Jump to content


- -

- - - - -

Ammar Nakshawani On Mutah

Lecture

17 replies to this topic

#1 Nima

Nima

    Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPip
  • 512 posts
  • Religion:ÔíÚÉ Úáí

Posted 29 July 2012 - 10:02 PM




I am a bit disappointed on his approach. Much of his time went to disprove the claim that comes from Sunnis etc.. I personally think he should talk some more about the practice and the rules.  And I am little surprised  that he is pretty one-sided  in terms of that muslim women must ask their fathers before they engage in mutah.







What do you guys think?

Edited by Nima, 29 July 2012 - 10:33 PM.


#2 ali12

ali12

    Member

  • Advanced Members
  • Pip
  • 91 posts
  • Location:AbuDhabi, UnitedArabEmirates

Posted 29 July 2012 - 10:14 PM

i even find this video more interesting sunni shiekhs approving of muta marriage and narrations revealed... however it's in arabic if someone can get this translated will be a very good idea..


Edited by ali12, 29 July 2012 - 10:15 PM.


#3 Maitham

Maitham

    'O day, arise! The atoms are dancing.

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,366 posts
  • Location:The other side
  • Religion:Islam (Imami)

Posted 29 July 2012 - 11:03 PM

I have not watched any of his from this month yet. but it seems he has a theme going to address sunni objections. so speaking about the sunni claim is in order for this theme.
Ãóááøٰåõãøó ÈöÓúãößó ÃóÍúÜíóÇ æó ÈöÓúãößó ÃóãõæÊõ
- Speak out against the oppressor just know that we are the first to oppress ourselves. -
All Praises to Allah - Blog

‎'O day, arise! The atoms are dancing.
Thanks to Him the universe is dancing.
The souls are dancing, overcome with ecstasy.
I'll whisper in your ear where their dance is taking them...
All the atoms in the air and in the desert Know well, they seem insane.
Every single atom, happy or miserable,
Becomes enamoured of the sun, of which nothing can be said'

#4 Haydar Husayn

Haydar Husayn

    Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,022 posts
  • Religion:Islam

Posted 29 July 2012 - 11:10 PM

A complete joke.
And they serve beside Allah what can neither harm them nor profit them, and they say: These are our intercessors with Allah. Say: Do you (presume to) inform Allah of what He knows not in the heavens and the earth? Glory be to Him, and supremely exalted is He above what they set up (with Him). [Qur'an 10:18, Shakir translation]

Now, surely, sincere obedience is due to Allah (alone) and (as for) those who take guardians besides Him, (saying), We do not serve them save that they may make us nearer to Allah, surely Allah will judge between them in that in which they differ; surely Allah does not guide him aright who is a liar, ungrateful. [Qur'an 39:3, Shakir translation]

#5 adnan121

adnan121

    Member

  • Advanced Members
  • Pip
  • 163 posts
  • Location:canada
  • Religion:muslim -shia

Posted 29 July 2012 - 11:16 PM

Of course the virgin Muslim women must ask their fathers before they engage in mutah.
Chapter 9 Verse 82 which says "Then let them laugh a little: they will weep much, as the reward of what they used to earn"

Say (O Muhammad): Allah is sufficient as a witness between me and you and "HE" who has knowledge of the Book.” (13:43)

Posted Image

#6 Al-Afasy

Al-Afasy

    S.Hassan and Haidar al Karrar.

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,741 posts
  • Religion:You don't want to know.
  • Interests:Showing Against Oneself who's boss.

Posted 30 July 2012 - 01:21 AM

View Postadnan121, on 29 July 2012 - 11:16 PM, said:

Of course the virgin Muslim women must ask their fathers before they engage in mutah.

Not if they follow this guy....

Posted Image

:wub:

Posted Image


ÑÍã Çááå ãä ÞÑÃ ÓæÑÉ ÇáÝÇÊÍÉ Úáì ÑæÍ ÂíÉ Çááå ÇáÓíÏ ãÍãÏ ÇáÍÓíäí ÇáÔíÑÇÒí


#7 Hoper

Hoper

    Member

  • Advanced Members
  • Pip
  • 153 posts
  • Location:Canada - Toronto
  • Religion:Islam-Shia

Posted 30 July 2012 - 03:01 AM

Salam Aleikum!

Until there is an emergence of an alim who is of Western or Asian non-Muslim background the issue of Mutah will always be treated through the prism of a conservative pre-Islamic customs masked as honor and so on. So I am not surprised at all, people work within their comfort zones and very few have the courage to break out of them especially if they are dependent on their community. Not everyone can be Ayatollah Khomeini (ra), Imam Musa Sadr or Aytollah Fadlallah (ra), when they started their work they were shunned by others and labeled as innovators, philosophers and Sunnis.

#8 titumir

titumir

    Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,546 posts
  • Religion:Islam

Posted 30 July 2012 - 04:02 AM

Welcome back KimK

#9 Guest_ahlulbayti_*

Guest_ahlulbayti_*
  • Guests

Posted 30 July 2012 - 04:10 AM

but i gotta say that sayed ammar is a very good lecturer?

#10 Goku

Goku

    abul gohan

  • Unregistered
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,724 posts
  • Location:California, USA
  • Religion:Islam - Shia
  • Interests:Sometimes I crawl under my bed, and pretend I'm a carrot.

Posted 30 July 2012 - 11:22 AM

in b 4 the lock!

Tumblr: www.lightoftheheavens.com


Donate this Holy Month!

(Note: ** means has proof of Ijaza From an Ayatullah)


#11 Labbayk

Labbayk

    Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPip
  • 488 posts
  • Location:UK
  • Religion:Rawaafid
  • Interests:Befriending the lovers of Ahlulbayt (as) & distancing myself from their enemies (la)

Posted 30 July 2012 - 11:33 AM

Brilliant, yes it is more orientated to answer the claims of the Sunnis.

Edited by Labbayk, 30 July 2012 - 11:34 AM.


#12 Ruq

Ruq

    ✲❀✿❁❈❉❂❃

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,015 posts
  • Religion:Twelver

Posted 30 July 2012 - 11:41 AM

Is this the one where he makes fun of E-scholars?

Posted Image


#13 Haydar Husayn

Haydar Husayn

    Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,022 posts
  • Religion:Islam

Posted 30 July 2012 - 02:17 PM

9:05 Then you look at verse number three of chapter four. Allah (swt) talks about marrying four wives, and how it originated because there were many widows in Arabian society. Many women had lost their husbands, and therefore they had no one to look after them,so the Qur'an sanctioned that you were  allowed to two, three, and four, in order to protect these Muslim widows.

And if you fear that you cannot act equitably towards orphans, then marry such women as seem good to you, two and three and four; but if you fear that you will not do justice (between them), then (marry) only one or what your right hands possess; this is more proper, that you may not deviate from the right course. [Qur'an 4:3,Shakir]

Not sure where he is getting his interpretation about widows from. I doubt it could be backed up from any major tafsir. Tafsir al-Mizan, which as a modern tafsir is more likely to be on the 'politically correct' side, does not support this interpretation either. It is also obvious from Islamic history that people weren't just taking widows as second, third, and fourth wives.


16:00 They narrate: "We were on an expedition with RasulAllah, and we had an overflow of our desires. So we said to Rasul Allah 'Ya Rasul Allah, are we allowed to castrate ourselves to please outselves?'" We don't need to mention other words on the mimbar.

Sahih Muslim, Book 8, Chapter3, Hadith 3243
Abdullah (b. Mas'ud) reported: We were on an expedition with Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) and we had no women with us.We said: Should we not have ourselves castrated? He (the Holy Prophet) forbade us to do so he then granted us permission that we should contract temporary marriage for a stipulated period giving her a garment, and 'Abdullah then recited this verse: 'Those who believe do not make unlawful the good things which Allah has made lawful for you, and do not transgress.Allah does not like trangressers" (al-Qur'an, v. 87).


Don't know where Nakshawani gets the idea that they were implying that they should castrate themselves in order to please themselves (I doubt castration would acheive that somehow). He seems to think they were making some reference to masturbation, but I don't see how.


He seems to contradict himself on where mut`a originated from:

12:35 The Qur'an speaks to the people according to their language, isn't it? According to their customs. Mut`a wasn't initiated by Rasul Allah. It was a marriage already present in the time of the Arabs.

17:25 Was there a doubt therefore in the books of our brothers, or indeed in our own books, that Rasul Allah initiated mut`a? No, there is no doubt whatsoever. There isn't a single Muslim on this earth. A single Muslim! Who doubts that mut`a was begun by Rasul Allah. Every single Muslim is of the belief that mut`a was originated by whom? Was originated by the Holy Prophet.

:wacko:


35:43 In Islam, if the girl has got a guardian, you've got to ask the guardian's permission, isn't it? [...] There's a law. A law where there is a guardian.

Not necessarily. As pointed out already, Sayyid Rohani, for example, says it's not necessary to ask for the permission of a rashida girl, based on ahadith such as:

6 – Muhammad b. al-Hasan by his isnad from Muhammad b. Ahmad b. Yahya from Musa b. `Umar b. Yazid from  Muhammad b. Sinan from Abu Sa`id.  He said: I asked Abu `Abdillah Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã about doing mut`a with the virgins who are still with their parents.  So he said: There is no harm, and I do not say as these scoundrels say.

8 – And from him from al-`Abbas b. Ma`ruf from Sa`dan b. Muslim from a man from Abu `Abdillah Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã.  He said: There is no harm with marrying the virgin when she consents without the permission of her parents.
http://www.tashayyu....muta/chapter-11


36:00 Ahlulbayt even go further to say what? Do not engage in mut`a with those women who are known for being women of zina.
36:35 Imam as-Sadiq says do not go with those women who are known of jumping from one partner to another. The women of zina. So someone asks him the question "How do i know who the woman of zina is?" Listen to the reply it is magnanimous [?, perhaps he meant magnificent?]: "The one who wouldn't care if you did mut`a with her or didn't."
37:50 Imam as-Sadiq didn't say that we are allowed mut`a so that we go with women that are known for zina. [...] Ahlulbayt said, a woman who is known for zina, where she moves from partner to partner, you don't do mut`a with someone like that.

This is a partial reading of the ahadith on this matter. While it is true that the Imams (as) showed dislike for marriages to these types of women, as you would expect, they did not forbid such marriages, which is why some marjas have allowed them:

3 – And by his isnad from al-Hasan b. Mahbub from Ishaq b. Jarir.  He said: I said to Abu `Abdillah Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã: Verily in Kufa there is a woman with us who is known for promiscuity.  Is it allowed to marry her in mut`a?  He said: So he said: Did she raise a standard?  I said: No, had she raised a standard the Sultan would have arrested her.  He said: Yes, marry her in mut`a.  He said: Then he listened to one of his slaves  (or, supporters, or, clients) and confided something to him.  So I met his slave and said to him: What did he say to you?  So he said: He only said to me: Even if she had raised a standard there would not be anything against the marriage. It only takes her out from a haram to a halal.

http://www.tashayyu..../muta/chapter-9

This basically allows mut`a with a prostitute.


38:20 In another hadith he said " Understand that if you are married, and you want to go and perform a temporary marriage with a kitabi who's not a Muslim, then if you haven't obtained your wife's permission on this, then you are liable to get whipped by the Islamic ruler of the time. Because what's happening today is this: "A follower of Ahlulbayt is married and is doing mut`a left, right, and centre with others. While he is married! [...] And your excuse is what? Your is excuse is "I am away so I have to move from partner to partner to partner."

There seem to be conflicting ahadith on whether a man can do mut`a with a kitabi while married to a Muslim, but in any case, the way he tries to use this to imply that a Muslim can't do mut`a with anyone while married is a bit dishonest. Regarding the situation where a man is away:

3 – Ahmad b. `Ali b. Abi Talib at-Tabrisi in al-Ihtijaj from Muhammad b. `Abdullah b. Ja`far al-Himyari, that he wrote to Sahib az-Zaman Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã asking him about the man who professes the truth and professes raj`a except that he has a family who agrees with him in all his affairs and he had promised her that he would not marry (another wife) upon her nor do mut`a nor journey by night.  And he has done this for nineteen years, and he has honored his saying.  So sometimes he is absent from his home for months and does not do mut`a and also does not move himself because of that.  And he regards halting from whomever is with him of brethren and children and slave boys and deputies and entourage from what diminishes him in assets, and he is loves the station he is upon out of love for his family and inclination to her and maintenance for her and for himself, not out forbiddance of mut`a, rather he professes to Allah by it.  So in the abandonment of that, is there a sin upon him or not?
The answer: It is preferable for him to obey Allah ÊÚÇáì by mut`a that there clear away from him the swearing in disobedience, even if one time.
http://www.tashayyu..../muta/chapter-3


From this point on, he goes on some politically correct rant about mut`a, that while I don't necessarily disagree with the essence of what he is saying (that it's not worth rocking the boat at home for the sake of doing mut`a unless there is some real need), I think is dishonest to attribute to the Imams (as). I don't know exactly how he would reconcile his view of mut`a (or the one he gives from the mimbar anyway), with ahadith such as:


13 – And by the isnad from Ahmad b. Muhammad from Ibn Ashyam from Marwan b. Muslim from Isma`il b. al-Fadl al-Hashimi.  He said: Abu `Abdillah Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã said to me: Have you done mut`a since you have gone out from your family?  I said: Due to the abundance of what is with me of wives, Allah has made me needless of it.  He said: And even if you are needless, for verily I love that you should revive the Sunna of the Messenger of Allah Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå.
http://www.tashayyu..../muta/chapter-2

1 – Muhammad b. Ya`qub from al-Husayn b. Muhammad from Ahmad b. Ishaq from Bakr b. Muhammad.  He said: I asked Abu ‘l-Hasan Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã about mut`a, is she from the four?  So he said: No.

3 – And from Muhammad b. Yahya from Ahmad b. Muhammad from Ibn Mahbub from Ibn Ri’ab from Zurara b. A`yan.  He said: I said: What is allowed from mut`a?  He said: However many you want.
http://www.tashayyu..../muta/chapter-4

45:30 That's why in our communities mut`a only becomes an issue when temporary marriage becomes difficult.
45:58 Rasul Allah would say let your sons and daughters marry at a young age so they don't have to go into that world of temporary relationships. Yet you find that our making marriage harder leads certain people towards that mut`a relationship.
Not sure where the clear teachings of the Imams (as) for men to do mut`a in order to revive the Sunnah of Rasul Allah (pbuh) comes into this.
1 – Muhammad b. `Ali b. a-Husayn by his isnad from Bakr b. Muhammad from Abu `Abdillah Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã.  He said: I asked him about mut`a.  So he said: Verily I dislike that the Muslim man should leave the world and there remains upon him a habit from the habits of the Messenger of Allah Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå which he has not carried out.

10 – Muhammad b. Muhammad b. an-Nu`man in Risalat al-Mut`a from Ja`far b. Muhammad b. Qulawayh from Sa`d b. `Abdullah from Ahmad b. Muhammad b. `Isa from Hisham b. Salim from Abu `Abdillah Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã. He said: It is recommended for the man to marry in mut`a, and I do not love that the man from you should leave the world until he marries in mut`a even once.

11 – And by the isnad from Ibn `Isa from Ibn al-Hajjaj from al-`Ala from Muhammad b. Muslim from Abu `Abdillah Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã. He said: He said to me: Have you done mut`a?  I said: No.  He said: Do not leave the world until you have revived the Sunna.

13 – And by the isnad from Ahmad b. Muhammad from Ibn Ashyam from Marwan b. Muslim from Isma`il b. al-Fadl al-Hashimi.  He said: Abu `Abdillah Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã said to me: Have you done mut`a since you have gone out from your family?  I said: Due to the abundance of what is with me of wives, Allah has made me needless of it.  He said: And even if you are needless, for verily I love that you should revive the Sunna of the Messenger of Allah Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå.
http://www.tashayyu..../muta/chapter-2

44:05 In the engagement period, don't straight away do nikah. There are many Arab communities, you will find straight away they do nikah, while the two are engaged. No, do a mut`a. The father is the guardian. He sets the conditions in the mut`a. How many months they are engaged. He sets. The dowry. He sets. And he also sets that the boy and the girl can only see each other for a limited time. He sets everything. [...] They do a nikah for the engagement. Allah says why don't you do a mut`a for the engagement [really?]. Mut`a. The guardian gives permission. The two can be together. But the guardian stipulates how long the two can be see each other while they are together. And what they can have with each other.
Strange comments. First of all, people who do nikah or mut`a are not engaged, they are married. Treating either as an engement is an insult to these institutions. However, of the two, it must be worse to treat nikah as an engagement. Maybe he should get around to criticising this practice a little more forcefully sometime.
As for the guardian setting all these conditions, where does that come from? The guardian is there to give his consent, not to dictate what a married couple can and can't do. The fact is it is the girl who decides what they can do together, not the guardian. If she chooses to allow something, then there isn't much he can do about it. Neither does he have any right to stop them seeing each other. I also don't know to what extent the woman can set conditions on what is allowed other than him not being able to consumate the marriage with her.

3 – Muhammad b. `Ali b. al-Husayn by his isnad from Ishaq b. `Ammar from Abu `Abdillah Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã.  He said: I said to him: A man who married a previously unmarried girl upon that he does not consummate with her, then she gives permission to him after that.  He said: When she has given permission to him then there is no harm.
http://www.tashayyu....muta/chapter-11

2432. If a woman with whom temporary marriage is contracted, makes a condition that her husband will not have sexual intercourse with her, the marriage as well as the condition imposed by her will be valid, and the husband can then derive only other pleasures from her. However, if she agrees to sexual intercourse later, her husband can have sexual intercourse with her, and this rule applies to permanent marriage as well.
http://www.sistani.o...&id=48&pid=2350

Needless to say that Nakshawani's presentation was very selective, and there were many elements he left out. His usage of Sunni sources would also no doubt be found to be a bit suspect if closely examined.
And they serve beside Allah what can neither harm them nor profit them, and they say: These are our intercessors with Allah. Say: Do you (presume to) inform Allah of what He knows not in the heavens and the earth? Glory be to Him, and supremely exalted is He above what they set up (with Him). [Qur'an 10:18, Shakir translation]

Now, surely, sincere obedience is due to Allah (alone) and (as for) those who take guardians besides Him, (saying), We do not serve them save that they may make us nearer to Allah, surely Allah will judge between them in that in which they differ; surely Allah does not guide him aright who is a liar, ungrateful. [Qur'an 39:3, Shakir translation]

#14 Abu Lulu

Abu Lulu

    Worried

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPip
  • 476 posts

Posted 30 July 2012 - 06:34 PM

they should let this man preach about mut'ah

he begins from 32nd sec.


#15 Guest_Jebreil_*

Guest_Jebreil_*
  • Guests

Posted 30 July 2012 - 06:58 PM

(bismillah)

(salam)

The reports presented by Haydar is correct. There are some reports which mellow the intensity (?) of the institution:


وعن سهل بن زياد، عن محمد بن الحسن بن شمون قال: كتب أبو الحسن - عليه السلام - إلى بعض مواليه: لا تلحوا في المتعة إنما عليكم إقامة السنة ولا تشتغلوا بها عن فرشكم وحلائلكم فيكفرن ويدعين على الامرين لكم بذلك ويلعنونا.



And from Sahl b. Ziyad from Muhammad b. al-Hasan b. Shamun.  He said: Abu ‘l-Hasan عليه السلام wrote to some of his mawali: Do not insist on mut`a, only the establishment of the Sunna is upon you.  And do not preoccupy (yourself) with it from your beds and wives, then they would do kufr and call upon the authorities to you by that, and they would curse us.



وعن علي بن يقطين، عن أبي الحسن - عليه السلام - في المتعة قال: وما أنت وذاك قد أغنى الله عنها، قلت: إنما أردت أن أعلمها قال: هي في كتاب علي - عليه السلام -.


And from `Ali b. Yaqtin from Abu ‘l-Hasan عليه السلام regarding mut`a.  He said: And what do you have to do with that when Allah has made you free of need from it.  I said: I only want to know it.  He said: It is in the book of `Ali عليه السلام.



I am not sure, but it seems unclear whether they (as) insisted on it because the ʿāmma had stifled the sunna or whether they mellowed it because the khāṣa were in danger? I think there is evidence for both.


(wasalam)

Edited by Jebreil, 30 July 2012 - 06:59 PM.


#16 Ali_Hussain

Ali_Hussain

    Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,210 posts

Posted 09 December 2012 - 08:58 AM

View PostAbu Lulu, on 30 July 2012 - 06:34 PM, said:

they should let this man preach about mut'ah

he begins from 32nd sec.


You can see the whole hour long lecture (for women apparently) here.



Seeing as lecturers would get crucified for this in the west, someone should translate it so that our sisters can get some much needed education.

Some nasibi has taken the trouble to translate parts of it:



Quote

"from every single drop of water Allah creates seventy angels that ask forgiveness for you until judgment day, and they curse whoever avoids it" so the angles curse whoever avoids having mut'a

Edited by Ali_Hussain, 09 December 2012 - 09:04 AM.

خُذِ الْعَفْوَ وَأْمُرْ‌ بِالْعُرْ‌فِ وَأَعْرِ‌ضْ عَنِ الْجَاهِلِي

Take to forgiveness and enjoin good and turn aside from the ignorant (7:199)

#17 safana

safana

    Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPip
  • 437 posts
  • Religion:Shia Muslim
  • Interests:shopping, eating chocolate, reading quran

Posted 29 December 2012 - 02:31 AM

i like sayyed Ammar's lectures ^_^

#18 ninjabidownthestreet

ninjabidownthestreet
  • Advanced Members
  • 31 posts
  • Religion:Muslim-shia

Posted 07 January 2013 - 09:42 PM

sayed ammar is an amazing speaker!



Reply to this topic



  



Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Lecture

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users