33 replies to this topic

[Kaniz e Zahra]

Nader Zaveri, on 27 July 2012 - 08:15 PM, said:

I have found the saying of al-`Abbaas' feet dragging on the ground. This is not in any Shee`ah book, it is in a book by a Zaydi scholar Abu al-Faraj al-Isfahani's (d. 356) Maqaatil al-Taalibeen, pg. 56, (chapter on al-`Abbaas b. `Alee b. Abee Taalib). Abu al-Faraj uses purely Sunni chains in this book.

Well, in the section where he mentions the feet dragging, there is no chain, except that he mentions a companion of al-Baaqir and al-Saadiq . His name is al-Kumayt b. Zayd. He has said this after narrating a poem about him.

وكان العباس رجلا وسيما جميلا يركب الفرس المطهم ورجلاه تخطان في الأرض وكان يقال له . قمر بني هاشم . وكان لواء الحسين بن علي " ع " معه يوم قتل
"And al-`Abbas was a handsome and beautiful man, he would mount the beautiful horse and his feet would exceed (dragging) on the earth. And he was called: 'Qamr Bani Haashim. And he was the flag bearer of al-Hussayn b. `Alee with him on the Day of the Murder"
Source:
Abu al-Faraj al-Isfahani, Maqaatil al-Taalibeen, pg. 56

It is impossible to say that al-Kumayt b. Zayd al-Asadi knew how al-`Abbaas b. `Alee b. Abee Taalib looked like. According to Mu`jam al-Shu`araa', al-Kumayt b. Zayd was born in the year 60 and died in the year 126. So he lived from 60-126. Also, al-Dhahabi has said that he has died between the years 121-130 in hisTaareekh al-Islaam. al-Khoei says in his Mu`jam Rijaal al-Hadeeth, that he died during the life of Imaam al-Saadiq .

So how is al-Kumayt saying how al-`Abbaas looks, when he was only a 1 year old when Karbala' happened. Also, there is a gap between Abu al-Faraj al-Isfahani (d. 356) and al-Kumayt b. Ziyaad (b. 60 - d. 126).

Might be Kumayt bin Zayd heard it from his father,or someone.There can be a possibility,if it was untrue,why did n't Imams(as) of the time object on his description.They must knew more about their Great Uncle's appearance.

[A true Sunni]

Kaniz e Zahra, on 28 July 2012 - 05:57 AM, said:

Might be Kumayt bin Zayd heard it from his father,or someone.There can be a possibility,if it was untrue,why did n't Imams(as) of the time object on his description.They must knew more about their Great Uncle's appearance.

I suspect that is again a problem of a translational error. It is quite likely that people used metaphors to describe a situation . 1400 years ago people understood the metaphor but now people take it in a literal sense.

might have been a general metaphor to describe tall people ie. 'that man is so tall his feet touch the ground when he rides a horse' . Everyone knows that a man isnt going to be 10' foot tall but they get the idea of a very tall person

[Haydar Husayn]

I'd like to point out to those making reference to the fact that I used Wikipedia that it was only in order to give an idea of how tall an Arabian horse is, and how little the breed has changed over the centuries. Unless someone actually has a reason for doubting that he information provided is accurate, then they are just making themselves look stupid by making an issue out of this.

[awaiting_for_the.12th]

Haydar Husayn, on 28 July 2012 - 03:24 AM, said:

Where do you get the idea that people were so tall just 1400 years ago? There is no evidence of this whatsoever, and all the evidence we do have in the form of skeletons from the era, etc, point to people being slightly shorter than they are now. Did you even bother to look at that research paper I posted?

You are correct! I didn't read the paper you posted, but i read other stuff that confirms what you stated about the average height back in days.
I believed Natural Selection would have dictated tall heights but i guess not.

[Nader Zaveri]

Kaniz e Zahra, on 28 July 2012 - 05:57 AM, said:

Might be Kumayt bin Zayd heard it from his father,or someone.There can be a possibility,if it was untrue,why did n't Imams(as) of the time object on his description.They must knew more about their Great Uncle's appearance.

I am a little iffy on if it was al-Kumayt b. Zayd narrating this or just Abu al-Faraj al-Isfahani talking. I opted for it being former because it was right after his poem, but it could very well be the latter. Either way it comes out to being VERY weak.

There is no information how al-Kumayt got this information, when it comes to hadeeth you cannot hang your hat on "maybes". Another possibility is that someone fabricated it under al-Kumayt's name, as he is known to be one of the foremost poets of the Shee`ahs.

If it happens to be from al-Kumayt, him being a poet, would raise the likelihood of it being a metaphorical, instead of literal. I find it odd that we, Shee`ahs, always go after the Salafis/Wahhabis for being so literal.

[Vigilare]

I keep seeing in these threads, the term 'shia wahabbi'...I wonder why questioning something makes someone a wahabbi, given that wahabbis are the least likely to ask quesitons about what they follow (!)

Incidentally, Wahabbis are also the first to label other sunnis who question sunni beliefs and 'accepted facts' a term very close to people here; shia!

on topic, I can't believe people are discussing whether Hadhrat Abbas was 10 feet tall or not.

[siraatoaliyinhaqqun]

^^^ its not a good thing to call names for momineen. Ghali was versus muqassir but now wahabi or nasibi is taking roots. All of this is not in order. I think people should stop arguing so much atleast this month.

[Vigilare]

siraatoaliyinhaqqun, on 09 August 2012 - 07:38 PM, said:

^^^ its not a good thing to call names for momineen. Ghali was versus muqassir but now wahabi or nasibi is taking roots. All of this is not in order. I think people should stop arguing so much atleast this month.

Exactly, calling someone a wahabi etc because they have a different opinion is not right, and Haydar gets his fair share of that - for some odd reason (!)

[Against oneself]

Kismet110, on 27 July 2012 - 10:25 AM, said:

Then explain these to us:

loooool. you really made a fool of yourself.

siraatoaliyinhaqqun, on 09 August 2012 - 07:38 PM, said:

^^^ its not a good thing to call names for momineen. Ghali was versus muqassir but now wahabi or nasibi is taking roots. All of this is not in order. I think people should stop arguing so much atleast this month.

this i agree with! we have different opinions but we are not really muqassirs and ghalis. you are not a ghali and i am not a muqassir. ali_hussein is not a muqassir and kaniz e zahra is not a ghali. we all love ahlulbayt and thats good. as long as we dont curse and lie about each toher then lets live in peace.