99 replies to this topic

[Righteous]

Sonador, on 14 August 2012 - 03:35 PM, said:

It seems you have limited knowledge of the life of Prophet s.a.w in Makkah otherwise you wouldn't ask a question like the above.

Saiyidina Umar Farooq radiyallahu anhu embraced Islam in the early period of Makkan life. Prophet Muhammad s.a.w and his followers were already leading a miserable life there, how would they provide security to the reverts against the pagans of Makkah. Don't forget that was the time when Quraysh boycotted them and they had to live in the Sheb of Abi Talib. According to us, even Hadrat Abi Talib died at kufr, he was not a believer, so in this case the Prophet of Islam took shelter in the house of a disbeliever??
Hadrat Musa alayhis salam was raised in the house of a cursed kafir called Pharaoh of Egypt, so?

I have a quota of only two posts today, so I will have just one more reply after this.

Secondly, you should find the meaning of the word 'LOGIC' in the dictionary, it doesn't mean 'APPLE or BANANA'.

And lastly, it's really ridiculous how you guys question the bravery and courage of Saiyidina Umar r.a.

blah blah blah......i can answer all your ridiculous assertions but lets stick to the topic.....i have proven from your references the cowardice of Umar, how he ran away from battles, now instead of sounding all high and mighty just disprove me WITH REFERENCES.

P.S. Abu Talib is a muslim in our belief and only ignorant sunnis and maloon nasibis call him Kaafir...but that is a debate for a different time.

and yeah since you mentioned sheb Abi Talib, please do mention how your 1-2-3 helped the besieged family during the seige or do discover how they abandoned the family during that period.

Enjoy using your LOGIC of APPLE or BANANA ...but i will prefer solid references.

[wayfarer.]

Sonador, on 13 August 2012 - 04:54 PM, said:

Think, if a man himself is running away, will he say 'What's wrong with people who are running away?'. He himself is running away, does he have the right to ask such a question?

The hadith itself doesn't use a single word that Umar r.a was running away, the hadith doesn't even say that the man himself was also running. It only says that he followed Umar r.a wherever he was. And Umar r.a said it was the will of Allah. Everything is the will of Allah. Victory and defeat is from Allah.

If shia 'scholars' have used this 'clear' hadith for ages to look down upon Umar r.a, it doesn't mean they have done an excellent job, because this 'clear hadith' is not clear about who and who was running away.

Here is a simple question for you :

According to this Sahi Bukhari hadith -

The Muslims (excepting the Prophet and some of his companions) started fleeing and I too, fled with them. Suddenly I met 'Umar bin Al-Khattab amongst the people and I asked him, "What is wrong with the people?" He said, "It is the order of Allah"

Sahi Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 59, Number 611:

If the order of Allah, according to Umar, was to flee and you claim that he did not flee, is Umar not a Kafir in not following the order of Allah according to the hadith?

[awaiting_for_the.12th]

^Adding on to that, how did Umar know it is the order of Allah (swt) when the Prophet is still fighting. Sunnis don't believe in ilm gayb, so how exactly did Umar reached that decision?

[Wing]

2 words: OP = dumb.

How do you like that? I just tried it in google and nothing comes up, back your BS with proof or stfu, ty.

Omar is known for alot of improvements and order to the islamic world, his most impressive is justice. Are you picking on him because he was chosen before Ali to be Caliph?
I'll say this once so pay attention: THE ONLY HUMANS YOU NEED TO ANKNOWLEDGE APART FROM GOD/ANGELS ARE THE PROPHETS, ALI IS NOT ONE OF THEM! Forget about "Ahlul bayt" Not written in Quran = utter BS.

[Haydar Husayn]

Wasn't this thread supposed to be about Umar and Aflah? I take it there is actually no evidence for this supposed relationship, and that's why the discussion has moved on to Umar fleeing the battlefield?

[Darth Vader]

Haydar Husayn, on 14 August 2012 - 05:51 AM, said:

Have any narrations on Aflah been posted yet?

Not on Aflah, not so far brother. So I guess you've managed to salvage Aflah's reputation. For now.

[Haydar Husayn]

Darth Vader, on 15 August 2012 - 07:04 AM, said:

Not on Aflah, not so far brother. So I guess you've managed to salvage Aflah's reputation. For now.

If this stuff could be proven through reliable narrations, then I'd probably bring it up more than most, but sadly I doubt it can, and therefore anyone who mentions this to a Sunni is just making a fool of himself. When you are going to stick your neck out and make extraordinary claims of this nature, you really have to make sure that your case is air tight. Otherwise you only end up doing more harm than good.

[Queen Yoda]

This is what I have got so far

The medicine that is needed to treat anal diseases was used extensively by the second khalifa, this medicine is prepared by grinding certain chemicals and then preparing a solution in either vinegar or wine and is then inserted into the anus of the patient

Ahlajj ul Amraas, page 309 by Hakeem Ajmul Khan Dehlavi Part 8, Dialogue 14

Sahi Bukhari
Volume 8, Book 82, Number 820:
Narrated Ibn 'Abbas:

The Prophet cursed the effeminate men and those women who assume the similitude (manners) of men. He also said, "Turn them out of your houses." He turned such-and-such person out, and 'Umar also turned out such-and-such person.

[gajarkahalva]

Unbelievable! that hadith really does exist in sahih bukhari (just checked it online). What explanation do the sunnis give for it?

The Prophet cursed the effeminate men and those women who assume the similitude (manners) of men. He also said, "Turn them out of your houses." He turned such-and-such person out, and 'umar also turned out such-and-such person.

and what would you say about the part underlined? Not sure what to make of it but maybe it is not to be taken in the sense that it is.

Anyway, there is a separate thread about umar running away from battles so its better to use that one to discuss his heroism.

Edited by gajarkahalva, 15 August 2012 - 10:29 AM.

[Sonador]

wayfarer., on 15 August 2012 - 12:18 AM, said:

Here is a simple question for you :

According to this Sahi Bukhari hadith -

The Muslims (excepting the Prophet and some of his companions) started fleeing and I too, fled with them. Suddenly I met 'Umar bin Al-Khattab amongst the people and I asked him, "What is wrong with the people?" He said, "It is the order of Allah"

Sahi Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 59, Number 611:

If the order of Allah, according to Umar, was to flee and you claim that he did not flee, is Umar not a Kafir in not following the order of Allah according to the hadith?

WAllahi, I'm sick of the mental level of you guys, seriously, this is too annoying! Why don't you guys use some aql??

Or the enmity of the companions of Muhammad s.a.w has made you lose your minds?

Read the same hadith (Sahih Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 59, Number 611) completely:


Volume 5, Book 59, Number 611:

Narrated Abu Qatada:

When it was the day of (the battle of) Hunain, I saw a Muslim man fighting with one of the pagans and another pagan was hiding himself behind the Muslim in order to kill him. So I hurried towards the pagan who was hiding behind the Muslim to kill him, and he raised his hand to hit me but I hit his hand and cut it off. That man got hold of me and pressed me so hard that I was afraid (that I would die), then he knelt down and his grip became loose and I pushed him and killed him. The Muslims (excepting the Prophet and some of his companions) started fleeing and I too, fled with them. Suddenly I met 'Umar bin Al-Khattab amongst the people and I asked him, "What is wrong with the people?" He said, "It is the order of Allah" Then the people returned to Allah's Apostle (after defeating the enemy). Allah's Apostle said, "Whoever produces a proof that he has killed an infidel, will have the spoils of the killed man." So I got up to look for an evidence to prove that I had killed an infidel, but I could not find anyone to bear witness for me, so I sat down. Then it came to my mind (that I should speak of it) and I mentioned the case to Allah's Apostle. A man from the persons who were sitting with him (i.e. the Prophet), said, "The arms of the deceased one whom he ( i.e. Abu Qatada) has mentioned, are with me, so please compensate him for it (i.e. the spoils)," Abu Bakr said, "No, Allah's Apostle will not give it (i.e. the spoils) to a weak humble person from Quraish and leave one of Allah's Lions who fights on behalf of Allah and His Apostle." Allah's Apostle then got up and gave that (spoils) to me, and I bought with it, a garden which was the first property I got after embracing Islam.

Comments: Read the bold line above in blue. It says they returned after defeating the enemy. In short no one ran away, and perhaps it was some battlefield strategy.

Edited by Sonador, 15 August 2012 - 12:52 PM.

[Sonador]

Yoda1, on 15 August 2012 - 09:18 AM, said:

This is what I have got so far

The medicine that is needed to treat anal diseases was used extensively by the second khalifa, this medicine is prepared by grinding certain chemicals and then preparing a solution in either vinegar or wine and is then inserted into the anus of the patient

Ahlajj ul Amraas, page 309 by Hakeem Ajmul Khan Dehlavi Part 8, Dialogue 14

SubhaanAllah! This is your source??

Quote

Sahi Bukhari
Volume 8, Book 82, Number 820:
Narrated Ibn 'Abbas:

The Prophet cursed the effeminate men and those women who assume the similitude (manners) of men. He also said, "Turn them out of your houses." He turned such-and-such person out, and 'Umar also turned out such-and-such person.

SubhaanAllah!

Read what Quran says:

Disbelievers will be deaf, dumb, and blind. 2:171

Allah has blessed you with Islam, Yoda. Do not let hatred of believers find place in your heart. As I see you guys can't see or read the very clear and well versed texts. Perhaps your emotions have blinded you.

The above hadith CLEARLY says:

He (Prophet Muhammad s.a.w) turned such-and-such person out, and 'Umar also turned out such-and-such person.

Now what you blaming Umar r.a for when Rasoolullah s.a.w did the same thing???

[Wing]

Yoda1, on 15 August 2012 - 09:18 AM, said:

This is what I have got so far

The medicine that is needed to treat anal diseases was used extensively by the second khalifa, this medicine is prepared by grinding certain chemicals and then preparing a solution in either vinegar or wine and is then inserted into the anus of the patient

Did you read that? if everyone had a mentality like you, we'd still be dying of cholera.....ffs

Sonador, on 15 August 2012 - 12:52 PM, said:

WAllahi, I'm sick of the mental level of you guys, seriously, this is too annoying! Why don't you guys use some aql?

Yup, i'm reading this site for less than a week and i'm already sick of most comments. Surprising, their reasoning is SO similar to the ppl of old quraish and the jews.

[Rasul]

Sunnis belief that 'feminine men' used to be in Prophet's wifes house...

ÍÏËäÇ ÚËãÇä Èä ÃÈí ÔíÈÉ ÍÏËäÇ ÚÈÏÉ Úä åÔÇã Èä ÚÑæÉ Úä ÃÈíå Úä ÒíäÈ ÈäÊ Ãã ÓáãÉ Úä Ãã ÓáãÉ  Ãä ÇáäÈí Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÓáã ßÇä ÚäÏåÇ æÝí ÇáÈíÊ ãÎäË ÝÞÇá ÇáãÎäË áÃÎí Ãã ÓáãÉ ÚÈÏ Çááå Èä ÃÈí ÃãíÉ Åä ÝÊÍ Çááå áßã ÇáØÇÆÝ ÛÏÇ ÃÏáß Úáì ÈäÊ ÛíáÇä ÝÅäåÇ ÊÞÈá ÈÃÑÈÚ æÊÏÈÑ ÈËãÇä ÝÞÇá ÇáäÈí Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÓáã áÇ íÏÎáä åÐÇ Úáíßä

Sahih Bukhari, Hadith Number # 4937

Edited by Rasul, 15 August 2012 - 03:15 PM.

[Queen Yoda]

gajarkahalva, on 15 August 2012 - 10:22 AM, said:

Unbelievable! that hadith really does exist in sahih bukhari (just checked it online). What explanation do the sunnis give for it?

The Prophet cursed the effeminate men and those women who assume the similitude (manners) of men. He also said, "Turn them out of your houses." He turned such-and-such person out, and 'umar also turned out such-and-such person.

and what would you say about the part underlined? Not sure what to make of it but maybe it is not to be taken in the sense that it is.

Anyway, there is a separate thread about umar running away from battles so its better to use that one to discuss his heroism.

The usual denial, as demonstrated by sonador. Although he sounds more like a wahabi than a sunni

[Ali_Hussain]

WARNING - GRAPHIC CONTENT


I'm not claiming this is umer's fault, but are these kind of stories really found in sunni books?

Quote

A Salaf's vow to avenge Uthman's murder through sodomy

We read in al-Muhadharat, Volume 3 page 253 Chapter 15:

ßÇä ÓßÑÇä íÈßí æíÞæá: áæ ÚÑÝÊ ÞÊáÉ ÚËãÇä!ÝÞÇá áå ãÎäË: ãÇ ßäÊ ÊÝÚá Èåã¿ßäÊ Ãäíßåã!ÝÞÇá ÇáãÎäË: ÃäÇ ÞÊáÊå ÝÇãÊØÇå æÌÚá íÞæá: íÇ äÇÑÇÊ ÚËãÇä!æÇáãÎäË íÞæá ãä ÊÍÊå: Åä ßäÊ æáí ÇáÏã æåÐå ÚÞæÈÊß ÝÅäí ÃÞÊá ßá íæã ÚËãÇäÇ!

"A drunk man was crying and said: 'If only I were to apprehend a killer of Uthman'. A homosexual asked: 'What would you do?' He replied: 'I would sodomise him'. The homosexual then said: 'I killed Uthman'. Thus he turned the homosexual on his back and said: 'This is vengeance for Uthman'. The homosexual said from underneath: 'If the executors of Uthman are going to avenge the killing of Uthman in such a manner then I have killed Uthman every day'"


A Salaf's painful sacrifice for the love of Mu'awiya

We also read in al-Muhadharat, Volume 3 page 237:

æÏÝÚ ÑÌá Åáì ÃãÑÏ ÏÑÇåã ÝáãÇ ßÔÝ ÇíÑå ÇÓÊÚÙãå ÝÇãÊäÚ¡ ÝÞÇá áå ÇáÑÌá: ÃãÇ Ãä ÊÓÊÏÎáå æÃãÇ Ãä ÊÔÊã ãÚÇæíÉ ÝÞÇá: ÇáÕÈÑ Úáì ÇáÇÓÊÏÎÇá Ãåæä ãä ÔÊã ÎÇáí æÎÇá ÃãíÑ ÇáãÄãäíä. ÝáãÇ ÃÏÎáå Ýíå ÞÇá: ÃÎ íÇ ÑÈ åÐÇ Ýí åæì æáíß Þáíá¡ Çááåã Åäí ÞÏ ÈÐáÊ äÝÓí Ïæä ÔÊã ãÚÇæíÉ ÝÕÈÑäí!

"A man paid a boy some money to secure his consent to sodomise him. When he exposed his penis the boy noticed that his penis was very large thus he refused to allow him to enter. The man replied: 'You will have to do one of two things, either you allow me to sodomise you or you curse Mu'awiya'. The boy replied: 'I shall be patient and allow myself to be sodomised rather than curse the uncle of the faithful, Mu'awiya'. When the man started to sodomise him, the boy said: 'O God, I am suffering this affliction on account of love for your Guardian. O Allah, grant me solace for having refused to curse Mu'awiya'".

Subhanallah! What a sacrifice! Alhamdolillah we, the Shi'a of Maula Ali have the example of Hujr bin Adi who sacrificed his head rather than curse Maula Ali, and the Nasibi have this young Salaf rent boy as an example who sacrificed his anus for the love of Mu'awiya!

http://www.answering...h/en/chap13.php

Is this a joke?

Edited by Ali_Hussain, 15 August 2012 - 03:51 PM.

[Queen Yoda]

That is disgusting

I thank Allah (swt) for being born into a Shia family.

[Sonador]

Well, you guys tried your best to prove that Saiyidina Umar radiyallahu anhu ran away from Hunain, I proved above he didn't. After this failure you are now posting your favourite 'dirty stories' from some taqiyyah websites calling them salafi ones?

Anyway, do what pleases you. But the fact is your whole sect and your all imams couldn't defeat Saiyidina Umar Farooq-e-Azam radiyallahu anhu. He remained khalifah of Muslims for ten years and ruled the Muslim empire, while you guys couldn't get anything in this world except the qualification to curse and slander.

[Queen Yoda]

Lol sonador going back to his mates on  www.wahabisareugly.com saying he stopped Shia's from telling the truth about umar being a coward and a homo lol.

Now he is slandering our Imams because he cant bear the truth about umar and his disgusting ways.

Oh dear...

[Sonador]

Yoda1, on 15 August 2012 - 06:06 PM, said:

Now he is slandering our Imams because he cant bear the truth about umar and his disgusting ways.

Oh dear...

I'm stating a terrible fact, Yoda.

Allah gave Umar r.a respect and honour in this world. No one beat his wife in front of him. No one killed his baby in the womb. No one dragged him in the streets of Madinah with a rope around his neck. He remained an unchallenged ruler of the Muslim world for ten years. No one dared disobey or rebel against him.

[Queen Yoda]

Sonador, on 15 August 2012 - 06:10 PM, said:

I'm stating a terrible fact, Yoda.

Allah gave Umar r.a respect and honour in this world. No one beat his wife in front of him. No one killed his baby in the womb. No one dragged him in the streets of Madinah with a rope around his neck. He remained an unchallenged ruler of the Muslim world for ten years. No one dared disobey or rebel against him.

So you think its okay for him to have murdered Bibi Fatima and her unborn son ??

Umar is going to fry in Hell. With all the enemies of Ahlulbayt

Edited by Yoda1, 15 August 2012 - 06:16 PM.

[Haydar Husayn]

Sonador, on 15 August 2012 - 06:10 PM, said:

I'm stating a terrible fact, Yoda.

Allah gave Umar r.a respect and honour in this world. No one beat his wife in front of him. No one killed his baby in the womb. No one dragged him in the streets of Madinah with a rope around his neck. He remained an unchallenged ruler of the Muslim world for ten years. No one dared disobey or rebel against him.

And then he was gutted by a Persian slave...

Edited by Haydar Husayn, 15 August 2012 - 06:17 PM.

[Sonador]

Haydar Husayn, on 15 August 2012 - 06:17 PM, said:

And then he was gutted by a Persian slave...

Like Ali r.a was by Ibn Maljam. Not a big deal. Everyone has to taste death. Abu Lu Lu attacked him from behind, while Umar r.a was praying. Heroes are killed that way. Cowards have no courage to attack them from in front.

[Queen Yoda]

You have not answered my question sonador - how do you feel about umar murdering Bibi Fatima and her unborn son?

[Ali_Hussain]

Sonador, on 15 August 2012 - 06:10 PM, said:

I'm stating a terrible fact, Yoda.

Allah gave Umar r.a respect and honour in this world. No one beat his wife in front of him. No one killed his baby in the womb. No one dragged him in the streets of Madinah with a rope around his neck. He remained an unchallenged ruler of the Muslim world for ten years. No one dared disobey or rebel against him.

No, he just waited until they were born, then buried them, much better

[inshaAllah]

Personal attacks, offtopics, no mutual respect....
No point in allowing this discussion to continue.....