ali madad

Urdu mey tou tuneey hi start kiya that bacchu ??

Samjha ,
jawab nahi dey paa raha hai tab baat badli kar raha hai --
Jyada hushyar baneey ki koshish bekar hai [QUOTE]

Transl.You have started this in Urdu,understand,Now you have no answer so you?are changing the subject.Don't try to be oversmart.

These comments are directed to BKK,the only moderator who understand Urdu.

QUESTION:What kira kat jata hey(insect bites)shia,after having a decent discussion?