18 replies to this topic

[chingari]

salam,

Just wondering what happens to ppl who live in the north pole for ramadan timings.

I mean they have a 23 hour day so to speak ...... and only one hour of nite time sometimes they dont even get any nite time its basically a 24 hour day?? Does anybody know what is the ruling of our marja in this kind of situation?? Are they exempt from fasting??? if not then what are they supposed to do??

looking forward to your replies ...

wasalam.

[Matami-Shah]

^^

interesting

[chingari]

Sayedkk, on Oct 26 2004, 07:56 PM, said:

Salam

These questions are useless, but the answer is, they will go upon the nearest cities iftar time.

Wasalam

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

this is not the answer to my question posted. Please read carefully before u attempt to unleash ur knowledge upon us ppl. Besides this is not a useless question, what do u reckon a muslim living in north pole do!!!

wasalam

[chingari]

Sayedkk, on Oct 26 2004, 08:03 PM, said:

Salam

If they dont have an iftar time, they will break their fast according to the nearest cities iftar time. How many people do you see living in the North Pole? How many people in the North Pole have internet? How many muslims are dumb enough to move to the North Pole? This is why it is useless.

Wasalam

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe their is a muslim scientist who is doing research over there!!!! Think before you speak buddy. Maybe somebodies job requires him or her to live their and frankly speaking i dont think it will be easy travelling to the nearest city cause it would be too far !!! It is also not a question about how many muslims buddy but once again i request u to use ur brain for once and actually go read my question and if you know the answer then answer it or otherwise i suggest u buzz off!!!! I have had it with this nonsense, stick to the topic at hand please.

wasalam

[Kizilbash]

Sayedkk, theres no need to be rude. If you have negative opinions they should be kept to yourself.

[chingari]

Sayedkk, on Oct 26 2004, 08:17 PM, said:

Salam

I do not respect having my answers mocked because you didnt take the time to read them. I do not mock the idiodic responses you make, no matter how dumb they are. I clearly said, they do iftar based on the nearest city. Any literate person would know you dont need to goto another city to do iftar based on their time. Learn to read before you argue.

Wasalam

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Let me ask you a followup question.... is this ruling givin by Ayatullah Sayedkk??

if this question comes as a surprise then go read my initial post once more and this time a bit slowly.

thank you.

wasalam.

[Ex-Muslim]

chingari, on Oct 26 2004, 07:50 PM, said:

salam,

Just wondering what happens to ppl who live in the north pole for ramadan timings.

I mean they have a 23 hour day so to speak ...... and only one hour of nite time sometimes they dont even get any nite time its basically a 24 hour day?? Does anybody know what is the ruling of our marja in this kind of situation?? Are they exempt from fasting??? if not then what are they supposed to do??

looking forward to your replies ...

wasalam.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There is no textual evidence to answer your question. I have raised the same exact question regarding salat in places were sun does not set/rise for months.
http://www.shiachat....pic=19014&st=15

Quran/Ahlul Bayt have not answered this. That should tell you something that Imams did not know of such places in ancient times. (what does that tell you?)

Edited by Ex-Muslim, 26 October 2004 - 07:27 PM.

[chingari]

Sayedkk, on Oct 26 2004, 08:21 PM, said:

Salam

This ruling is given by all Ulama. When we are taught, we are taught fiqh based on Imam Jaafar al Sadiq before what our marji' says. This is why we dont always have rulings for everything. And if there is one, you should look before asking.

Wasalam

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Now you are making a little bit of sense my brother in Islam by saying "

Quote

ruling is given by all Ulama

".

I was looking for a quick answer since it will take the marjas sometime to answer this question. Any ways i did search but to my disappointment i could not find anything ... maybe its my lack of searching abilities ... i dont know.

Either ways if you have worded ur response earlier the way u have done it now it would have been better. I will once again give u a benefit of doubt. Also i would ask you to be respectful to muslim who might be living in the north or south pole. Religion has no boundaries. And would not be considered dumb people in anyway. Also i would ask you to not draw out any conclusions without any proof.... for example:

Quote

And if there is one, you should look before asking.

I did and i didnt find anything.


Wasalam.

[chingari]

Ex-Muslim, on Oct 26 2004, 08:26 PM, said:

There is no textual evidence to answer your question. I have raised the same exact question regarding salat in places were sun does not set/rise for months.
http://www.shiachat....pic=19014&st=15

Quran/Ahlul Bayt have not answered this. That should tell you something that Imams did not know of such places in ancient times. (what does that tell you?)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I am looking for a ruling by the marja thats all. I am not trying to get into a logical debate or anything at all.  Besides i am not that qualified to make a judgement that their is no textual evidence. I do not take up anyones word for that matter. I would rather research and read about it before making judgements. Besides this kind of discussions are not on top of my list.

By the way good topic u started about finite vrs infinite punishment.  

i will definitely look into this topic in the near future.

wasalam.

[kanez-e-Zahra]

Brother Sayedkk, there really is no need to be so rude. This is not useless but in fact a useful question that can arise for people living in countries such as Norway etc. where they have similar problems.

Rulings according to Sayyid Seestani:

For Salat:

71. In some places the sun does not set or does not rise at all for a number of days or months. As a matter of precaution Muslims should rely on the timings of the closest city that has night and day in a twenty-four hour period. Thus, they will, pray five salats according to the times of that closest city with the intention of qurbat in general [i.e., without saying ada (prayer on time) or qadha (prayer outside its time)].

For Fasting:

104. If a Muslim lives in a city that has daylight for six months and night for six months [e.g., the northern part of Europe or Canada], it is obligatory for him to move during the month of Ramadhãn to a city with ‘normal’ day and night so that he can start fasting, if not, he should move after that month to fast as qadhã (making up the missed fast). However, if it is not possible for him to move, then he has to pay compensation (fidya) instead of fasting; that means giving 750 grams of food [rice or flour] to a poor person per day.

105. If a Muslim lives in a city where daylight in some seasons is for 23 hours and the night is only for one hour or vice versa, it is still obligatory on him to fast, if he has the ability to do so. But if he is not able to fast, the obligation is forfieted. If it is possible for him to do qadhã later on [e.g., in other seasons or] by moving to another city, it is wãjib for him to do the qadhã. If he is unable even to do the qadhã, it is obligatory on him to pay fidya in lieu of fasting.

Question: In some cities, the sun does not rise at all for days or does not set at all for days or even more. How should we pray and fast?

Answer: As for salãt, one should, as a matter of obligatory precaution, observe the closest place that has night and day in a twenty-four hour period, then say salãt according to its timings with the intention of mutlaqa [i.e., just qurbatan ilal lah without specifying whether it is ada (on time) or qadhã (after time)].
As for fasting, it is obligatory upon you to move during the month of Ramadhãn to another city where you can observe fasting of this holy month, or move to that city after that month to perform it qadhã.

ws

Edited by kanez-e-Zahra, 26 October 2004 - 07:58 PM.

[vsg]

According to Sayyed fadlullah

Q: How do we pray and fast in countries  where there are no nights?

A: The believers in the countries, which either the day or night lasts for several weeks or months, should perform five prayers a day. Nonetheless they are free to perform them any time they wish or choose the time of the nearest country in which there is a day and night, and the second choice is more appropriate.

On the other hand, fasting is not a duty in this country. It should be performed at a later time, or  one should travel to another country where there is a day and night

[chingari]

Salam,

kanez-e-Zahra, on Oct 26 2004, 08:42 PM, said:

Brother Sayedkk, there really is no need to be so rude. This is not useless but in fact a useful question that can arise for people living in countries such as Norway etc. where they have similar problems.

Rulings according to Sayyid Seestani:

For Salat:

71. In some places the sun does not set or does not rise at all for a number of days or months. As a matter of precaution Muslims should rely on the timings of the closest city that has night and day in a twenty-four hour period. Thus, they will, pray five salats according to the times of that closest city with the intention of qurbat in general [i.e., without saying ada (prayer on time) or qadha (prayer outside its time)].

For Fasting:

104. If a Muslim lives in a city that has daylight for six months and night for six months [e.g., the northern part of Europe or Canada], it is obligatory for him to move during the month of Ramadhãn to a city with ‘normal’ day and night so that he can start fasting, if not, he should move after that month to fast as qadhã (making up the missed fast). However, if it is not possible for him to move, then he has to pay compensation (fidya) instead of fasting; that means giving 750 grams of food [rice or flour] to a poor person per day.

105. If a Muslim lives in a city where daylight in some seasons is for 23 hours and the night is only for one hour or vice versa, it is still obligatory on him to fast, if he has the ability to do so. But if he is not able to fast, the obligation is forfieted. If it is possible for him to do qadhã later on [e.g., in other seasons or] by moving to another city, it is wãjib for him to do the qadhã. If he is unable even to do the qadhã, it is obligatory on him to pay fidya in lieu of fasting.

Question: In some cities, the sun does not rise at all for days or does not set at all for days or even more. How should we pray and fast?

Answer: As for salãt, one should, as a matter of obligatory precaution, observe the closest place that has night and day in a twenty-four hour period, then say salãt according to its timings with the intention of mutlaqa [i.e., just qurbatan ilal lah without specifying whether it is ada (on time) or qadhã (after time)].
As for fasting, it is obligatory upon you to move during the month of Ramadhãn to another city where you can observe fasting of this holy month, or move to that city after that month to perform it qadhã.

ws

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sis kanez-e-Zahra,

Thank you for such an appropriate reply. To the point and concise and very clear. Surely some of you will forgive me since the answer to this question is easily searchable but i do lack searching abilities on the net unfortunately

Sayedkk, on Oct 26 2004, 08:46 PM, said:

Salam

I am learned in the matters of fiqh(and others), so i do not appreciate being talked to like a child in these matters, especially in an easy question like this one.

Wasalam

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are you looking for competition then you should go to hawza!!! This is a virtual community forum where you can find solutions or answers to your questions. IF you know the answer then help someone who doesnt and dont go boosting about your fiqh knowledge. If you know something then answer it. I dont need to tell u this but u do have an attitude problem as most of the members have noticed. Maybe u need to read some self building books that might actually help you in your manners. This is a sincere advise from a brother in Islam. I hope u do let go of your ego and listen for once.

Wasalam.

[chingari]

Sayedkk, on Oct 26 2004, 09:26 PM, said:

Salam

Who says i Dont/Didnt goto hawza?

Wasalam

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

sigh!!!!

[chingari]

salam,

i think u need to take Reading AND Writing 101 and ABOVE ALL MANNERS 101.

wasalam.

[Julius]

Sayedkk,

You need to calm down a little bit. He was just looking for a ruling, not abuse.

[chingari]

Salam,

Maybe i need to highlight ur rudeness. hope this gives u an idea of how rude u are!!!

Sayedkk, on Oct 26 2004, 07:56 PM, said:

Salam

These questions are useless, but the answer is, they will go upon the nearest cities iftar time.

Wasalam

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

rudeness!!!!

Sayedkk, on Oct 26 2004, 08:03 PM, said:

Salam

If they dont have an iftar time, they will break their fast according to the nearest cities iftar time. How many people do you see living in the North Pole? How many people in the North Pole have internet? How many muslims are dumb enough to move to the North Pole? This is why it is useless.

Wasalam

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

rudeness!!!!

Sayedkk, on Oct 26 2004, 08:46 PM, said:

Salam

I am learned in the matters of fiqh(and others), so i do not appreciate being talked to like a child in these matters, especially in an easy question like this one.

Wasalam

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

rudeness AND BOASTING NATURE!!!


who else agrees with me that you are rude!!! Here u go.

Kizilbash, on Oct 26 2004, 08:19 PM, said:

Sayedkk, theres no need to be rude. If you have negative opinions they should be kept to yourself.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

kanez-e-Zahra, on Oct 26 2004, 08:42 PM, said:

Brother Sayedkk, there really is no need to be so rude. This is not useless but in fact a useful question that can arise for people living in countries such as Norway etc. where they have similar problems.

Rulings according to Sayyid Seestani:

For Salat:

71. In some places the sun does not set or does not rise at all for a number of days or months. As a matter of precaution Muslims should rely on the timings of the closest city that has night and day in a twenty-four hour period. Thus, they will, pray five salats according to the times of that closest city with the intention of qurbat in general [i.e., without saying ada (prayer on time) or qadha (prayer outside its time)].

For Fasting:

104. If a Muslim lives in a city that has daylight for six months and night for six months [e.g., the northern part of Europe or Canada], it is obligatory for him to move during the month of Ramadhãn to a city with ‘normal’ day and night so that he can start fasting, if not, he should move after that month to fast as qadhã (making up the missed fast). However, if it is not possible for him to move, then he has to pay compensation (fidya) instead of fasting; that means giving 750 grams of food [rice or flour] to a poor person per day.

105. If a Muslim lives in a city where daylight in some seasons is for 23 hours and the night is only for one hour or vice versa, it is still obligatory on him to fast, if he has the ability to do so. But if he is not able to fast, the obligation is forfieted. If it is possible for him to do qadhã later on [e.g., in other seasons or] by moving to another city, it is wãjib for him to do the qadhã. If he is unable even to do the qadhã, it is obligatory on him to pay fidya in lieu of fasting.

Question: In some cities, the sun does not rise at all for days or does not set at all for days or even more. How should we pray and fast?

Answer: As for salãt, one should, as a matter of obligatory precaution, observe the closest place that has night and day in a twenty-four hour period, then say salãt according to its timings with the intention of mutlaqa [i.e., just qurbatan ilal lah without specifying whether it is ada (on time) or qadhã (after time)].
As for fasting, it is obligatory upon you to move during the month of Ramadhãn to another city where you can observe fasting of this holy month, or move to that city after that month to perform it qadhã.

ws

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Besides you should learn something from EX-MUSLIM. Atleast he or she is respectful to other ppl from what i have seen.

Besides i stand corrected i think your English is good and dont need ENglish 101 your usage of grammar and punctuation is better than mine. So i think you ONLY NEED MANNERS 101. Sit back and go through all the post that you have ever made and take a look at them. You will see definite signs of rudeness all over the forum. If you dont believe this i can open up a thread to bash you pretty bad and discuss your rudeness. I hope you dont make me do this.

As far as respect is concerned..... there is a saying:

GIVE RESPECT TAKE RESPECT!!!!

NOTE TO MODERATORS: Please close this thread since the Question being asked has been answered unless someone has any other question relating to this topic at hand.


wasalam.

[chingari]

Sayedkk, on Oct 26 2004, 09:56 PM, said:

Salam

So if you are sitting with a sheikh, and you ask him a question like "How would we pray if we were on Venus" and he says "This is a useless question." He is rude and should not be spoken to again?

Wasalam

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Did i say fasting at PLANET VENUS!!! OR PLANET EARTH????

Boy you really have the [edit] to argue after all this!!!!. Unbelievable.

[Mods note : Please watch your language]

Edited by Abdulhujjah, 28 October 2004 - 07:38 AM.

[chingari]

Sayedkk, on Oct 26 2004, 10:03 PM, said:

Salam

Masha'Allah, you are speaking of respect, yet you come out with these types of comments. You had to ask such an easy fiqh question, yet you want to argue with me about my knowledge.

Wasalam

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Point Number 1: I didnt question about ur KNOWLEDGE BUT ABOUT UR MANNERS!!!

Point Number 2: As far as being an easy question, ITS ALL RELATIVE , i can prove it to you if you want me too!!!

Point Number 3: I havent memorized the tawsee al masael like u. I dont think memorizing tawsee makes us better muslim!!!

I dont want to argue with you any more since u will never admit your fault and i will not respond ur your replies under this thread anymore.


Wasalam.

[Hajar]

Salaam alaikum,

I believe the original question has been answered from the perspective of several mujtahids.  Since this thread has deteriorated, I will close it now.

WaSalaam, Hajar