257 replies to this topic

[Jaysro]

I've learned so much today, thank you!!May Allah guide us all inshAlaah:)

PS:  an interesting thought:

‎"If you have a belief and you come against an experience which the belief says is not possible, or, the experience is such that you have to drop the belief, what are you going to choose — the belief or the experience? The tendency of the mind is to choose the belief, to forget about the experience. That’s how you have been missing many opportunities when God has knocked at your door."

Salaam

[Wing]

AliHussainFaraji, on 17 August 2012 - 05:07 PM, said:

Says the Prophet Muhammad . I did not delcare anything authentic, those hadiths are authentic according to both Shia and Sunnis. They are both from the strongest chain and are corroborated more than two dozen times.

lol you're funny. 1 side declares something authentic and comming straight from the prophet while the other rejects it. Play that hypocrite game with the sheep will ya?

AliHussainFaraji, on 17 August 2012 - 05:07 PM, said:

He did step forward. Maybe you should learn what you're talking about before you speak.

"Beware! By Allah the son of Abu Quhafah (Abu Bakr) dressed himself with it (the caliphate) and he certainly knew that my position in relation to it was the same as the position of the axis in relation to the hand-mill."
Nahj al-Balagha, sermon 3

"By Allah I shall not be like the badger, which feigns sleep on continuous (sound of) stone-throwing till he who is in search of it finds it or he who is on the look out for it overpowers it. Rather, I shall ever strike the deviators from truth with the help of those who advance towards it, and the sinners and doubters with the help of those who listen to me and obey, till my day (of death) comes. By Allah I have been continually deprived of my right from the day the Prophet died till today."
Nahj al-Balagha, Sermon 6



It's hilarious how you would say not to mock someone from years ago while mockingly saying "almighty ali." Do you ever say anything that's not ironic or hypocritical? YOU'RE the one who needs to think out of the box, because to YOU are the one who rejects anything outside of Sunnism.

That is to show you he was nothing special(just like any other human except the prophet).

I thought Ali's way was Allah's way, why didn't Allah make him first caliph then since Abu bakr and Omar were CLEAR Infidels? That's because the verse I provided about Saul is referring to AbuBakr/Omar. Compare it this way: The ones who admired Ali, being the jews who saw their self better than Saul. "Certainly Ali is DIVINE" yet he came 4th....

AliHussainFaraji, on 17 August 2012 - 05:07 PM, said:

Maybe you should learn to read before you talk. Scroll back up the page, then read the entire post (it seems like you're too scared to do so).

Off-topic and nonsense, but ofc that's what everyone does when they don't know what to say.

AliHussainFaraji, on 17 August 2012 - 05:07 PM, said:

Surah As-Sajda, Ayah 24-25:
{24} "And amongst them We appointed imams to guide [the people] by Our command, when they had been patient and had conviction in Our signs."
{25} "Indeed your Lord will judge between them on the Day of Resurrection concerning that about which they used to differ."

Sunni rebuttal: N/A

This also backs the Shia belief that Imams are divinely appointed, and not elected as many of the Sunni Caliphs were. It is also important to note that these are also individual Ayahs.

Surah Al-Anfaal, Ayah 75:
"And those who believed afterwards and migrated, and waged jihad along with you, they belong to you; but the blood relatives are more entitled to inherit from one another in the Book of Allah. Indeed Allah has knowledge of all things."

This Ayah is clearly talking to the Prophet , as it is talking about migrating (i.e. to Medinah) and waging Jihad (i.e. the people who migrated to Medinah and waged Jihad with the Prophet against the polytheists). Ayah 70 also starts with "O Prophet!" and Ayah 75 is a continuation of the same sequence.

Surah Al-Anfaal:
{70} "O Prophet! Say to the captives who are in your hands, 'If Allah finds any good in your hearts, He will give you [something which is] better than what has been taken away from you, and He will forgive you, and Allah is all-forgiving, all-merciful.'"
{71} "But if they seek to betray you, then they have already betrayed Allah earlier, and He gave [you] power over them; and Allah is all-knowing, all-wise."
{72} "Indeed those who have believed and migrated and waged jihad with their possessions and persons in the way of Allah, and those who gave [them] shelter and help —they are heirs of one another. As for those who have believed but did not migrate, you have no heirdom in relation to them whatsoever until they migrate. Yet if they ask your help for the sake of religion, it is incumbent on you to help them, excepting against a people with whom you have a treaty; and Allah sees best what you do."
{73} "As for the faithless, they are allies of one another. Unless you do the same, there will be turmoil on the earth and great corruption."
{74} "Those who have believed, migrated, and waged jihad in the way of Allah, and those who gave them shelter and help, it is they who are truly the faithful. For them shall be forgiveness and a noble provision."
{75} "And those who believed afterwards and migrated, and waged jihad along with you, they belong to you; but the blood relatives are more entitled to inherit from one another in the Book of Allah. Indeed Allah has knowledge of all things.

AliHussainFaraji, on 17 August 2012 - 05:07 PM, said:

Are you saying we should't follow the Prophet because of how long he has been gone? Do you realize that the Quran is also 'old'? And by your same logic, we should follow Abuy Bakr even though he was around hundreds of years ago? Do you realize you have to follow what the Prophet says until the Day of Judgement? No, I'm sure you would rather follow what Abu Bakr says instead.

The verse about imams proves nothing, it's a general life-style, we have imams up to this day all over the place...But ofc from a deluded POV everything is a "sign" lmao. The rest of the verses have nothing to prove, random much?

Where did I ever mention that? (How many times do I have to repeat this....)Just because someone wrote "this is from the prophet" Doesn't Mean It IS. Many hadiths are right, but there are so many fakes(THEIR SOLE PURPOSE IS TO SPREAD HATE). To be on the safe side, don't take any of them seriously. Especially when you have a sheep mentality(90% of the ppl) -__________-
Ofc I realize the Quran is old, but it's safe cause Allah himself mentioned it(in the quran). It is far above any crook who alter things to their liking. Till this day, there is only 1 version.

Hello, brainz? Abu bakr lived around the same time as the prophet, how is that "by your logic"?? Oh w8...this sounds familiar, these hadiths you know.....
I'm just wondering how the hell you came up with Abu bakr. That line has hatred spreading for sure(DING?? Maybe next time..).

AliHussainFaraji, on 17 August 2012 - 05:07 PM, said:

Congratulations, you just proved my point. That very quote says that "Indeed, Allah has chosen him over you and has increased him abundantly in knowledge and stature. And Allah gives His sovereignty to whom He wills." Meaning Allah chose/appointed him, people didn't vote for him like they did with the Sunni Caliphs.

Lol smart one. Didn't I mention deluded? History Recorded ALI as the 4th Caliph, how the hell did Allah choose him first when he came 4th?? So....(im talking slow for you) when your haters wanted Ali to be the first, Allah chose someone over him. (DING?? ok not yet...)

AliHussainFaraji, on 17 August 2012 - 05:07 PM, said:

Firstly, that's not part of the Shahada. Secondly, Sunnis changed the Athan by removing 'Hayya- al Khair al amal'. So what's it going to be? Are you going to say changing the athan is okay now so you can continue being Sunni?

Hold on! Not so fast my friend, before accusing someone else let's discuss yours. I got that from Wiki, and it's written everywhere, and YOU'RE saying it is NOT part of the Shahada? You must be the Mahdi *.* or a deluded bedouin..... funny how you keep calling me sunni, when I clearly stated i'm muslim with no idiotic faction (sect, since you don't know what faction means..) And let me tell you, changing shahada without 100% proof is faaaaaaaaaaaar worse than changing athan - if what you say is true in the first place.

AliHussainFaraji, on 17 August 2012 - 05:07 PM, said:

Uhh, what?

Exactly. Guess you won't find out running in the hamster wheel Ah-ah.

AliHussainFaraji, on 17 August 2012 - 05:07 PM, said:

Firstly, facts are not accusations. It is a fact the Sunnis killed Ahlul Bayt. Secondly, move on from what? Kaffir killing Allah's servants? Why, so you can hide the reality and continue worshiping Abu Bakr? The fact is you want to forget about those realities because it shows the kufr of your Sunni leaders and shows they were on the wrong path.

Yea, it's been going for 1400 years now, heard enough accusations of both sides. Dumbasses.
I see hatred, someone's jelly because someone came before his beloved Ali. oh btw, I enjoyed you bearing that sin (red markings). Guess I won't have to mention that i'm not sunni, he won't see it anyway. Shia = islam. Anything else = kafir. I said one-way thinking before right?

AliHussainFaraji, on 17 August 2012 - 05:07 PM, said:

Those sources are authentic by both Sunnis and Shias. You're just making up desperate excuses so because you don't want to be Muslim and want to worship Abu Bakr instead. And no, people misled their nations by what YOU'RE doing. Saying to reject what their Prophets say and forget religion and make up their own religions instead.

Surah Al-Mutaffifin:
{10} Woe to the deniers on that day,
{11} who deny the Day of Retribution;
{12} and none denies it except every sinful transgressor.
{13} When Our signs are recited to him, he says, ‘Myths of the ancients!’
{14} No indeed! Rather their hearts have been sullied[967] by what they have been earning.
{15} No indeed! They will be alienated from their Lord on that day.
{16} Then they will indeed enter hell,
{17} then told, ‘This is what you used to deny!’

But I guess you believe the Quran is too old to follow too, right?

Again, funny you say that line. When all I came with was the Quran and nothing else. But I guess you're trying to use the tactic "repeat a lie and it will be believed over-time".
That verse is reciting the Quran, not a hadith written by a crook.

AliHussainFaraji, on 17 August 2012 - 05:07 PM, said:

Same guy who rejects proof from the Quran and Sunnah and starts talking out of his ass is saying it's hard to show someone else proof? LMAO

^Right there (repeating the lie tactic) trying to convince yourself? When (again) all I came to you with was verses of the Quran? "Making fun of someone" sounds familiar to me 2...and yes, it is proven, very hard to show a deluded person proof. I explicitly hinted to jump of the hamster wheel /sigh
All you see is AliAliAliAliAliAliAliAliAliAliAliAli, so I should have expected these kind of responses. The reply on Saul was hilarious, i'll give you that.

AliHussainFaraji, on 17 August 2012 - 05:07 PM, said:

Can you read? I provided the sources in the OP. Oh right, you're too scared to read it.

Sahih Bukhari Book 89:329
Sahih Muslim Book 20:4477-4483
Sunan Abu Dawood Book 36:4266
Sunan al-Tirmidhi Hadith 2149 (numbering of al-Alamiyyah)
Musnad-e-Ahmad, vol 5, pg 87

If you actually did read it, then I have no choice but to assume you're retarded because you keep asking for stuff that's already there, like the sources you just asked for.

I meant the actual source, the original version written by the first person? *aaaahhhhh SFX*

AliHussainFaraji, on 17 August 2012 - 05:07 PM, said:

Direct quotes from the Prophet are the writer's point of view? Are you mentally challenged? They are corroborated by more than two dozen people and are coming from the strongest chain (authenticity). They are authentic according to both Sunnis and real Muslims.

Funny, when you have a line saying: " I heard the prophet say" ... "and there was a line I didn't hear"
Those are "direct" quotes? So writers were deaf when the prophet was speaking? As I said, the writer would alter it slightly to his liking, and the next one does the same, till you barely recognize the hadith. /yawn

You see, it's easy to talk in an offensive way. I know it is hard to stay calm when you're proven wrong, and everything you stood on. When you learn how to talk in a civil way, feel free (actual proof needed ofc...)

[Wing]

Muhammad Ibrahim, on 17 August 2012 - 05:12 PM, said:

Wing just admitted he doesn't follow the Quran or Sunnah. Ya Allah...

I guess the only gods this shirk kaffir believes in are Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman. I wonder what his excuse will be before Allah.

Funny, so far every Shi'i I prove wrong or he can't answer my questions, starts throwing these words. For real? When I said I am muslim with no faction (NOT SUNNI)? Want something CLEAR to add to the rest of my proof?  If these words are what you are being teached from your hadiths, then 100000000%, Shia is based on hatred, and hatred is not from Allah.
Red: You bear yet another sin.

Muhammad Ibrahim, on 17 August 2012 - 05:12 PM, said:

Surah Nuh:
{21} Noah said, ‘My Lord! They have disobeyed me, following someone whose wealth and children only add to his loss,
{22} and they have devised an outrageous plot.
{23} They say, ‘‘Do not abandon your gods. Do not abandon Wadd, nor Suws, nor Yaghuth, Ya'uq and Nasr,’’
{24} and already they have led many astray. Do not increase the wrongdoers in anything but error.’
{25} They were drowned because of their iniquities, then made to enter a Fire, and they did not find for themselves any helpers besides Allah.

In your case Ayah 23 would be:
"They say, ‘‘Do not abandon your gods. Do not abandon Abu Bakr, nor Umar, nor Uthman, Muawiyah and Yazid,’’

Lol, truth in sight ppl start to panic and talk out of their ass(literally)

before you throw off-topic, random verses, I'm doing this favor for you yet again.

My only hint is jump off the hamster wheel and look at it from a different angle, perception is written in the quran, so pay attention(this is the last time).

Sura al-Ma'idah:
And Allah had already taken a covenant from the Children of Israel, and We delegated from among them twelve leaders. And Allah said, "I am with you. If you establish prayer and give zakah and believe in My messengers and support them and loan Allah a goodly loan, I will surely remove from you your misdeeds and admit you to gardens beneath which rivers flow. But whoever of you disbelieves after that has certainly strayed from the soundness of the way."

I have no reason to investigate Shia in detail while the pillars it stands on are broken. This is but a simple proof contradicting your basic Shia, it is one among the many in my prev posts in this thread.

So my question to you is, can you find the exact line in the Quran saying "and We delegated from among the muslims Twelve leaders" < find this line in the quran and show me, then I'll reconsider investigating. Know that you have no excuse, it is written about the jews so certainly it would be written(as clear) about muslims.

BUT, if you can't find it....know that the first person who introduced shia was a BIG liar. And when you have your doubts (certainly an intelligent shi'i would.) When you pray to Allah, ask him: "pls guide me to the right path" and inshallah it will be clear to you.

These are my last comments to you (Though i'll still reply if you write something dumb lol), notice that you have no excuse when you stand before Allah on the day of resurrection, I gave you clear signs DIRECTLY from the QURAN in all my prev posts. EVEN the REACTIONS that will come after those signs, also DIRECTLY from the QURAN. So pls don't fool yourself, if you know by now and don't go by it like the jews did, know that hellfire will be extreme...

Ofc not entire shia is wrong, I see them as muslims, just ....how to say ....mislead. (Those of you overliking Ali, pls reconsider, you may not notice...) I'm sure most of you mean it in a good way...

Before you assume yet again, I AM MUSLIM, NOT SUNNI NOR SHIA NOR ANY OTHER DUMB FACTION.

Jaysro, on 17 August 2012 - 07:42 PM, said:

‎"If you have a belief and you come against an experience which the belief says is not possible, or, the experience is such that you have to drop the belief, what are you going to choose — the belief or the experience? The tendency of the mind is to choose the belief, to forget about the experience. That’s how you have been missing many opportunities when God has knocked at your door."

Very wise words. This is of extreme importance, tyvm.

[coldcow]

Wing, on 17 August 2012 - 09:53 PM, said:

Before you assume yet again, I AM MUSLIM, NOT SUNNI NOR SHIA NOR ANY OTHER DUMB FACTION.

I like to think of myself the same.  Segregating ourselves into groups on causes us to look more and more at our differences than our similarities.

[Righteous]

@wing the brother wrote with references and your respond with wild conjecture and incoherent reasoning sprinkled with populist slogans...any educated person will infer that you are either too illiterate and/or bigoted to even fathom his arguments

@coldcow brother i think you are here for genuine learning so don't get misled by Ignoramuses like wing and objectively look at his sloganeerism and lack of intellectual/educated responses.

[Wing]

Righteous, on 18 August 2012 - 12:34 AM, said:

@wing the brother wrote with references and your respond with wild conjecture and incoherent reasoning sprinkled with populist slogans...any educated person will infer that you are either too illiterate and/or bigoted to even fathom his arguments

@coldcow brother i think you are here for genuine learning so don't get misled by Ignoramuses like wing and objectively look at his sloganeerism and lack of intellectual/educated responses.

Dude, what you claim(not even right) were nothing more than a cherry on a pie. What's more of a reference, a Hadith or a verse from the Quran?
My actual responds were verses DIRECTLY FROM the Quran. And since he couldn't find responds to the words of God, he started heating up(throwing personal insults). But I guess you didn't read the prev page?

...? Why are you trying to pull someone to "your side"? Let ppl think for their own, from every possible angle, not from a narrow/closed mind. And YOU are talking about intellectual? Intellectual...is starting wars over mere fairy tales (some if not most hadiths) for more than 1400 years, and up to this day neither side came to an educated response? There are NO SIDES in actual islam, to prove my point:

Sahih InternationalAnd hold firmly to the rope of Allah all together and do not become divided. And remember the favor of Allah upon you - when you were enemies and He brought your hearts together and you became, by His favor, brothers. And you were on the edge of a pit of the Fire, and He saved you from it. Thus does Allah make clear to you His verses that you may be guided.

3:104
to top

Sahih InternationalAnd let there be [arising] from you a nation inviting to [all that is] good, enjoining what is right and forbidding what is wrong, and those will be the successful.

3:105
to top

Sahih InternationalAnd do not be like the ones who became divided and differed after the clear proofs had come to them. And those will have a great punishment.

3:106
to top

Sahih InternationalOn the Day [some] faces will turn white and [some] faces will turn black. As for those whose faces turn black, [to them it will be said], "Did you disbelieve after your belief? Then taste the punishment for what you used to reject."

3:107
to top

Sahih International
But as for those whose faces will turn white, [they will be] within the mercy of Allah . They will abide therein eternally.

If Shia was the origin as you claim, why is there an addition to shahada(1 of the 5 pillars) concerning Ali? Yet Ali's name is not mentioned in the quran, LET ALONE FOLLOW HIM.
Allah has been clear on what to follow, all of them mentioned by name. So pls, don't start with your deluded signs from the quran. They come from a narrow mind, even if you do not notice. Perfect example(starting to talk in circles here....) :

Surah Al-Ma'ida, Ayah 19:
"The Jews say, ‘Allah’s hand is tied up.’ Tied up be their hands, and cursed be they for what they say! Rather, His hands are wide open: He bestows as He wishes. Surely many of them will be increased by what has been sent to you from your Lord in rebellion and unfaith, and We have cast enmity and hatred amongst them until the Day of Resurrection. Every time they ignite the flames of war, Allah puts them out. They seek to cause corruption on the earth, and Allah does not like the agents of corruption."

Now tell me, what SANE person would refer THIS to prayer? This can only be seen from a narrow minded POV...I can see what you're getting at, but I have different angles. I honestly Laughed out Loud.

If you didn't figure what it actually means, here goes:
Nobody can see Allah, that is common knowledge...so the jews were talking in a figure of speech. Essentialy meaning: 'Allah is stingy' i.e What's a stingy man? Someone who's hand(singular, i'll get back on this) is "tied" up. [Notice] The jews are refering to 1 single hand here, yet what shia refers with prayer concerns both. This is a reference to the subject of the title, meaning "meal" NOT prayer as you saw from your only POV.

Did I have to explain something THIS simple? So if you can't figure out something like this, I suggest you you start seeing things from a different angle. And if this came from your actual scholars, then.....lol nuff said

[Jaysro]

I'm so happy this conversation has gone this far without anyone giving up like it had been the case for 1300 years.



“Sometimes people hold a core belief that is very strong. When they are
presented with evidence that works against that belief, the new
evidence cannot be accepted. It would create a feeling that is
extremely uncomfortable, called cognitive dissonance. And because it
is so important to protect the core belief, they will rationalize,
ignore and even deny anything that doesn't fit in with the core belief.”
Frantz Fanon

[Muhammad Ibrahim]

Righteous, on 18 August 2012 - 12:34 AM, said:

@wing the brother wrote with references and your respond with wild conjecture and incoherent reasoning sprinkled with populist slogans...any educated person will infer that you are either too illiterate and/or bigoted to even fathom his arguments

@coldcow brother i think you are here for genuine learning so don't get misled by Ignoramuses like wing and objectively look at his sloganeerism and lack of intellectual/educated responses.

Pretty much. He flat out said that he doesn't follow the Quran, and that Sunnis deviated Islam but it's no big deal.

[Wing]

Muhammad Ibrahim, on 18 August 2012 - 11:17 AM, said:

Pretty much. He flat out said that he doesn't follow the Quran, and that Sunnis deviated Islam but it's no big deal.

Deaf, dumb and blind - so they will not return.

Unless you have answers to my questions(from the Quran), I suggest you think twice before you make that claim.

Enjoy~

[AliHussainFaraji]

coldcow, on 17 August 2012 - 11:15 AM, said:

AliHussainFaraji, please post your stuff on this forum and thread: http://forum.bodybui...php?t=143849331

There is a Sunni brother there that is very knowledgeable and I'd like to see what he has to say.  It could be that you were only speaking with Sunnis that didn't know much and panicked.  

I'd post it, but I haven't posted on that forum in so long I can't remember the password.  Also, I can't really provide a defense to the arguments to make, as I'm not as familiar with them as you.  If you think you can defend it with him, I think it would be best if you posted it.

lol The BB forum? Alright, I can make an account and post it there (might take a few days to do so) or you can make an account and post the OP there. Then if there are legitimate replies you want me to respond to you can PM me the username and password here and I'll take over. Which one sounds good to you?

Update: I also posted it on two Sunni forums yesterday. On both accounts the only replies I got were profanity.

coldcow, on 17 August 2012 - 11:22 PM, said:

I like to think of myself the same.  Segregating ourselves into groups on causes us to look more and more at our differences than our similarities.

We're not segregating ourselves from anything. We don't say we are Shia rather than we are Muslim. The only time the word Shia is used is to differentiate from the false beliefs of the created sects. We are the only ones who follow the Quran 100% and follow the authenticated Sunnah 100%. We practice the Islam the Prophet Muhammad practiced, before the deviations of others. The word 'Shia' means follower. Shia Muslim is just another way of saying real Muslim (i.e. follower of Islam).

Surah Al-Qasas, Ayah 15:
"And he (Moses) went into the city at a time when people (of the city) were not watching, so he found therein two men fighting, one being of his Shia and the other being his enemy, and the one who was of his Shia cried out to him for help against the one who was of his enemy. So Moses hit him with his fist, whereupon he expired. He said, ‘This is of Satan’s doing. Indeed he is an enemy, manifestly misguiding.’"

Surah As-Saaffat, Ayah 83:
"And most surely Ibraham was among the Shia of him (i.e. Noah)"

A person can call himself a Muslim instead of a Sunni all he wants, that doesn't make it true. It's not what you call yourself, it's what you believe. If you believe that Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman were the successors of the Prophet , if you don't want believe the Ahlul Bayt are perfect, if you do Wudu contrary to the Quran, etc., then you're a Sunni.  A Christian who believes in the Trinity, believes drinking alcohol is halal and does not believe in the Prophet Muhammad can also call himself a Muslim, that doesn't make it true.

Muhammad Ibrahim, on 18 August 2012 - 11:17 AM, said:

Pretty much. He flat out said that he doesn't follow the Quran, and that Sunnis deviated Islam but it's no big deal.

He's not worth your reply brother. I was all for humoring him until he started blatantly saying it's no big deal to not follow the Quran.

Surah Ya Sin:

{7} "The word has certainly become due against most of them, so they will not have faith."
{8} "Indeed We have put iron collars around their necks, which are up to the chins, so their heads are upturned."
{9} "And We have put a barrier before them and a barrier behind them, then We have blind-folded them, so they do not see."
{10} "It is the same to them whether you warn them or do not warn them, they will not have faith."
{11} "You can only warn someone who follows the Reminder(Quran) and fears the All-beneficent in secret; so give him the good news of forgiveness and a noble reward."

Edited by AliHussainFaraji, 18 August 2012 - 11:53 AM.

[Muhammad Ibrahim]

Wing, on 18 August 2012 - 11:25 AM, said:

Deaf, dumb and blind - so they will not return.

Unless you have answers to my questions(from the Quran), I suggest you think twice before you make that claim.

Enjoy~

What questions from the Quran? All you posted was:

"And hold firmly to the rope of Allah all together and do not become divided. And remember the favor of Allah upon you - when you were enemies and He brought your hearts together and you became, by His favor, brothers. And you were on the edge of a pit of the Fire, and He saved you from it. Thus does Allah make clear to you His verses that you may be guided.

3:104
to top

And let there be [arising] from you a nation inviting to [all that is] good, enjoining what is right and forbidding what is wrong, and those will be the successful.


3:105
to top


Sahih InternationalAnd do not be like the ones who became divided and differed after the clear proofs had come to them. And those will have a great punishment.


3:106
to top



Sahih InternationalOn the Day [some] faces will turn white and [some] faces will turn black. As for those whose faces turn black, [to them it will be said], "Did you disbelieve after your belief? Then taste the punishment for what you used to reject."


3:107
to top




Sahih International
But as for those whose faces will turn white, [they will be] within the mercy of Allah . They will abide therein eternally."

None of which proves your point in any way. In fact it proves Shiasm because Sunnis are the ones who divided while Shias (followers) are the only ones who didn't change Islam.

Wing, on 18 August 2012 - 11:25 AM, said:

If Shia was the origin as you claim, why is there an addition to shahada(1 of the 5 pillars) concerning Ali?

The Shahada is saying you are a witness to Islam. You bear witness that there is no god but Allah, Muhammad is the messenger of Allah, and Ali is waliyyu illah. That's the truth of Islam. You wouldn't have a problem with it if it said Abu Bakr waliyyu illah, obviously, since you don't care that they changed practices and beliefs of the Quran.

Wing, on 18 August 2012 - 11:25 AM, said:

Yet Ali's name is not mentioned in the quran, LET ALONE FOLLOW HIM.

Where is Abu Bakr's name mentioned in the Quran? Ahlul Bayt is mentioned in the Quran (which Allah says he has made perfect), which Ali is a part of.

Wing, on 18 August 2012 - 11:25 AM, said:

Now tell me, what SANE person would refer THIS to prayer? This can only be seen from a narrow minded POV...I can see what you're getting at, but I have different angles. I honestly Laughed out Loud.

A person who understands that the Quran has deeper meanings. You're the only one who's narrow-minded since you refuse to believe it has any other meaning than the one you wish to believe. Maybe you should look up what narrow-minded means before you start ironically spewing it out.


narrow-minded
  Example Sentences Origin

nar·row-mind·ed
   [nar-oh-mahyn-did] Show IPA
adjective
1.
having or showing a prejudiced mind, as persons or opinions; biased.
2.
not receptive to new ideas; having a closed mind.

Wing, on 18 August 2012 - 11:25 AM, said:

Nobody can see Allah, that is common knowledge...so the jews were talking in a figure of speech. Essentialy meaning: 'Allah is stingy' i.e What's a stingy man? Someone who's hand(singular, i'll get back on this) is "tied" up.

LOL It's not even refering to being stingy, it's refering to Allah's capacity.

Wing, on 18 August 2012 - 11:25 AM, said:

[Notice] The jews are refering to 1 single hand here, yet what shia refers with prayer concerns both.

Wing, on 18 August 2012 - 11:25 AM, said:

"The Jews say, ‘Allah’s hand is tied up.’ Tied up be their hands, and cursed be they for what they say!

Wing, on 18 August 2012 - 11:25 AM, said:

Tied up be their hands, and cursed be they for what they say!

Wing, on 18 August 2012 - 11:25 AM, said:

their hands

Wing, on 18 August 2012 - 11:25 AM, said:

hands

It's interesting how that's the only point you're trying to go on.

Wing, on 18 August 2012 - 11:25 AM, said:

Deaf, dumb and blind - so they will not return.

Yes, you are, and yes, you will.

Wing, on 16 August 2012 - 01:29 PM, said:

Quote

Surah Al-Ma'ida, Ayah 6:
"O you who have faith! When you stand up for prayer, wash your faces and your hands up to the elbows, and wipe a part of your heads and your feet, up to the ankles."

It specifically says to "wipe" part of your heads and feet, not 'wash'. This is further emphasized by the fact that it was not simply included into same part as 'washing' faces and hands up to the elbows, but rather is a separate articulation/elaboration. It also specifically says "a part" of your heads and feet, not your entire foot.

And such a small detail DOES NOT MATTER, look at it from a grown man's POV, don't you think it's ridiculous/hilarious?? How will this small detail change a nation lol...

Wing, on 18 August 2012 - 11:25 AM, said:

Despite the hadiths being labeled 100% correct, you can't take them 100%...

You're the biggest hypocrite I've ever seen. You make ironic accusations left and right that only you and your sect are guilty of. Call me when you stop being a munafiqun and become a Muslim.

Edited by Muhammad Ibrahim, 18 August 2012 - 12:21 PM.

[Muhammad Ibrahim]

AliHussainFaraji, on 18 August 2012 - 11:52 AM, said:

He's not worth your reply brother. I was all for humoring him until he started blatantly saying it's no big deal to not follow the Quran.

Surah Ya Sin:

{7} "The word has certainly become due against most of them, so they will not have faith."
{8} "Indeed We have put iron collars around their necks, which are up to the chins, so their heads are upturned."
{9} "And We have put a barrier before them and a barrier behind them, then We have blind-folded them, so they do not see."
{10} "It is the same to them whether you warn them or do not warn them, they will not have faith."
{11} "You can only warn someone who follows the Reminder(Quran) and fears the All-beneficent in secret; so give him the good news of forgiveness and a noble reward."

You're right, brother.

Wing, on 16 August 2012 - 01:29 PM, said:

Quote

Surah Al-Ma'ida, Ayah 6:
"O you who have faith! When you stand up for prayer, wash your faces and your hands up to the elbows, and wipe a part of your heads and your feet, up to the ankles."

It specifically says to "wipe" part of your heads and feet, not 'wash'. This is further emphasized by the fact that it was not simply included into same part as 'washing' faces and hands up to the elbows, but rather is a separate articulation/elaboration. It also specifically says "a part" of your heads and feet, not your entire foot.

And such a small detail DOES NOT MATTER, look at it from a grown man's POV, don't you think it's ridiculous/hilarious?? How will this small detail change a nation lol...

Wing, on 18 August 2012 - 11:25 AM, said:

Despite the hadiths being labeled 100% correct, you can't take them 100%...

Sura Qaf:

{6} We know what the earth diminishes from them, and with Us is a preserving Book.
{7} Rather they denied the truth when it came to them; so they are now in a perplexed state of affairs.


I don't know why he keeps posting random parts of the Quran that have no relevance to his argument as a rebuttal.

That's like me posting:

"He said, ‘My Lord! How shall I have a son, when my wife is barren, and I am already advanced in age?’"

See! I told you shia is wrong! Abu Bakr 4 lyfe!

Edited by Muhammad Ibrahim, 18 August 2012 - 12:32 PM.

[Wing]

AliHussainFaraji, on 18 August 2012 - 11:52 AM, said:

We're not segregating ourselves from anything. We don't say we are Shia rather than we are Muslim. The word 'Shia' means follower.

Actions speak louder than words. Notice, the word Islam is nowhere to be found.


I'm surprised you know the LITERAL meaning of the arabic word, Shia (follower). It just means follower...

AliHussainFaraji, on 18 August 2012 - 11:52 AM, said:

Surah Al-Qasas, Ayah 15:
"And he (Moses) went into the city at a time when people (of the city) were not watching, so he found therein two men fighting, one being of his Shia and the other being his enemy, and the one who was of his Shia cried out to him for help against the one who was of his enemy. So Moses hit him with his fist, whereupon he expired. He said, ‘This is of Satan’s doing. Indeed he is an enemy, manifestly misguiding.’"

litteraly translating this to english would be, being his follower(nothing more nothing less) What are you trying to prove? W8, you have extreme difficulty with comprehending that the verse you provided about prayer was completely wrong. I did you the pleasure to explain it(read above).

AliHussainFaraji, on 18 August 2012 - 11:52 AM, said:

Surah As-Saaffat, Ayah 83:
"And most surely Ibraham was among the Shia of him (i.e. Noah)".

A person can call himself a Muslim instead of a Sunni all he wants, that doesn't make it true. It's not what you call yourself, it's what you believe. If you believe that Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman were the successors of the Prophet , if you don't want believe the Ahlul Bayt are perfect, if you do Wudu contrary to the Quran, etc., then you're a Sunni.

Again, nothing to prove. That is an arabic word meaning nothing more than 'follower'. Now, if it was written "And most surely Ibrahim was a Shi'i" then you would have been correct. But ofc a deluded mind will never see through it.
Here you are saying, if you are not Shia you are kafir...speaking of narrow minds...
Buddy, EVEN THE PROPHETS(except muhammad) SINNED, now you're going to tell me Ahlul bayt was perfect(above those prophets)? Speaking of favoritism..? If any of them was even half as perfect as Maryam, i'm sure they would have been mentioned by name in the Quran.

AliHussainFaraji, on 18 August 2012 - 11:52 AM, said:

He's not worth your reply brother. I was all for humoring him until he started blatantly saying it's no big deal to not follow the Quran.

I mentioned somewhere "Repeat a lie and it will be believed" Again, who are you trying to convince, yourself? ALL I came to with WAS the QURAN.

So i'll tell you again, show verses from the Quran countering my proof(directly from the Quran) that Shia is right.

[AliHussainFaraji]

Muhammad Ibrahim, on 18 August 2012 - 12:32 PM, said:

You're right, brother.





Sura Qaf:

{6} We know what the earth diminishes from them, and with Us is a preserving Book.
{7} Rather they denied the truth when it came to them; so they are now in a perplexed state of affairs.


I don't know why he keeps posting random parts of the Quran that have no relevance to his argument as a rebuttal.

That's like me posting:

"He said, ‘My Lord! How shall I have a son, when my wife is barren, and I am already advanced in age?’"

See! I told you shia is wrong! Abu Bakr 4 lyfe!

Because he's desperate scrambling to find an excuse to continue being Sunni in contradiction to the Quran and Sunnah. The day he posted his first rebuttal I saw that it said he was viewing this page for like a half an hour (at the bottom of the page) but couldn't come up with a response. I also noticed he was online for a very long time on the 15th but couldn't put together a response until the next day.

Regardless though, don't give him any more attention.

"The man who contrives for his own people to be put to sword and invites death and destruction for them does deserve that the near ones should hate him and the remote ones should not trust him."
Nahj al-Balagha, Sermon 19

[AliHussainFaraji]

This will be my last response to you because you obviously would rather follow shaitan than Islam according to the Quran and Sunnah.

Wing, on 18 August 2012 - 12:40 PM, said:

Actions speak louder than words. Notice, the word Islam is nowhere to be found.

AliHussainFaraji, on 18 August 2012 - 11:52 AM, said:

the word Shia is used is to differentiate from the false beliefs of the created sects. We are the only ones who follow the Quran 100% and follow the authenticated Sunnah 100%. We practice the Islam the Prophet Muhammad practiced, before the deviations of others. The word 'Shia' means follower. Shia Muslim is just another way of saying real Muslim (i.e. follower of Islam).

Surah Al-Qasas, Ayah 15:
"And he (Moses) went into the city at a time when people (of the city) were not watching, so he found therein two men fighting, one being of his Shia and the other being his enemy, and the one who was of his Shia cried out to him for help against the one who was of his enemy. So Moses hit him with his fist, whereupon he expired. He said, ‘This is of Satan’s doing. Indeed he is an enemy, manifestly misguiding.’"

Surah As-Saaffat, Ayah 83:
"And most surely Ibraham was among the Shia of him (i.e. Noah)"

I guess the Prophet Ibrahim and Moses didn't practice Islam either.

Meanwhile you:

Wing

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- Does not believe in the Quran
- Does not believe in the authenticated Sunnah

AliHussainFaraji, on 18 August 2012 - 11:52 AM, said:

A person can call himself a Muslim instead of a Sunni all he wants, that doesn't make it true. It's not what you call yourself, it's what you believe. If you believe that Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman were the successors of the Prophet , if you don't want believe the Ahlul Bayt are perfect, if you do Wudu contrary to the Quran, etc., then you're a Sunni.  A Christian who believes in the Trinity, believes drinking alcohol is halal and does not believe in the Prophet Muhammad can also call himself a Muslim, that doesn't make it true.

Wing, on 18 August 2012 - 12:40 PM, said:

I'm surprised you know the LITERAL meaning of the arabic word

I'm surprised you know how to spell at all considering your inability to put a proper sentence together. This is especially funny considering you said the Sunnah is fabricated when it is an Islamic belief (both Sunni and Shia) that those parts of the Sunnah are authentic.

Wing, on 18 August 2012 - 12:40 PM, said:

Shia (follower). It just means follower...

Reading comprehension is not your strong suit, huh?

AliHussainFaraji, on 18 August 2012 - 11:52 AM, said:

The word 'Shia' means follower.

AliHussainFaraji, on 18 August 2012 - 11:52 AM, said:

Shia Muslim is just another way of saying real Muslim (i.e. follower of Islam).

Guess what Sunni means? Follower of the Sunnah (the one you said is fabricated). Guess who's a Sunni? Anyone who believes Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman are the successors to the Prophet Muhammad , which is contradicted by the Sunnah itself.

Wing, on 18 August 2012 - 12:40 PM, said:

litteraly translating this to english would be, being his follower(nothing more nothing less) What are you trying to prove? W8, you have extreme difficulty with comprehending that the verse you provided about prayer was completely wrong. I did you the pleasure to explain it(read above).

Exactly, followers of the Prophets of Allah, which is what Shia (Muslims) are. Can you comprehend that? Also Muhammad Ibrahim showed that YOU were wrong about the Ayah about the Jews.

Muhammad Ibrahim said:

Wing, on 18 August 2012 - 11:25 AM, said:

Nobody can see Allah, that is common knowledge...so the jews were talking in a figure of speech. Essentialy meaning: 'Allah is stingy' i.e What's a stingy man? Someone who's hand(singular, i'll get back on this) is "tied" up.

LOL It's not even refering to being stingy, it's refering to Allah's capacity.

Wing, on 18 August 2012 - 11:25 AM, said:

[Notice] The jews are refering to 1 single hand here, yet what shia refers with prayer concerns both.

Wing, on 18 August 2012 - 11:25 AM, said:

"The Jews say, ‘Allah’s hand is tied up.’ Tied up be their hands, and cursed be they for what they say!

Wing, on 18 August 2012 - 11:25 AM, said:

Tied up be their hands, and cursed be they for what they say!

Wing, on 18 August 2012 - 11:25 AM, said:

their hands

Wing, on 18 August 2012 - 11:25 AM, said:

hands

Wing, on 18 August 2012 - 12:40 PM, said:

Here you are saying, if you are not Shia you are kafir...speaking of narrow minds...
[/color]

That's not a narrow minded, that's Islam. The only narrow-minded person is you can't can't possibly accept for one second that anything other than Sunni'ism is correct. Learn what narrow-minded means. A person who does not practice Islam is not a Muslim. Following the Quran 100% and the Prophet 100% are requirments for being a Muslim, which you don't do.

Wing, on 18 August 2012 - 12:40 PM, said:

Buddy, EVEN THE PROPHETS(except muhammad) SINNED, now you're going to tell me Ahlul bayt was perfect(above those prophets)? Speaking of favoritism..?

What's your point? The Quran says Ahlul Bayt is perfect. If you don't want to believe the Quran that's your own problem.

As for favoritism:
Surah Al-An'am, Ayah 53-54:
{53} Thus do We test them by means of one another so that they should say, ‘Are these the ones whom Allah has favoured from among us?!’ Does not Allah know best the grateful?!
{54} When those who have faith in Our signs come to you, say, ‘Peace to you! Your Lord has made mercy incumbent upon Himself: whoever of you commits an evil [deed] out of ignorance and then repents after that and reforms, then He is indeed all-forgiving, all-merciful.’

Wing, on 18 August 2012 - 12:40 PM, said:

If any of them was even half as perfect as Maryam, i'm sure they would have been mentioned by name in the Quran.

So you know better than Allah? Maybe you should write your own Sunni holy book where you can write and believe whatever you want.

Wing, on 18 August 2012 - 12:40 PM, said:

I mentioned somewhere "Repeat a lie and it will be believed" Again, who are you trying to convince, yourself? ALL I came to with WAS the QURAN.

So i'll tell you again, show verses from the Quran countering my proof(directly from the Quran) that Shia is right.

Look in the freaking the mirror. The only one who is convincing himself anything is you. I simply follow the Quran and authenticated Sunnah.

- You don't believe the Quran when it says Ahlul Bayt is perfect
- You don't believe the Quran when it says how to perform Wudu
- You don't believe the Quran when it says that only Allah can appoint our leaders
- You don't believe the 100% authenticated parts of the Sunnah that says there will be 12 Muslim leaders
- You don't believe the 100% authenticated parts of the Sunnah that says Ali is the Prophet's successor
- You don't believe the 100% authenticated parts of the Sunnah that says the Prophet said he leaves us with the Quran and his Ahlul Bayt

But keep lying about being a Muslim and continue following Abu Bakr instead of Islam and projecting yourself onto others, you hypocrite.

Surah Al-Hajj:
{55} "Those who are faithless persist in their doubt about it, until the Hour overtakes them suddenly, or they are overtaken by the punishment of an inauspicious day."
{56} "On that day all sovereignty will belong to Allah: He will judge between them. Then those who have faith and do righteous deeds will be in gardens of bliss,"
{57} "and those who are faithless and who deny Our signs —for such there will be a humiliating punishment."

But you don't believe in the Quran so there's no hope for you. I want to thank you though for proving my point that Sunnis do, in fact, prefer ignorance over Islam.

Edited by AliHussainFaraji, 18 August 2012 - 01:37 PM.

[Muhammad Ibrahim]

Wing takes his opinions as his religion and calls it Islam in contradiction to the Quran and Sunnah. He makes ironic statements left and right.

This is pathetic to watch.

Edited by Muhammad Ibrahim, 18 August 2012 - 01:47 PM.

[Muhammad Ibrahim]

Just thought I'd mentioned that wing has been viewing this thread non-stop since the last post and still hasn't replied.

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Muhammad Ibrahim*, Wing

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Wing
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[Wing]

lol idiots talking in circles. Instead of throwing personal insults and claims, reply to the most important questions I asked(they are huge in letters) about your "religion" since that's how you like to call it. These are verses of the Quran, pretty much destroying what you call "12 imams". So tell me, where was your imam when the Mongols invaded? On a vacation, being enlightened by God? or is Sultan Qutuz the missing Imam who saved the ummah? Dumbasses, even history(based on actual facts) proves you wrong, continue living in a fairy tale.


Only accepting verses from the Quran, keep your crooked hadiths with the sheep(which you are part of). If you can't, I have no need to answer the above - although I easily can.

I'm making exception for 1. The funny reply you gave me about my explanation on Sura Al-Ma'ida:

Yes, it involves 'Allah's capacity' tho, you forgot...concerning 'stingy'. But only comes to play when this line is mentioned "and he bestows as he wishes". We are mainly concentrated on the 'hands' part(which has my legit explanation), since you claim something funny out of it. Allah replied with "their(bunch of ppl) handS" because he was talking in plural, now how hard is that....

[Sonador]

Things are easy said than done.

[Rasul]

Wing, on 18 August 2012 - 03:27 PM, said:

So tell me, where was your imam when the Mongols invaded? On a vacation, being enlightened by God?

Where was your Mahdi then dumbass? Why don't you ask your self such silly questions?

[Sonador]

Rasul, on 18 August 2012 - 04:58 PM, said:

Where was your Mahdi then dumbass? Why don't you ask your self such silly questions?

Sunnis don't have an infallible Mahdi who has to be alive at all times. He's said to be one of the signs of the end times and according to reports he will fight the dajjal. He's not to help Muslims every time they are in trouble. Muslims are supposed to help themselves with the aid of Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì.

[Rasul]

Sonador, on 18 August 2012 - 05:01 PM, said:

Sunnis don't have an infallible Mahdi who has to be alive at all times. He's said to be one of the signs of the end times and according to reports he will fight the dajjal. He's not to help Muslims every time they are in trouble. Muslims are supposed to help themselves with the aid of Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì.

So? ... in reality your Mahdi does not exist and will not exist -  it is an real 'myth' and some of your Scholars claimed that 'Mahdi is Jesus' but birth of Shia Mahdi (a.j.f.s) is recorded in Sunni Books also

[Sonador]

Rasul, on 18 August 2012 - 05:29 PM, said:

So? ... in reality your Mahdi does not exist and will not exist -  it is an real 'myth' and some of your Scholars claimed that 'Mahdi is Jesus' but birth of Shia Mahdi (a.j.f.s) is recorded in Sunni Books also

We are not waiting for any Mahdi, he's not our infallible imam. We are not depending on him. Our deen is perfect without him. He's just a pious khalifah of the end times. And no scholars of Ahl-as-Sunnah claim that Mahdi is Jesus. Maybe some people have difference of opinions and it's an evidence that Mahdi is not a matter of life and death for us.

If some shia belief is recorded in a so called sunni book that's from a shia reporter in the guise of taqiyyah.

[Rasul]

Sonador, on 18 August 2012 - 05:33 PM, said:

We are not waiting for any Mahdi, he's not our infallible imam. We are not depending on him. Our deen is perfect without him. He's just a pious khalifah of the end times. And no scholars of Ahl-as-Sunnah claim that Mahdi is Jesus. Maybe some people have difference of opinions and it's an evidence that Mahdi is not a matter of life and death for us.

So why you cannot create the Khilafat?

+ Yes some of your Scholars have claimed that 'Mahdi is Jesus' and it is recorded in your books.

Quote

If some shia belief is recorded in a so called sunni book that's from a shia reporter in the guise of taqiyyah.

So Sahaba used Taqiyya?

+ What is reported about birth of Shia Mahdi (a.j.f.s.) in Sunni Books is an 'historical fact' and not an 'narration'

Edited by Rasul, 18 August 2012 - 05:51 PM.

[Muhammad Ibrahim]

Sonador, on 18 August 2012 - 03:36 PM, said:

Things are easy said than done.

Yes, it is easier to say you are a Muslim than actually be a Muslim. As has been proven in this thread, Shiasm is Islam and Sunnism are deviations. So are you going to convert to Islam or do you prefer being a Sunni munafiqun?

Sonador, on 18 August 2012 - 05:33 PM, said:

We are not waiting for any Mahdi, he's not our infallible imam. We are not depending on him. Our deen is perfect without him.

Your religion which contradicts the Quran and Sunnah is perfect?

Sonador, on 18 August 2012 - 05:33 PM, said:

If some shia belief is recorded in a so called sunni book that's from a shia reporter in the guise of taqiyyah.

So Sahih Bukhari, Sahih Muslims and all other books deemed to be authnetic by Sunnis are really written by Shias in disguise? Add this to the list of pathetic Sunni arguments.

I guess the Quran was written by Shia in the guise of taqiyyah too.

Rasul, on 18 August 2012 - 05:50 PM, said:

So Sahaba used Taqiyya?

+ What is reported about birth of Shia Mahdi (a.j.f.s.) in Sunni Books is an 'historical fact' and not an 'narration'

Don't bother, brother. He tried to argue the hadith was about Banu Umaiyah and Banu Abbas in the other thread then failed. Now he has to resort to delusions. They love Abu Bakr more than they love Allah and the Prophet Muhammad .

Edited by Muhammad Ibrahim, 18 August 2012 - 06:20 PM.