27 replies to this topic

[AliHussainFaraji]

You can skip to 4:55 if you don't want to sit through the intro.

Edited by AliHussainFaraji, 08 August 2012 - 07:24 PM.

[Ali_Ibn_Hussein]

An article on the same issue: http://www.scribd.co...rat-Ayeshas-Age

[Nader Zaveri]

 AliHussainFaraji, on 08 August 2012 - 06:50 PM, said:

You can skip to 4:55 if you don't want to sit through the intro.

Hishaam was the only one to narrate the age of `Aa'ishah? It is sad to see scholars even use the same recycled arguments that are all over the Internet without individually analyzing the narrations himself. The Sunnis (both Sufis and Salafis) have responded to this age situation about `Aa'ishah thoroughly.

Response from Gibril Haddad: http://qa.sunnipath....&ID=4604&CATE=1

Response on Wiki Islam (uses Gibril Haddad's arguments): http://wikiislam.net...of_Consummation

Response from Ayman b. Khaalid (the best article): click here

Even our SaHeeH Mawquf (Authentic Halted) athar from Isma`eel b. Ja`far al-Saadiq  say that `Aa'ishah was 10 years old when her marriage was consummated. Click here: http://www.revivinga...phet-at-10.html

Not to mention the numerous amount of hadith that talk about marrying your daughter she she is young.

Edited by Nader Zaveri, 08 August 2012 - 07:51 PM.

[John Al-Ameli]

No Aisha wasnt 9 years old...

Butnyesterday i heard people saying imam ali got married to sayida zahraa when she was 9... Is that true?

[Fuan]

 RoAcHy, on 08 August 2012 - 09:19 PM, said:

No Aisha wasnt 9 years old...

Butnyesterday i heard people saying imam ali got married to sayida zahraa when she was 9... Is that true?

No - there's a 10 year discrepancy in her real age .

Edited by Fuan, 08 August 2012 - 10:04 PM.

[Tima]

I hope not

[SoRoUsH]

Brother Alihussain...
Read the following thread carefully:
http://www.shiachat....t-consummation/

In my opinion, many people, who are eager to be defiant against each and every "secular" concern, do not take the time to properly understand the implications and the consequences of this issue.
It is very important to be certain about this topic before accepting it.
In my opinion, and I am sure many brothers will disagree, we do not have sufficient reasons to be certain or even almost certain about the final verdict regarding this issue.

In short, research this issue carefully.
Its consequences and implications are significant.

Keep the following in mind:
1) Authority comes only from the ahlul bayt . Not any of their siblings. There is a reason that God and our religion is very clear about who the twelve infallible imams are. Their brothers and other siblings do not have the same authority as them.

2) The sunna of The Prophet is eternal. This means whatever he did, as his sunna, is mustahab to do until the day of resurrection.
This implies that today it is mustahab to give 9-10 years old daughters away in marriage, even if the suitor is a 50+ years old man.

I may be taking a leap here but I am going to say that I believe even the defiant "conservatives," who do not budge to the pressure, would at least think twice about giving their own 9-10 years old daughters away in marriage to a much older man, regardless of how pious this much older man may be.
But if it is true that the prophet did "enter" Ayesha, when she was 10, then these defiant conservatives should be eager to commit a mustahab/recommended action and give their 9-10 years old daughters away in marriage, to be "entered" by a much older man. After all, they would be following prophet's sunna.


So, at the end, examine this issue carefully, and do not let the pressures of either side persuade you to either direction.
Make sure you do read the thread that I posted here as I believe many good points are already mentioned in there.

[Hot hot]

Zehra s.a was 9 years old when she married maula ali a.s

[mo7arbelmahdi]

No offense but what difference does it make? In the end the prophet pbuh did marry aisha and like it or not she is one of his blessed wives even if she did make some mistakes.

[titumir]

"Blessed" wife? Were the wives of Nuh and Lut also "blessed"?

[Nad_M]

 Nader Zaveri, on 08 August 2012 - 07:47 PM, said:

Hishaam was the only one to narrate the age of `Aa'ishah? It is sad to see scholars even use the same recycled arguments that are all over the Internet without individually analyzing the narrations himself. The Sunnis (both Sufis and Salafis) have responded to this age situation about `Aa'ishah thoroughly.

Response from Gibril Haddad: http://qa.sunnipath....&ID=4604&CATE=1

Response on Wiki Islam (uses Gibril Haddad's arguments): http://wikiislam.net...of_Consummation

Response from Ayman b. Khaalid (the best article): click here

Even our SaHeeH Mawquf (Authentic Halted) athar from Isma`eel b. Ja`far al-Saadiq  say that `Aa'ishah was 10 years old when her marriage was consummated. Click here: http://www.revivinga...phet-at-10.html

Not to mention the numerous amount of hadith that talk about marrying your daughter she she is young.

It is well documented in the works of historians (Tabari) that Aisha, along with all of Abu Bakr's children were born in Jahilliya, meaning there is no way possible she could have been less than 13 years old at the time of Hijra as some ahadith suggest. In his paper that is essentially nothing but a re-hash of GFHaddad's arguments, Ayman b. Khalid, adds a sentence that is inexistant in Tabari's report: "So all four children were begotten by those two wives whom we mentioned that he married during the pre-Islamic period". The phrase "that he married" doesnt exist in the Arabic. Ayman b. Khaalid added it, on purpose to try and connect the timing (jaahiliya) to the marriages while it clearly is defining the time when "all four children were begotten".

But let us consider the source for Aisha's alleged age of 9 when married, the book of "sahih" Bukhari.

According to a narrative in sahih Bukhari the revelation of al qamar:46 occured when Aisha was a young girl/jariya. The chapter ends a mere 9 verses later at v55 and it is obvious from the topic that v46 to v55 were revealed together and could not have been cut off. So the argument that some suras were revealed in portions with long intervals of time in between verses is mute. Besides all scholars agree this is a Meccan sura, whose finalization the opinion varies between the 4th and 8th year of the call. Ayman b. Khalid tries presenting a single view from an exegete (without quoting him) arguing that all of suratul qamar was revealed in Mecca except for 3 verses (which Ayman b. Khalid fails to mention obviously due to the fact that even this exceptional view doesnt support his attempt at insinuating that v46 was among those "late" verses). But even if we consider Aisha's traditionaly accepted date of birth in the 5th year of revelation as true, and in addition accept the latest estimation for the date when sura al-qamar was finalized on the 8th year of revelation as true, then this would mean Aisha was able to memorize with precision a verse and its reference when she was mearly 3, which is highly unlikely. Even if one were to accept Ayman b. Khalid's argument that the sura was revealed in stages (keeping in mind he offers no support for this view other than that of an exegete whom he fails to quote), thereby pushing further a year at most for the finalization of that short sura, it would imply that Aisha at most was 4 when she memorized a precise verse and its reference which is equally unlikely.  

Other historians such as Ibn Ishaq and Ibn Hisham say she accepted Islam before Umar, who himself converted in the 9th year of revelation according to the evidence brought by Ayman b. Khalid. These historians both say she was among the earliest converts. Ibn Ishaq places her at the 18th and ibn Hisham places her approximately at the 20th place chronologicaly. This takes us back during the 1st or at most the 2nd year of revelation. Aisha isnt supposed to have even been breathing at the time if she was truly born in the 5th year of revelation. Even if we assume that this date of birth is true, how can anybody reasonably argue that someone willingly accepts a religion 3 years later at 3 years old (ie before Umar's conversion in the 9th year)?  

In Bukhari's Kitab-ul-Kafalat, Aisha describes her vivid memory of events that supposedly happenned when she was but an infant, such as Abu bakr's migration to Ethiopia in the 5th year of revelation meaning her birth could not have been later than the pre-islamic era, as confirmed in Tabari's reports.

Before her union with the prophet she was engaged to Jubayr ibn Mut'im ibn Adi whose father was a vehement enemy of the prophet, before Abu Bakr accepted Islam. The engagement was broken off by Jubayr's father when Abu Bakr converted and planned to go to Abyssinia in the 5th year of revelation, the year of Aisha's alleged birth.

She clearly relates herself as having played an active role during the migration, such as in getting the travelling goods together in such a highly tense situation per the narrations, making it highly unlikely for an 8 year old to have been acting in such a way. Again she describes herself how she reached Shajra along with the soldiers in the battle of Badr that took place in 2H and nobody under 15 years old was allowed to join the soldiers in the battlefield obviously to avoid being captured and raised as idol-worshippers or killed and become a problem for the army yet she is alleged to have been 9 or 10 at the time and in addition was so immature she was still playing with dolls according to Hisham ibn Urwa, meaning she had no business whatsoever in being at the battlefield. In facts there are reports of the prophet sending back some Muslim youths who tried, out of eagerness, to go along with the Muslim army.

Ayman b. Khalid brings a few reports in an attempt to refute the notion that young, immature and pre-pubescent children were not allowed to be present in battles. He brings 2 reports none of which showing immature and prepubescent boys asking to participate in battles and their request being granted. His 1st report only shows that a ghulam (commonly used for a prepubescent child but can also be used idiomaticaly) had died during the battle of Badr. The young boy could have chosen to go by himself and in fact Ayman b. Khalid's 2nd report shows how 2 young boys (there is no indication about their age nor their sexual maturity in the Arabic) suddenly showed up alongside a Muslim soldier at the battle of Badr and how their presence made him feel uneasy. In the same report, this soldier later refers to them as "rajul" which actually refutes Ayman b. Khalid's position that this 2nd report refers to prepubescent boys. One cannot but logically assume that none had given them the authorization to participate at the battle due to them adding more difficulties to the Muslim fighters, but that they, like the boy spoken of in the 1st report, went forth by themselves.  

Anas further describes Aisha along with Umm Sulaim lifting their dresses up to avoid any hindrance in their movement, at the batttle of Uhud. The idea of lifting the dress in Arab tradition, as is evident in abundant pre-Islamic poetry is a reference to women fleeing the battlefield, having to raise their skirts exposing their shins. This is what happened in Uhud and is why the running of the wives of the Prophet is tied into the mass confusion and the lack of defense around the Prophet, when the defenses broke. The fact is Aisha actively participated in battles during the prophet's life, assissting the men at the battlefield along with other women, which is why by the time of Ali's reign as Caliph, she gathered enough experience and credibility that she could rally a huge fighting force.

None of the narrations saying she was 6 when engaged and 9 when moved with the prophet come from Mecca or Medina and whether from Muslim or Bukhari's sahih books combined, it is the same hadith narrated in multiple ways, which refutes the position that Aisha's age is established by multiple reliable sources. Even the two hadith in Bukhari claiming that Aisha says her age are attributed to Hisham bin Urwah, so they arent even her own words. It is only in Muslim, in which the author tries to place the permissabilitiy of marrying young women are two hadith quoted which claim the words from Aisha, but they all report additional material from Hisham that arent reported in Bukhari. Bukhari doesnt record the hadith that claim to attribute the age to Aisha herself. All such narrations come from Iraq, even those outside sahih Bukhari, and the majority of those are traced to Hisham bin Urwa, Asma's grandson, meaning there is no possibility to verify whether Hisham was involved in them directly or indirectly. Even when Ayman b. Khalid tries finding reports on Aisha's age originating outside Iraq, he still quotes a hadith that includes Hisham bin Urwa in the chain of transmission. So it all goes back to one source ultimately who himself was married to a 9 year old according to his own supporter GFHaddad. In addition to this obvious bias, he is also reported by hadith scholars to have become unreliable in his Iraq period due to him falsifying transmision chains that allegedly came from his father while the sources were different as even modern supporters of his such as Ayman b Khalid concede. Even if one were to consider Hisham reliable for argument's sake, while his own student Imam Malik began considering his accounts unreliable in his Iraqi period, we would still be confronted to difficulties showing how any attempt at specificaly determining Aisha's marriage age is not based upon contradiction-free information.

In his article, Khalid quotes a discussion from Tareekh Al-Islam between the historian Imam Adh-Dhahabi and Ibn Abee Az-Zinaad. The latter states Asma was 10 years older than Aisha yet we have Hisham claiming Asma lived until 100. Asma died in 73H (Taqri'bu'l-tehzi'b as well as Ibn Kathir's Al-bidayah wa'l-nihayah). If she was 100 in 73H according to Hisham himself then it means she was 27 at the time of Hijra. Consequently Aisha was 17 at the time and 18-19 when she married 1 or 2 years later. Knowing this difficulty to harmonize the records available with Hisham's, the historian Imam Adh-Dhahabi tries reducing Asma's age at death in order to make it fit with the reports on Aisha's marriage age "If this is true (Asma being 10 years older than Aisha), then the age of Asmaa when she passed away should be ninety-one".

There are political implications in such hadith as well. Aisha opposed Ali, to the point she led the opposite party into battle. Iraq and Kufa were the real centers of political turmoil and the people of Medina especially did not trust them. They further 'claimed' allegiance to the Family of the Prophet, yet we know how 'true' they lived up to their claims. The painting of her as a 'child' and 'not responsible', and one to play with dolls, in the context of who was right and wrong doesnt need to be dwelled upon to understand the motivations of certain narrators.

Public criticism, according to the tradition, was laid at Umar for his trying to marry Fatima, because she was young and Umar was old, almost the same age difference between the Prophet and Aisha. In fact, the traditions record that this was one of the objections of Ali for the union and public criticism had gotten to the point Umar had to defend himself for the move in public. Umar made the point that he only wanted to marry her to affirm his ties with the House of the Prophet. Umar didnt use the precedent of the Prophet marrying Aisha at an alleged young age. Also, if it was a norm of Arab culture, then why would he draw the criticism of the city of Medina for such an act? Further, in the Muwatta which is the representative work on the school of Medina, in the chapter on marrying younger women without asking them, this narration isnt even reported. And you would think, in Medina of all places, the marriage of the Prophet to a young Aisha would serve an evidence for the people of Medina. Where are the examples to substantiate the point of view that such practice was a norm in Arab culture? An interesting point to re-stress is that not only are there no examples to show how such practice was a norm, but also it is reported by GFHaddad that Urwa, the ultimate source of these traditions regarding Aisha's age, just so happenned to have married a 9year old. Besides his poor memory at the time he reported Aisha's age, there is now another reason to seriously doubt his credibility, namely the blatant need to falsify a hadith to serve his interest in justifying an act that far from being the "norm" of the prophet's time, was unacceptable to many including the prophet's own entourage.

[Nima]

 SoRoUsH, on 09 August 2012 - 03:26 AM, said:

Brother Alihussain...
Read the following thread carefully:
http://www.shiachat....t-consummation/

In my opinion, many people, who are eager to be defiant against each and every "secular" concern, do not take the time to properly understand the implications and the consequences of this issue.
It is very important to be certain about this topic before accepting it.
In my opinion, and I am sure many brothers will disagree, we do not have sufficient reasons to be certain or even almost certain about the final verdict regarding this issue.

In short, research this issue carefully.
Its consequences and implications are significant.

Keep the following in mind:
1) Authority comes only from the ahlul bayt . Not any of their siblings. There is a reason that God and our religion is very clear about who the twelve infallible imams are. Their brothers and other siblings do not have the same authority as them.

2) The sunna of The Prophet is eternal. This means whatever he did, as his sunna, is mustahab to do until the day of resurrection.
This implies that today it is mustahab to give 9-10 years old daughters away in marriage, even if the suitor is a 50+ years old man.

I may be taking a leap here but I am going to say that I believe even the defiant "conservatives," who do not budge to the pressure, would at least think twice about giving their own 9-10 years old daughters away in marriage to a much older man, regardless of how pious this much older man may be.
But if it is true that the prophet did "enter" Ayesha, when she was 10, then these defiant conservatives should be eager to commit a mustahab/recommended action and give their 9-10 years old daughters away in marriage, to be "entered" by a much older man. After all, they would be following prophet's sunna.


So, at the end, examine this issue carefully, and do not let the pressures of either side persuade you to either direction.
Make sure you do read the thread that I posted here as I believe many good points are already mentioned in there.

Let's say that this only Sahih hadith we have in our books are not credible and that Aisha was actually older( for the sake of the argument), does that mean that it is haram according to Islamic Shariah to marry a 9 year old(because the prophet didnt  marry her when she was 9)?

Hastening the marriage of girls upon puberty

23 Ü ÈÇÈ ÇÓÊÍÈÇÈ ÊÚÌíá ÊÒæíÌ ÇáÈäÊ ÚäÏ ÈáæÛåÇ æÊÍÕíäåÇ ÈÇáÒæÌ

23 – Chapter on the desirability of hastening the marrying of the daughter with her becoming baligh and fortifying her by the husband

1 – Muhammad b. Ya`qub from Muhammad b. Yahya from Ahmad b. Muhammad b. `Isa from one of his companions from Abu `Abdillah Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã.  He said: From the felicity of the man is that his daughter not menstruate in his house.

http://www.tashayyu....ries/chapter-23

all scholars agree that it mustahab (encouraged) to marry quite early, but it is not mandatory.

Edited by Nima, 10 August 2012 - 07:29 PM.

[SoRoUsH]

No it doesn't mean it is Haram.
The difference lies within whether it was prophet's sunna or not.
As you are aware, prophetic sunna are treated differently and hold a special place.
If we set our prophet as our role model and strive to emulate him, then we need to know what he did and what he did not do.

As I said previously,

Quote

2) The sunna of The Prophet is eternal. This means whatever he did, as his sunna, is mustahab to do until the day of resurrection.
This implies that today it is mustahab to give 9-10 years old daughters away in marriage, even if the suitor is a 50+ years old man.

I may be taking a leap here but I am going to say that I believe even the defiant "conservatives," who do not budge to the pressure, would at least think twice about giving their own 9-10 years old daughters away in marriage to a much older man, regardless of how pious this much older man may be.
But if it is true that the prophet did "enter" Ayesha, when she was 10, then these defiant conservatives should be eager to commit a mustahab/recommended action and give their 9-10 years old daughters away in marriage, to be "entered" by a much older man. After all, they would be following prophet's sunna.

Similarly, if this is a prophetic sunna, then any old man looking to "enter" into very young girls (as young as 10 years old), may be doing so to be rewarded hasanaat for following prophetic traditions.
If this is a prophetic sunna, not only old men wanting to "enter" into young girls shouldn't be shunned, they should be promoted and praised and their desire should be recommended, because it was a prophetic tradition.
Again, all these apply to today (our age), because prophet's sunna are eternal and timeless.

So, it is very important to know and be certain whether this was a prophet's Sunna or not.

Edited by SoRoUsH, 10 August 2012 - 08:23 PM.

[SoRoUsH]

Brother Nima,

Also, check the following link:
http://www.shiachat....50#entry2414578
Post #66

In the link that you posted, there are not any Saheeh/Hasan/Mawththaq hadeeths.

Let me quote myself from the other thread:

Quote

This is a bit off topic, but I looked into the following chapter as well, and did not find any authentic acceptable tradition, except #25043 which does not mention anything about the age of marriage.
http://www.tashayyu....ries/chapter-23

Please do correct me, if I am wrong.


Furthermore, here, we have a tradition, which undoubtedly is acceptable.

http://www.tashayyu....ries/chapter-46
ãõÍóãøóÏõ Èúäõ íóÚúÞõæÈó Úóäú ãõÍóãøóÏö Èúäö ÅöÓúãóÇÚöíáó Úóäö ÇáúÝóÖúáö Èúäö ÔóÇÐóÇäó æó Úóäú Úóáöíøö Èúäö ÅöÈúÑóÇåöíãó Úóäú ÃóÈöíåö ÌóãöíÚÇð Úóäö ÇÈúäö ÃóÈöí ÚõãóíúÑò Úóäú åöÔóÇãö Èúäö ÇáúÍóßóãö Úóäú ÃóÈöí ÚóÈúÏö Çááøóåö Ãóæú ÃóÈöí ÇáúÍóÓóäö Ú ÞóÇáó Þöíáó áóåõ ÅöäøóÇ äõÒóæøöÌõ ÕöÈúíóÇäóäóÇ æó åõãú ÕöÛóÇÑñ ÝóÞóÇáó ÅöÐóÇ ÒõæøöÌõæÇ æó åõãú ÕöÛóÇÑñ áóãú íóßóÇÏõæÇ Ãóäú íóÃúÊóáöÝõæÇ


1 – Muhammad b. Ya`qub from Muhammad b. Isma`il from al-Fadl b. Shadhan and from `Ali b. Ibrahim from his father all from Ibn Abi `Umayr from Hisham b. al-Hakam from Abu `Abdillah Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã or Abu ‘l-Hasan ÚáíåãÇ ÇáÓáÇã. He said: It was said to him: We marry our kids while they are minors. So he said: When you marry them while they are minors, hardly ever will they be in harmony (with one another).


This Hasan (or Saheeh) hadith is placed under the chapter: Chapter on the dislike of marrying minors


So, now, we have an undoubtedly acceptable tradition against marrying minor, and we have an idea out there that the prophet married Aisha when she was a minor and consummated the marriage at the age nine or ten.

Here are the questions that follow:
1) Did the Prophet marry Aisha when she was a minor?
2) Did the Prophet both marry and consummated the marriage after Aisha was not a minor anymore?
3) Did the Prophet marry Aisha when she was a minor, but consummated the marriage when she was not a minor anymore?

Also, pay close attention to the preceding question/statement itself.
It states: We marry our kids while they are minors.

This indicates that it was a common tradition to do so, yet our Imam seems to have spoken against this cultural tradition.


So here's a question that follows:

Since it was a common cultural tradition to do so, could it be that traditions were fabricated to link this cultural tradition to Islam, by claiming that the prophet married Aisha at a young age (according to sources, when she was 6)?

[Nima]

Baradar Souroush,


Regardless if muslims believe that the Prophet married with a young woman like Aisha or not, there are many hadiths that tell us that it is mustahab that women should get married very early.


1 – Muhammad b. Ya`qub from Muhammad b. Yahya from Ahmad b. Muhammad b. `Isa from one of his companions from Abu `Abdillah Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã.  He said: From the felicity of the man is that his daughter not menstruate in his house.

12 – Muhammad b. `Ali b. al-Husayn said: The Messenger of Allah Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå said: From the felicity of the man is that his daughter not menstruate in his house.
http://www.tashayyu....ries/chapter-23



The hadith you posted refers to a marriage between two children.
This hadith can not be used as an argument against aisha marriage (age)
And we have to also emphasize that there is a  difference between makroh and haram.

Edited by Nima, 11 August 2012 - 12:45 AM.

[SoRoUsH]

 Nima, on 11 August 2012 - 12:38 AM, said:

Baradar Souroush,


Regardless if muslims believe that the Prophet married with a young woman like Aisha or not, there are many hadiths that tell us that it is mustahab that women should get married very early.


1 – Muhammad b. Ya`qub from Muhammad b. Yahya from Ahmad b. Muhammad b. `Isa from one of his companions from Abu `Abdillah Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã.  He said: From the felicity of the man is that his daughter not menstruate in his house.

12 – Muhammad b. `Ali b. al-Husayn said: The Messenger of Allah Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå said: From the felicity of the man is that his daughter not menstruate in his house.
http://www.tashayyu....ries/chapter-23


The hadith you posted refers to a marriage between two children.
This hadith can not be used as an argument against aisha marriage (age)
And we have to also emphasize that there is a  difference between makroh and haram.

Brother Nima,
Neither of the hadeeths that you posted are acceptable.
The first is is Majhool and the second is mursal.
Therefore, both are weak.

I am not sure if you noticed in my previous post, but none of the hadeeths in that link are acceptable. They are all weak. Correct me if you think I am wrong.

You see.
This is precisely the issue.
Firstly, we do not have any acceptable evidence in our shia books that the prophet married Aisha at age 9 or 10.
Second, so far, all of the hadeeths that I have seen regarding marrying minors seem weak, hence, unacceptable.

As I have emphasized in the other thread, if you have solid evidence, solid acceptable hadeeths from our Imams regarding either of these two issues please present them.

Also, before you reply to this post, I strongly recommend you read the following link:
http://www.shiachat....t-consummation/

Many good points and issues have already been discussed in there.

Thanks

[mo7arbelmahdi]

 titumir, on 10 August 2012 - 04:50 PM, said:

"Blessed" wife? Were the wives of Nuh and Lut also "blessed"?

But the quran clearly confronts the wives of the prophet telling them they are blesse i will try to find the verse.

[OsamaHatum]

 mo7arbelmahdi, on 11 August 2012 - 09:38 AM, said:

But the quran clearly confronts the wives of the prophet telling them they are blesse i will try to find the verse.

Have you found it yet?

[shiamehdi14]

the prophet married aisha daughter of abu bakr because of political reasons. She was at least 16 or 17 when she married the prophet according to ammar nakshawani. He had a great speech explaining this controversy.

[Ali Musaaa :)]

 shiamehdi14, on 16 January 2013 - 09:50 PM, said:

the prophet married aisha daughter of abu bakr because of political reasons. She was at least 16 or 17 when she married the prophet according to ammar nakshawani. He had a great speech explaining this controversy.

It would appear Seyed Ammar has had a change of heart. Please watch his latest lecture on this issue.

[Perfectionist]

 Ali Musaaa :), on 16 January 2013 - 10:23 PM, said:

It would appear Seyed Ammar has had a change of heart. Please watch his latest lecture on this issue.

He is only human and all humans make mistakes. Hopefully he'll realise this is an error and return to his original conclusion which was the correct one.

[Ali Musaaa :)]

 Perfectionist, on 17 January 2013 - 04:01 AM, said:

He is only human and all humans make mistakes. Hopefully he'll realise this is an error and return to his original conclusion which was the correct one.

What gives you the impression that his original view was correct?

Have you seen his latest lecture?

So what if she was 10 years old? what does it prove? Why do you have an issue with her being at that age?

If you have an issue with Allah making a 12 year old Maryam pregnant with a Prophet of God then you have some issues you need to clear up.

[Darth Vader]

Can anyone prove that Ayesha got married to the holy Prophet before debating her age? Who read the nikah?

[Perfectionist]

 Ali Musaaa :), on 17 January 2013 - 04:21 AM, said:

What gives you the impression that his original view was correct?

Have you seen his latest lecture?

So what if she was 10 years old? what does it prove? Why do you have an issue with her being at that age?

If you have an issue with Allah making a 12 year old Maryam pregnant with a Prophet of God then you have some issues you need to clear up.

I mentioned the ages of Lady Mary and Joseph to you last week, in the "What is Mutah" thread (which you have decided not to reply to now) so I'm well aware and obviously don't have any issue with it my friend,

I have no issues at all about what happened in the past, to me it doesn't matter in the slightest whether Aisha was 9 or 109, nor should it matter to any Muslim or our overall faith in Islam.

The problem is that to some people it does matter, and if they believe that Aisha was very young (which I personally doubt) they consider this to be Sunnah of the Prophet and therefore an integral part of Islam. This is incorrect and has tragic consequences for young girls all over the world.

Or do you disagree brother?

[Ali Musaaa :)]

I agree, however, it is still a Sunnah of the Prophet (sawa) but so is marrying widows, lets not forget there are narrations which state his most beloved wife, Lady Khadijah was 15 years older than him.

In his time, this was a practice that wasnt seen as an issue, the same case with Maryam as well as later people like King Henry the 8th (Unless I am mistaken) whose wife was 11 years old, yet no one had an issue with that.

With that being said I understand exactly what you are saying.