28 replies to this topic

[Ibn al-Hassan]

repenter, on 24 May 2013 - 03:11 AM, said:

Well said. Thing is few,,very few scholars disagree with Wilayat Faghi. The only disagreement is on the execution of it, namely the mutlagh part. If you see a scholar not being active in politics or social issues, it doesn't mean he doesn't agree with it, i means either he has dedicated his time to something else or that he has realized that he might not be good at it and has decided to not involve himself for the greater good, and there is no shame in that.

The only issue I have with this approach is that it doesn't pay sufficent attention to what our Imams [as] actually said in regards to politics and power. See, we have this tendency to try and make it seem as if the scholars don't make mistakes or if we see something contradictory to what the Imams [as] are saying in the ahadith, we take recourse to the idea of "well, they're more knowledge than us." So, can we ever really criticize some of the rulings and theories that are prevalent among contemporary scholars or do we just have to accept their interpretation? We're quick to condemn people who don't agree with the majority of scholars (or let's say even all of them), yet do we even exert a fraction of that effort towards our Infallible Imams [as]? After all, is the hallmark of this school of thought about following fallibles or infallibles? I'm not saying that we should not refer to scholars that may have a better understanding of the texts and tradition. In fact, the main job of a scholar is help facilitate the knowledge of the leaders to others. But still, at the end of the day our attempt should be to follow those worthy of being followed and who have been chosen as our Guides. Even if our interpretation happens to be incorrect, at least we can say we made the effort. Sure, every one is allowed to chose their own path, but for me, I don't see this issue come up in the words and actions of the Ahl al-Bayt [as]. Actually, when they do speak of these matters, they discourage their companions from getting involved in political issues. This doesn't mean that we should have no care in what goes on in the political arena, rather our approach must be more nuanced whereby we don't transfrom tashayyu' into a distinct political ideology and force to be reckoned it.

[Wizdom]

http://www.yaqoobi.d...slam/wilaya.htm

[AhlulBayt_313]

Wizdom, on 24 May 2013 - 01:03 PM, said:

http://www.yaqoobi.d...slam/wilaya.htm

Thank you for posting the Thesis of Wilayah by Marja Ayatollah Sheikh Mohammad Musa Al-Yaqoobi (I will read it)

[repenter]

Ali-Reza, on 24 May 2013 - 10:53 AM, said:

Well I was born in Iran, lived in Iran, went to school in Iran till I was almost 18, was fed all sort of "logic" and "reasoning" for WF in our schools and Islamic classes and TV and everywhere yet I still don't buy it!

Why? Because (with all due respect) it leads to injustice and authoritarianism which is whats going on in Iran. And if you don't see the Iranian people running around opposing WF, it is mainly because they fear their safety and they are also afraid that their country becomes another Afghanistan or Syria so they are just putting up with it.

There is no power right now to remove Iranian leader even if he was a bad leader. There is a Islamic council made of his people and friends.

Never in history of Shia Islam have we ever had anything like WF. Not even our Imams such as Imam Jafar sadigh   wanted the position. WF completly made up and it is not in our earlier books and traditions. It is an innovation.

I don't oppose a religious state where there is no absolute power and everyone is below the Islamic law not above it.

That everyone is either elected or appointed and is constantly in check so he will do his job right. But a man like WF holding sharia in his hand acting as an Imam, I am sorry I respectfully can't accept.

Well bro there are certain things here that needs to be addressed and non of these are personal as I am not pointing to your experience per se.

Well I was born in Iran, lived in Iran, went to school in Iran till I was almost 18, was fed all sort of "logic" and "reasoning" for WF in our schools and Islamic classes and TV and everywhere yet I still don't buy it!

There were also many people living under the rule of the Prophet(pbuh) who were also fed all sort of "logic" and "reasoning" for Islam in schools, at home, in masjid, yet like you don't buy WF, they didn't buy Islam. Does that mean the Prophet was wrong? Or Islam? In other words, for one person not understanding a issue, does not invalidate the issue itself in all cases.

Why? Because (with all due respect) it leads to injustice and authoritarianism which is whats going on in Iran. And if you don't see the Iranian people running around opposing WF, it is mainly because they fear their safety and they are also afraid that their country becomes another Afghanistan or Syria so they are just putting up with it.

Well i have also lived in Iran and went to school there and my experience is opposite of yours. I saw plenty of people opposing WF and talk trash openly in the university. There is however a difference in causing fitnah.

There is no power right now to remove Iranian leader even if he was a bad leader. There is a Islamic council made of his people and friends.

Well, again you have to try to explain more your claim, because you make a claim and you don't elaborate on it. The council which you are reffering to is elected by the people and its called assembly of experts. So are you saying that the Iranian people choose friends of Ayatollah Khameneis friends? If so then you are saying that Iranian people are for Ayatollah Khamenei and contradicting yourself. If you are saying that the elections are rigged then you have to prove it, it's easy to say an election is rigged whenever one does not agree with the outcome.

Even if we just look at the Assembly, its content is 86 Mujtahids and Ayatollahs, so you are basically saying that 86 of the biggest mujtahids of Iran are all for his injustice and authoritarianism? That is a pretty bold claim of you.

If you want to stick to facts, the assembly also has people opposing Ayatollah Khamenei. And the Assembly can remove him when they so please. I can't be bothered to list you the names and point out how they oppose him, you can read Farsi i presume this is a responsibility of your own to find out.

I don't oppose a religious state where there is no absolute power and everyone is below the Islamic law not above it.

These two statements are opposing. You want everyone to follow Islamic law, meaning being below it, but you don't want anyone with the absolute power to execute it. Be it a person or a group of people.

That everyone is either elected or appointed and is constantly in check so he will do his job right. But a man like WF holding sharia in his hand acting as an Imam, I am sorry I respectfully can't accept.

You are kind of twisting the subject, but you are entitled to your opinion and as long as it's respectful i can't really see any faults in it.

Wasalam