19 replies to this topic

[Follower]

Female speakers adressing male crowds seems to have become a little more common nowadays. Also, there seems to be less segregation at religious events (and among muslimeen in general).

What do you guys think about:

-female speakers adressing mixed crowds

-lack of segregation at religious conferences/seminars/events

-lack of segregation among muslims in general (i.e when visiting each other, during weddings etc..)

-female anchors on religious tv channels


A lot of people might think it's extreme to not be favorable to these things, but essentially Islam is a conservative religion and has strict rules and regulations about segregation and interactions between the genders.

Perhaps moving to more liberal societies has made muslims become liberal?

EDIT: It would be helpful if people could also bring forward rulings/narrations to support their arguments.

Edited by Follower, 15 August 2012 - 11:43 AM.

[Aftahb]

Its harram. WHen imams daughters never spoke unless it ws sham or karbala.. then who gives the rite to these birdy?

Its all show off money magnet .. i knw the lead women reciters in somewhere come frm money hungry bg. lol  i will not say the group name.

IN conservative family women dont even speak loud, even religious processions r done with voice in-house boundary.

Most moslem hve modified islam as they hve become more western, just look at the whole zionist acceptance. Lets drink coke and enjoy pizza!

Edited by Aftahb, 15 August 2012 - 12:03 PM.

[coldcow]

Wouldn't the hijab allow females to address mixed gatherings?

[-Enlightened]

Salam Alaikom


I'm a female speaker .. Recently became one . ( I'm giving my next lecture next month Inshallah!) and I also know sister zahra Al-alawi on ahlulbayt TV that is a female speaker..she is doing an amazing Job in representing Islam. Mashallah!

I don't like the people that have a traditional view  . It is NOT haram.  Just because female speakers weren't traditionally common at the time of the prophet doesn't make it haram..

I agree that Sayeda Fatima and Sayeda zainab only spoke in public when there was no one else to speak ..but let's imagine that Fatima and zainab were present today, living in the west, in 2012 .. Would they support female speaking in public ? of course they would ! There lacks a big amount of muslim speakers in the west and i believe that in this context, women can take the lead.  Islam has a very bad image on women these days, they think that women are oppressed and can't speak ..we have to show them the truth and not keep us locked

Women have to show their Hijab, they have to be proud of raising this flag of Islam that is on their head and representing it correctly .. of course,when i go on stage , i don't flirt .. and i don't make my voice sound girly .. That's what hijab is for.. a veil between us and the non-mahram.   As long as it is observed 100% , there is no problem in a female speaking in public and giving her opinions

Edited by -Enlightened, 15 August 2012 - 12:29 PM.

[wonderer]

I think it's great for women speakers to address mixed crowds because there are topics that men don't seem to understand or present well. Plus, when a woman speaks she brings something different to the table. There r women lecturers in uni and they do wonderful job, so why not include them in a religious setting? It's good to have both genders speak each has their style

[ßÑíã]

Salam

I'll say as long as the girl puts on a strong voice (like the news women on shia channels), and she keeps chastity and modesty, it seems pretty fine. However, these are just personal speculations, we are yet to hear some fatwas on this, if anybody has any?...

[GodBlessAli]

I read somewhere that it's not haraam. But men are not supposed to hear their voices in a melodic manner, so no Nawhas, Nasheed, etc.

[BaqiyatullahY]

Let me add some facts on history:

Quote

Lady Zainab played an important role in Sham in the court of Yazid. Yazid prepared a gathering for all people to witness his triumph over Imam Husain.  The people did not know that their accursed leader had slaughtered the son of the Holy Prophet because his cronies had covered the facts.  They had spread rumours that the people killed had revolted against the caliph.

Lady Zainab however, saved Islam and exposed Yazid's treachery.  She revealed the true personality of Imam Husain.

Lady Zainab's speech in the court of Yazid is an example of sublime eloquence. In it she revealed to the people that they were not ordinary slaves of war,  but rather they were the progeny of the Holy Prophet.  This speech must rank high in the list with such speeches as that which her mother Fatima al-Zahra delivered in the Prophet's Mosque when the first two caliphs usurped the land of Fadak from her.  

Lady Zainab delivered a speech on three occasions.

• The first is when she arrived in Kufa only to see the people who betrayed Imam Husain crying..
  
• The second stage of her mission was executed in the court of Ibn Ziyad.  Her words were directed at the accursed Ibn Ziyad after he had addressed her saying, "God be thanked that he has killed you, dishonoured you and unveiled your wrong and false clan…."
  
• The last stage of Zainab's mission was to expose then destroy Yazid.  After she saw Yazid disrespecting the head of her brother with a cane.

source: http://www.almujtaba...nab/000908.html

Sayed Zaynab  saved Imam Zayn ul Abideen with her speech, and also safe-guarded Islam by assuming the task of spreading and delivering the message of the martyrs of the Karbala Movement to the people of her time and the generation to come.
The Noble Lady of Islam recited the first majliss-e-Aza.

And this is how Azadari is still alive today, and it's a great honors for muslims to follow this great lady as an example in their lives.

I don't need more evidences, to say it should be allowed for a female speaker to give a lecture adressing mixed crowds with some conditions.

Edited by cendrillon, 15 August 2012 - 10:43 PM.

[Follower]

Thanks for your replies.

Quote

but let's imagine that Fatima and zainab were present today, living in the west, in 2012 .. Would they support female speaking in public ? of course they would !

I don't think so sister. Let's not forget that Sitna Fatimah and Sitna Zainab DID speak, but only in the most extreme circumstances. Among the pious and religious scholarly families of our time, once again it is only in the most urgent circumstances that women have spoken, such as the martyr Amina bint al huda. Otherwise you will find no instances of women, despite their high level of islamic studies, speaking in mixed crowds.

If anything, it appears to be a Western phenomenon.

Quote

What do you think the hijab is for?  If everything was 100% segregated and men and women could never see or interact with each other, the hijab would be irrelevant.

The hijab is for situations where it becomes necessary, which is pretty much whenever a woman leaves her house. Regardless of the hijab, our religion strongly restricts interactions between the genders.

In religious societies, even when people visit one another the men and women sit in different rooms. Among muslimeen in the West, this seems to have become rare.

Quote

I think it's great for women speakers to address mixed crowds because there are topics that men don't seem to understand or present well.

I'm strongly in favour of women addressing female gatherings. I'm not too sure which topics you might be referring to that men would be incapable of presenting to other men.

Edited by Follower, 16 August 2012 - 04:53 AM.

[3laweyaZainabiya]

-Enlightened, on 15 August 2012 - 12:25 PM, said:

Salam Alaikom


I'm a female speaker .. Recently became one . ( I'm giving my next lecture next month Inshallah!) and I also know sister zahra Al-alawi on ahlulbayt TV that is a female speaker..she is doing an amazing Job in representing Islam. Mashallah!

I don't like the people that have a traditional view  . It is NOT haram.  Just because female speakers weren't traditionally common at the time of the prophet doesn't make it haram..

I agree that Sayeda Fatima and Sayeda zainab only spoke in public when there was no one else to speak ..but let's imagine that Fatima and zainab were present today, living in the west, in 2012 .. Would they support female speaking in public ? of course they would ! There lacks a big amount of muslim speakers in the west and i believe that in this context, women can take the lead.  Islam has a very bad image on women these days, they think that women are oppressed and can't speak ..we have to show them the truth and not keep us locked

Women have to show their Hijab, they have to be proud of raising this flag of Islam that is on their head and representing it correctly .. of course,when i go on stage , i don't flirt .. and i don't make my voice sound girly .. That's what hijab is for.. a veil between us and the non-mahram.   As long as it is observed 100% , there is no problem in a female speaking in public and giving her opinions

What she said!
Lol

I honestly think that as long as the female abides by the laws of Allah (swt) there isn't a problem.
It's all about the way she presents herself.

Also, my father is very cultural yet when I was invited to give a little speech in front of a large group people at the mosque a while ago, he didn't have a problem.

So yeah...
Touché to this lady here.

[gajarkahalva]

Regarding Zainab a.s and her speaking after Kerbala in the court of Yazid. That was an 'extreme circumstance' as 'Follower' said.

I heard in majalis' that after Kerbala she spread the message of what truly happened etc by giving lectures etc, but this was to women only congregations. The women would then go and inform their husbands. Edit - The reference is in this book - The Victory of Truth: The Life of Zaynab bint 'Ali:

"Whenever they stopped, the tents of the men were pitched a mile away from those of the women so that the women could move unhindered and unobserved by strangers. Gatherings of mourners were held wherever they stopped and many people came, listened and learned the truth.
..................
Wherever the caravan stopped on its way to Medina a majlis-e-aza' was held. When the city was in sight Zaynab [a.s.] bade the women alight from their camels and pitch their tents. Black flags were raised. On learning of their arrival the people of Medina came out in droves, and once again Zaynab [a.s.] recounted to them the events at Karbala and the hardships of their subsequent captivity. ....."


It's my personal view that the lack of segregation is a western thing and is not good. Neither or having women presenters on tv side by side with males. You even get a man and woman on the 'morning shows' on some channels, which exactly reflects western 'morning shows'.

Also a saying from Fatima al Zahra[a.s]: ‘the best thing for a woman is not to see men, and not to be seen by men’. I think this should give us an idea of what is the best position.

Edited by gajarkahalva, 16 August 2012 - 09:21 AM.

[ßÑíã]

cendrillon, on 15 August 2012 - 10:38 PM, said:

The Noble Lady of Islam recited the first majliss-e-Aza.

Which majlis aza is this? Expand if you can please...

[Sapphire]

As long as the ladies observe hijab and wear abaya then there is no harm in it. But perception of people varies. If I talk about my household, I would not allow my sisters or daughters(in future) to be presenters on TV or radio. They can be announcers if it is a "JUST FEMALE" event. Otherwise a big "NO NO".

[-Enlightened]

Follower, on 16 August 2012 - 04:46 AM, said:

I don't think so sister. Let's not forget that Sitna Fatimah and Sitna Zainab DID speak, but only in the most extreme circumstances. Among the pious and religious scholarly families of our time, once again it is only in the most urgent circumstances that women have spoken, such as the martyr Amina bint al huda. Otherwise you will find no instances of women, despite their high level of islamic studies, speaking in mixed crowds.

Salam alaikom


1- that's because it wasn't culturally common for a woman, living anywhere in the world to speak..even if she lived in the west..it was not culturally common ...
this is like asking ''fatima (as ) and zainab(as) did not work ..amina bint al huda either.. should women be allowed to work?''  

2- Define 'extreme situation' . From what i can see, your definition of extreme situation is only when a member of the family is martyred that a woman can give a speech ..
my definition of 'extreme situation' is whenever there lacks a big amount of muslim men speakers, when people of the west are having a bad image on islam ,when they think that women are oppressed ., when the flag of islam isn't raised ..such as today .. women have their duty to take the lead.

Edited by -Enlightened, 16 August 2012 - 11:13 AM.

[Follower]

Quote

that's because it wasn't culturally common for a woman, living anywhere in the world to speak..even if she lived in the west..it was not culturally common .

this is like asking ''fatima (as ) and zainab(as) did not work ..amina bint al huda either.. should women be allowed to work?''

Sister, Amina bint al huda was martyred in 1980 along with her brother, the shaheed, Sayyed Muhammad Baqir al Sadr. She is from our times. Even today in Islamic societies women are not speaking to mixed crowds. I feel that we have been effected by the influence of the liberal society we live in. Wallahu A'lam.

[-Enlightened]

Follower, on 16 August 2012 - 11:11 AM, said:

Sister, Amina bint al huda was martyred in 1980 along with her brother, the shaheed, Sayyed Muhammad Baqir al Sadr. She is from our times. Even today in Islamic societies women are not speaking to mixed crowds. I feel that we have been effected by the influence of the liberal society we live in. Wallahu A'lam.

In the place where Amina lived in , in the society where Amina lived in .. personally if I also lived in her country, i wouldn't go on public either .. why ? simply because it's not an extreme circumstance and also because everyone has a good image on islam.. i don't see why there would be anything to fix .

anyway , Re-read my above post as I have added something else ..

[Follower]

Quote

What is wrong with being influenced by the societies we live in, provided we are observing the hijab Allah made obligatory on us?

There are different types of influences sister, positive and negative. Furthermore, I'm not pointing at cases of liberalism when dealing with non-Muslims, rather within Muslimeen themselves (weddings, religious events, social events, visiting one another etc...).

Quote

2- Define 'extreme situation' . From what i can see, your definition of extreme situation is only when a member of the family is martyred that a woman can give a speech ..

Essentially these were situations where nobody was saying anything whatsoever, and it was absolutely necessary to speak.

Quote

my definition of 'extreme situation' is whenever there lacks a big amount of muslim men speakers, when people of the west are having a bad image on islam ,when they think that women are oppressed ., when the flag of islam isn't raised ..such as today .. women have their duty to take the lead.

This would partially explain the speaking (although generally I see it happening more in Muslim-only environments, where this explanation doesn't hold). It still doesn't explain the lack of segregation in social and religious events among muslimeen.

Coming back to your argument, many people insist that the headscarf itself is a sign of oppression. Surely we aren't going to start asking our women to remove them or disguise them with bandanas (which wouldn't cover everything anyway)?

Wallahu A'lam

[Allahuakbar]

In the West, it is important for sisters to stay active (while observing Islamic laws) in the community because of the pretentious Western idea that women are oppressed in Islam. Personally, I think as long as the topics are reasonable and the woman is piously dressed, there is no issue with giving a speech, etc. It's not like she's singing or reciting the Quran in tajweed... However, during weddings it's best to have segregated weddings as women like to adorn themselves during these events. It's best to avoid fitna.

[Aftahb]

Islamicaly its not allowed. The reason why bibi zanaib spoke bc at the time. She was forced in Yazeed's palace. It was a horrible time for them.   Bibi zainab was forced. She was without chaddor.
LOL ppl here r using it for their personal support.  

"The western mind.. aka women's rights "