81 replies to this topic

[Ali.20]

AlSalam Alaykum:

Please post as many things as possible that proves Christianity is not the real religion and Bible is corrupted.

JazakumAllah Khair

[AliHussainFaraji]

[Ibn Muhammad]

^^^^
Wow....That's all you need brother. Plus it is truth mixed with false. Basically it is based on the idea that someone dies for somebody else's mistake.

[Ali Musaaa :)]

^^^^
Wow....That's all you need brother. Plus it is truth mixed with false. Basically it is based on the idea that someone dies for somebody else's mistake.

I can't see the image for some reason

[Fink]

Christianity is not wrong, nor is Muhamedian Islam the only accepted faith by Allah swt.

Making kufr is wrong, but its nothing exclusive to christianity , just like how some Muslim sects commit blatant shirk.

Saying Jesus is God is wrong, but again not all christians believe that.

[AliHussainFaraji]

I can't see the image for some reason

Here is the link if that helps, brother:

http://sciencebasedl...asonproject.png

Christianity is not wrong, nor is Muhamedian Islam the only accepted faith by Allah swt.

Making kufr is wrong, but its nothing exclusive to christianity , just like how some Muslim sects commit blatant shirk.

Saying Jesus is God is wrong, but again not all christians believe that.

Christianity is wrong because it rejects the Quran, the only scripture 100% from God, they reject Prophets of Allah, they believe in racial superiority, slavery, oppression, injustice, etc. Christians have been some of the most vicious people in the history of mankind, even more so than the pagan Romans that they 'developed' from. Christopher Columbus, for example, was on a mission to raise money for the Catholic Church. When he got to America, he said that the indigenous people were some of the most friendly and peaceful people he had ever seen. He then proceeded to murder, rape and enslave them all.

Saying that Christianity is not wrong because they're essentially just Muslims that make mistakes is nonsense. By that logic we might as well say the polytheist Arabs of Jahiliyya were not wrong either.

Also, why don't you be specific with which Muslim sects you're referring to that commit blatant shirk.

Edited by AliHussainFaraji, 09 August 2012 - 11:13 AM.

[omar111]

Everything about Christianity is wrong
1) Christian God is Unjust and Unfair. He punished whole humanity with death, for the Sin of one person, Adam.And he only abolished this curse by sacrificing an innocent person, Jesus.But that was not a sacrifice, but cheating. Because no one can pay his own debt to himself and no one can sacrifice himself to please himself!
2) Gospels are not written or dictated by Jesus. They are written by four unknown authors who were using pseudonyms to hide their identity. Maybe they are written by church, under the supervision of Constantine at nycea, who wanted a united theology for Christianity at all cost.
3) In the obscene of any evidence of any direct wahi or inspiration on the gospel writers, Christians have proposed many theories to show that gospels were inspired. Automatic writing, Dictation or negative assistance theories are just some attempts by the Christians to prove that the Gospels were inspired. But gospels are just a bunch of stories that were collected from different oral tradition and to which certain theological concepts were added later
4) And then came Paul, an imposter who claimed to be an apostle of Jesus. He never knew Jesus, he hated the Christians and he invented the Christianity for Gentiles. But surely there were witnesses to conversion of Saul? Yes, one witness was Paul himself and the other witness was ananias.Ananias was the head priest at the trial of Jesus and he later was instrumental in martyrdom of his brother James

[xstatik2]

image upload

[Ibn Muhammad]

image upload

Now compare that to the Bible those 4 sentences are better than the whole Bible ITSELF

[buklau]

Why would God Crucify his only son to save the people that crucified him .__________________________________________.

[Ibn Muhammad]

Why would God Crucify his only son to save the people that crucified him .__________________________________________.

Because he felt like it, you questioning the almighty Father???

[Belial]

Christianity is too unspecific to be proven wrong.

[Haydar Husayn]

This doesn't prove Christianity 'wrong', but is interesting nevertheless:

[Ruq]

Here is the link if that helps, brother:

http://sciencebasedl...asonproject.png



Christianity is wrong because it rejects the Quran, the only scripture 100% from God, they reject Prophets of Allah, they believe in racial superiority, slavery, oppression, injustice, etc. Christians have been some of the most vicious people in the history of mankind, even more so than the pagan Romans that they 'developed' from. Christopher Columbus, for example, was on a mission to raise money for the Catholic Church. When he got to America, he said that the indigenous people were some of the most friendly and peaceful people he had ever seen. He then proceeded to murder, rape and enslave them all.

Saying that Christianity is not wrong because they're essentially just Muslims that make mistakes is nonsense. By that logic we might as well say the polytheist Arabs of Jahiliyya were not wrong either.

Also, why don't you be specific with which Muslim sects you're referring to that commit blatant shirk.

REALLY bad idea to judge what Christianity is by 'supposed' Christians, otherwise we might have to talk about what some 'supposed' Muslims are guilty of and whether or not people should be using that as a barometre to judge Islam.

[buklau]

Because he felt like it, you questioning the almighty Father???

LOL

[joshhacker5133]

Everything about Christianity is wrong
1) Christian God is Unjust and Unfair. He punished whole humanity with death, for the Sin of one person, Adam.And he only abolished this curse by sacrificing an innocent person, Jesus.But that was not a sacrifice, but cheating. Because no one can pay his own debt to himself and no one can sacrifice himself to please himself!
2) Gospels are not written or dictated by Jesus. They are written by four unknown authors who were using pseudonyms to hide their identity. Maybe they are written by church, under the supervision of Constantine at nycea, who wanted a united theology for Christianity at all cost.
3) In the obscene of any evidence of any direct wahi or inspiration on the gospel writers, Christians have proposed many theories to show that gospels were inspired. Automatic writing, Dictation or negative assistance theories are just some attempts by the Christians to prove that the Gospels were inspired. But gospels are just a bunch of stories that were collected from different oral tradition and to which certain theological concepts were added later
4) And then came Paul, an imposter who claimed to be an apostle of Jesus. He never knew Jesus, he hated the Christians and he invented the Christianity for Gentiles. But surely there were witnesses to conversion of Saul? Yes, one witness was Paul himself and the other witness was ananias.Ananias was the head priest at the trial of Jesus and he later was instrumental in martyrdom of his brother James

Considering that Jesus (isa) is considered a prophet in the qur'an and that Jews, Christians, and Muslims worship the same God not everything in christianity can be called wrong without calling God a liar.

[omar111]

Considering that Jesus (isa) is considered a prophet in the qur'an and that Jews, Christians, and Muslims worship the same God not everything in christianity can be called wrong without calling God a liar.[/i][/i][/i][/i][/i][/i][/i][/i][/i][/i][/i][/i][/i][/i][/i][/i][/i][/i][/i]

This Christianity for Gentiles is the invention of Paul. Paul totally changed the message of Jesus. But Paul always mentioned that he is preaching his own gospel and not that of Jesus. It is sad that Christians trusted it as the gospel of Jesus. He always differentiated between his gospel and teaching of Jesus.
In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
Romans 2:16
Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began . . .
Romans 16:25
1 Corinthians 15
Now, brothers and sisters, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. ² By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain
Paul admitted that he deceived everyone
. 1 Corinthians 9
²⁰ To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. ²¹ To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law

[Haydar Husayn]

What's your evidence for the Bible being inspired?

[AliHussainFaraji]

That is made to look impressive but in reality, it's not. It's the same arguments ad nauseum. The person that made this obviously did not understand the nature of inspiration. The Bible is not like the Quran. The Quran is regarded as the direct word of God. The Bible is not direct from the mouth of God. God moves people to write the truth down. It is inspired. Humans make mistakes.

Your entire logic is based on the assumption that they were simple mistakes.

For example, one gospel records that there was one man crucified with Jesus while another gospel says there were two. Does this mean they contradict each other in message? No, actually it confirms the Bible's authenticity. If you were on jury in a court, and two witnesses said word for word the same as the other, would you believe that they had independent ideas and you heard two different perspectives? No, you would assume that they had conspired together to present the exact same story.

Or, you know, they both saw the same thing and that's why their story is consistent. In fact, that's how the court system works. It would be a logical fallacy to assume that anyone whose story makes sense does so because he/she's a good liar.

If you were a cop and just arrested two suspects for break and enter, separated them and put each in a different room, then subsequently questioned them and one said they were both at his mom's house at 9 pm and the other said they were both playing soccer on the other side of the city at 9 pm, would you assume they're both telling the truth? That makes no sense.

By that logic the Quran is fake because people conspired to put it together (astaghfirullah). If, God forbid, someone killed someone you love and the police have 5 witnesses to the murder, all of whom recount the similar story of who did it, would you want the cop to let the perpetrator go on the basis that the stories of the witnesses were consistent and therefore conspired?

Minor imperfections, especially with silly things like the number of other people being crucified, indicates that the writers of the Bible witnessed a true story.

No, contradictions do not ascertain truth. If they were both there and saw the same thing, then they would both ascertain the same thing (or at least something similar), especially for something so significant (when people are paying the most attention) like the crucifixion of Jesus .

If they had fabricated it, they would have made diligent effort to get their stories to be the exact same. If I see a car crash, my report will be slightly different than another persons. It doesn't mean we are wrong, and it doesn't make our testimonies invalid. We simply saw things from different perspectives and remembered different details. Maybe I saw who cut who off, while the other person didn't, but he is able to tell you how many people are in the car. Both are important details, but we may contradict each other because we see things differently. My focus would be different than his.

A difference in vantage point for a sudden event that happens at the blink of an eye like a car crash is not the same as major contradictions attributed by some of the most attentive people at the time of the Prophet Isa . You're also focusing all your attention on the 'one or two people at Jesus' crucifixion' contradiction. Minor imperfections don't account for blatant fabrication of events and speeches that never even happened.

The Sunnah was also put together by man, people who forget and make mistakes. There aren't wild contradictions like whether or not the Prophet Muhammad said he was the son of God or not, if salvation is by faith alone or not, whether prayers are obligatory or not, etc, and the contradictions that do exist makes those hadiths deemed to be unreliable/unauthentic. Things like Jesus saying he's the son of God is not something that could be accidently attributed to him, especially when he never uttered anything similar to those words and repeatedly stated that he was simply a servant of Allah. Things like that, the Trinity, especially when you consider how important such claims were during that political period, Jesus drinking alcohol, etc. are clear works of the imagination. Things like saying not fight your oppressor but love your oppressor are clearly for political gain. It's not all 'there was one person there. No! there was two people there' contradictions. The scriptures that Moses and Jesus brought would also not have been altered if not on purpose. The fact that many of these contradictions were injected into those scriptures also shows that it was done purposely.

The fact is that contradictions do not in any way imply truth, that's completely illogical and quite assbackwards. Some of the contradictions in the Bible could also not have been made due to human error, and the altering of written scriptures would also not have been altered due to a difference in vantage point.

[coldcow]

I think any Muslim should be cautious when trying to point out the deviations in Christianity from what it was supposed to be. Not only do you risk insulting our own prophets and God, but you risk turning them away from God altogether. Bring them to Islam before you try and turn them away from Christianity.

[Muhammad Ibrahim]

That is made to look impressive but in reality, it's not. It's the same arguments ad nauseum. The person that made this obviously did not understand the nature of inspiration. The Bible is not like the Quran. The Quran is regarded as the direct word of God. The Bible is not direct from the mouth of God. God moves people to write the truth down. It is inspired. Humans make mistakes. For example, one gospel records that there was one man crucified with Jesus while another gospel says there were two. Does this mean they contradict each other in message? No, actually it confirms the Bible's authenticity. If you were on jury in a court, and two witnesses said word for word the same as the other, would you believe that they had independent ideas and you heard two different perspectives? No, you would assume that they had conspired together to present the exact same story. Minor imperfections, especially with silly things like the number of other people being crucified, indicates that the writers of the Bible witnessed a true story. If they had fabricated it, they would have made diligent effort to get their stories to be the exact same. If I see a car crash, my report will be slightly different than another persons. It doesn't mean we are wrong, and it doesn't make our testimonies invalid. We simply saw things from different perspectives and remembered different details. Maybe I saw who cut who off, while the other person didn't, but he is able to tell you how many people are in the car. Both are important details, but we may contradict each other because we see things differently. My focus would be different than his.

Your entire logic is horribly flawed.

In classical logic, a contradiction consists of a logical incompatibility between two or more propositions. It occurs when the propositions, taken together, yield two conclusions which form the logical, usually opposite inversions of each other.

Contradictions occur due to man's imperfect nature (just like you said). People who make criminal accusations, for example, are told to repeat their story several times. If the story is not almost exactly the same every time, police assume that person is lying. Alibis are also another good example. If a person claims they were at the mall at the time the person they are accused of murdering was killed and people from the mall (including people he doesn't even personally know) confirm that he was there, then that is evidence he could not have committed the murder, not evidence of a conspiracy. Things like two or one person being crucified at such a major and unforgettable event like the crucifixion of Jesus , the most important man in the world at the time, is not some minor detail that is easily forgotten. Either the people who wrote that down literally lost their mind or they lied. It's really not that hard to believe that the same people who tried to kill the Prophet Jesus would also lie about things he said or did. Driver's not paying attention while driving is also a completely unsuitable analogy.

Corroborating evidence confirms the truth. Contradictions show conflicting reports (i.e. someone's lying). The entire notion that contradictions confirm the truth and consistency and corroborating accounts show lies is completely illogical and irrational.

Like AliHussainFaraji said, simply having bad memory would also not cause the written scriptures they brought to be altered as well.

[CLynn]

One small comment;

"This Christianity for Gentiles is the invention of Paul."

Actually it is a prophesy of the old testament that Paul fulfilled. The old testament talks about how the gentiles will be called.
This was made to happen through the conversion of Paul when Christ appeared to Him and said to "stop persecuting my people"... those who believed in Jesus.... and he was then sent to the gentiles.

[omar111]

One small comment;

"This Christianity for Gentiles is the invention of Paul."

Actually it is a prophesy of the old testament that Paul fulfilled. The old testament talks about how the gentiles will be called.
This was made to happen through the conversion of Paul when Christ appeared to Him and said to "stop persecuting my people"... those who believed in Jesus.... and he was then sent to the gentiles.

Servant songs of Isaiah are not very clear. Israel as a nation, a collective body within Israel, the community surrounding the writer of the songs, or a specific person (Moses, David, Cyrus) can all be the suffering servant.

Jesus himself may have seen himself as the fulfillment of these passages
³¹ because he was teaching his disciples. He said to them, “The Son of Man is going to be delivered into the hands of men. They will kill him, and after three days he will rise.” ³² But they did not understand what he meant and were afraid to ask him about it.Mark 9

Disciples find in the Servant Songs a messianic image of Jesus Christ
³² This is the passage of Scripture the eunuch was reading:
“He was led like a sheep to the slaughter,
and as a lamb before its shearer is silent,
so he did not open his mouth.
³³ In his humiliation he was deprived of justice.
Who can speak of his descendants?
For his life was taken from the earth.”^[b]
34 The eunuch asked Philip, “Tell me, please, who is the prophet talking about, himself or someone else?” ³⁵ Then Philip began with that very passage of Scripture and told him the good news about Jesus.
Acts 8

Mathew again misquotes Isaiah to prophesize Jesus
^{Mathew 12
17} That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying,
¹⁸ Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.
¹⁹ He shall not strive, nor cry; neither shall any man hear his voice in the streets.
²⁰ A bruised reed shall he not break, and smoking flax shall he not quench, till he send forth judgment unto victory.
²¹ And in his name shall the Gentiles trust



On the other hand, the apostle Paul also adapts the Prophecy of the Servant to his own life
⁴⁷ For this is what the Lord has commanded us:
“‘I have made you a light for the Gentiles,
that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth.’ Acts 13

Christians must first decide if the prophecy is for the Jesus or Paul.

[CLynn]

The prophesy of Isaiah refers to Jesus, however, Jesus did nt teach and preach to the gentiles, He taught and preached to the Jews. It was however, Jesus, who appears to Paul on the road to Damascus and converts him and instructs him to go and teach the message of Jesus to the gentiles. It was through Jesus, through Paul, that the gentiles were led to God.

[omar111]

The prophesy of Isaiah refers to Jesus, however, Jesus did nt teach and preach to the gentiles, He taught and preached to the Jews. It was however, Jesus, who appears to Paul on the road to Damascus and converts him and instructs him to go and teach the message of Jesus to the gentiles. It was through Jesus, through Paul, that the gentiles were led to God.

Do you have any proof that Jesus appeared to Paul on the Road to Damascus? We do have contradictory accounts of appearance, of which Paul is the sole witness. This is strange that Jesus never appeared to his twelve true disciples and chooses a person who made a living by persecuting Christians, his only Prophet to gentiles.