57 replies to this topic

[Yoel]

peace seeker, on 21 May 2013 - 01:25 PM, said:

If i was american and he was running for presidency, i'd make a big effort to find out, in order to know if i should vote for him or not.

I am not American. I am an immigrant without voting rights.

But Duke's membership in the Ku Klux Klan is enough to avoid him like hell. This guy is extremely bad, but I'm not going to argue more about it.

peace seeker, on 21 May 2013 - 01:25 PM, said:

maybe you can give us a course here on shiachat and also teach us how the zionists abuse it. thanks

Thanks for the idea. I'll try to find time to write about it in detail and open a thread.

CLynn, on 21 May 2013 - 01:26 PM, said:

All nations all over the world had taken in the Jewish population during the wars of Hitler.

Oh really? The British didn't take Jews in and wouldn't let them to settle in Palestine, when Hitler was killing them in Europe. The British only supported the Zionist movement as long as it was strengthening their imperialist power. By the way, the local Palestinian Jews were not happy with Zionism either. Ever read how Jacob Israel de Haan was murdered by the Zionists?

Haji 2003, on 21 May 2013 - 01:42 PM, said:

There are so many problems with this.

1. The Zionist plans for Palestine pre-dated the Holocaust by several decades. These plans acknowledged that the native population would need to be forcibly removed. So it's a bit rich for the Palestinians to then be asked to gift the land out of goodwill.

2. The initial allocation of land to Israel (and the Zionist acceptance of it) was no more than a short term bargaining ploy. We know this because the modern Zionist claim of Jerusalem being their undivided capital for eternity.

It's a bit more complicated. Zionism was originally a more diverse movement. Some people first suggested Uganda instead of Palestine. Some people like Martin Buber and Judah Magnes believed in peaceful co-existence together with the local population in a bi-national state. Now it's considered an anti-Zionist position, but up until 1950s it was still considered a left-wing variety of Zionism. But the more militant Zionist factions, who wanted to grab Jerusalem from the beginning with, eventually won.

[peace seeker]

CLynn, on 21 May 2013 - 01:54 PM, said:

Exactly.  So in what way is it ok for you to refer to me as... 'my kind'?
Salaam,
CLynn


I would like to know you... personally... what you think, feel, and say.

" In friendship, in seeking truth, one must be able to speak freely.  I must be free to speak...as freely as you do about things that you don't agree with."

Salaam,
CLynn

well your kind is like a certain type of Christian sect, or group of sects, that do not see the truth in Islam and religion of Prophet Mohamed. And actually hate this religion, and disrespect the final Prophet.

at the same time your kind is like a person who does not know how to talk without offending others. lack of sensitivity probably based on ignorance as well and being guided by deceivers.

if you really seek the truth then you will find it, but you talk like somebody who thinks he already knows the truth and make your insulting statements and comparisons.

salaam

Yoel, on 21 May 2013 - 02:30 PM, said:

I am not American. I am an immigrant without voting rights.

But Duke's membership in the Ku Klux Klan is enough to avoid him like hell. This guy is extremely bad, but I'm not going to argue more about it.



Thanks for the idea. I'll try to find time to write about it in detail and open a thread.

yes please open a thread about that soon, it would be very extremely interesting to look into the Talmud for a change.

and David Duke maybe did a mistake by being part of the KKK, but there is no evidence he lynched anybody or burned crosses in front of people's homes. basically it could be a mistake he did in the past, and we all do mistakes. That in itself is not reason enough to dismiss him. His countless videos show that he has evolved a lot since then in the right direction. So am open to actual evidence for or against him. If people started accusing you, you would also want people like me defending you. even if you were a zionist before. (for instance)
It could be that he repented 35 years ago
and if you are right i am 100% sure that his real agenda will pop up very soon and very clearly for those who an see.

[CLynn]

Greetings peace seeker,

I would like to give you something to think about.  (Is it not said that it is in the islamic tradition to explore ideas?)

You don't think that anything you say, while speaking your mind freely, is ever offensive to others?
You don't think others could call your belief ignorance?
But I do not call you ignorant, do I?

"In friendship, in seeking truth, one must be able to speak freely.  I must be free to speak...as freely as you do about things that you don't agree with."

Salaam,
CLynn

note:  I do not "hate this religion".  I believe in discerning the good in all religions... to seek the guidance of the Creator.

²¹ Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

I see alot of good in the muslim culture, which comes from its religion.  I see alot of what has gone missing from the culture of so-called Christians... but as with everyone else, and all people's, as we are all under the sway of this world... I also see hypocrisy.

I believe our Creator would want us to be seeking peace with one another, above anything else.

Edited by CLynn, Yesterday, 03:33 PM.

[Yoel]

peace seeker, on 21 May 2013 - 03:00 PM, said:

and if you are right i am 100% sure that his real agenda will pop up very soon and very clearly for those who an see.

His real agenda is crystal clear. For example, listen to this disgusting racist anti-immigrant shit and pay attention for images of those "horrible" Muslim immigrants who are "polluting" the "civilized" white Europe:

[CLynn]

Yoel, on 21 May 2013 - 03:40 PM, said:

His real agenda is crystal clear. For example, listen to this disgusting racist anti-immigrant shit and pay attention for images of those "horrible" Muslim immigrants who are "polluting" the "civilized" white Europe:

Greetings Yoel and peace seeker,
Do you think you could take this discussion to a separate thread?
Thanks and salaam,
CLynn

Edited by CLynn, Yesterday, 03:44 PM.

[peace seeker]

CLynn, on 21 May 2013 - 03:17 PM, said:

Greetings peace seeker,

I would like to give you something to think about.  (Is it not said that it is in the islamic tradition to explore ideas?)

You don't think that anything you say, while speaking your mind freely, is ever offensive to others?
You don't think others could call your belief ignorance?
But I do not call you ignorant, do I?

"In friendship, in seeking truth, one must be able to speak freely.  I must be free to speak...as freely as you do about things that you don't agree with."

Salaam,
CLynn

note:  I do not "hate this religion".  I believe in discerning the good in all religions... to seek the guidance of the Creator.

²¹ Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

I see alot of good in the muslim culture, which comes from its religion.  I see alot of what has gone missing from the culture of so-called Christians... but as with everyone else, and all people's, as we are all under the sway of this world... I also see hypocrisy.

I believe our Creator would want us to be seeking peace with one another, above anything else.

then stop talking about "Islam" in the ways you have been doing.

Quote

But I do not call you ignorant, do I?

here, how about your comparisons you did to Islam on post #32? isn't that more than calling me ignorant by comparing Islam with passages that talk about just that?

you can talk as freely as you want among your own people, but when you are in an Islamic setting you better respect our beliefs.

Quote

You don't think others could call your belief ignorance?

i couldn't care less about that actually, just like i don't care if people end up in hell fire. People spoke against all prophets and Godly Religions, so go ahead. But you are in a place, on of the few places online where such talk is not tolerated. Consider yourself inside a shia mosque !!! Have some respect !!

Quote

I see alot of good in the muslim culture, which comes from its religion.  I see alot of what has gone missing from the culture of so-called Christians... but as with everyone else, and all people's, as we are all under the sway of this world... I also see hypocrisy.

better stick to the good you see in both religions. if you preoccupy yourself too much with bad, you might end up being bad. Religions are for your benefit, and if you don't benefit from something, then move on until you find something that benefits you in peace, and without offending others. You talk about peace and friendship, but your posts show an indirect poison going the opposite direction.

Quote

²¹ Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

next time you make any religious claims, better attach your proof! Next time you slander my prophet, then bring your proof !! next time you generalize about Islam bring your proof!! And the same goes for Zionist issue!!

Salaam

CLynn, on 21 May 2013 - 03:44 PM, said:

Greetings Yoel and peace seeker,
Do you think you could take this discussion to a separate thread?
Thanks and salaam,
CLynn

Greetings
you also made accusations, so you better back them up. what about ²¹ Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. ??
Thanks and salaam

[peace seeker]

Yoel, on 21 May 2013 - 03:40 PM, said:

His real agenda is crystal clear. For example, listen to this disgusting racist anti-immigrant shit and pay attention for images of those "horrible" Muslim immigrants who are "polluting" the "civilized" white Europe:

Quote

he said what if europeans would invade your land and make you a minority and flood your country? massive european invasion of Muslim lands?

"europeans walk as strangers in their country"

crimes increase with immigrants

massive immigration + low european birthrate = end of european heritage

these above points do hold truth in some cases, however i can see also where you are coming from:

first of all i don't know why he ignores the heritage of native americans. he is likewise in a foreign land and made the locals strangers in their own homes.

he is comparing race with religion. talking about european race invaded by muslims. one is physical race and other is spiritual creed. (i.e. a european guy can be muslim  )

then also he over glorifies the greeks as if they are the source of all culture in west. but greeks actually got their culture (especially art and religion) from ancient egyptians. (via Alex of Macedonia & the "greek" ptolemeik dynasties of Egypt) They seem to forget that all (late) great "Greek" philosophers were based in Alexandria. anyway ..

And the final talk about fighting with their lives to create an ethnically clean europe kind of sounds a bit hitlerish.

.. and zionist as well.

anyway, i am still not convinced completely, but it's a good piece of evidence anyway.

maybe the guy didn't mean it that way, but i can see where you are coming from. Allah knows best

[CLynn]

let's see if we can bring the thread back to topic.
The reason it went off topic was because jahangiram made a valid point about the video not giving references for the quotations, and I replied to him that I wondered how hard it would be to check the quotes.  Then I decided to research truth for myself.  That is from where the other statements came from... when I suggested things to research(post #10).  Has anybody bothered?

So to come back to the point of the topic, which I have been trying to do.

• if the people of palestine would have willingly accepted a small portion of the land being designated for the Jewish people... could all this conflict have been avoided?
  
• Why refuse the separate state solutions?  20/80, then 43/57

and,

• If the greenhouses had not been burned, how different might the palestinian situation be today?

" I don't advocate on anything but the side of peace."
That is, what I believe, God would want.

I seek only the truth, and I find these discussions helpful in seeking the truth.
Salaam,
CLynn


Continuing research:
Read about the Peele Commission

Then research
Haj Amin al-Husseini


I am still trying to finish reading what Ibn al-Hassan shared.  Has anyone else taken the time to read it?

Edited by CLynn, Yesterday, 10:23 PM.