Yes, I can tell you the philosophy behind the Ismailian notion of Imamate.
We believe Imam is always present in the world to offer guidance to his followers. When I say present, I mean he can be seen, he can act directly in the world, he sends regular guidance to his followers and guide them on spiritual and wordly matters.
Imam must also be present to guide the believer toward spiritual enlightenment - toward knowledge of the Self. Imam also safeguards the individual's right to interpretation.
Imam is present as the supreme authority on earth appointed by Allah. He is the single arbiter, the infallible teacher.
Your 12 Imams, in their lifetime could perhaps fulfil the above funcitons....but I see teh belief in 12 Imams...and occultation as illogical, because the 12th Imam cannot provide any practical guidance to his followers.
Plus..if the point is only to preserve the Sunnah of Muhammad, then why not Imam Ali go into occultation? or Imam Husayn?
It makes no difference how many Imams came for you because one of them goes into hiding anyway..and teh community is left without the infallible Imam at a point in time.
do you guys see where i am going with this?
-
-
0
shia ithna asheri" and "shia ismaili
Started by
syed_shia
, Jun 20 2004 05:20 PM
-
This topic is locked
69 replies to this topic
#51
Ismailite
-
- Advanced Members
-
- 446 posts
Member
Posted 24 June 2004 - 03:43 PM
Our spiritual understandings, like those of your Academy, are rooted, of course, in ancient teachings. In the case of Islam, there are two touchstones which I have long treasured and sought to apply. The first affirms the unity of the human race, as expressed in the Holy Qu'ran where God, as revealed through the Holy Prophet Muhammad, may peace be upon him, says the following:
“O mankind! Be careful of your duty to your Lord, Who created you from a single soul and from it created its mate and from the twain hath spread abroad a multitude of men and women.” (4:1)
This remarkable verse speaks both of the inherent diversity of mankind -- the “multitude” -- and of the unity of mankind -- the “single soul created by a single Creator” -- a spiritual legacy which distinguishes the human race from all other forms of life.
The second passage I would cite today is from the first hereditary Imam of the Shi'a community Hazrat Ali. As you know, the Shi'a divided from the Sunni after the death of the Prophet Muhammad. Hazrat Ali, the cousin and son-in-law of the Prophet, was, in Shi'a belief, named by the Prophet to be the Legitimate Authority for the interpretation of the faith. For the Shi'a today, all over the world, he is regarded as the first Imam.
“O mankind! Be careful of your duty to your Lord, Who created you from a single soul and from it created its mate and from the twain hath spread abroad a multitude of men and women.” (4:1)
This remarkable verse speaks both of the inherent diversity of mankind -- the “multitude” -- and of the unity of mankind -- the “single soul created by a single Creator” -- a spiritual legacy which distinguishes the human race from all other forms of life.
The second passage I would cite today is from the first hereditary Imam of the Shi'a community Hazrat Ali. As you know, the Shi'a divided from the Sunni after the death of the Prophet Muhammad. Hazrat Ali, the cousin and son-in-law of the Prophet, was, in Shi'a belief, named by the Prophet to be the Legitimate Authority for the interpretation of the faith. For the Shi'a today, all over the world, he is regarded as the first Imam.
- His Highness the Aga Khan, 49th Hereditary Imam of the Shia Imami Ismaili Muslims
(Address by His Highness the Aga Khan to the Tutzing Evangelical Academy Upon Receiving the "Tolerance" Award, 20 May 2006, Tutzing, Germany)
#52
Ismailite
-
- Advanced Members
-
- 446 posts
Member
Posted 24 June 2004 - 03:45 PM
The miracle of the Imamate is that Imams are human beings..yet they are the mazhar of Allah on earth.
Through the human form, mankind and created beings can develop a spiritual relationship with the Imam. If Imam is unseen..then one cannot develop any sort of relationship with him.
And without a spiritual relationship with a murshid...then there can be no relationship with Allah.
Through the human form, mankind and created beings can develop a spiritual relationship with the Imam. If Imam is unseen..then one cannot develop any sort of relationship with him.
And without a spiritual relationship with a murshid...then there can be no relationship with Allah.
Our spiritual understandings, like those of your Academy, are rooted, of course, in ancient teachings. In the case of Islam, there are two touchstones which I have long treasured and sought to apply. The first affirms the unity of the human race, as expressed in the Holy Qu'ran where God, as revealed through the Holy Prophet Muhammad, may peace be upon him, says the following:
“O mankind! Be careful of your duty to your Lord, Who created you from a single soul and from it created its mate and from the twain hath spread abroad a multitude of men and women.” (4:1)
This remarkable verse speaks both of the inherent diversity of mankind -- the “multitude” -- and of the unity of mankind -- the “single soul created by a single Creator” -- a spiritual legacy which distinguishes the human race from all other forms of life.
The second passage I would cite today is from the first hereditary Imam of the Shi'a community Hazrat Ali. As you know, the Shi'a divided from the Sunni after the death of the Prophet Muhammad. Hazrat Ali, the cousin and son-in-law of the Prophet, was, in Shi'a belief, named by the Prophet to be the Legitimate Authority for the interpretation of the faith. For the Shi'a today, all over the world, he is regarded as the first Imam.
“O mankind! Be careful of your duty to your Lord, Who created you from a single soul and from it created its mate and from the twain hath spread abroad a multitude of men and women.” (4:1)
This remarkable verse speaks both of the inherent diversity of mankind -- the “multitude” -- and of the unity of mankind -- the “single soul created by a single Creator” -- a spiritual legacy which distinguishes the human race from all other forms of life.
The second passage I would cite today is from the first hereditary Imam of the Shi'a community Hazrat Ali. As you know, the Shi'a divided from the Sunni after the death of the Prophet Muhammad. Hazrat Ali, the cousin and son-in-law of the Prophet, was, in Shi'a belief, named by the Prophet to be the Legitimate Authority for the interpretation of the faith. For the Shi'a today, all over the world, he is regarded as the first Imam.
- His Highness the Aga Khan, 49th Hereditary Imam of the Shia Imami Ismaili Muslims
(Address by His Highness the Aga Khan to the Tutzing Evangelical Academy Upon Receiving the "Tolerance" Award, 20 May 2006, Tutzing, Germany)
#53
syed_shia
-
- Advanced Members
-
- 2,376 posts
Muslim
Posted 24 June 2004 - 03:57 PM
salaam brother.....
But where did the prophet eva say that there shall be more then 12 imams?
and, the 12th imam is in occulation,, and when he went into occulation he had representatives... the representatives can be used as a guidance too, as they are the next best example to follow to derive the sunnah of the prophet after the infallible imam... and this will continue till imam mehdi will reappear when the world is filled with corruption and injustice...
notice that he will reappear when theres corruption and injustice, because why? because there was no infallible imam psycically 24/7 and when he comes again, it will all disappear again,,..
So what abt god? god who is unseen guides who he wants. and whats istikhara, isnt that a guidance too???? and theres a possibilty of contacting imam of our time, the great ayatolah tabatei for example has met him and his young son at the age of 5 has met imam mehdi too.... why? because they were the best ranking religous ppl at this time....
salaam
Quote
It makes no difference how many Imams came for you because one of them goes into hiding anyway..and teh community is left without the infallible Imam at a point in time.
But where did the prophet eva say that there shall be more then 12 imams?
and, the 12th imam is in occulation,, and when he went into occulation he had representatives... the representatives can be used as a guidance too, as they are the next best example to follow to derive the sunnah of the prophet after the infallible imam... and this will continue till imam mehdi will reappear when the world is filled with corruption and injustice...
notice that he will reappear when theres corruption and injustice, because why? because there was no infallible imam psycically 24/7 and when he comes again, it will all disappear again,,..
Quote
If Imam is unseen..then one cannot develop any sort of relationship with him.
So what abt god? god who is unseen guides who he wants. and whats istikhara, isnt that a guidance too???? and theres a possibilty of contacting imam of our time, the great ayatolah tabatei for example has met him and his young son at the age of 5 has met imam mehdi too.... why? because they were the best ranking religous ppl at this time....
salaam
SHAKIR 5.55 : Only Allah is your Vali and His Messenger and those who believe, those who keep up prayers and pay the poor-rate while they bow.
SHAKIR 5.56 : And whoever takes Allah and His messenger and those who believe for a guardian, then surely the party of Allah are they that shall be triumphant.
SHAKIR 5.56 : And whoever takes Allah and His messenger and those who believe for a guardian, then surely the party of Allah are they that shall be triumphant.
#54
Akoba
-
- Banned
-
- 13 posts
Posted 24 June 2004 - 07:17 PM
Though both are out of Islam, but Ithna Ashria are the worst for their Conspiracies and Mischief Mong.
#55
Bro.Djibril
-
- Advanced Members
-
- 1,081 posts
Member
- Interests:Islam Original, world religions, world history, physics, and general reading.
Posted 24 June 2004 - 09:43 PM
Akoba, on Jun 24 2004, 07:17 PM, said:
Though both are out of Islam, but Ithna Ashria are the worst for their Conspiracies and Mischief Mong.
Brother, Allah gave you common sense as well as the use of all your other faculties, please use them. Allah's first revelation to the Him (S.A.W.) was "iqra". Reading and contemplation produces an atmosphere of reason. And there are too many ahadith that discuss how Allah created reason first and subjected it to the command of man. Reach your potential.
May Allah bless us all and help us to overcome ourselves.
Wa Salaam,
Djibril
"Whosoever died in love of the Household of Muhammad has died a martyr; Whosoever died in love of the Household of Muhammad has died in forgiveness; Whosoever died in love of the Household of Muhammad has died a believer and in the perfection of his faith." az-Zamakshari quoting the beloved Messenger S.A.W.
"Do not argue with the contentious, nor provoke them with words. Pause before those who interrupt and give way to those who verbally attack you. Sleep a night before speaking. For the unrestrained person is like a storm which bursts forth like a flame in a pile of straw." Selections from the Husia (Sacred Wisdom of Ancient Egypt) translated by Maulana Karenga
"Do not argue with the contentious, nor provoke them with words. Pause before those who interrupt and give way to those who verbally attack you. Sleep a night before speaking. For the unrestrained person is like a storm which bursts forth like a flame in a pile of straw." Selections from the Husia (Sacred Wisdom of Ancient Egypt) translated by Maulana Karenga
#56
Kufrproof
-
- Advanced Members
- 27 posts
Posted 24 June 2004 - 11:25 PM
As-Salaamu Aleikum jami'an
LOL. What heck is this?!
Your Imam is a British puppet?! 
Where is the revolutionary fervor?! Where is the militant zeal that used to be the staple of Ismailism?! An infalliable guide working hand in hand with an opressive regime? I don't think so! If this is the course modern day Ismailism has taken no wonder why you have become the laughing stock of Shi'ism in particular and Islam in general.
LOL. Right on bro! Agree 100% I dig that line by the way i.e. "who gives an Abdul Wahhab". Hope you don't mind if I borrow it from you. LOL
Quote
Imam Karim Shah is called Prince because the Queen of England bestowed the title, "His Highness" upon the Imam when he ascended to the Throne of Imamate in 1957
LOL. What heck is this?!
Your Imam is a British puppet?! Where is the revolutionary fervor?! Where is the militant zeal that used to be the staple of Ismailism?! An infalliable guide working hand in hand with an opressive regime? I don't think so! If this is the course modern day Ismailism has taken no wonder why you have become the laughing stock of Shi'ism in particular and Islam in general.
Quote
Who gives an Abdul Wahhab about the Queen of England... her existence is neglible and has no significance in Islam.
LOL. Right on bro! Agree 100% I dig that line by the way i.e. "who gives an Abdul Wahhab". Hope you don't mind if I borrow it from you. LOL
#57
Ismailite
-
- Advanced Members
-
- 446 posts
Member
Posted 25 June 2004 - 12:47 AM
"and, the 12th imam is in occulation,, and when he went into occulation he had representatives... the representatives can be used as a guidance too, as they are the next best example to follow to derive the sunnah of the prophet after the infallible imam... and this will continue till imam mehdi will reappear when the world is filled with corruption and injustice... "
- why should we settle for second-best? why should mankind settle for FALLIBLE MEN as their leaders?
- why should the world be filled with injustice and corruption?
- why not keep Imam present in the world and revealed to his followers?
- isnt it unfar to those living in the occultation period when others got to live in the period of the Imams lifetimes?
"notice that he will reappear when theres corruption and injustice, because why? because there was no infallible imam psycically 24/7 and when he comes again, it will all disappear again,,.."
- but this IS the VERY PROBLEM. you have NO IMAM physically 24/7!
- that is a HUGE problem. Becuase...the thing that distinguishes Sunnis and Shias is the question of the Imam. And now you admit that you have no Imam physically!
Sunnis say that Prophet Muhammad still exists spiritually. You say Imam Mahdi exists spiritually. Sufis have had visions of Muhammad....you say your ppl have had visions of Mahdi. WHERE IS THE DIFFERENCE!?
- Sunnis and Twelver Shias follow their scholars..NOT the Imams!
- as far as practicality is concerned..there is NO DIFFERENCE between Twelver Shias and Sunnis.
you both are LACKING in the presence of the INFALLIBLE IMAM!
Before you go out and shout about our manifest Imams being british puppets and asking for militant Ismailism...
Let me tell you that if only you were only aware and open-minded, you would see the work our Imamate institutions are doing in this world.
www.akdn.org - the Aga Khan Development Network
this is an international philanthropic organization set up by the Ismaili Imamate.
if only you knew how many intellectuals, politicians, world leaders, and such praise our Imam for his great services to humanity...
this is the REAL JIHAD being waged by Allah to better the status of mankind - His Greatest Creation!
You guys can wine all you want....in the end, neither the Ismailies nor the Imam require your approval.
- why should we settle for second-best? why should mankind settle for FALLIBLE MEN as their leaders?
- why should the world be filled with injustice and corruption?
- why not keep Imam present in the world and revealed to his followers?
- isnt it unfar to those living in the occultation period when others got to live in the period of the Imams lifetimes?
"notice that he will reappear when theres corruption and injustice, because why? because there was no infallible imam psycically 24/7 and when he comes again, it will all disappear again,,.."
- but this IS the VERY PROBLEM. you have NO IMAM physically 24/7!
- that is a HUGE problem. Becuase...the thing that distinguishes Sunnis and Shias is the question of the Imam. And now you admit that you have no Imam physically!
Sunnis say that Prophet Muhammad still exists spiritually. You say Imam Mahdi exists spiritually. Sufis have had visions of Muhammad....you say your ppl have had visions of Mahdi. WHERE IS THE DIFFERENCE!?
- Sunnis and Twelver Shias follow their scholars..NOT the Imams!
- as far as practicality is concerned..there is NO DIFFERENCE between Twelver Shias and Sunnis.
you both are LACKING in the presence of the INFALLIBLE IMAM!
Before you go out and shout about our manifest Imams being british puppets and asking for militant Ismailism...
Let me tell you that if only you were only aware and open-minded, you would see the work our Imamate institutions are doing in this world.
www.akdn.org - the Aga Khan Development Network
this is an international philanthropic organization set up by the Ismaili Imamate.
if only you knew how many intellectuals, politicians, world leaders, and such praise our Imam for his great services to humanity...
this is the REAL JIHAD being waged by Allah to better the status of mankind - His Greatest Creation!
You guys can wine all you want....in the end, neither the Ismailies nor the Imam require your approval.
Our spiritual understandings, like those of your Academy, are rooted, of course, in ancient teachings. In the case of Islam, there are two touchstones which I have long treasured and sought to apply. The first affirms the unity of the human race, as expressed in the Holy Qu'ran where God, as revealed through the Holy Prophet Muhammad, may peace be upon him, says the following:
“O mankind! Be careful of your duty to your Lord, Who created you from a single soul and from it created its mate and from the twain hath spread abroad a multitude of men and women.” (4:1)
This remarkable verse speaks both of the inherent diversity of mankind -- the “multitude” -- and of the unity of mankind -- the “single soul created by a single Creator” -- a spiritual legacy which distinguishes the human race from all other forms of life.
The second passage I would cite today is from the first hereditary Imam of the Shi'a community Hazrat Ali. As you know, the Shi'a divided from the Sunni after the death of the Prophet Muhammad. Hazrat Ali, the cousin and son-in-law of the Prophet, was, in Shi'a belief, named by the Prophet to be the Legitimate Authority for the interpretation of the faith. For the Shi'a today, all over the world, he is regarded as the first Imam.
“O mankind! Be careful of your duty to your Lord, Who created you from a single soul and from it created its mate and from the twain hath spread abroad a multitude of men and women.” (4:1)
This remarkable verse speaks both of the inherent diversity of mankind -- the “multitude” -- and of the unity of mankind -- the “single soul created by a single Creator” -- a spiritual legacy which distinguishes the human race from all other forms of life.
The second passage I would cite today is from the first hereditary Imam of the Shi'a community Hazrat Ali. As you know, the Shi'a divided from the Sunni after the death of the Prophet Muhammad. Hazrat Ali, the cousin and son-in-law of the Prophet, was, in Shi'a belief, named by the Prophet to be the Legitimate Authority for the interpretation of the faith. For the Shi'a today, all over the world, he is regarded as the first Imam.
- His Highness the Aga Khan, 49th Hereditary Imam of the Shia Imami Ismaili Muslims
(Address by His Highness the Aga Khan to the Tutzing Evangelical Academy Upon Receiving the "Tolerance" Award, 20 May 2006, Tutzing, Germany)
#58
Changed
-
- Advanced Members
-
- 4,297 posts
Posted 25 June 2004 - 11:22 AM
SHOULD ONE SEEK HEAVEN
FROM SOMEONE WHO HIMSELF FALLS ON HIS FACE AND SEEKS FROM Allah?
Often when I tell the newer generation of the Agakhani Ismailis, who daily seek everything from physical health, wealth to spiritual enlightenment and the Heaven from their Karim Aga Khan, that he himself goes to the Sunni Mosque and prays behind a Sunni Imam like all other Sunni Muslims, they think I am making up stories. I hope these pictures will open their eyes to the Truth.
Photo taken at the Jamia Mosque in Bombay, India.
Friday, 21st March 1958
Karim Aga Khan in white Sherwani is sitting on the right hand of the Imam.
for more info on Ismaili imam click here
FROM SOMEONE WHO HIMSELF FALLS ON HIS FACE AND SEEKS FROM Allah?
Often when I tell the newer generation of the Agakhani Ismailis, who daily seek everything from physical health, wealth to spiritual enlightenment and the Heaven from their Karim Aga Khan, that he himself goes to the Sunni Mosque and prays behind a Sunni Imam like all other Sunni Muslims, they think I am making up stories. I hope these pictures will open their eyes to the Truth.
Photo taken at the Jamia Mosque in Bombay, India.
Friday, 21st March 1958
Karim Aga Khan in white Sherwani is sitting on the right hand of the Imam.
for more info on Ismaili imam click here
Edited by mazhers, 25 June 2004 - 11:30 AM.
( íÇÍÓíä (Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã
#59
Changed
-
- Advanced Members
-
- 4,297 posts
Posted 25 June 2004 - 11:37 AM
Ismailite, on Jun 24 2004, 03:45 PM, said:
The miracle of the Imamate is that Imams are human beings..yet they are the mazhar of Allah on earth.
Quran says:
Qul hu Allahu Ahad
say Allah is one
Allahus samad
Allah is absolute, the eternal
Lam yalid wa lam yulad
neither begotten nor begots
wa lam yakullahu kufuwan ahad
and none is of his likeness (or you can say Mazher)
so there is no such thing as mazher of Allah (Astagfirullah)
by such thng one goes to no where but in well of polytheism
Its mazher
( íÇÍÓíä (Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã
#60
Ismailite
-
- Advanced Members
-
- 446 posts
Member
Posted 25 June 2004 - 01:49 PM
Mazhar does NOT mean likeness.
And plus..Surah Iklas is talking about Allah in His Essence - which is completely unmanifest and unknowable.
However, Allah in His Manifest Aspect possesses Divine Attributes (as the Quran reveals).
And...the Imam is the mazhar of Allah (the Manifest Aspect).
And plus..Surah Iklas is talking about Allah in His Essence - which is completely unmanifest and unknowable.
However, Allah in His Manifest Aspect possesses Divine Attributes (as the Quran reveals).
And...the Imam is the mazhar of Allah (the Manifest Aspect).
Our spiritual understandings, like those of your Academy, are rooted, of course, in ancient teachings. In the case of Islam, there are two touchstones which I have long treasured and sought to apply. The first affirms the unity of the human race, as expressed in the Holy Qu'ran where God, as revealed through the Holy Prophet Muhammad, may peace be upon him, says the following:
“O mankind! Be careful of your duty to your Lord, Who created you from a single soul and from it created its mate and from the twain hath spread abroad a multitude of men and women.” (4:1)
This remarkable verse speaks both of the inherent diversity of mankind -- the “multitude” -- and of the unity of mankind -- the “single soul created by a single Creator” -- a spiritual legacy which distinguishes the human race from all other forms of life.
The second passage I would cite today is from the first hereditary Imam of the Shi'a community Hazrat Ali. As you know, the Shi'a divided from the Sunni after the death of the Prophet Muhammad. Hazrat Ali, the cousin and son-in-law of the Prophet, was, in Shi'a belief, named by the Prophet to be the Legitimate Authority for the interpretation of the faith. For the Shi'a today, all over the world, he is regarded as the first Imam.
“O mankind! Be careful of your duty to your Lord, Who created you from a single soul and from it created its mate and from the twain hath spread abroad a multitude of men and women.” (4:1)
This remarkable verse speaks both of the inherent diversity of mankind -- the “multitude” -- and of the unity of mankind -- the “single soul created by a single Creator” -- a spiritual legacy which distinguishes the human race from all other forms of life.
The second passage I would cite today is from the first hereditary Imam of the Shi'a community Hazrat Ali. As you know, the Shi'a divided from the Sunni after the death of the Prophet Muhammad. Hazrat Ali, the cousin and son-in-law of the Prophet, was, in Shi'a belief, named by the Prophet to be the Legitimate Authority for the interpretation of the faith. For the Shi'a today, all over the world, he is regarded as the first Imam.
- His Highness the Aga Khan, 49th Hereditary Imam of the Shia Imami Ismaili Muslims
(Address by His Highness the Aga Khan to the Tutzing Evangelical Academy Upon Receiving the "Tolerance" Award, 20 May 2006, Tutzing, Germany)
#61
syed_shia
-
- Advanced Members
-
- 2,376 posts
Muslim
Posted 25 June 2004 - 06:54 PM
Quote
- why should we settle for second-best? why should mankind settle for FALLIBLE MEN as their leaders?
- why should the world be filled with injustice and corruption?
- why not keep Imam present in the world and revealed to his followers?
- isnt it unfar to those living in the occultation period when others got to live in the period of the Imams lifetimes?
- why should the world be filled with injustice and corruption?
- why not keep Imam present in the world and revealed to his followers?
- isnt it unfar to those living in the occultation period when others got to live in the period of the Imams lifetimes?
All gods will..... like he made iblis, we dont ask why did u make iblis, so that he can misguide us? as a muslim we should say its Allah Will...
accept it or deny it....
SHAKIR 5.55 : Only Allah is your Vali and His Messenger and those who believe, those who keep up prayers and pay the poor-rate while they bow.
SHAKIR 5.56 : And whoever takes Allah and His messenger and those who believe for a guardian, then surely the party of Allah are they that shall be triumphant.
SHAKIR 5.56 : And whoever takes Allah and His messenger and those who believe for a guardian, then surely the party of Allah are they that shall be triumphant.
#62
al-syedia
-
- Advanced Members
-
- 4,099 posts
ALI TAJDAR
- Location:unknown
Posted 26 June 2004 - 01:43 AM
saalaam i think is her efor our guidence its matter of findin his guidenca etc
u know wat i mean
i maen ahe is with us helping real shias
and i dont count ismailis as muslims as they dont believe in imam al asr
(as)thats it they shud believ in imam -al-asr(as)
u know wat i mean
i maen ahe is with us helping real shias
and i dont count ismailis as muslims as they dont believe in imam al asr
(as)thats it they shud believ in imam -al-asr(as)
tamanna thee k pewand-e-khak-e-karbala hotay
wahan bhi khaak hee hotay magar khaak-e-shifa hotay
pak sarzameen shad baad
someday somewhere we all have to ............................dive
#63
syed_shia
-
- Advanced Members
-
- 2,376 posts
Muslim
Posted 26 June 2004 - 02:19 PM
na i aint gonna act like wahabis,, when they say their muslims, ill accept them... but that dont necersarily mean their rite
SHAKIR 5.55 : Only Allah is your Vali and His Messenger and those who believe, those who keep up prayers and pay the poor-rate while they bow.
SHAKIR 5.56 : And whoever takes Allah and His messenger and those who believe for a guardian, then surely the party of Allah are they that shall be triumphant.
SHAKIR 5.56 : And whoever takes Allah and His messenger and those who believe for a guardian, then surely the party of Allah are they that shall be triumphant.
#64
Changed
-
- Advanced Members
-
- 4,297 posts
Posted 27 June 2004 - 10:09 AM
Ismailite, on Jun 25 2004, 01:49 PM, said:
Mazhar does NOT mean likeness.
And plus..Surah Iklas is talking about Allah in His Essence - which is completely unmanifest and unknowable.
However, Allah in His Manifest Aspect possesses Divine Attributes (as the Quran reveals).
And...the Imam is the mazhar of Allah (the Manifest Aspect).
And plus..Surah Iklas is talking about Allah in His Essence - which is completely unmanifest and unknowable.
However, Allah in His Manifest Aspect possesses Divine Attributes (as the Quran reveals).
And...the Imam is the mazhar of Allah (the Manifest Aspect).
your idea about mazher of Allah is totally ridiculous according to Islam and Quran.
Allah is unique and no one is like him.
( íÇÍÓíä (Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã
#65
Changed
-
- Advanced Members
-
- 4,297 posts
Posted 27 June 2004 - 10:16 AM
Can i know are the Dawoodi Bohra imam and your karim shah are relatives of each other, because sprung from ismailism which is their common branch.
what is diffrent between you and bohras.
and what do you people thin about muslims inclusive of sunnis and itna asharis
what is diffrent between you and bohras.
and what do you people thin about muslims inclusive of sunnis and itna asharis
( íÇÍÓíä (Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã
#66
muhammad72
-
- Banned
-
- 37 posts
Posted 27 June 2004 - 03:48 PM
Ismailis are Ghulats (Ali worshippers) and their traditional greeting is "Ya Ali Madad". According to the Ismaili belief, their actual leader Karim Aga Khan (a swindler and an alcoholic playboy) is the 49th incarnation of their lord Ali ibn Abu Talib. Ismailis have influenced some Itnasheri Shias specially the Akhabaris(who share some of their heretic beliefs).
#67
The Venerator of Ali
-
- Banned
-
- 413 posts
Hence not "worshiper"
Posted 27 June 2004 - 03:51 PM
muhammad72, on Jun 27 2004, 03:48 PM, said:
Ismailis are Ghulats (Ali worshippers) and their traditional greeting is "Ya Ali Madad". According to the Ismaili belief, their actual leader Karim Aga Khan (a swindler and an alcoholic playboy) is the 49th incarnation of their lord Ali ibn Abu Talib. Ismailis have influenced some Itnasheri Shias specially the Akhabaris(who share some of their heretic beliefs).
Fascinating isn't it?
"Shariati created a new maktab (doctorine). It was he who drew the youth of Iran into the revolutionary movement."
--Ayatollah Taleqani
"The works of Shariati were essential for the revolution. Those of Imam Khomeini were not exactly suitable for winning over the younger generation."
--Ayatollah Beheshti
#68
syed_shia
-
- Advanced Members
-
- 2,376 posts
Muslim
Posted 27 June 2004 - 05:28 PM
dont like ppl that curse other people about their belief, plz stop doing that..
SHAKIR 5.55 : Only Allah is your Vali and His Messenger and those who believe, those who keep up prayers and pay the poor-rate while they bow.
SHAKIR 5.56 : And whoever takes Allah and His messenger and those who believe for a guardian, then surely the party of Allah are they that shall be triumphant.
SHAKIR 5.56 : And whoever takes Allah and His messenger and those who believe for a guardian, then surely the party of Allah are they that shall be triumphant.
#69
muhammad72
-
- Banned
-
- 37 posts
Posted 27 June 2004 - 09:06 PM
RevolutionaryGuard, on Jun 27 2004, 03:51 PM, said:
Congratulations, you are now kaffir your self as you have made takfir on other Muslims, tell me how it all feels?
Fascinating isn't it?
Fascinating isn't it?
[Edit]
[Mods note : BANNED for calling shias heretics and jews]
Edited by Abdulhujjah, 28 June 2004 - 12:43 AM.
#70
Abdulhujjah
-
- Advanced Members
-
- 8,436 posts
íÇ ÇÈÇ ÕÇáÍ ãÏÏí
- Location:ARNCLIFFE
- Interests:Staying real, I hate fake people
Posted 28 June 2004 - 12:44 AM
thread closed.
Åöäøó ÇáøóÐöíäó ÞóÇáõæÇ ÑóÈøõäóÇ Çááøóåõ Ëõãøó ÇÓúÊóÞóÇãõæÇ ÊóÊóäóÒøóáõ Úóáóíúåöãõ ÇáúãóáóÇÆößóÉõ ÃóáøóÇ ÊóÎóÇÝõæÇ æóáóÇ ÊóÍúÒóäõæÇ æóÃóÈúÔöÑõæÇ ÈöÇáúÌóäøóÉö ÇáøóÊöí ßõäÊõãú ÊõæÚóÏõæäó
[Shakir 41:30] (As for) those who say: Our Lord is Allah, then continue in the right way, the angels descend upon them, saying: Fear not, nor be grieved, and receive good news of the garden which you were promised.
[Shakir 41:30] (As for) those who say: Our Lord is Allah, then continue in the right way, the angels descend upon them, saying: Fear not, nor be grieved, and receive good news of the garden which you were promised.
0 user(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users
