235 replies to this topic

[Morg]

^^ there is wery little chanses if a fathers name is bakr and he calls his son abu bakr. hazrat ali werent called Bakr , still he called him ABU BAKR after the caliph.

some times names can say alot.

i mean if i call my son. ELVIS PRESLEY . then surely it is meanth for tha king. and if only ELVIS then its a wider arena.

[Aliya]

I can't believe you're making me post the OTHER people named ABU BAKR

Famous Arabs that were called Abu Bakr


In Ahl'ul Sunnah's authority work Al Isaba Volume four "Dhikr 'Abu Bakr" Ibn Barr states:

The first was Abu Bakr bin Quhafa, the second Abu Bakr bin Shuab Laisy and the third was Abu Bakr Nafee bin al Harith Saqfi.

In the Risala Taseemee'thul Isma page 4 we read that the grandson of Prophet Ilyas was called Abu Bakr.

If our opponents are still not convinced then we shall cite Sibt Ibn Jauzi al Hanafi's "Tadhkirathul Khawwas, under the Chapter "Dhikr Abu Bakr" who provides a complete list of those individuals that were called Abu Bakr along with the tribe that they belonged to:



Abu Bakr bin Abdur Rahman Mukhdhoomee

Abu Bakr bin Hamam al Hameeree

Abu Bakr bin Muhammad bin Muslim Qurshee

Abu Bakr bin Abi Maleeka al Timeemee

Abu Bakr bin Sireen

Abu Bakr bin Marwan ibn Muhammad al Thathree

Abu Bakr Younis bin Bakeer al Shaybanee

Abu Bakr al Bahili

Abu Bakr al Sakhthayanai

http://www.answering...es/en/index.php

So where's the argument that Abu Bakr, first caliph, was the ONLY one with that name???

[mulla411]

There were many abu bakr's but they were all named after the first caliph Abu Bakr . Abu Bakr was the first man to convert to Islam, and all other names muslims kept were in respect to the caliph. The argument that there were many non-muslims known as Abu Bakr is incorrect, Abu Bakr was the first one who recieved this title because of his love for camels, and was later changed to a name praised my many muslims who kept for themselves because he was the first companion of prophet Muhammad .

so whoever kept that name definitely praised Abu Bakr and kept that name and their sons name after and in love of Abu Bakr . Just like Ali did.

Edited by mulla411, 21 June 2005 - 02:52 PM.

[TheTerminator]

mulla411, on Jun 21 2005, 08:49 PM, said:

because he was the first companion of prophet Muhammad  .

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think youll find it was Bibi Khadhija , then Imam Ali .
Up until this time, bakr was still under duress of worshipping kufr idols.

[Aliya]

grandson of Prophet Ilyas was called Abu Bakr.
this doesn't predate the caliph? and even IF, for the sake of argument, the above mentioned were ALL named after the caliph, if I like someone named after someone I don't like, does that preclude me from naming my child after the one I DO like?

[mulla411]

Aliya, on Jun 21 2005, 02:53 PM, said:

grandson of Prophet Ilyas  was called Abu Bakr.
this doesn't predate the caliph? and even IF, for the sake of argument, the above mentioned were ALL named after the caliph, if I like someone named after someone I don't like, does that preclude me from naming my child after the one I DO like?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

no sister you should know that Abu Bakr was older than the prophet Muhammad and was the first companion, so name of prophet 's grandson was named after Abu Bakr . If Abu Bakr wouldve done anything bad to ali then he couldve easily changed his sons name like there were names changed even in adult ages.

would you like to call your son Abu Bakr, which is the caliphs original title, if the caliph wouldve stolen your right? no you would change it, and changing names were not a hassle back in those days and was very oftenly done.

[Aliya]

mulla, Prophet ILYAS had a grandson named Abu Bakr now since Prophet Ilyas preceded the Prophet Muhammad &HP by quite a lot, his grandson would also precede Abu Bakr, the caliph, by quite a bit, right?

[Morg]

TheTerminator, on Jun 21 2005, 02:52 PM, said:

I think youll find it was Bibi Khadhija , then Imam Ali .
Up until this time, bakr was still under duress of worshipping kufr idols. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

bib khatija was prophet wife and supported him in his couse.

hazrat ali supported hazrat mohammad saww as just a child,

while hazrat abu bakr were the first one to accept islam in full age. he was in his sences when he heard of the message , and the first one of the so called idol vorshippers who accepted islam truly he saw something in that message.

and for the name. hazrat abu bakr as siddiq was the greatest of all the abu bakrs you listed , definetely all the abu bakrs who came after the first caliph were named after him.

[Aliya]

^ and the one before, who was he named after??? How do you KNOW Abu Bakr, former idol worshipper, was better than the grandson of a Prophet &HP? and what proof do you have that they were ALL named after the caliph? You shouldn't just speak of your own opinion without proof of what you are claiming.

[TheTerminator]

Morg, on Jun 21 2005, 09:46 PM, said:

while hazrat abu bakr were the first one to accept islam in full age.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Imam Ali was baligh at the time he recited Shahada- How the heck can the only human EVER to be born in Allahs abode on Earth NOT know what he is doing?

Your fallacy for Bakr is the downfall of the nasibies.

[Firoz Ali]

TheTerminator, on Jun 21 2005, 04:17 PM, said:

Imam Ali was baligh at the time he recited Shahada- How the heck can the only human EVER to be born in Allahs abode on Earth NOT know what he is doing?

Your fallacy for Bakr is the downfall of the nasibies.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Salaam Alaiqum,

Yaa Ali Madad

Brother, lets not deviate from the mian topic of this thread -- and thats muawiay , laanatullah his real charachter

Allah Hafiz
Yaa Ali madad

Hussinyat zindabad

yazeediyat zindabad

Firoz Ali

[Morg]

TheTerminator, on Jun 21 2005, 04:17 PM, said:

Imam Ali was baligh at the time he recited Shahada- How the heck can the only human EVER to be born in Allahs abode on Earth NOT know what he is doing?

Your fallacy for Bakr is the downfall of the nasibies.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

did i say he didnt know what he is doing?
btw sunnis dont believe he were born inside kaaba. or we are not sure about this matter. but i am not a nasibi i respect hazrat ali .

hazrat ali were inside the house of prophet so he learned alot of islam already from his childhood. when hazoor pak saww got his first revelation, hazrat ali were 13 years old.

while hazrat abu bakr who were not inside the house, were 38 years old. and already old enough to maintain the previous belief. still he choose islam.

by saying that i am not degrading hazrat ali . its only what you think. and for the status of hazrat abu bakr he were the one mentiuoned in quran as "the second in the cave" and he spent his life with prophet more than hazrat hassan and hazrat hussain . still they are the ones from ahle bait. but hazrat abu bakr is the one who is promised jannah, as well as the other three claiphs

[Firoz Ali]

Salaam Alaiqum,
Yaa Ali madad

Coming back to the topic abt the real filthy pig called Muawia ibne hind Lanutullah ??proved lanati !!

Allah Hafiz
Yaa Ali Madad

Hussainyat zindabad
Yazeediyat Murdabad

[Baatil Ka Kaatil]

I know a morrocan who sells hasish by the name of 'Father Bakr' in Ladbroke Grove - Does this mean bakr used to sell hashish?

[Morg]

^^ maybe his father named him after him, but newer though of him to sell hashish.

i mean like , saddam hussain, surely he bears the name of a martyr. does that makes him good?

[Baatil Ka Kaatil]

^Proving that a name can have no significance reflecting on the reasoning of why one is called what he is, even if Ali (as)'s kids were all called abu bakr - would it make a difference?

[Matami-Shah]

Baatil Ka Kaatil, on Jun 23 2005, 10:31 AM, said:

I know a morrocan who sells hasish by the name of 'Father Bakr' in Ladbroke Grove - Does this mean bakr used to sell hashish?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Morg]

Baatil Ka Kaatil, on Jun 23 2005, 05:32 AM, said:

^Proving that a name can have no significance reflecting on the reasoning of why one is called what he is, even if Ali (as)'s kids were all called abu bakr - would it make a difference?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

you didnt prove anything.

calling one after another person is to make honour on the name. tell me is there any abu bakr who is more famous than the first caliph? then im sure, 99,999% of abu bakrs are named after abu bakr after his death.

[Baatil Ka Kaatil]

Morg, on Jun 23 2005, 11:09 AM, said:

you didnt prove anything.

calling one after another person is to make honour on the name. tell me is there any abu bakr who is more famous than the first caliph? then im sure, 99,999% of abu bakrs are named after abu bakr after his death.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In Ladbroke Grove there is. Just near the fire station - A.K.A Fireman Bam.

[Changed]

Morg, on Jun 21 2005, 01:49 PM, said:

now 2 were named omar, one abu bakr one othman and one obaidullah

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What significance does the name Obaidullah shows here?

That bastered Obaidullah ibne Ziad ( La'nat La'nat La'nat) is highly accursed both in Shia and Sunni faith.

[Firoz Ali]

Salaam Alaiqum,
Yaa Ali madad

Coming back to the topic abt the real filthy pig called Muawia ibne hind Lanutullah ??proved lanati !!

Allah Hafiz
Yaa Ali Madad

Hussainyat zindabad
Yazeediyat Murdabad

[Abdaal]

TheTerminator, on Jun 21 2005, 04:17 PM, said:

Imam Ali was baligh at the time he recited Shahada-

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Bring me a Shia hadith for ur calim.

[Morg]

^^ i think hazrat ali were 8 years of age.

[YaMola]

Well i am here after a long time ... and i can see there has been a lengthy discussion over the topic of "NAMES", that names dont effect the character of a person ............. Yes, i agree with that. But You people need a little bit explaination about it.

The concept behind Naming human beings is not like the concept behind naming other things.The name of a Human Being is actually a Message , a message from a story or a message about a person or a quality of something.

For example :-
My name is Faizan-e-Ali .... Meaning >>> The Blessing of Ali
Now this doesnt mean that I am (literaly) the blessing of a person named ALI ...... But this name is a message that, there was a person whose name was ALI and he had Blessing.

One of my sister's name is Tatheer Fatima .... This name doesnt mean that she IS the tatheer of some one named Fatima .... it is a message that there was someone named fatima who had tatheer.

Christians also name themselves as Micheal, Gabreal ....... thier names also point to a message that "There were/are angels named Micheal & Gabreal"

Similarly if someone is named Muawia, it doesnt mean that he is a Barking Dog/b1tch.As no one was named Muawia Before Muawia Ibne Hind .... so every person's name being muawia points to that Muawua Ibne Hind ... with the message that "There was a Dog, Who used to Bark" ...

[YaMola]

Continue ......

And there is no big deal with some one named Omer or AbuBakr ......... They also have a message and point to something . Any person having name Omer just has a message that " there was a Omer" ... now there isnt only one omer Ibne Khataab in this whole universe ...... Even one of my relatives Has a name "Omer Bahadur".... meaning >>> "Brave Omer" . i asked him where his name points at .... he replyed "The Brave Omer ...... The martyr of Karbala" . and yes this is true ..... one of the 72 martyrs of karbala was named Omer ....... Omer and usman are very ancient names ... some of the successors and sons of the Messengers far before prophet mohammad had names like Omer and Othman... i will look into the tawareekh and will provide you the exact persons.

Quote

i think hazrat ali  were 8 years of age.

Well .... Hz ali never embraced islam ...... because he was born as a muslm and he knew his jobs from the very begining ...... Well lets put this discussion aside ...... lets suppose i Believe That Hz ali embraced islam at the age of 8 or 9 or 10 ....... then you have tobelieve in one of the following.

1. Hz Ali embraced Islam at these ages, But as we know that the mind of a normal person at these ages doesnt has enough ability to judge and take such importat Decisions for his life ..... this case wasnt with HZ Ali(as) .... Hz Ali wasnt just a normal person ......... Hz ali was Naturaly Special from his childhood.

(Once you come to believe that Hz ALi wasnt normal, and was special from his childhood, it isnt much far for you to believe in the status of Hz Ali Higher than the First three Chaliphs)

2. Hz Ali was a normal person ..... and he embraced islam when he was young enough to make such decisions and was 18+ .

( If you choose this one,then it means u have changed all the historic calenders ...... and it will prove that u dont want hz Ali(as) being special and higher in status than the 3 stooges.

Give me your answer ................ Morg !

[MOD NOTE: Edited for spelling. Embrassed looked too much like embarrassed, when it was clear the word meant was embraced. Didn't want people to get confused if they read it fast.]

Edited by YaMola, 29 June 2005 - 10:35 AM.