18 replies to this topic

[Auqab]

I havent heard sunnis give durood on prophet (sawas) & his family or naray (takbeer, risalat, hayderi) in their gatherings. Is this something they consider biddat.

Update: Correction - I do see them saying naray takbir but only when they are beheading some innocent guy or shooting people. But I still dont know about the durood.

[Murtada]

Some Sunnis do. Some Pakistani Sunnis, at least. And depending on their "school of thought," since they are too much to count, some even say naray Haidari.

[Hasan0404]

Well the Deoband school of though just say Naray Takbeer.

The Barelvi school of thought gives Durood and says Naray takbeer, Risalat and Haidari,
but their context of naray Haidari is different from shias.

[Haydar Husayn]

Naray Haideri is just a (Urdu?) slogan, so why should they say it? It's not like it's part of the Sunnah or anything.

[Hasan0404]

Haydar Husayn, on 01 August 2012 - 12:52 PM, said:

Naray Haideri is just a (Urdu?) slogan, so why should they say it? It's not like it's part of the Sunnah or anything.

Salam. yes naray haidari is urdu slogan, and it is not backed by sunnah like many things which are practiced.

The school of thoughts i mentioned are from sub continent.

[Hannibal]

What is a naray haydari ?

Edited by Hannibal, 04 August 2012 - 03:23 AM.

[Sapphire]

NARAAAAY HAYDARIIIIIII...................................YA ALI

[Hasan0404]

Hannibal, on 04 August 2012 - 03:15 AM, said:

What is a naray haydari ?

Nara means slogan. Naray Haidari means the slogan of Ali.

[Ali_Hussain]

Hasan0404, on 04 August 2012 - 08:12 AM, said:

Nara means slogan. Naray Haidari means the slogan of Ali.

It's a bit ironic then in that case, that they shout 'ya ali' after, because the slogan of Ali (a) was 'Allahu Akbar'

[muslimunity1]

Aslamalaykum,

@Hannibal

Quote

What is a naray haydari ?

Sit in a mosque full of Pakistanis or Indians and you will find out.

[Alejandro Sosa]

Oh, 'naray' is part of Islam now is it?

[amiramin]

Sunnies gives Durood and says Naray hadari all the time

[Rasul]

Does it not mean 'Call'

[Hannibal]

muslimunity1, on 04 August 2012 - 09:04 AM, said:

Aslamalaykum,

@Hannibal



Sit in a mosque full of Pakistanis or Indians and you will find out.

I think I know what you are talking about now.

I remember my brother in law was telling me they kept doing it at Muslim Cong. They would say "naaray" (something like that) and then wait 6-7 seconds and scream "Haydar". When they said "naaray" again followed with a pause, my bro in law wanted to shout "Umar!!", but decided against it.

[Hasan0404]

Ali_Hussain, on 04 August 2012 - 08:21 AM, said:

It's a bit ironic then in that case, that they shout 'ya ali' after, because the slogan of Ali (a) was 'Allahu Akbar'

Y is it ironic brother. is it blasphemy or what?
First comes Nara y Takbeer, then Nara y Risalay and in the last Nara y Haidari.

[Ali_Hussain]

^ because you said it mean slogan, so 'slogan of haydar' I guess? The slogan of Haydar (a) was Allahu Akbar, unless you think Imam Ali (a) went around screaming his own name?

And I do think it is sad that 'ya Ali' has replaced 'Allahu Akbar' is the hearts of the muslims, if you ever go to any kind of procession, even the al-quds day one, you will see what gets shouted more.

Also, in certain communities, when people revert, instead of Allahu Akbar, or salawat, they shout 'ya Ali' ?? It's very strange behaviour.

Imam Ali (a) emphasized good manners, if someone is trying to give a lecture, it is very rude to keep shouting things out while he is talking. Were people really doing that while Imam Ali (a) was giving a khutba? Whats more when kids do it, instead of being disciplined, people say stuff like 'masha Allah'

[Kismet110]

Ali_Hussain, on 05 August 2012 - 05:22 AM, said:

^ because you said it mean slogan, so 'slogan of haydar' I guess? The slogan of Haydar (a) was Allahu Akbar, unless you think Imam Ali (a) went around screaming his own name?

And I do think it is sad that 'ya Ali' has replaced 'Allahu Akbar' is the hearts of the muslims, if you ever go to any kind of procession, even the al-quds day one, you will see what gets shouted more.

Also, in certain communities, when people revert, instead of Allahu Akbar, or salawat, they shout 'ya Ali' ?? It's very strange behaviour.

Imam Ali (a) emphasized good manners, if someone is trying to give a lecture, it is very rude to keep shouting things out while he is talking. Were people really doing that while Imam Ali (a) was giving a khutba? Whats more when kids do it, instead of being disciplined, people say stuff like 'masha Allah'

What are you talking about? Nara doesn't mean slogan, it means call as in raising a call or similar. In majalis there are often 3 such 'calls' (Takbir, Risalaat, Haideri) but often Haideri on it's own.

Before you go off on another tangent it's because Wiliayah already covers Tawheed and Nubuwaat, no one believes in it in isolation as that's impossible.

And most speakers (well, those with any passion or pulse at least) WANT people to express their appreciation by way of well timed and uplifting slogans - I dread to think what kind of lectures you go to where the speaker thinks it's rude to mention Allah, Paak Nabi or Maula Ali during the speech?

Are you a fan of the muqassir Zaki Baqri by any chance?

ALI

[Ali_Hussain]

Kismet110, on 07 August 2012 - 06:48 AM, said:

What are you talking about? Nara doesn't mean slogan, it means call as in raising a call or similar. In majalis there are often 3 such 'calls' (Takbir, Risalaat, Haideri) but often Haideri on it's own.

First of all, I was responding to the brother who said it means 'slogan'.

Was does that mean that in a majlis there are 'often' three such calls, based on what? My whole point was trying to get peoples behaviour to be in line with that of the teaching of Imam Ali Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã, if people did use to shout these things out while the Imam was talking fine, I stand corrected, I just don't think they did.

Honestly, what gets called out the most? Are all three equal? Interchangeable?

Quote

And most speakers (well, those with any passion or pulse at least) WANT people to express their appreciation by way of well timed and uplifting slogans - I dread to think what kind of lectures you go to where the speaker thinks it's rude to mention Allah, Paak Nabi or Maula Ali during the speech?

Do you really think that saying 'ya Ali' is the same as saying salawat or takbir?

Do you think there are more narrations about staying quiet when a teacher is talking, or shouting over him?

When you read the words of Imam Sajjad Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã, don't you think it is a valid point to make, that peope should listen, and not disrupt? Even if there can be various interpreatation for this, knowing the akhlaq of the Imam Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã, no being disruptive is a valid one.

[C1. RIGHTS OF LEADERS]

[16] The right of the one who trains you (sa'is) through knowledge is magnifying him, respecting his sessions, listening well to him, and attending to him with devotion. You should not raise your voice toward him. You should never answer anyone who asks him about something, in order that he may be the one who answers. You should not speak to anyone in his session nor speak ill of anyone with him. If anyone ever speaks ill of him in your presence, you should defend him. You should conceal his faults and make manifest his virtues. You should not sit with him in enmity or show hostility toward him in friendship. If you do all of this, God's angels will give witness for you that you went straight to him and learned his knowledge for God's sake, not for the sake of the people.

http://www.al-islam....a/treatise.html

Imam al-Baqir (a) also speaks of this:

“When you sit with a scholar, be more eager to hear him than to talk yourself. Learn how to listen well just as you learn how to speak well, and do not interrupt his speech.”

Al-Hayat, v.2, p.273, v.1, p.222.

Quote

Are you a fan of the muqassir Zaki Baqri by any chance?

I don't even know who that is, but for you, anyone who wants to follow the sunna is a muqassir, so it wouldn't suprise me if I would like him.

Edited by Ali_Hussain, 07 August 2012 - 07:37 AM.

[Kismet110]

Ali_Hussain, on 07 August 2012 - 07:37 AM, said:

First of all, I was responding to the brother who said it means 'slogan'.

Was does that mean that in a majlis there are 'often' three such calls, based on what? My whole point was trying to get peoples behaviour to be in line with that of the teaching of Imam Ali Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã, if people did use to shout these things out while the Imam was talking fine, I stand corrected, I just don't think they did.

Honestly, what gets called out the most? Are all three equal? Interchangeable?



Do you really think that saying 'ya Ali' is the same as saying salawat or takbir?

Do you think there are more narrations about staying quiet when a teacher is talking, or shouting over him?

When you read the words of Imam Sajjad Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã, don't you think it is a valid point to make, that peope should listen, and not disrupt? Even if there can be various interpreatation for this, knowing the akhlaq of the Imam Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã, no being disruptive is a valid one.

[C1. RIGHTS OF LEADERS]

[16] The right of the one who trains you (sa'is) through knowledge is magnifying him, respecting his sessions, listening well to him, and attending to him with devotion. You should not raise your voice toward him. You should never answer anyone who asks him about something, in order that he may be the one who answers. You should not speak to anyone in his session nor speak ill of anyone with him. If anyone ever speaks ill of him in your presence, you should defend him. You should conceal his faults and make manifest his virtues. You should not sit with him in enmity or show hostility toward him in friendship. If you do all of this, God's angels will give witness for you that you went straight to him and learned his knowledge for God's sake, not for the sake of the people.

http://www.al-islam....a/treatise.html

Imam al-Baqir (a) also speaks of this:

“When you sit with a scholar, be more eager to hear him than to talk yourself. Learn how to listen well just as you learn how to speak well, and do not interrupt his speech.”

Al-Hayat, v.2, p.273, v.1, p.222.



I don't even know who that is, but for you, anyone who wants to follow the sunna is a muqassir, so it wouldn't suprise me if I would like him.

Honestly, is there no limit to the literalism you and one or two others (HINT: you always 'like' his posts) are preaching on here? No wonder why you and him are regularly labelled as Wahabbis.

Since when has appreciation of someone recalling the fudhayl or musayb of Ahlebayt become a bida'ah? And if it's wrong to show appreciation in this way why hasn't a single cleric told his audience to refrain from it?

No scholars say there's any issue with saying or calling Ya Muhammad or Ya Ali so where do you get off in trying to paint it otherwise? What are you and your literalist buddies going to come up with next - saying Ya Hussain during ashre Muharram is wrong?

Where did I write Ya Ali should replace salawaat or takbir? More worringly, why are you comparing Allah and durood with Ya Ali?

Why are you putting up quotes about "sitting" with a scholar when the subject is slogans at a majlis?

Maybe the lectures you go to are in a library rather than an Imambargah full of Shi'ah but instead of giving us your own opinions on what is or isn't allowed or sunnah get some proof that saying Ya Ali (or Ya Rasullah or Allah Ho Akbar) loudly in unison is not permissible and we'll go from there.

ALI