4 replies to this topic

[Logical Islam]

Not in the generic sense where you call out to Allah, the lord of the universe, in the hope that if he wants, he can help.

Rather in the sense that there are a lot of Dua books that say ' recite this 65 times (why not 64?) and you will be cured of all ills'

this is prevelent for a lot of duas, garuenteeting you will be cured of this or granted this.

I can not see the logic behind this. Firstly, these duas do not work (reciting a surah 65 times will cure this, or that). Also...why not 64? why not 55? The fact it does not work in the fist place does not merit the second point questioning the finer details of the dua recommendations, but still, it is a point i wish to raise.

I also want help understanding the concept of Dua. A well known hadith states that Imam Ali told his companion 'tie your camel then pray to Allah to protect it from theft...don't just leave it untied and pray'.

Which begs the question, if i work, why pray for money? If i am given medicine, why pray for a cure?

If atheists, and those who shun God are so succesful - what dua have they done for their help?

I have looked at dua as a symbolic thing, to show God i only ask from him and that if he wants to help me, he can.

I have been told ' only halal duas are accepted' . There have been many halal dua's i have made that are not accepted. And i can assure you, they were not bad for me.

A brother works hard, and gets a random ankle injury where before, he prayed for good health.

A father dies, where his family prayed for his longevity, thus destroying the family.

What about a muslim who prays to win the lottery and wins it...was his dua granted?

How can we even be sure?

These are questions i have thought of, and as a muslim, want some light shed on.

ahsant

[fightingsoul001]

I also have thought a little bit about this issue and come to conclusion that.

It is all shaitan due to arrogant behaviour of which we are suffering in this world and next world. Shaitan has challanged Allah against us. Shaitan is our open enemy and he is completely free till day of judgement. That is why we see people of Allah ( swt) aparantly suffering in this world because of his arrogance and jealousy against them. Despite our many mistakes Allah still give us time to repent. People who go against Allah (swt) are most of the time apparently doing good in this world because shaitan favour them.

Allah (swt) is very very ......merciful and have opened every door for us to help us.

Duas protect you against shaitan but they should be from depth of your heart and with surety that Allah ( swt) listens to you. But this feeling does not come unless you are pure.

Edited by fightingsoul001, 18 August 2012 - 12:49 AM.

[HabibKarimi]

Dua is a request from the infinite mercy of Allah from Allah. It is an indication that the person believes in the power of Allah, that is unless Allah wills for you to achieve this and have that, you won't have it no matter how hard you try. Therefore Dua shows the status of ones Imaan (believe) of God. It has been said somany times in the quran that Allah says Call upon me! Call upon me! and I will answer you.

So what are some reasons as to why doesn't a person's sincere dua gets granted?
1- Sin (In dua kumail it says " Oh Allah forgive me the sins that I have committed which stop you from granted my duas")

2- May be it is better for you to not achieve that thing- Oh really! Allah will not listen to you when you call upon him? when he asked us to call upon him. No it is far from him. It is not one of his attributes. One of the other reason as to why Allah doesn't give you what you want e.g. money is because it is bad for you. What if that money makes you forget Allah and pulls you towards the hell fire? Remember how one of the companions of the prophet asked the prophet to ask from Allah to give him lots of wealth. Then the prophet said it will distract to you from Allah (he used to do his five daily prayers in Jama in the mosque). However he insisted on so the prophet requested from Allah to give him wealth. Day be day the guy who didn't miss on performing any of his prayers in the mosque, started to miss out the prayers in the mosque. After a few years he was never seen in the mosque. Then the prophet went up to him and he told the prophet that the reason he couldn't come to the mosque was because he was too busy with his business.

3- As the brother above mentioned how do you know that he mightn't have saved you from a situation which was worse?

4- Allah may try to test you. He tests his good servants on whether they lose hope in Allah or not. The ones who passes these tests, would certainly get multiple rewards and a raise in status compared to others.

So dua indicates a very strong belief in Allah and Allah loves those who call upon him and are patient and have true believe in his mercy and his kindness.

I do agree with you on some duas like " read this 2 raka prayers and the fire of hell would be ashamed to burn you or would be haram upon you" " Read this dua and you will achieve the status of a Shahid" Oh really! So you and those who got killed in Jihad would be treated the same in Qiyama.
So people should not rely only on dua, they should strive hard for their goals. You cant just recite a dua which promises you to go to heaven, and then start sinning. I personally don't believe in duas which give you 100% promise. I believe it is in Allah's hands as to if he would want to grant our dua or not!

Also bear in mind that the reason as to why other people that don't believe in Allah and get what they want in life is because as Allah has promised, he will grant the request of those who only asks for materialistic things in this world but won't give him a share in the hereafter. That is why i believe most of the non-muslim are successful (materialistic success) in this world. (this is showed very beautifully in the Iranian Imam Ali series in which Aamr Asks Allah to give him the khilafat of Egypt even though he is an enemy to Allah and his good servants. So then he achieves the worldly desire which he asked for).

Edited by HabibKarimi, 18 August 2012 - 01:23 AM.

[Cake]

 Logical Islam, on 17 August 2012 - 10:12 PM, said:

I can not see the logic behind this. Firstly, these duas do not work (reciting a surah 65 times will cure this, or that). Also...why not 64? why not 55? The fact it does not work in the fist place does not merit the second point questioning the finer details of the dua recommendations, but still, it is a point i wish to raise.

"It does not work"
https://www.youtube....h?v=iri-T6z4Uyg

"why not 64? why not 55?"
http://www.revivinga...h-strictly.html

Edited by Cake, 18 August 2012 - 09:22 AM.