35 replies to this topic

[punjabishia]

Brained, on 09 August 2012 - 11:24 AM, said:

I fail to understand your problem. Who in the world is denying MQM's armed wing ? You talk as if there is no one else in Karachi with weapons. Well here's a surprise for you , there are several other armed groups fighting in Karachi ! That includes the Taliban, their offshoots, PSF, ANP, Peoples Aman Committee, Afghani criminals, Sipah-e Sahaba/ Lashkar-e-Jhangvi and the Punjabi-Pukhtoon Ittehad Party (PPI). They too are out there and they are hell bent on disrupting peace, no matter what the cost.

Also, because you talk of hanging so much, why not start with Lashkar-e-Jhangvi supporters in Punjab. PML-N has been implicitly supporting Maliq Ishaq(may he burn in hell) and his goons for a long time.

And you're the first Shia ever who supports the Taliban. That tells a lot about your intelligence - supporting your own sworn enemies.

http://www.telegraph...ia-Muslims.html
http://dawn.com/2011...nistan-attacks/
http://www.abna.ir/d...ang=3&Id=219439

But no, don't believe me, move to North Waziristan with your pals, since the Taliban are so "civilized".



Should have reported that earlier. Ethnic hate is NOT tolerated.

I have no ethnic hate. The MQM exiled other people from karachi by terrorism and Bhatta. Your singularly pointing at Pathans and Talibans is ethnic hate by that standard because I have met many pathans who are shia and like the shia, and are students (taliban).

The question is who S-T-A-R-T-E-D  ARMS and TARGETTED killings in karachi ? That is MQM !!!

In addition, I dont think ethnically. I will give testimony even if it be against me or secular shias in the MQM and favoring the Taliban who may not be shia - based P-U-R-E-L-Y  on TRUTH and MERIT.

This is because, my allegiance to Allah is above all other allegiances and should be.

We are Usoolis.

MQM terrorists who STARTED, the justice must START with them, and they should be treated like the RIGGIs in Iran ..................

[Brained]

Quote

The MQM exiled other people from karachi by terrorism and Bhatta. Your singularly pointing at Pathans and Talibans is ethnic hate by that standard because I have met many pathans who are shia and like the shia, and are students (taliban).

I did not singularly point at any ethnic group, I just criticized the parties that take act as stakeholders, just like the MQM.

And where did you get that from ? Karachi is a diverse city and to say no other groups can taste success in Karachi is ignorant to the point of stupidity. The reason you fail to notice other groups of successful people in Karachi is because you're an idiot. You have never been to Karachi, and even if you have, you haven't seen enough of it. Everybody who works hard succeeds over here. And you talked about memons, memons and khojas run some of the most successful businesses in Karachi and Aqeel Kareem Dedhi, a memon, is rumored to be the richest man in Karachi. Also these memons are ardent supporters of MQM and actively take part in Karachi's politics and Farooq Sattar, the Leader of MQM in the National Assembly is also a memon. You also refuse to acknowledge successful Pathan and Punjabi families that happily reside in Karachi. The biggest Bhatta mafia is the Peoples Aman Committee. Ofcourse you wouldn't know about them.

And students are called talibilm or tulbaa, not taliban. And the taliban you're talking about are universally known to be an ignorant bunch of mullahs, hell bent upon enforcing their own , twisted, version of Islam.


Get your history straight. Jamiat- talba organisation was the FIRST organisation to bring arms to Karachi. They terrorised students under Zia's patronage and recruited volunteers for the Afghan war. MQM's formation was a natural movement against official discrimination in the form of Quota system in place at educational institutes. Zia also encouraged Pathan- muhajir and muhajir-sindhi riots in an effort to break PPP's support in Karachi. Everybody knows this, and all learned Sindhis acknowledge this.


You, I say again, have no idea whatsoever about society in Karachi, and as such your comments and opinions represent nothing but a shameless attitude towards other's opinions.

[Mutah_King]

lol [Edited]

Edited by inshaAllah, 10 August 2012 - 11:43 AM.
Inappropriate language

[punjabishia]

Brained, on 09 August 2012 - 02:44 PM, said:

I did not singularly point at any ethnic group, I just criticized the parties that take act as stakeholders, just like the MQM.

And where did you get that from ? Karachi is a diverse city and to say no other groups can taste success in Karachi is ignorant to the point of stupidity. The reason you fail to notice other groups of successful people in Karachi is because you're an idiot. You have never been to Karachi, and even if you have, you haven't seen enough of it. Everybody who works hard succeeds over here. And you talked about memons, memons and khojas run some of the most successful businesses in Karachi and Aqeel Kareem Dedhi, a memon, is rumored to be the richest man in Karachi. Also these memons are ardent supporters of MQM and actively take part in Karachi's politics and Farooq Sattar, the Leader of MQM in the National Assembly is also a memon. You also refuse to acknowledge successful Pathan and Punjabi families that happily reside in Karachi. The biggest Bhatta mafia is the Peoples Aman Committee. Ofcourse you wouldn't know about them.

And students are called talibilm or tulbaa, not taliban. And the taliban you're talking about are universally known to be an ignorant bunch of mullahs, hell bent upon enforcing their own , twisted, version of Islam.


Get your history straight. Jamiat- talba organisation was the FIRST organisation to bring arms to Karachi. They terrorised students under Zia's patronage and recruited volunteers for the Afghan war. MQM's formation was a natural movement against official discrimination in the form of Quota system in place at educational institutes. Zia also encouraged Pathan- muhajir and muhajir-sindhi riots in an effort to break PPP's support in Karachi. Everybody knows this, and all learned Sindhis acknowledge this.


You, I say again, have no idea whatsoever about society in Karachi, and as such your comments and opinions represent nothing but a shameless attitude towards other's opinions.

But Zia was also a Muhajir, so put that blame in the ACCOUNT of MQM, not the Army.

Similarly, the spectacle on the arrival of CJ and PTI in Karachi done by Musharraf should be put in the CREDIT of MQM.

You are losing argument and abusing me with words such as "moron" and "idiot".

However, I think that Taliban are more polished and civilized than MQM Jiyala and SECULAR SHIA  S-a-y-e-d Faisal R-a-z-a Abdi (LA) - on loaner to Zardari (LA) also a secular shia.

just compare the two videos. (this is different and more complete than earlier one)



and

http://www.zemtv.com...th-august-2012/

In addition, the reaction of MQM against quota system was UNFAIR. The tax was paid by the farmers in punjab, sindh and poor people. The govt subsidized education was mostly monopolized by the most educated segment, namely urdu speakers, who would also due to proficiency in their mother tongue, exceed others in the compulsory subject of urdu and also as a result of urdu being the national language, benefit in all social, political situations due to ELOQUENCE in urdu at that time. Only recently, with the media, there is some equilibrium, but now, all education is virtually privatized.

Listen to how ELOQUENTLY Abdi gives Hindi MOVIE DIALOGUES - and turns black into white. CJ handed over his son to the ZARDARI-MQM run govt to investigate his crimes. Nothing can be fairer than this.

Still, the urdu speaker's mother tongue is benefitting from development. I am not going to abandon generosity and avoid calculating, but the urdu speakers abandoned it and

Recall the sura - whch says, when they give, they give incompletely, when they take, they take completely ... or something like that.

This is the reason for the whole mess - MQM started psychology of victimhood when the urdu speakers were actually beneficiaries as a community - and above all others.

Mutah_King, on 09 August 2012 - 02:59 PM, said:

lol punjabi shia is a douche, just ignore the moron.

just keep your word. dont use another account.

Look, my punjabi people did not impose punjabi language on anyone.

In addition, you people regularly call us "moron", "idiot" and Dhagga.

My appeal to secular shias (for whom MQM > Allah ) is just one.

Catch the MQM terrorists in karachi (since you are in the govt) like iran nabbed RIGGIs.
and
Stop the use of guns and terrorism in karachi.

Afterall, it is your city and power base - as you claim.

Edited by punjabishia, 09 August 2012 - 06:35 PM.

[inshaAllah]

Brained, I found this video today regarding the allegation of Bhatta on MQM. It's an explanation from Rizvi. He's basically explained that they get their fundings by having this rule within the party that all MQM kaarkun will pay 1% of their monthly income to the party so everyone pays it including him (Rs8,400) and thats how they fund their activities. And that they have laakhun kaarkuns around the world who pay them in dollars as well. As for allegations of forced bhatta, he says that people misuse MQM's name and he also gave an example of how they caught one of them. Can you have a look at this video and comment. Thankyou

youtube.com/watch?v=LqskT7Q6lQA

[Brained]

Haider Abbas Rizvi might be Shia, but he too is a politician. These bhatta allegations are not unfounded, you must meet people who give bhatta to understand's MQM's mechanism. What he said might be true, but this is not the only way they collect money. Fitra collected for Ramadan, and "donations" to their charity foundation are also a part of their mechanism. You will not probably find many Karachiites willing to talk about money that they give, but acquaintances who are traders or shop owners in Karachi are the primary source of information.
They say it's the MQM, not "others."
His argument should fall flat because of the fact that they virtually control the city. I can't go on demanding money without them knowing. If what he says is happening( i'm not denying it doesn't happen, it's just small-scale), than why has the MQM not been able to stop them, despite their power.
Other than petty crimes like mobile-snatching or thefts, one must know local leaders and politicians to engage in bigger activities in this city.

To understand Karachi, you must spend time here.

[punjabishia]

inshaAllah, on 10 August 2012 - 11:52 AM, said:

Brained, I found this video today regarding the allegation of Bhatta on MQM. It's an explanation from Rizvi. He's basically explained that they get their fundings by having this rule within the party that all MQM kaarkun will pay 1% of their monthly income to the party so everyone pays it including him (Rs8,400) and thats how they fund their activities. And that they have laakhun kaarkuns around the world who pay them in dollars as well. As for allegations of forced bhatta, he says that people misuse MQM's name and he also gave an example of how they caught one of them. Can you have a look at this video and comment. Thankyou

youtube.com/watch?v=LqskT7Q6lQA

Here is another video showing two shia politicians fighting



One is Abid Sher Ali (Abstainer from sins and submissive, Lion of Ali) from punjab and the other is S-a-y-e-d Haider Abbas Rizvi MQM.

Now, why is it that we dont see parsis talking like this or coming into dirty politics ?

Ardeshir Cowasjee (Parsi/Zoroastrian), who spent all his life defending and writing for the CIVIC issues and rights of the people. So that they can have a civil society, open spaces, congenial neighborhoods which promote pious thoughts, transcendental mindset etc.

Memons have entered, like Marvi and others, into the dirty game.

People should exit the dirty game of politics and elections should be on the non-party basis, based on the character of people so that NO permanent configurations of conspiracies and alliances of self-interest develop and element of randomness is inserted.

Brained, on 10 August 2012 - 01:23 PM, said:

Haider Abbas Rizvi might be Shia, but he too is a politician. These bhatta allegations are not unfounded, you must meet people who give bhatta to understand's MQM's mechanism. What he said might be true, but this is not the only way they collect money. Fitra collected for Ramadan, and "donations" to their charity foundation are also a part of their mechanism. You will not probably find many Karachiites willing to talk about money that they give, but acquaintances who are traders or shop owners in Karachi are the primary source of information.
They say it's the MQM, not "others."
His argument should fall flat because of the fact that they virtually control the city. I can't go on demanding money without them knowing. If what he says is happening( i'm not denying it doesn't happen, it's just small-scale), than why has the MQM not been able to stop them, despite their power.
Other than petty crimes like mobile-snatching or thefts, one must know local leaders and politicians to engage in bigger activities in this city.

To understand Karachi, you must spend time here.

I think, honest testimonies are important also. In addition, media shows much. We need analysts. I think my posts above have contributed a perspective that is often suppressed.

The fact is simple.

Power corrupts - and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Remove party basis where people have to speak lies to defend the party like a team.

Make the terms short.

Make transitions smooth, ie final 6 month pay of a politician should be withheld TILL he liasons with the next coming person and assists him in the job and learn the ropes.

This can only be done by a transitional government of the technocrats who are honest and have published clear policy papers to show their analytical capabilities before the drastic step is taken.

Edited by punjabishia, 10 August 2012 - 01:42 PM.

[Brained]

lol Abid Sher Ali a shia ? who told you that ? The guy is a Chaudhry from Faisalabad and a relative of Nawaz Sharif.

names don't matter. Ali Sher Haidri, despite his Shia-sounding name, was a leader of Sipah-e-Sahaba and a nasibi.

[inshaAllah]

Punjabishia, I don't understand your point of sharing that video. Bro try to be specific as I am a bit lost and not following you at all. I mean what does that video have to do with what I wrote in my previous post regarding allegations on MQM regarding 'bhatta'? thx

Brained, on 10 August 2012 - 01:23 PM, said:

Haider Abbas Rizvi might be Shia, but he too is a politician. These bhatta allegations are not unfounded, you must meet people who give bhatta to understand's MQM's mechanism. What he said might be true, but this is not the only way they collect money. Fitra collected for Ramadan, and "donations" to their charity foundation are also a part of their mechanism. You will not probably find many Karachiites willing to talk about money that they give, but acquaintances who are traders or shop owners in Karachi are the primary source of information.
They say it's the MQM, not "others."
His argument should fall flat because of the fact that they virtually control the city. I can't go on demanding money without them knowing. If what he says is happening( i'm not denying it doesn't happen, it's just small-scale), than why has the MQM not been able to stop them, despite their power.
Other than petty crimes like mobile-snatching or thefts, one must know local leaders and politicians to engage in bigger activities in this city.

To understand Karachi, you must spend time here.

Nah, I have no interest in him or the party because of Rizvi being a shia. But in our discussion so far, I found 'bhatta' and 'dadagiri' of some sort to be the two main issues and popular perceptions about MQM in Pakistan. So I am trying to collect relevant data which has weight to it. Naturally I had to start with MQM's position regarding such allegations and quite honestly, I found Rizvi's explanation satisfactory. I mean it's better than what I normally hear from friends who hear it from somewhere else who have most likely heard it from elsewhere and when I ask for some sort of evidence or a logical explanation, the best response is that "where there is smoke, there is fire". Regarding the testimony of the traders of the Karachi and your explanation that one has to spend time in that city to understand it, fair enough. However, considering the vibrant and independant media we have now (who happen to bust everyone these days), and that there are other parties (opposition) in the city to support the victims of MQM, doesn't it make sense for all of them to take the matter to the courts? Cz it's hard for me to believe that the entire city is hostage to MQM. Is it?

[Brained]

You can't say the whole city is hostage to the MQM, but almost all important areas and those that form the heart of the city are under MQM's control, and only its members get elected from these localities.

Other parties do not support the traders, primarily because, they themselves engage in these activities. ANP, in localities of Orangi Town, PPP, in Lyari and Korangi and PSF, in Sohrab, Pehelvan and Memon Gothes. They do not enter "turfs" that other parties control and want to do nothing with people who don't vote for them. If other groups do interfere, the result is a turf war.

And courts do not matter here. Cases have dragged on for 20+ years without a result, hearings are not attended and the prosecution system is a mess. Nobody wants to do anything with the courts, even the chief justice had to take suo moto action over the deteriorating situation last year, since nobody was willing to approach the Highest Court with a petition.

Nobody actually names the parties on media, they just say "sab jaantey hain kon kar raha hai". Even the president of Karachi Chamber of Commerce and Industry, Abrar Ahmad, refused to name them and gave the same reply.

I must add here that MQM has been involved in this business for along time and traders usually give money without thinking twice. The current wave of bhatta related violence came to light after PAC started asking for bhatta in MQM's territories.

[punjabishia]

Brained, on 11 August 2012 - 11:14 AM, said:

You can't say the whole city is hostage to the MQM, but almost all important areas and those that form the heart of the city are under MQM's control, and only its members get elected from these localities.

One who murders one person has murdered the whole of humanity. (Holy Quran)

Persecution is worse than murder. (Holy Quran)

Making a city hostage is like persecution of the people.

In addition, you are trying to CARVE exception in my argument. Yes, they dont have the whole city but most of the city and they are the INITIATORS of this practice. Like every INITIATOR of a crime, they will earn the SIN of all the subsequent reactions. Just like Cain earns for all the murders.

My question to all of you who reply to me is to ask

If your loyalty to Allah is above your ethnic or sectarian loyalty ?

and to consider starting your reply to me from the PRINCIPLES of ISLAM, Quran, Sunna, Hadith, and NOT political principles.

This is a religious forum, not political, and political must be from the ANGLE of religion.


MQM sympathisers or apologizers, have to give the credit to the Taliban who ELIMINATED narcotics from the whole of Afghanistan UNLIKE your MQM which has UTTERLY failed to eliminate Bhatta and TARGETTED murders from Karachi. I urge you to Watch this video once more to refresh your memory.



The secular shias in MQM and PPP and all over pakistan and also in many mosques, talk the talk of of Husein but do the deeds of YAZID such as targetted killings ... bateiN Husein ki aur kaam yazid kay.

The sentence above, is NOT my sentence, but that of Mushahidullah Khan, just this Yaum-e-Azadi of our Kishwar-e-Haseen Shadbad.


ANOTHER HULEGU KHAN COMING FOR THE MUSLIM WORLD, ie Pakistan, Iran, Egypt, and Syria.
video
http://www.zemtv.com...th-august-2012/

Edited by punjabishia, 14 August 2012 - 09:47 PM.