Tawsuel Vs Ya Ali Madad
#1
Posted 18 May 2013 - 05:41 AM
I am a bit confused about these two things.
I know, that tawsuel is Allahuma bi Haqi Ahlulbayt as e.g..
And Ya Ali Madad is istrfigafah, or something like that..
What is the proves for saying "Ya Ali Madad" ?
Thanks.
Do you love Allah swt? Then go to sujood NOW.
#3
Posted 18 May 2013 - 11:18 AM
فَإِنَّ اللَّهَ هُوَ مَوْلَاهُ وَجِبْرِيلُ وَصَالِحُ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ.......
then surely Allah it is Who is his Guardian, and Jibreel and -the believers that do good, and the angels after that are the aiders. (Quran 66;4)
If the belieevrs are aiders / helpers of the prophet Muhammad pbuh & hf, then the Ameer ul momineen (Chief of believers) can certanly help us, This help has been proven from the history of Islam at various occassions including Badar, Khandaq (Al Ahzab), khaiber, uhud and others, where the prophet called Imam Ali for his help..
This help has also been proved at the occassions of Mubahila against the bani najran when the prophet took his Ahl al bayat a.s. as his aiders to announce the religion islam as true against the christicians.
Then calling Ya Ali madad is the sunna of the prophet saww.
Edited by skamran110, 18 May 2013 - 11:30 AM.
#4
Posted 18 May 2013 - 11:35 AM
Please clerify.
Edited by Ali-F, 18 May 2013 - 11:36 AM.
Do you love Allah swt? Then go to sujood NOW.
#5
Posted 18 May 2013 - 11:38 AM
Ali-F, on 18 May 2013 - 11:35 AM, said:
Please clerify.
dude, you have made at least 5 of these threads in the past. There are also many threads on this, go check them out and come to your own conclusion. Using tawassul isnt a requirement, its your choice.
Questions about life, god, shia islam? Check These Links out!
http://www.awaitedon...-1432-2010.html (Scroll down and click on lecture title to watch video)
http://www.awaitedon...-1430-2009.html (Scroll down and click on lecture title to watch video)
http://www.awaitedon...n-rajabali.html
Al-islam.org (Your true source for everything: Philosophy, Jurisprudence, Laws, Quran, Hadith..Ect | al-shia.org works too)
http://al-shia.org/html/eng/index.php (Have any questions about Shia Islam? Any Misconceptions? Check it out)
*Note to access the video lectures scroll down and click on the lecture title, if it still doesnt work, they can all be found on youtube. To download file, right click and save target as. or check this out shiasource.com/drive/self/lectures/br-hassanain-rajabali/ for a bunch of lectures
#6
Posted 18 May 2013 - 11:45 AM
PureEthics, on 18 May 2013 - 11:38 AM, said:
I am not asking about tawasueel, but Ya Ali Madad.
Do you love Allah swt? Then go to sujood NOW.
#7
Posted 18 May 2013 - 11:53 AM
Ali-F, on 18 May 2013 - 11:45 AM, said:
Questions about life, god, shia islam? Check These Links out!
http://www.awaitedon...-1432-2010.html (Scroll down and click on lecture title to watch video)
http://www.awaitedon...-1430-2009.html (Scroll down and click on lecture title to watch video)
http://www.awaitedon...n-rajabali.html
Al-islam.org (Your true source for everything: Philosophy, Jurisprudence, Laws, Quran, Hadith..Ect | al-shia.org works too)
http://al-shia.org/html/eng/index.php (Have any questions about Shia Islam? Any Misconceptions? Check it out)
*Note to access the video lectures scroll down and click on the lecture title, if it still doesnt work, they can all be found on youtube. To download file, right click and save target as. or check this out shiasource.com/drive/self/lectures/br-hassanain-rajabali/ for a bunch of lectures
#9
Posted 18 May 2013 - 12:30 PM
Ali-F, on 18 May 2013 - 12:25 PM, said:
Its the same concept. No matter what you call it, when you call on a divinely chosen being directly or indirectly, it is still by the will of Allah, if Allah wills. They are never independent. Thus its tawassul.
Questions about life, god, shia islam? Check These Links out!
http://www.awaitedon...-1432-2010.html (Scroll down and click on lecture title to watch video)
http://www.awaitedon...-1430-2009.html (Scroll down and click on lecture title to watch video)
http://www.awaitedon...n-rajabali.html
Al-islam.org (Your true source for everything: Philosophy, Jurisprudence, Laws, Quran, Hadith..Ect | al-shia.org works too)
http://al-shia.org/html/eng/index.php (Have any questions about Shia Islam? Any Misconceptions? Check it out)
*Note to access the video lectures scroll down and click on the lecture title, if it still doesnt work, they can all be found on youtube. To download file, right click and save target as. or check this out shiasource.com/drive/self/lectures/br-hassanain-rajabali/ for a bunch of lectures
#10
Posted 18 May 2013 - 02:37 PM
AhlulBayt_313, on 18 May 2013 - 09:37 AM, said:
بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم
السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركتهThis Hadeeth, of Du`aa Naday `Ali, is weak. It was recorded by `Allaamah Muhammad Baaqir Majlisi b. Muhammad Taqi Majlisi رضي الله عنه in his Bihaar al-Anwaar, volume 20 page 72-73 Hadeeth 11, and he took it from Sharh ad-Diwaan. The original Du`aa from the source goes as follows:
قال : ويقال : إن النبي صلى الله عليه وآله نودي في هذا اليوم : ناد عليا مظهرالعجائب تجده عونا لك في النوائب كل غم وهم سينجلي بولايتك يا علي ياعلي ياعلي
However, there is no Sanad to the Hadeeth. I have put the Du`aa itself above in red. The one who has investigated the book has also added the following footnote:
( 1 ) الجملة الاخيرة فيها غرابة ولا تلائم سابقها ، والظاهر أنها من زيادة بعض الجهلة ، او الصوفية المضلة الذين يزعمون أن هذه الجملات تكون دعاء فيذكرونها وردا وذكرا ، غفلة عن معناها ، بل بعضهم يرون للمداومة على ذكرها فضيلة ليست للصلاة ، حفظنا الله عن البدع واتباع الاهواء .
A translation I found: In the last sentence there is some strangeness, and it does not suit what preceded it. What is apparent is that it is an addition from some of the ignorant, or the straying Soofis that claim these sentences are Du`aa, heedless of its meaning. Rather, some of them relate for constantly reciting it virtue that is not (even) for salaat. May Allah guard us from innovation and the following of caprice.
The question was also asked on the `Aalims' network on al-Islam.org about the source of the Du`aa (here) to which Shaykh Mustafaa Ja`far has said that al-Khoei رضي الله عنه had rejected the Du`aa as per his standards. Therefore this weak hadeeth cannot be used as evidence. wa Allaahu 'Aa`lam.
والسلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركته
Edited by al-`Ajal Ya Imaam, 18 May 2013 - 02:39 PM.
٦٤٣-٣ وعن محمد بن الحسن وعلي بن محمد ، عن سهل بن زياد ، وعن محمد بن يحيى ، عن أحمد بن محمد جميعا ، عن جعفر بن محمد الأشعري ، عن عبد الله بن ميمون القداح ، وعن علي بن إبراهيم ، عن أبيه ، عن حماد بن عيسى ، عن القداح ، عن أبي عبد الله عليه السلام قال : قال رسول الله صل الله عليه وآله : من سلك طريقا يطلب فيه علما ، سلك الله به طريقا إلى الجنة وأن الملائكة لتضع أجنحتها لطالب العلم رضا به وأنه ليستغفر لطالب العلم من في السماء ومن في الأرض حتى الحوت في البحر وفضل العالم على العابد كفضل القمر على سائر النجوم ليلة البدر ، الحديث .
And from Muhammad b. al-Hasan and `Ali b. Muhammad from Sahl b. Ziyad and from Muhammad b. Yahya from Ahmad b. Muhammad all from Ja`far b. Muhammad al-Ash`ari from `Abdullah b. Maymun al-Qaddah and from `Ali b. Ibrahim from his father from Hammad b. `Isa from al-Qaddah from Abu `Abdillah عليه السلام. He said: The Messenger of Allah صلى الله عليه وآله said: Whoever travels a path seeking knowledge in it, Allah تعالى will make him travel a road to the Garden. And the angels set their wings for the seeker of knowledge, pleased with him. And whoever is in the heavens and whoever is in the Earth seeks forgiveness for him, even the fish in the sea. And the virtue of the learned over the worshiper is as the virtue of the moon over all of the stars on a full-moon night.
#11
Posted 18 May 2013 - 02:58 PM
al-`Ajal Ya Imaam, on 18 May 2013 - 02:37 PM, said:
بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم
السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركتهThis Hadeeth, of Du`aa Naday `Ali, is weak. It was recorded by `Allaamah Muhammad Baaqir Majlisi b. Muhammad Taqi Majlisi رضي الله عنه in his Bihaar al-Anwaar, volume 20 page 72-73 Hadeeth 11, and he took it from Sharh ad-Diwaan. The original Du`aa from the source goes as follows:
قال : ويقال : إن النبي صلى الله عليه وآله نودي في هذا اليوم : ناد عليا مظهرالعجائب تجده عونا لك في النوائب كل غم وهم سينجلي بولايتك يا علي ياعلي ياعلي
However, there is no Sanad to the Hadeeth. I have put the Du`aa itself above in red. The one who has investigated the book has also added the following footnote:
( 1 ) الجملة الاخيرة فيها غرابة ولا تلائم سابقها ، والظاهر أنها من زيادة بعض الجهلة ، او الصوفية المضلة الذين يزعمون أن هذه الجملات تكون دعاء فيذكرونها وردا وذكرا ، غفلة عن معناها ، بل بعضهم يرون للمداومة على ذكرها فضيلة ليست للصلاة ، حفظنا الله عن البدع واتباع الاهواء .
A translation I found: In the last sentence there is some strangeness, and it does not suit what preceded it. What is apparent is that it is an addition from some of the ignorant, or the straying Soofis that claim these sentences are Du`aa, heedless of its meaning. Rather, some of them relate for constantly reciting it virtue that is not (even) for salaat. May Allah guard us from innovation and the following of caprice.
The question was also asked on the `Aalims' network on al-Islam.org about the source of the Du`aa (here) to which Shaykh Mustafaa Ja`far has said that al-Khoei رضي الله عنه had rejected the Du`aa as per his standards. Therefore this weak hadeeth cannot be used as evidence. wa Allaahu 'Aa`lam.
والسلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركته
OK.
Edited by AhlulBayt_313, 18 May 2013 - 03:03 PM.
#12
Posted 18 May 2013 - 03:38 PM
al-`Ajal Ya Imaam, on 18 May 2013 - 02:37 PM, said:
بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم
السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركتهThis Hadeeth, of Du`aa Naday `Ali, is weak. It was recorded by `Allaamah Muhammad Baaqir Majlisi b. Muhammad Taqi Majlisi رضي الله عنه in his Bihaar al-Anwaar, volume 20 page 72-73 Hadeeth 11, and he took it from Sharh ad-Diwaan. The original Du`aa from the source goes as follows:
قال : ويقال : إن النبي صلى الله عليه وآله نودي في هذا اليوم : ناد عليا مظهرالعجائب تجده عونا لك في النوائب كل غم وهم سينجلي بولايتك يا علي ياعلي ياعلي
However, there is no Sanad to the Hadeeth. I have put the Du`aa itself above in red. The one who has investigated the book has also added the following footnote:
( 1 ) الجملة الاخيرة فيها غرابة ولا تلائم سابقها ، والظاهر أنها من زيادة بعض الجهلة ، او الصوفية المضلة الذين يزعمون أن هذه الجملات تكون دعاء فيذكرونها وردا وذكرا ، غفلة عن معناها ، بل بعضهم يرون للمداومة على ذكرها فضيلة ليست للصلاة ، حفظنا الله عن البدع واتباع الاهواء .
A translation I found: In the last sentence there is some strangeness, and it does not suit what preceded it. What is apparent is that it is an addition from some of the ignorant, or the straying Soofis that claim these sentences are Du`aa, heedless of its meaning. Rather, some of them relate for constantly reciting it virtue that is not (even) for salaat. May Allah guard us from innovation and the following of caprice.
The question was also asked on the `Aalims' network on al-Islam.org about the source of the Du`aa (here) to which Shaykh Mustafaa Ja`far has said that al-Khoei رضي الله عنه had rejected the Du`aa as per his standards. Therefore this weak hadeeth cannot be used as evidence. wa Allaahu 'Aa`lam.
والسلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركته
Not entirely true. This thread has been discussed here in ziarat Amirul Momenin as we say" assalamu alaika ya mazhar al-Ajaeb wa al-ayat.."
If Imam Ali
Food for thought; there are lots hadith with strong sanad on sunni books we shias STRONGLY reject!
Ya Ali!
Edited by Ali-Reza, 18 May 2013 - 04:03 PM.
اللهم صل على محمد وال محمد
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Important Disclaimer: Comments stated by me on this forum are entirely mine and not of any scholars or organizations I attend or maybe involved with.
#13
Posted 18 May 2013 - 04:21 PM
PureEthics, on 18 May 2013 - 12:30 PM, said:
But Allahuma bi Haqi Ali and Ya Ali Madad, is two different things, right?
Do you love Allah swt? Then go to sujood NOW.
#14
Posted 18 May 2013 - 05:45 PM
Ali-F, on 18 May 2013 - 04:21 PM, said:
Questions about life, god, shia islam? Check These Links out!
http://www.awaitedon...-1432-2010.html (Scroll down and click on lecture title to watch video)
http://www.awaitedon...-1430-2009.html (Scroll down and click on lecture title to watch video)
http://www.awaitedon...n-rajabali.html
Al-islam.org (Your true source for everything: Philosophy, Jurisprudence, Laws, Quran, Hadith..Ect | al-shia.org works too)
http://al-shia.org/html/eng/index.php (Have any questions about Shia Islam? Any Misconceptions? Check it out)
*Note to access the video lectures scroll down and click on the lecture title, if it still doesnt work, they can all be found on youtube. To download file, right click and save target as. or check this out shiasource.com/drive/self/lectures/br-hassanain-rajabali/ for a bunch of lectures
#15
Posted 18 May 2013 - 07:26 PM
Ali-Reza, on 18 May 2013 - 03:38 PM, said:
If Imam Ali
Food for thought; there are lots hadith with strong sanad on sunni books we shias STRONGLY reject!
Ya Ali!
بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم
السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركتهI'm not much in the mood of a debate since it's already clearly been debated multiple times on this forum, however for the sake of argument, including the phrase Mazh'har al-`Ajaa'ib does not make the Du`aa automatically Mu`tabar, that might be a quality of Ameer al-Mu'mineen عليه السلام, however the fact that there is no chain still stands clear. Apart from that, refer to how Shaykh `Abd ar-Raheem Rubaani (?) ash-Shiraazi (authenticator and commenter of Bihaar al-Anwaar-amongst other books such as Wasaa'il ash-Shi`ah) says can be a fabrication from a Soofi or a ignorant person, based on how the latter not matching the former, ie. Mazh'har al-`Ajaa'ib could've been added. My point of saying that the Du`aa is weak is because the person posted it as evidence for saying that Ya `Ali Madad is permissible, whereas since it's a weak Hadeeth, it's not evidence for anything. wa Allaahu 'Aa`lam.
والسلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركته
٦٤٣-٣ وعن محمد بن الحسن وعلي بن محمد ، عن سهل بن زياد ، وعن محمد بن يحيى ، عن أحمد بن محمد جميعا ، عن جعفر بن محمد الأشعري ، عن عبد الله بن ميمون القداح ، وعن علي بن إبراهيم ، عن أبيه ، عن حماد بن عيسى ، عن القداح ، عن أبي عبد الله عليه السلام قال : قال رسول الله صل الله عليه وآله : من سلك طريقا يطلب فيه علما ، سلك الله به طريقا إلى الجنة وأن الملائكة لتضع أجنحتها لطالب العلم رضا به وأنه ليستغفر لطالب العلم من في السماء ومن في الأرض حتى الحوت في البحر وفضل العالم على العابد كفضل القمر على سائر النجوم ليلة البدر ، الحديث .
And from Muhammad b. al-Hasan and `Ali b. Muhammad from Sahl b. Ziyad and from Muhammad b. Yahya from Ahmad b. Muhammad all from Ja`far b. Muhammad al-Ash`ari from `Abdullah b. Maymun al-Qaddah and from `Ali b. Ibrahim from his father from Hammad b. `Isa from al-Qaddah from Abu `Abdillah عليه السلام. He said: The Messenger of Allah صلى الله عليه وآله said: Whoever travels a path seeking knowledge in it, Allah تعالى will make him travel a road to the Garden. And the angels set their wings for the seeker of knowledge, pleased with him. And whoever is in the heavens and whoever is in the Earth seeks forgiveness for him, even the fish in the sea. And the virtue of the learned over the worshiper is as the virtue of the moon over all of the stars on a full-moon night.
#17
Posted 19 May 2013 - 05:14 AM
al-`Ajal Ya Imaam, on 18 May 2013 - 07:26 PM, said:
بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم
السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركتهI'm not much in the mood of a debate since it's already clearly been debated multiple times on this forum, however for the sake of argument, including the phrase Mazh'har al-`Ajaa'ib does not make the Du`aa automatically Mu`tabar, that might be a quality of Ameer al-Mu'mineen عليه السلام, however the fact that there is no chain still stands clear. Apart from that, refer to how Shaykh `Abd ar-Raheem Rubaani (?) ash-Shiraazi (authenticator and commenter of Bihaar al-Anwaar-amongst other books such as Wasaa'il ash-Shi`ah) says can be a fabrication from a Soofi or a ignorant person, based on how the latter not matching the former, ie. Mazh'har al-`Ajaa'ib could've been added. My point of saying that the Du`aa is weak is because the person posted it as evidence for saying that Ya `Ali Madad is permissible, whereas since it's a weak Hadeeth, it's not evidence for anything. wa Allaahu 'Aa`lam.
والسلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركته
Actually, I posted it because I wanted to...It wasn't even for evidentiary reasons, it was just a picture I made (and a good one for that matter). Some people use Ya Ali Madad, and some don't (it's really a matter of choice at this point). As for my reasoning for posting that picture, I don't feel I need to validate myself or my picture of Imam Ali
#20
Posted Today, 12:09 PM
This calling of Imam Ali for help, has been proven from the history of Islam at various occassions including Badar, Khandaq (Al Ahzab), khaiber, uhud and others, where the prophet called Imam Ali for his help..
This help has also been proved at the occassions of Mubahila against the bani najran when the prophet took his Ahl al bayat a.s. as his aiders to announce the religion islam as true against the christicians.
Then calling Ya Ali madad (Calling Imam Ali for help) is the sunna of the prophet saww.
Edited by skamran110, Today, 12:10 PM.
#21
Posted Today, 12:12 PM
skamran110, on 21 May 2013 - 12:09 PM, said:
This calling of Imam Ali for help, has been proven from the history of Islam at various occassions including Badar, Khandaq (Al Ahzab), khaiber, uhud and others, where the prophet called Imam Ali for his help..
This help has also been proved at the occassions of Mubahila against the bani najran when the prophet took his Ahl al bayat a.s. as his aiders to announce the religion islam as true against the christicians.
Then calling Ya Ali madad (Calling Imam Ali for help) is the sunna of the prophet saww.
Yes, but is the proves that our imams did it?
Do you love Allah swt? Then go to sujood NOW.
#22
Posted Today, 12:16 PM
Do you intend to deny the sunna of the prophet? That has been proven fact in the light of quran and history.
There is no verse in quran that states that the prophet sunna should be followed only when he is alive. If this is so then there will be religion after the prophet Muhammad saww. i hope you get my point.
Edited by skamran110, Today, 12:24 PM.
#23
Posted Today, 01:08 PM
skamran110, on 21 May 2013 - 12:16 PM, said:
Do you intend to deny the sunna of the prophet? That has been proven fact in the light of quran and history.
There is no verse in quran that states that the prophet sunna should be followed only when he is alive. If this is so then there will be religion after the prophet Muhammad saww. i hope you get my point.
If I should be honest, I do not see Ya Ali Madad as shirk, neither haram, but I don't want to do it. I will be in safe side? You know?
Do you love Allah swt? Then go to sujood NOW.
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