Edited by bilqisAzZahra, 25 November 2004 - 04:37 PM.
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, Aug 01 2004 11:27 PM
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#2
Sister Zaynab
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Truly I have turned to You and truly I do bow (to You) in Islam.
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Posted 02 August 2004 - 12:16 AM
When I first converted, I'm sure I deffinitely would have said yes. Because I was nearly 31 and verrrry independent when we first met, and so I HAD to make all my own decisions. Butttt, now that I'm NOT alone anymore (ALHAMDULILLAH!!)
, I am grateful to my hubby for steering me back in the right direction if I stray off a bit.I would love to wear chador some day, but I'm afraid if I wore it around here it would deffinitely fall into that "clothing of fame" category. Believe me, I'm one of three Muslim women 'round here--and one of the other two always gets mistaken for being me, and I get mistaken for being her, cos there AREN'T any others around, LOLLL, especially in public places (they own a gas station)--and people deffinitely notice me enough already. (She and I are both American converts, and the third family is from Pakistan.)
BUTTTTT, Insha'Allah, if I'm ever able to work at HOME, instead of in public, and/or move to Iraq with him (Insha'Allah!!!) some day, I will DEFFINITELY wear the chador. As it is now, I nearly always wear a loose jilbab in public (w/scarf of course), and would only wear at least a knee-length loose top and loose pants otherwise.
ANYWAY (sorry I ramble, I'm a little tired, LOLLL)... As for nudging me in the right direction, Ali does a great job of that, asking me if I prayed, letting me know if something I bought is not appropriate (in a nice way of course) to wear in public (not loose enuf etc.), making sure we nearly always have halaal meat in the house (I would not TOUCH anything else ever again, it's unthinkable to me anymore!!), helping me find good Islamic books by taking me to Dearborn, MI occasionally to shop (it's a 3 1/2 hour drive! LOL), etc.
Okay, NEXT!!
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Edited by Sister Zaynab, 02 August 2004 - 12:21 AM.
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#3
Hajar
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Posted 02 August 2004 - 12:46 AM
I think I clicked on no too soon.
After I read your post, I feel differently. I don't think I need my husband to act all bossy. I am an adult and know how to behave and what to wear. I wouldn't like my husband to be oppressive, even if he thought he was encouraging correct behavior. There is nothing in Islam that says a woman has to wear a certain type of clothing or that she can not speak to a non Mahram. Of course we must wear hijab, and unnecessary chatting can cause problems. But normal hijab and necessary or even some social talking isn't haraam. I don't think wearing a particular type of clothing, or not talking to men at all, is going to make anyone the best Muslim woman in the world. If a woman is treated too harshly, or strictly, she may rebel go the other way. It's hard to live in a prison.
WaSalaam, Hajar
And this life of the world is nothing but a sport and a play; and as for the next abode, that most surely is the life-- did they but know! Quran 29.64
#4
Batool
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Posted 02 August 2004 - 12:58 AM
The question that you asked is if your husband wants you to strive to be the best muslim then.......in that case I wouldn't feel oppressed. If he forced me to behave in a certain way against my will, then I would.
I beleive in encouragement, and I think spouses can and should encourage one another towards Islamic behaviour but if that encouragement turns into force or becomes resented to the point of feeling oppressed, then it will do more harm then good.
One more thing is that the line between 'encouragement' and 'force' i beleive can be pretty fine at times. For example if one spouse strictly avoids music and the other one doesn't, then the spouse that avoids does have to be quite assertive that music isn't played in their presence, other spouse might view this as oppression? This does sometimes go for other rules aswell, in order to maintain your own religiousness or teach children by example you might have to insist on certain behaviours and rules for everyone in the family.
wa salaam
Syeda
The Messenger of Allah declared: "It seems the time approaches when I
shall be called away (by Allah) and I shall answer that call. I am
leaving for you two precious things and if you adhere both of them,
you will never go astray after me. They are the Book of Allah and my
progeny, that is my Ahlul-Bayt. The two shall never separate from each
other until they come to me by the Pool (of Paradise)."
shall be called away (by Allah) and I shall answer that call. I am
leaving for you two precious things and if you adhere both of them,
you will never go astray after me. They are the Book of Allah and my
progeny, that is my Ahlul-Bayt. The two shall never separate from each
other until they come to me by the Pool (of Paradise)."
#5
Gypsy
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#7
AspiringUKHTI
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Posted 02 August 2004 - 09:09 AM
tranquility, on Aug 2 2004, 07:52 AM, said:
Hajar, on Aug 2 2004, 12:46 AM, said:
I think I clicked on no too soon.
After I read your post, I feel differently. I don't think I need my husband to act all bossy. I am an adult and know how to behave and what to wear. I wouldn't like my husband to be oppressive, even if he thought he was encouraging correct behavior. There is nothing in Islam that says a woman has to wear a certain type of clothing or that she can not speak to a non Mahram. Of course we must wear hijab, and unnecessary chatting can cause problems. But normal hijab and necessary or even some social talking isn't haraam. I don't think wearing a particular type of clothing, or not talking to men at all, is going to make anyone the best Muslim woman in the world. If a woman is treated too harshly, or strictly, she may rebel go the other way. It's hard to live in a prison.
WaSalaam, Hajar
You are not allowed to talk to a na-mahram unless it is really necessary. I knew that since i became a muslim. There are strict rules for 'communication' with na-mahram.
When Imam Khomeini ® was in France and his wife came to him not wearing a chador (She did have full hijab, but wasn't using the chador for that). The Imam ® said to her to wear the chador because it was better for her.
Question:
Is it haram for a women to laugh or even smile in front of namahram men?
Answer:
It is Haraam for a man or woman to do anything in front of a namahram that could lead to any thoughts or actions of lust. If the smiling or laughing, in any manner, could lead the namahram to think in a lustful manner, then it becomes Haraam.
Question:
Please could you tell me is it haram to talk to boys as friends? and if so why is this.
Answer:
I am assuming you are a girl and that the question is about talking to boys who are non-mahram to you. It is haraam to talk loosely and freely and take them as friends. It gives way to formation of complicated and illicit relationships. The only permission granted is to talk (provided your attire is Islamic) to members of the opposite sex (in your case, boys) only that much which is deemed necessary. Any extra talk that could be termed unnecessary may fall in the category of sin.
Questions answered by Shaikh Mustafa Jaffer.
I think Hajar is on point.
Edited by AspiringUKHTI, 02 August 2004 - 09:10 AM.
#8
Hajar
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Posted 02 August 2004 - 12:25 PM
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You are not allowed to talk to a na-mahram unless it is really necessary. I knew that since i became a muslim. There are strict rules for 'communication' with na-mahram.
Salaam alaikum,
It is not haraam to talk to non Mahrams, as long as the people keep their limits. It is also not required to wear a chador, or any particular type of garment.
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"The only permission granted is to talk (provided your attire is Islamic) to members of the opposite sex (in your case, boys) only that much which is deemed necessary. Any extra talk that could be termed unnecessary may fall in the category of sin."
From this what do we understand? That you are not allowed to talk to a na-mahram unless it's really needed (something important), and it will be a sin if you talk for other reasons. Doesn't sound "loose" to me at all, in fact it's really solid.
From this what do we understand? That you are not allowed to talk to a na-mahram unless it's really needed (something important), and it will be a sin if you talk for other reasons. Doesn't sound "loose" to me at all, in fact it's really solid.
You left out some of this.
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I am assuming you are a girl and that the question is about talking to boys who are non-mahram to you. It is haraam to talk loosely and freely and take them as friends. It gives way to formation of complicated and illicit relationships. The only permission granted is to talk (provided your attire is Islamic) to members of the opposite sex (in your case, boys) only that much which is deemed necessary. Any extra talk that could be termed unnecessary may fall in the category of sin.
The only haraam mentioned is talking loosely and freely, ie, not within the proper limits. The last sentence says any extra talk that could be termed unnecessary may fall into the catagory of sin. It means there is a risk of falling into sin, not that it is actually a sin.
Not long ago I was grocery shopping. The local Sheikh saw me there and came up and started talking to me. What was I suposed to do, run from the store like a scared rabbit?
No, I returned his salaams. He asked how my husband was and I answered him. Then he asked me to give my husband his salaams. I said I would and the conversation ended.Was this conversation necessary? Was it "really needed (something important)"? No, it wasn't. But there was nothing wrong with this conversation.
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I wonder if the sisters who say these things are loose, say that because they themselves have male friends, or talk to males. Just like girls with no hijab that keep claiming hijab is not needed in Islam, or that it is a "cultural thing".
You really shouldn't wonder about things like this. Being suspicious can be a sin. Try not to assume that you are the only one who knows anything or practices Islam, just because people have different opinions from you. This can be dangerous. You could be totally wrong and doing an injustice to people.
[49.12] O you who believe! avoid most of suspicion, for surely suspicion in some cases is a sin, and do not spy nor let some of you backbite others. Does one of you like to eat the flesh of his dead brother? But you abhor it; and be careful of (your duty to) Allah, surely Allah is Oft-returning (to mercy), Merciful.
WaSalaam, Hajar
And this life of the world is nothing but a sport and a play; and as for the next abode, that most surely is the life-- did they but know! Quran 29.64
#9
Ruby
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- Interests:art, writing, religion, spirituality, reading<br /><br />O' my Allah! Thou art the most attached to Thy lovers and the most ready to assist those who trust in Thee. Thou seest them in their concealments, knowest whatever is in their consciences, and art aware of the extent of their intelligence. Consequently, their secrets are open to Thee and their hearts are eager from Thee. If loneliness bores them, Thy remembrance gives them solace. If distresses befall them, they beseech Thy protection, because they know that the reins of affairs are in Thy hands, and that their movements depend upon Thy commands .<br /><br />Nahjul Balagha: Sermon 225: Supplication.
Posted 02 August 2004 - 01:08 PM
I wouldn't feel oppressed, because that's a strong word to use. Although I'd probably respect his wishes as long as they're within the boundaries of Islam, I need to still be able to exercise my free will and right to think... no one prefers a control freak, right?
"What do I say to the One who knows the sigh before it leaves the heart? What do I say to the One who can see the glimmer of light in the midst of the darkness in my mind? What do I say to the One who indulges the pretenses of my intellect but rekindles the truth in my heart? What do I say to the One who observes my ostentatious pretext take me to heights of self- deception, but every single time receives me when i fall apart. What do I say to the One who knows the end before the start?"
#10
Hajar
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Posted 02 August 2004 - 06:12 PM
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You have the risala of Ayatollah Khomeini ®, what does it say in that about this? If you don't mind checking.
Salaam alaikum,
There is a section on looking at non Mahrams, but there isn't anything on talking to them.
The Quran does have something about women talking to non Mahrams. It's the aya addressing the wives of the Prophet(pbuh). The rules for them were more strict than for other women, for example they had to remain in their homes after his death and couldn't remarry. But this aya didn't tell them not to talk to men, it only said not to make your voice soft when talking to them. The commentaries say that this aya applies to other women as well. So it is implied that women can talk to men, so long as they do so in an appropriate manner.
[33.32] O wives of the Prophet! you are not like any other of the women; If you will be on your guard, then be not soft in (your) speech, lest he in whose heart is a disease yearn; and speak a good word.
WaSalaam, Hajar
And this life of the world is nothing but a sport and a play; and as for the next abode, that most surely is the life-- did they but know! Quran 29.64
#11
kareema
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Posted 03 August 2004 - 11:19 AM
I voted before I even read the first message, lol... I answered "it depends". I mean it really depends on what my husband would ask from me. If he would ask me to do something which is totally against my personality or ability such as asking me to talk or think opposite of what I feel.
Those examples of clothing are not a big problem for me because I've already used niqab for some time now from my own choise and I've had to fight for the right to use it with many tears! (May Allah bless all sisters who encouraged me on this forum and gave me some proofs from the shia scholars.) Alhamdulillah for everything. Also I usually ask the permission of my husband before I go out and tell everything if I had to talk to some non-mahram. Talking to non-mahram is not something that I would call a right - sometimes it's just necessary and that's all.
I would feel much worse if my husband didn't care at all about where I go or who I talk to. And yes, I want him to protect me and my honor even from myself if I didn't know what's best for me. The problem is more like that I would feel oppressed or insulted if my husband asked me to take of my niqab or if I felt in any way that he feels ashamed of my extreme style.
The least that I expect from my husband is to appreciate that I cover myself to keep myself safe from the fitna of other men. I cover myself because I want to keep myself for my own husband and really I would feel oppressed if my husband wouldn't appreciate that.
(this is just my opinion)
Fii amanillah.
Edited by kareema, 09 August 2004 - 04:38 PM.
#12
Gypsy
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Posted 08 August 2004 - 09:19 PM
tranquility, on Aug 2 2004, 03:19 PM, said:
Quote
Not long ago I was grocery shopping. The local Sheikh saw me there and came up and started talking to me. What was I suposed to do, run from the store like a scared rabbit? No, I returned his salaams. He asked how my husband was and I answered him. Then he asked me to give my husband his salaams. I said I would and the conversation ended.
Was this conversation necessary? Was it "really needed (something important)"? No, it wasn't. But there was nothing wrong with this conversation.
No, I returned his salaams. He asked how my husband was and I answered him. Then he asked me to give my husband his salaams. I said I would and the conversation ended.Was this conversation necessary? Was it "really needed (something important)"? No, it wasn't. But there was nothing wrong with this conversation.
No, the conversation was not needed. But it is seen as, 'okay' if for example your local imam says salam and talks to everyone. Let me give you an example, in Iran you better not go say salam to someones religious wife on the street or you'll risk being in deep trouble. Though if the local imam or some other respected member of the community does it, it is seen as perfectly okay. I (me) have no reason to talk to you on the street. But it is better for your sheikh to greet everyone and maybe do a small appropriate conversation with them, and they do that allot.
PS: Lemme just add something, what i mean is that it shouldn't be encouraged. Can someone explain to me what other reasons than friendship there is to talk to a person? (excluding 'professional' reasons, like at the bank, marriage or whatever).
Bear in mind that in the court of Yazed, there was no need for Zayneb(sa) to defend herself because, in her present she had the Holy Imam Zayn Al Abidin
. It was unnecessary. Again, what I am trying to reiterate is that, the only person who can be judge of the situation is the person him/herself
#13
Umm Zaynalabidin
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Posted 12 August 2004 - 04:56 AM
I dont think i"d have any right to feel oppressed if he applies amr bilmarouf wa nahy anil munkar, until he does it within the correct Islamic adab, yaani he is not ordering me, but instead of it sits with me and gives a kind explanation of every "why".
Also he must have patience and not shout at me or getting angry if i am doing something wrong..if he is nice, then its truly a blessing to have such spouse, who really wants the best for u for the Aaakhira, mashallah.
Fi aman Allah
[COLOR=blue]"Call on me; I will answer your prayer! (Surah Al Ghaafir 40:60)"
"How plenty in numbers are the lessons to be taken and how less in numbers are those who learn lessons."
Nahj Al-Balaagha
O ye who believe! Let not a folk deride a folk who may be better than they (are), not let women (deride) women who may be better than they are; neither defame one another, nor insult one another by nicknames. Bad is the name of lewdness after faith. And whoso turneth not in repentance, such are evil-doers.
O ye who believe! Shun much suspicion; for lo! some suspicion is a crime. And spy not, neither backbite one another. Would one of you love to eat the flesh of his dead brother? Ye abhor that (so abhor the other)! And keep your duty (to Allah). Lo! Allah is Relenting, Merciful.
[49:11-12]
"How plenty in numbers are the lessons to be taken and how less in numbers are those who learn lessons."
Nahj Al-Balaagha
O ye who believe! Let not a folk deride a folk who may be better than they (are), not let women (deride) women who may be better than they are; neither defame one another, nor insult one another by nicknames. Bad is the name of lewdness after faith. And whoso turneth not in repentance, such are evil-doers.
O ye who believe! Shun much suspicion; for lo! some suspicion is a crime. And spy not, neither backbite one another. Would one of you love to eat the flesh of his dead brother? Ye abhor that (so abhor the other)! And keep your duty (to Allah). Lo! Allah is Relenting, Merciful.
[49:11-12]
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