11 replies to this topic

[Logical Islam]

With Mutah, i could technically go out with a christian girl(i'd tell her i need to ask her dad if she was not a virgin) or if he dad allowed her to go out ect, or if she is not a virgin...and then date her with complete freedom for however long we wanted (we can just keep renewing it)...and then leave if it did not work out?

O.O i could do this with jewish girls also? or sunni-muslim girls who did not practise properly/were independnt?(it isnt allowed by sunnis)

i was raised to believe marriges were importiant, and that dating was wrong because it encourged promiscuity, and that men(to mean all humans) were tested by their patience.

I thoroughly welcome this! But my inner conscious tells me...does it not make sense for masturbation to be allowed instead? I mean you relieve yourself without commiting to a short term relationship with another human being - where you can not get married - no-one finds out, no-one is left emotionally vested...ect

it seems, even as a 'shia' (that i am), mutah is basically dating with monotheists with the exeption that you must recite lines to each other and give a girl anything (can be a bunch of flowers?)

i am torn between thinking hey! this is a miracle! to...my core beliefs being shaken lol.


all my life i was told that gf's are bad! ect...to knowing that university muslims can go out with christian girls!

i am all for it. Because if mutah is actually harram, what else have our marja's got wrong? and if our marja's have got other things wrong, then Islam is not clear

atleast the only thing i am sure off is that there must be a creator for the universe - a belief i and billions of people have clarified using science, logic, and honest open minded-ness

THANKS!

[nospam001]

Yes, it does seem 'too good to be true'. But then so do a lot of things, in all religions, not just Islam. That's one of the reasons why I'm agnostic.

[AllahAkbar]

It's a mercy from Allah. The concept of food can also sound too good to be true. A thing that you eat that sustains you and tastes good too?! Sleep? You mean we turn off our brainz and we won't die of exhaustion? What?! We only have to sleep for half the time we want to stay awake?! All of these would sound too good to be true if they weren't the norms for you. These are all mercies from Allah.

Imam Saddiq : "considered mut'a a divine mercy by means of which people were saved from the sin of fornication and delivered from God's retribution. Concerning the Qur'anic verse: 'Whatsoever mercy God opens to men, none can withhold' (35:2) the Imam said: ' Mut'a is part of that mercy.'" - Wasaa'il ash-Shia, XIV, pg 439, Hadith 18

nospam001, on 06 October 2012 - 08:57 PM, said:

Yes, it does seem 'too good to be true'. But then so do a lot of things, in all religions, not just Islam. That's one of the reasons why I'm agnostic.

Then you haven't done enough studying.

Also, if man wanted to create a fake religion that is 'too good to be true', they would create a religion where having sex out of wedlock is actually a good thing and the more you do it the better heaven you will get in to.

[Waiting for HIM]

The cute thing about muta is, if you contract it with a momina girl, who is truly an ardent Shia (same goes for a momin man who is truly a practicing Shia man), 99% of the time it turns into a permanent marriage.

I've seen people growing a special love, mercy, consideration, a sort of true romantic love springing up between the two, out of infinite mercy of Allah (swt) that He has kept in halal relationships, as soon as they recite the muta formula.

So all non-virgin (legally non-virgin) sisters and brothers, if you have to do muta, step into it with care, because soon you will fall in love with each other, specially if you both are momin in true sense, and would make it permanent down the road.

And all those who don't agree with it, or mistakenly think it is demeaning for women etc., you don't know what you are missing in future.

May be its one of the sirr of Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì, because He loves momineen making long term families.

Edited by Waiting for HIM, 09 October 2012 - 09:18 PM.

[forte]

Mutah is purely for sex 99% of the time which is pleasure and relief. It is not right to suggest to girls that it is probably going to lead to permanent so we should be honest and not say this.

[Waiting for HIM]

forte, on 09 October 2012 - 09:44 PM, said:

Mutah is purely for sex 99% of the time which is pleasure and relief. It is not right to suggest to girls that it is probably going to lead to permanent so we should be honest and not say this.

Whenever you look Islam from the perspective of Indian, Pagan, or other man made satanic influenced cultures, you will get wrong answers.

1. In Islam sex is not BAD, in fact highly encouraged, as long as its is done with a halal (legal) partner
2. Sex is not something which is only for the pleasure of the MAN. Women enjoy it too.
3. Pleasure and Relief are the right for both genders - man and woman

Marriage (timed till few days or timed till death) is more for the protection of the woman than for the man.
Marriage (timed till few days or timed till death) is a blessing and not a burden on any party.
Marriage (timed till few days or timed till death) is for the safeguard of the children born out of the marriage.

None of the above is guaranteed in prostituion illegal (Nevada style) or legal, such as Misyar (Sunni way of legalized prostitution) or Sunni marriage contract in which a woman can be kicked out in the middle of night by uttering three Talaq.

[Bored..]

I get mutah. Short term marriage done in a halal way with similar contractual obligations as long term marriage all done under the institution of halal Islamic sanctity BUT what happens if you later discover that the girl falls pregnant what happens to the children? What if the boy was travelling and is now long gone? The rights of the children? Etc....??

[Aftahb]

Mutah is great, Do it if you can but don't misuse it. Our prophet/ imams will be upset. Plus Western life requires Mutah, Permanent nikkah is scary, the lizard may change color after spring is gone.  So its complicated .

[DoubleAgent4]

Bored.., on 10 October 2012 - 03:50 PM, said:

I get mutah. Short term marriage done in a halal way with similar contractual obligations as long term marriage all done under the institution of halal Islamic sanctity BUT what happens if you later discover that the girl falls pregnant what happens to the children? What if the boy was travelling and is now long gone? The rights of the children? Etc....??

A concise, informative book: http://www.al-islam.org/al-serat/muta/

Edited by Hawraa29, 10 October 2012 - 06:16 PM.

[forte]

Waiting for HIM, on 10 October 2012 - 02:36 PM, said:

Whenever you look Islam from the perspective of Indian, Pagan, or other man made satanic influenced cultures, you will get wrong answers.

1. In Islam sex is not BAD, in fact highly encouraged, as long as its is done with a halal (legal) partner
2. Sex is not something which is only for the pleasure of the MAN. Women enjoy it too.
3. Pleasure and Relief are the right for both genders - man and woman

Marriage (timed till few days or timed till death) is more for the protection of the woman than for the man.
Marriage (timed till few days or timed till death) is a blessing and not a burden on any party.
Marriage (timed till few days or timed till death) is for the safeguard of the children born out of the marriage.

None of the above is guaranteed in prostituion illegal (Nevada style) or legal, such as Misyar (Sunni way of legalized prostitution) or Sunni marriage contract in which a woman can be kicked out in the middle of night by uttering three Talaq.

I did not say sex was bad so you are jumping to say something that is not there.
My point was not to give it a dimension that it does not have which is a lead to permanent marriage which many girls see it is for. You must be honest.
Woemen/girls are more like to have emotional interest and thoughts of future which may not be there. To suggest it as a lead to perm marriage as a lead to mutah is dishonest. Mutah is good but be noble and righteous and honest but not a scammer. Misuse of mutah is common and it needs to be pointed out.

[Waiting for HIM]

forte, on 10 October 2012 - 06:44 PM, said:

I did not say sex was bad so you are jumping to say something that is not there.
My point was not to give it a dimension that it does not have which is a lead to permanent marriage which many girls see it is for. You must be honest.
Woemen/girls are more like to have emotional interest and thoughts of future which may not be there. To suggest it as a lead to perm marriage as a lead to mutah is dishonest. Mutah is good but be noble and righteous and honest but not a scammer. Misuse of mutah is common and it needs to be pointed out.

Over 20 perm marriages in my community in past 3 years, all are done after 6 month muta, with non sexual clause.

To save women from being manipulated into marriage (timed for few days or till death) with bad men, Islam makes it obligatory to seek father's or wali's permission.

Yes, muta is misused. Other HIGHLY misused Islamic ahkam are:
1. Nikah to marry for citizenships, for hiding rapes or fornications among Sunnis, to steal land or wealth
2. Jihad for terrorism, for occupying lands, for diamonds, for oil, for communism, for capitalism
3. Hajj for show off, for smuggling goods back and forth, for money laundering, for hiding business taxes
4. Salat-ul-Juma to incite people for hatred, mob killings
5. Beards to show off and hide the satan inside your heart and character
6. Hijab to hide immodesty in heart, to increase chances to get married to a pious Muslim man etc.

Does not mean we should abandon them, defame them, teach Muslim women to hate them etc.

Edited by Waiting for HIM, 10 October 2012 - 07:25 PM.

[forte]

Waiting for HIM, on 10 October 2012 - 07:21 PM, said:

Over 20 perm marriages in my community in past 3 years, all are done after 6 month muta, with non sexual clause.

To save women from being manipulated into marriage (timed for few days or till death) with bad men, Islam makes it obligatory to seek father's or wali's permission.

Yes, muta is misused. Other HIGHLY misused Islamic ahkam are:
1. Nikah to marry for citizenships, for hiding rapes or fornications among Sunnis, to steal land or wealth
2. Jihad for terrorism, for occupying lands, for fighting king's wars, for diamonds, for oil, for communism, for capitalism
3. Hajj for show off, for smuggling goods back and forth, for money laundering, for hiding business taxes
4. Salat-ul-Juma to incite people for hatred, mob killings

Does not mean we should abandon them, defame them, teach Muslim women to hate them etc.

It is irrelevant to point out misuses in other areas.  The point is that Mutah is often seen (and subtely promoted by the scammers) as a promise for permanent marriage by girls and it is not a promise of perm as it is a temporary with no sub contracts. Great that your neighbourhood is uses mutah to learn about each other before perma marriage but you do not know the muthas that do not go to perm marriage as they are quiet and the results of these are not always good. Mutah is too often misused and trying to compare to other misuses does not make it any less misused. Be clear and honest about mutah and not say it is better than other misuses as it stands on its own.

Women are easily manipulated. Promoting being clear and honest about intention will lessen manipulation.

Edited by forte, 10 October 2012 - 07:30 PM.