10 replies to this topic

[saza1328]

As-salamualaykum,

Can we say that practicing polygamy in America is haram? In other words, can we claim that Islamic law requires that we abide by the law of the land, and since polygamy is not allowed in America, then as Muslims we should not engage in it?

I read this from a news article that states that polygamy is not Islamically permissible in America: "

Islamic Law requires adherents to abide by the laws of the land in which they reside. Regardless of whether an American Muslim subscribes to a liberal or conservative viewpoint of polygamy, as noted above, they are religiously prohibited from engaging in polygamous relationships because it is illegal in the United States to do so."

http://www.huffingto..._b_1001163.html

In general, what role does the law of the land play in relation to Islamic law?

Thanks in advance for any feedback!

[kadhim]

No. In America / other Western countries, it is NOT illegal for a man to have a committed relationship to more than one woman at the same time. However, it is illegal to legally register with the state more than one spouse at a time.

[HellHound]

Zahratul_Islam, on 30 July 2012 - 10:35 AM, said:

This has always been my understanding. What about the legal rights and responsibilities that come with registering with the state? Doesn't it negate the concept of equality if the state in which you marry bars your wives from having the same rights and legal standing?

Perhaps that can be counteracted with equitably distributed insurance among the wives? I'm not an expert on Law, but I'm dead sure that one can exploit loopholes in the system to their advantage. Just my thoughts.

[kadhim]

Zahratul_Islam, on 30 July 2012 - 10:35 AM, said:

This has always been my understanding. What about the legal rights and responsibilities that come with registering with the state? Doesn't it negate the concept of equality if the state in which you marry bars your wives from having the same rights and legal standing?

Well, tax breaks, I guess you'd just have to claim one wife and make sure that the tax benefits benefit all 3.
For rights, such as rights of inheritance, rights to alimony on divorce, and some other items, possibly can engineer private legal contract arrangements for these things.

[Ruq]

Ive read this thing about abiding by laws of the land before, but i always assumed it was when those laws didnt conflict with Islamic ones. Does it apply to laws that make halal haram?

[Gypsy]

Zahratul_Islam, on 30 July 2012 - 10:35 AM, said:

This has always been my understanding. What about the legal rights and responsibilities that come with registering with the state? Doesn't it negate the concept of equality if the state in which you marry bars your wives from having the same rights and legal standing?

Since only one wife is legally allowed per man/husband, then the other wives are not acknowledge as his official spouse. Without being a legal wife, the women would not get the benefits that are common to the spouse (i.e health insurance, tax breaks, etc).

And in case of the divorce or death of the spouse (husband), the first wife will be the only one who will get the protection from the state.

~Ruqaya, on 30 July 2012 - 02:54 PM, said:

Ive read this thing about abiding by laws of the land before, but i always assumed it was when those laws didnt conflict with Islamic ones. Does it apply to laws that make halal haram?

Well..cohabiting with someone is not illegal in the western countries. So, it's not like someone is going to come, knock on your door and arrest you for having relationship with too many women. But they are laws that disallow polygamy over here and they don't promote or facilitate in any way for its citizen to have multiple spouses. I don't know how many people get prosecuted under this law since the government don't really care private relationship.

Edited by Gypsy, 30 July 2012 - 03:40 PM.

[ImamAliLover]

kadhim, on 30 July 2012 - 10:26 AM, said:

No. In America / other Western countries, it is NOT illegal for a man to have a committed relationship to more than one woman at the same time. However, it is illegal to legally register with the state more than one spouse at a time.

Salam brother you've hit the nail on the head.  If you go around spreading your seed and have a new "baby momma" every other week, there doesn't seem to be a problem with that legally.  But if you take care of the women and actually provide for them to the point that they think that you're basically married, God help you.

Edited by ImamAliLover, 30 July 2012 - 09:31 PM.

[saza1328]

Yeah, but the point of the matter is, since polygamy is illegal in America (it has been illegal since 1878), the second wife is not legally recognized as the man's wife by the state, and therefore this wife has no rights in the eyes of the state. So, if her husband were to be abusive (God forbid),for example, then she cannot seek the state for protection since she is not legally recognized as his wife.

Furthermore, all 50 states have laws against polygamy, and the states vary as to how they characterize it (whether as a felony, misdemeanor, etc). http://usmarriagelaw...amy/index.shtml
Therefore, the punishment for polygamy varies from state to state, depending on how the state characterizes it as. For example, in California, this is the punishment is as follows: "Bigamy is punishable by a fine not exceeding ten thousand dollars ($10,000) or by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or in the state prison."
http://law.onecle.co.../penal/283.html
So, a man is disobeying the law of the land and can be punished if he were to have a 2nd wife. And this second wife does not have equal rights as the first wife (in fact, she has zero rights), and therefore equality does not exist between the two wives, and doesn't Islam mandate that in polygamy, all the wives need to be on an equal footing?

And, yes, unfortunately, America is not against spouses having affairs, etc. But that's a separate matter. I'm only talking about this act of polygamy in America, and whether we can consider it a haram act since it is not legally recognized by the state.

Plus, as Muslims, aren't we supposed to law-abiding citizens (Ayatullah Seestani touches on this idea that we must obey the law of the land in the introduction of his  work "A Code of Practice For Muslims in the West: http://www.al-islam....uslims-in-west/)? And since polygamy is not a wajib act, then one should not engage in it, in a land that prohibits it, right?

Let me know where you think my reasoning may be flawed because I'm just thinking this through and don't know what the correct answer is (if there is even a correct answer-- there very well can be different interpretations).  

[kadhim]

The relationship is not illegal. Trying to register multiple marriages is.
If one does not try to partake in such fraud, there is nothing illegal. It is a private relationship between the parties involved.
That the government discriminates against anyone outside its own limited concept of marriage is immaterial.
The Islamic law gives the several wives equal rights and recognition. So long as the husband materially provides in an equal manner to them, it is perfectly legitimate religiously.

[dawudi]

kadhim, on 02 August 2012 - 11:42 AM, said:

So long as the husband materially provides in an equal manner to them, it is perfectly legitimate religiously.

Question - if all the wives are financially independent, what happens to this condition? Does it become obsolete?