32 replies to this topic

[shia4life]

Salaam alaikum

Who's heard of him?

His a top sunni scholar, i advise the sunni bro's and sis's to read his book called the ghadir declaration, here he has given 51 hadiths to prove Imam Ali AS caliphate.

I recently showed a sunni bro this book, he himself had nothing to say, subhanallah.

the website is

http://www.research.com.pk/home/fmri/books...dex.minhaj?id=0

another book the awaited imam is there aswell

a feedback from sunni bro's and sis's is most welcomed.

Ya ali!!


W'salaams

Edited by shia4life, 19 May 2004 - 11:16 AM.

[tahasyed]

I've read it, but didnt know he was sunni.

[Sufi110]

Yeh, but Mawla means "friend"

[shia4life]

Salaam alaikum


How about the hadith below? Why has master been used and not friend?

Hadith 22

Exegetes and hadīth-scholars have described the following narration in the mode of revelation of the verse:

اليَوْمَ أكْمَلتُ لكُمْ دِيْنَكُمْ.

Today, I have perfected your religion for you. [2]

عن أبي هريرة رضي الله عنه, قال: من صام يوم ثمان عشرة من ذي الحجة, كتب له صيام ستين شهرا, وهو يوم غدير خم لما أخذ النبي صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم بيد علي بن أبي طالب رضي الله عنه, فقال: ألست ولي المؤمنين؟ قالوا: بلى, يا رسول الله. قال: من كنت مولاه فعلي مولاه. فقال عمر بن الخطاب رضي الله عنه: بخ بخ لك يا ابن أبي طالب! أصبحت مولاي ومولى كل مسلم, فأنزل الله: {اليَوْمَ أكْمَلتُ لكُمْ دِيْنَكُمْ}.

“Abū Hurayrah (رضي الله عنه) has narrated that one who fasted on 18 Dhul-hijjah will receive a reward equal to 60 months of fasting. This was the day of Ghadīr Khum when the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم), holding ‘Alī bin Abī Tālib’s hand, said: Am I not the guardian of the believers? They said: why not, O messenger of Allāh! He said: One who has me as his master has ‘Alī as his master. At this ‘Umar bin al-Khattāb (رضي الله عنه) said: congratulations! O Ibn Abī Tālib! You are my master and (the master of) every Muslim. (On this occasion) Allāh revealed this verse: Today, I have perfected your religion for you.” [3]

[Sufi110]

I was kidding bro, ofcourse Imam Ali is the master of ALL believers

[shia4life]

Salaam alaikum

lol bro, didnt quite catch ur sarcasm!

[Abbas]

Salam Alaikum

Tahir ul-Qadri is a Sunni political leader, and lover of Ahlul Bait a.s.

He even recties majalis during Muharram

He is the sort of Sunni who says maybe Imam ALi a.s. was to be the caliph, but it was not clear, and the sahabah picked Abu Bakr, and Imam Ali a.s. was ok with him, and everything was hunky dory, and Imam Ali a.s. did become caliph as he deserved. They believe in the spritual supremacy of the Ahlul bait a.s. over all other sahabah, but also believe in the political and administrative leadership of the first 3 caliphs.
They are critical of Muawiyah and hate Yazeed to the core.
I think they also believe that Abu Talib a.s. was a Muslim.

[Agha Malang]

Tahir al Qadri is no joke Mullah, he is the leading Hanafi scholar from Pakistan, and is a world wide figure lead of the Muslim group Minhajj al Qur'an. He has in effect said we the Shi'a have said all along - that Ghadheer Khum was the edelcaration of Maula 'Ali (as)'s Wilayath - Maula means Master - This is a position appointed by Allah (swt) - Abu Bakr was a political leader appointed by the people.

[Aliya]

it seems he's about as close as one can be to being shia while still being sunni if you're going to be a sunni, I would hope you would adopt this person's views.

[Jat]

Tahirul Qadri belongs to Sufi school of thought,many of the Sufi's beleive that the knowledge of Law or Shariah was given to all Sahaba while there was secret knowledge about Allah that was only given to Ali and this knowledge was like knowledge given to Khizar.They think that to achieve this knowledge one has to practice Sufi'sm.
However they do beleive that whoever hates the Caliphs is Astray(Gumrah)

[IWN]

jat,

that means there must be something special about Ali , that wasn't there in the first 3 caliphs...

what was it?

[AL JAWAB]

Sallam
Well if I comment on Tahi-rul-Qadri then I will say that he is a moderated Sunni Hanafi scholar. He has good terms with Sunni (rigid) as well as shia.
I hope people have read his book in which he clearly writes that the Khilafat that Hazrat Ali had was spiritual and Khilafat of Sahaba was political... .
There was another Sunni scholar whose name was Siem Chisti he had also this kind of ideology so according to his believe we (sunni) cant deny Khilafat of Ahl-e-Biyaat nor that of Sahaba – e – Kharam..
He is also a political figure and it is normally seen that in politics there are many compromises like Leader of Ullama-e-Islam ( Sami ul Haq ) Sami ul Haq, dean of Madraasa “ Okara Khatak “ was deadly against shia but I saw him recently in Iran in Hafta-e-Wahdat conference etc there are many example but I don’t want to make it long.
In Pakistan there are many factions of Sunni Barlvi, more rigid are “Sunni Tharek” whose leader is Shah Turab ul Haq Qadari, according to him a true muslim ( sunni ) must not have any kind of relations with people who are retracted from Islam ( shia ).
There is Biyat system in Barlwi so he is follower of Shah Abdul Qadri Jillani. ( I read that he was also deadly against shia).
So I have much to say but this topic is not all about it.

Edited by AL JAWAB, 20 May 2004 - 09:43 AM.

[Gypsy]

Sufi110, on May 19 2004, 11:27 AM, said:

Yeh, but Mawla means "friend" 

Prophet(saw) used the word Mawla in an authoritive way (Aula) which means master

His(saw) first sentence asked the beliving men and women as who has more authority on them.

And the ppl replied "You O' Prophet"

Then he said that "For whomsover I was a master(Mawla), This Ali(as) here will be his master henceforth"

He did not stop hundreds and thousands of ppl to say something redundant which has already been said Gazillions time already ..

remmember all his sayying about Imam Ali(as)

"whoemer fights Ali is an infidel"

"Only a hypocrites hates Ali"

"Ali is to me like haroon is to Musa"

People already knew Ali was a friend and only hypocrites hate Ali(as)

Edited by Zareen, 20 May 2004 - 09:52 AM.

[AL JAWAB]

Well all I can say is this that “

“Guidance is only from Allah “, we people can merely try to show that light is bright and guidance is light and except guidance all sides are apparently beautiful but their reality is gloomy.

Sallam

[GHULAAM E ABBAS]

I had seen Tahir ul Qadri from close enough and what i figure out is that due to his political intrests he is a double face person

[The Venerator of Ali]

Bro,

What kind of 'sufi' are you, if you dont mind me asking?

[The Venerator of Ali]

http://www.qadiri-rifai.org/

Its a 'universal' order, it recognises other sufi saints of other silsilas or locations, such Mevlana, Yunus Emre, Haji Bektash Wali.

I will like to learn more about

[The Antimason]

http://www.scathach....en_of_lions.jpg

Another great sufi in the act..Prophet Danial(as)..

[AL JAWAB]

Sallam
Bro sufi you said that, no Shaykh Abdul Qadir Jillani wasn’t against shia, so as you have much information about Sufism so I need assistance from you.
I read some parts of “ Guniyat tul Talebeen” book of Shaykh, and I found that he was totally against shia even some where I guess he wrote that Shia are Jews of this time… .
So can you put forward some evidence from his book where you can establish your point of view that he wasn’t against shias.
Secondly yeah there are some shia mostly in Pakistan who do believe in Sufism.
But still as an over all view Shia scholars are against Sufism.
And as far this thing is concerned that some shia do believe in him, as I consider it their individual act so my comments are not worth.

Sallam

[AL JAWAB]

Sallam
Well bro I heard that sufIs are very moderate and respect all and don’t let allegations on others but please don’t let me change my view about Sufis.
I clearly call these points which you raised are allegations nothing else.
First of all, still shia scholars are not certain that he was descendent of Hazrat Imam Hassan (A.S), even I read different researches about him concerning this point.
Secondly we don’t care if he was your 11th Imam or 12TH all I know he is considered poise and a scholar that’s all. Hazrat Ali is also your 4th Caliph but mine FIRST.
And it is one more baseless allegation that as he is your Caliph therefore we shia abuse him, point is this because of his radical point of views against Shia Doctrine and his sufi teachings we don’t accept him.

- What is the Shia opinion regarding Sufism and can a Muslim study Sufi text?
Sufism, in the eyes of Shiism, in general, Islamically, has no religious basis, and there is no sign of it in the teachings of The Prophet (mpuh). It is better to study the narratives by The Holy Prophet and Nahj-ol Balagheh by Muhammad's successor, Ali(a), thoroughly, and in the next steps, read the books on "History of Islam" and on any conditions, follow the progeny of Mohammad(s), the Infallible Imams(a), who are clear of any sin. To fulfill your religious duties as ordered by the Exalted One, you can refer to a resaleh (Towdih-ol masa'el). It is necessary to say that all the sects have been led astray just as from the beginning and some has set up them ignorantly to make money out of them, or to abuse of some simple-minded and credulous people[ayatollah lankarani ] { http://www.lankarani...lish/faq/en.htm }.

So some shia scholars categories IRFAN and Tasawuf differently, but at the same time some scholars consider both of them the same, therefore not acceptable.
And as far this point is considered that he is accepted 11th Imam out of 12, then please name those 10 A’ema of yours.