21 replies to this topic

[Mujtaba786]

Salaams,

As many of us know, there is a 'waiting period' between when you die and the Day of Judgement which is called "Barzakh" in which everyone will undergo the squeezing of the grave and other punishments (depending on the severity of your sins obviously). When the Universe is destroyed on the Day of Judgement (after Imam (a.s.) resurrects and builds a government etc and brings peace to the world) will the people who die on that day also undergo Barzakh? Will some be resurrected straight after they die without needing to go to this "middle-realm"?

What are your opinions/ideas?


(Please correct me if any of my knowledge is wrong )

[Auqab]

Good question. I always wondered about the same. My thinking is that people will only go to heaven or hell only after the judgment day and until then there is barzakh for all. So what about those pious momineen who dont deserve the torment of barzakh?

[Mujtaba786]

Yeah that's what I believe also. I don't think it would be logical that the people who die on that day when the Universe will be destroyed will just "skip" Barzakh. Some of your sins are supposed to be forgiven through the punishments in Barzakh so everyone should undergo it. I also read that the extremely pious people will not suffer in Barzakh if they haven't committed sins and that the squeezing of the grave will actually be like a comforting hug for them.

[Maitham]

Wa salam
Actually from what i've been hearing it seems some sleep through this and others do not. there are some indepth
classes by Hajjatul islam sayyid Rizvi about barzak up on youtube. if anyone needs a link to the page they are on let me know.

Edited by Maitham, 29 July 2012 - 11:01 PM.

[Mujtaba786]

Maitham, on 29 July 2012 - 11:00 PM, said:

Wa salam
Actually from what i've been hearing it seems some sleep through this and others do not. there are some indepth
classes by Hajjatul islam sayyid Rizvi about barzak up on youtube. if anyone needs a link to the page they are on let me know.

Some sleep through it? I thought it was like another sort of afterlife. But yeah, true say, it would make sense that the very pious would just sleep through it till the day of judgement because they may not have many sins to be accounted/punished for.
Could you give me a link to their page please?
Thanks a lot

Edited by Mujtaba786, 29 July 2012 - 11:17 PM.

[Maitham]

Your welcome

http://www.youtube.c...d&view=0&page=2 you will have to go to page three for the 1st one the others are on page 2.

[shabberhaider]

i heard/read that for some when they are raised and asked for how long they have been asleep they will answer 'a day or a part of a day'  i suppose this would be for the pious and religious ones.  It was likened to the story of 'the companions of the cave'

[Mujtaba786]

@Shabberhaider
That is a very good point and comparison. Im guessing that will only really apply to the very pious such as the great companions of the Ahlulbayt.

[Ali_Hussain]

I made a topic asking about this as well, didn't get any answers though

Ali_Hussain, on 17 July 2012 - 04:24 PM, said:

1)

Pressing Of The Grave Is An Agreed (True) Fact

Allamah Majlisi says in Haqqul Yaqeen: All Muslims have a unanimously agreed belief that the squeezing of grave and both reward and punishment therein are real facts. According to reliable hadiths, the grave will press the same body which was been buried. Of course, every body is not being necessarily squeezed in the grave. It depends upon the deeds, that is, this punishment is inflicted only on those who have earned it by sinning. The degree of pressure will also depend on the severity if his sins. The Holy Prophet (s.a.w.s.) is reported to have said that the squeezing of the grave is the expiation of the sin of wasting away the bounties granted by God.

Shaikh Kulaini (r.a.) has, reliably narrated from Abu Baseer that: I asked Imam Jafar Sadiq (a.s): Is any body spared from the sandwiching in grave?

The Hazrat replied: May God save. Very few people escape from the pressure in grave.

When the stepdaughter of the Holy Prophet, whose name was Ruqaiya, expired the Holy Prophet stood at her grave raising his head towards the sky. Tears flew from his eyes. Then he told the audience: I remembered the calamity from which this lady has just passed. It me extremely gloomy and I prayed: O Allah! Forgive her. You are Most Merciful. Please save her from the pressurizing of grave. Then he said: God has pardoned her.

It seldom so happens that a person is saved from the pressure of grave. This is because the squeezing of the grave is the result of sins. The matter is so sensitive that even an unwise and unjust behaviour with one's own family members also causes such squeezing in the grave.

D. Shirazi, al-ma’aad [eng], the pressing of the grave, p. 45

http://www.al-islam.org/the-hereafter/


2)

What has been affirmed by (genuine) traditions in this respect is that souls after death are of two kinds: those which proceed to reward or punishment; and those which are abolished and therefore know neither reward nor punishment. A tradition has been related from as-Sãdiq, peace be upon him, which confirms and clarifies this interpretation. He was asked: "What will happen to the spirit of the dead? and where will it abide?" He replied: "The dead are of two categories: [a] Either purely faithfully, or [b] purely wicked; then the spirits of each passes from his body (lit. house-haykal) to its like, and each is rewarded for its acts till the Day of Resurrection. On the Day of Resurrection Allãh will restore his body and insert his spirit into it, and call him to accept the final judgment for his deeds. The spirit of the faithful will pass from his dead body to a similar form, and abide in a paradise of Allãh, where he will enjoy a perpetual grace till the Day of Resurrection. But the unbeliever's spirit will pass to a form similar to itself and abide in fire and torture till the Day of Resurrection. And that this is the lot of the believer is proved by the speech of Allãh: It was said: "Enter paradise". He said: "Ah! Would my people had knowledge that my Lord has forgiven me . . ." [36:26-27]. And that the unbeliever's state is as has been mentioned is proved by the speech of Allãh: The Fire, to which they shall be exposed morning and evening, and on the Day when the Hour is come*: "Admit the people of Pharaoh into the most terrible chastisement!" [40:46]. Thus, He, the Exalted, tells that a believer, after his death as he is admitted to paradise, says: "Ah! Would that my people had knowledge that . . ." Also, He relates that an unbeliever is admitted to chastisement after his death and that he is tortured morning and evening until the Day of Resurrection he will be made to abide in Hell.

As for him who falls into oblivion (man yulhã ‘anhu), his spirit will be destroyed after the decomposition of his body; thus, he will be aware of nothing till the Day of Resurrection. This is the state of those who are neither purely faithful nor purely wicked. Allãh Almighty speaks of their state and says: He of them who was fairest in the way will say: "You have terried only a day" [20:104]. Thus, He demonstrates that a certain group of people on the Day of Resurrection will not remember how long they were in the tombs, so that some will assume that they were in them ten days, and some will suppose a day only. This, of course, cannot be the state of those who have been tortured or blessed until the Day of Resurrection, since he who has enjoyed perpetual pleasure or punishment will not forget the treatment he experienced, not will he be uncertain about it in his life after death. It was related from Abū ‘Abdillãh, peace be upon him, that he said: "Only those who are purely faithful or purely unbelievers will be questioned in the grave, whereas the others will fall into oblivion." He said concerning the second coming (ar-raj‘ah): "Those who will return at the coming of the Qãim (the Holder), peace be upon him, will be only those who are purely faithful or purely unbelievers; as for the others, there will be no return until the day of Resurrection.

al-mufeed, emendation of a shi’ite creed [eng], chapter 20, concerning souls and spirits, p 57-58

http://mubahilatv.co...id-294-cid-172/

--------------------------------------------

There seems to be a disagreement on this issue here, the first view as presented by sayed shirazi (also quite similar is abbas al-qumi's verision in manazil al-akhira) is of course the more common one. In shaykh al-mufeed's version, it would seem that many (probably most) of us would fall into oblivion only to be awoken of the day of resurrection, as I would imagine most of us are not 'purely unbelivers' or 'purely faithful'.

Both versions make sense, is there a more correct opinion?

http://www.shiachat....13#entry2442213

[Mujtaba786]

@Ali_Hussain
Salaams
I agree with your view that most of us will then fall into "oblivion" as we  are in between purely unbelievers and purely faithful. It also makes sense that those who are purely faithful will enjoy the Barzakh as if it is a road to heaven and that those who are purely unbelievers will suffer and (inshallah) be partly forgiven through this punishment. But then the question arises (as I believe your question is also) if we are neither purely faithful or vice versa and are in between, then aren't we forgiven for some of our sins through the punishment of the squeezing of the grave until the DOJ? Or do we just fall into "oblivion" where we are not forgiven through punishment until the DOJ?

[sNiPe_]

Maitham, on 30 July 2012 - 01:27 AM, said:

Your welcome

http://www.youtube.c...d&view=0&page=2 you will have to go to page three for the 1st one the others are on page 2.

thank you brother!!
i think everyone should watch this. i watched part 1 of it last night, and it is was very informative!

here's a link to part 1:

[Mujtaba786]

sNiPe_, on 30 July 2012 - 09:59 PM, said:

thank you brother!!
i think everyone should watch this. i watched part 1 of it last night, and it is was very informative!

here's a link to part 1:

Definitely! Thanks Maitham for the link
@Snipe_ I'll try getting round to watching it tomorrow inshallah

[Maitham]

Your both welcome and Alhamdulillah for it. and i think the issue under examination in this topic is in one of the later parts.

Edited by Maitham, 30 July 2012 - 11:14 PM.

[Mujtaba786]

Maitham, on 30 July 2012 - 11:13 PM, said:

Your both welcome and Alhamdulillah for it. and i think the issue under examination in this topic is in one of the later parts.

Oh i see... I'll try to watch it then

[gajarkahalva]

I am Concerned About You Regarding Barzakh

Umar Ibn Yazid says that, “I asked Imam Ja’far as-Sadiq (a.s.), “I have heard you saying that all our Shia’s will enter Heaven however sinful they may be?” Imam replied,
“By Allah I had truly said, they shall all belong to Heaven.”
Then I asked, “May my life be sacrificed upon you, even if their sins are great and in large number?” Imam said,
“All of you (Shias) shall enter Paradise by the intercession of the Holy Prophet (S) or his successors on the Day of Judgement. But, by Allah I fear for you the Barzakh.”
I asked,”What is Barzakh?”
He replied,
“Barzakh is the grave. Its duration commences from the time of death until the Day of Judgement.”
(al-Kāfi)

taken from http://www.al-islam...._complete/5.htm

So to me this means that every one will have some form of punishment as long as they have sinned - which pretty much everyone has.

Edited by gajarkahalva, 31 July 2012 - 11:02 AM.

[tahiraansari]

The Prophet Mohammad a.s. said:
'I have never seen a scene more horrid than the grave".

(The Scale of Wisdom ~ Rayshahri, pg 890, #5130 and Tanbih al Khawtir, vol 1 pg 284)

Imam Ali a.s. said:
'O Servants of Allah! That which comes after death for those who have not been forgiven is worse than death itself and it is the grave.
So, be warned of its tightness, its hardship, its darkness and its loneliness... and the hard life that Allah has warned His enemies about is the punishhent of the grave.

(The Scale of Wisdom ~ Rayshahri, pg 89 #5137 and Amaali of Tusi, pg 28, #31)

There is another hadith that i have read a number o times but don't have the exact citation in front of me. But basically, one of the imams a.s. says that the Shia will be in Paradise, but he fears for them the grave

[sNiPe_]

tahiraansari, on 31 July 2012 - 05:47 PM, said:

There is another hadith that i have read a number o times but don't have the exact citation in front of me. But basically, one of the imams a.s. says that the Shia will be in Paradise, but he fears for them the grave

look right above your post. that exact hadith  was posted

[Mujtaba786]

gajarkahalva, on 31 July 2012 - 11:00 AM, said:

I am Concerned About You Regarding Barzakh

Umar Ibn Yazid says that, “I asked Imam Ja’far as-Sadiq (a.s.), “I have heard you saying that all our Shia’s will enter Heaven however sinful they may be?” Imam replied,
“By Allah I had truly said, they shall all belong to Heaven.”
Then I asked, “May my life be sacrificed upon you, even if their sins are great and in large number?” Imam said,
“All of you (Shias) shall enter Paradise by the intercession of the Holy Prophet (S) or his successors on the Day of Judgement. But, by Allah I fear for you the Barzakh.”
I asked,”What is Barzakh?”
He replied,
“Barzakh is the grave. Its duration commences from the time of death until the Day of Judgement.”
(al-Kāfi)

taken from http://www.al-islam...._complete/5.htm

So to me this means that every one will have some form of punishment as long as they have sinned - which pretty much everyone has.

That is so interesting !
You're interpretation is quite right. So what that basically means is that if you are a true Shi'ite then you may survive the depths of Hell even if you are a sinner. However, that worries me even more as Barzakh will be like hell for those who have countless sins. Inshallah we will be forgiven for most of our sins in this world.

tahiraansari, on 31 July 2012 - 05:47 PM, said:

The Prophet Mohammad a.s. said:
'I have never seen a scene more horrid than the grave".

(The Scale of Wisdom ~ Rayshahri, pg 890, #5130 and Tanbih al Khawtir, vol 1 pg 284)

Imam Ali a.s. said:
'O Servants of Allah! That which comes after death for those who have not been forgiven is worse than death itself and it is the grave.
So, be warned of its tightness, its hardship, its darkness and its loneliness... and the hard life that Allah has warned His enemies about is the punishhent of the grave.

(The Scale of Wisdom ~ Rayshahri, pg 89 #5137 and Amaali of Tusi, pg 28, #31)

There is another hadith that i have read a number o times but don't have the exact citation in front of me. But basically, one of the imams a.s. says that the Shia will be in Paradise, but he fears for them the grave

Makes the grave sound horrific... The description of the grave works as a motivation to stop ourselves from sinning. AND that's only the grave! Imagine what Hell is like
That hadith is stated in the Greater Sins book by Ayatollah Shirazi (which @ghajarkvala posted above you comment LOL )

Just saw your comment Snipe_

[yukapuka]

There is a hadeeth from Imam Ali in which he says that after a person dies Allah releases into his grave 72 snakes.

he said if one of these snakes where to escape and enter into the world, all of the greenery would disappear from Dunya.

But know that BArzakh is not just punishment, its also a test. God puts you in complete hardship and complete suffering, to the point that the test is to do alot with your faith
are you going to blame God? or lose hope in God?

Keep in mind that one of the greatest sins is to lose hope in God, because you are denying his greatest attribute which is the Ar Rahman and Ar Raheem

As if you believe that your sins are greater then God's mercy which is another form of Khufr

I know from experience in this world, when the pressure was raised to the highest point on my rictoscale, sometimes you lose faith in God and hope in God and you begin to ask why me? what have i done to deserve this and so on and so forth, and that is the worst consequence
the empty feeling you get after that is beyond any pain (physical/emotional) that can be experienced.

Remember Barzakh is not a place, but it is your state of mind and Heart. Its not that you enter it, but rather you become conscious of it, and if it is clustered with disbelief and sin, and the person becomes conscious of it, he then really feels the pain of it

And the pain of it can really be overwhelming, the empty feeling you can fall into in the Barzakh experience is really a lonely and helpless one.

And just keep in mind what is Barzakh, it is not about going through it, rather it is about you reaching perfection, for the soul which is nott perfect is not compatible with heaven except in the state of perfection. because Allah says in the Quran that In Heaven they will not hear lying or vain discourse, and other descriptions about Heaven and the people in it.

So if you have any traits which are evil or bad habits(i.e to get angry or to swear or to do any sin or bad thought, it is this which you must be purified from. ANd if you dont attain this perfection here, you will need to be purified from it there, and the purification after death is painful more then had it been done while in Dunya.

There is a famous sufi narration which says that it takes 500 years in Barzakh for a men to cut the ties with his bodies traits after death. So it is like living 5 lifes as here, but much more painful difficult, no support from friends, no help from comforts which we have in Dunya, no release from difficutlies, just hardship after hardship

Edited by yukapuka, 31 July 2012 - 08:01 PM.

[Mujtaba786]

yukapuka, on 31 July 2012 - 07:45 PM, said:

But know that BArzakh is not just punishment, its also a test. God puts you in complete hardship and complete suffering, to the point that the test is to do alot with your faith

A test? I understood that the test is in this world until the point at which we die and then there's no test after that. IMO the Barzakh is just a middle way between this life and the next but we aren't tested in Barzakh as it is the place for punishment for the sins we committed in this world.

yukapuka, on 31 July 2012 - 07:45 PM, said:

Remember Barzakh is not a place, but it is your state of mind and Heart. Its not that you enter it, but rather you become conscious of it, and if it is clustered with disbelief and sin, and the person becomes conscious of it, he then really feels the pain of it

Most of the research I've done says that Barzakh is actually a physical place (to my understanding that is) which is also backed up by Ayatollah Najafi's book "Journey of the unseen world."
Source: http://www.followisl...urney/index.htm

[Maitham]

Jazaka Allah for the link to ayatollah najafi's book

[Mujtaba786]

Maitham, on 01 August 2012 - 12:09 AM, said:

Jazaka Allah for the link to ayatollah najafi's book

Your welcome Alhamdulilah its a really good book. I remember being read the "kids" version when i was younger