367 replies to this topic

[A true Sunni]

yamolaAlimadad, on 06 August 2012 - 06:13 PM, said:

shame on you, I dont understand why u sunnis have so much enmity towards Imam Ali(s). dont forget Muhammed have repeatedly mentioned, Muhammed(s) and Ali(s) are created from same noor, so if u are insulting Ali u are insulting Muhammed(s) as well.

Shame on you for being dumb. Have you bothered to read this thread at all !!!. I am being sarcastic and quoting him. You guys who read the last post and rush in like some crusading evangelist annoy the hell out of me.

At least the OP is true to himself he is a Nasibi and Munafiq. What excuse have you got for not bothering to read or understand what is being said.

No wonder the OP posted this thread he was obviously looking to bait people like you

Edited by A true Sunni, 06 August 2012 - 06:55 PM.

[Truth1234]

A true Sunni, on 06 August 2012 - 06:50 PM, said:

At least the OP is true to himself he is a Nasibi and Munafiq.

Your shaytan won't benefit you on the day that Allah asks you about these words of yours. In fact, I don't think that they are from your shaytan. I think that you yourself are a shaytan. Don't you dare talk in the name of Islam or mention Ali (RAA)! Islam is far from the religion that you practice and Ali (RAA) has nothing to do with you and you have nothing to do with him!

[A true Sunni]

Truth1234, on 06 August 2012 - 06:13 PM, said:

Why don't you show here where I mentioned handsome or not handsome. You think that a person who is bald can't be handsome. Not me. You think that a person dark-skinned can't be handsome. Not me. You think that a person having a large belly can't be handsome. Not me. I can show you many pictures of bald, dark-skinned, and heavy-set people who are handsome. Your thinking is diseased. Don't blame me for that.

I told you stop trying to bait me. Been there, seen it, done it. But I have always respected the sanctity of the Ahlul Bait. I see you still dont stop these Nasibi Munafiq posts even after being exposed. I see you again harp on about dark skin. I have never had an issue with dark skin . The only person who has truly had an issue with dark skin is you  otherwise why mention it at every opportunity.

You too may yet receive salvation  if you repent of your ways. Not only are you a Munafiq you are an ignorant Munafiq who carries on even after he has been exposed.

It is either to fool himself, fool others, or claim ignorance on the day of Judgement. Fortunately for all of us Allah will see straight through to your Munafiq heart .

[Truth1234]

A true Sunni, on 06 August 2012 - 07:53 PM, said:

I told you stop trying to bait me. Been there, seen it, done it. But I have always respected the sanctity of the Ahlul Bait. I see you still dont stop these Nasibi Munafiq posts even after being exposed. I see you again harp on about dark skin. I have never had an issue with dark skin . The only person who has truly had an issue with dark skin is you  otherwise why mention it at every opportunity.

You too may yet receive salvation  if you repent of your ways. Not only are you a Munafiq you are an ignorant Munafiq who carries on even after he has been exposed.

It is either to fool himself, fool others, or claim ignorance on the day of Judgement. Fortunately for all of us Allah will see straight through to your Munafiq heart .

Go and find an ignorant shaytaan like yourself to debate. I don't hold debates or discussions with the likes of you. I have nothing further to say to you.

[A true Sunni]

Truth1234, on 06 August 2012 - 10:42 PM, said:

Go and find an ignorant shaytaan like yourself to debate. I don't hold debates or discussions with the likes of you. I have nothing further to say to you.

Last resort of people who been exposed. Runaway, your words expose you everytime you post a reply. I see even your so called 'Shia sidekick' (if he ever was Shia) has deserted you

Edited by A true Sunni, 07 August 2012 - 04:15 AM.

[Sapphire]

Allah(SWT) please help all muslims to get rid of all the hatred we have in our hearts for each other. Unite us. And make the muslims rule the world. Ameen.

[Truth1234]

A true Sunni, on 07 August 2012 - 04:13 AM, said:

Last resort of people who been exposed. Runaway, your words expose you everytime you post a reply. I see even your so called 'Shia sidekick' (if he ever was Shia) has deserted you

Didn't I tell you that I don't debate the likes of you?  Why are you still here? Shoo!

[geek]

Meanwhile the 'Kafirs' have landed 'curiosity' rover on the planet mars. while you guys figure the race and skin color of the Holy Imams and Prophets. Good luck.

[A true Sunni]

Truth1234, on 07 August 2012 - 04:29 AM, said:

Didn't I tell you that I don't debate the likes of you?  Why are you still here? Shoo!

LOL you do make me laugh. When you lose a debate a your munafiq nature exposed you suddenly find you dont like debating with me but keep replying. Me thinks you feeling vulnerable. Where is your sidekick has he realised you are a munafiq as well or was his just a 'created profile'

Your sister in faith, on 07 August 2012 - 04:27 AM, said:

Allah(SWT) please help all muslims to get rid of all the hatred we have in our hearts for each other. Unite us. And make the muslims rule the world. Ameen.

Allah (SWT please help all muslims to get rid of all the hatred we have in our hearts (perceived and not) for the Ahlul Bait . Unite us and make the muslims submit to the will of Allah. Ameen

Truth1234
The sad thing is that you are so steeped in the lore of the Nasibis who push you towards attacking and vilifying fellow muslims that you forget to respect the sanctity of the Ahlul Bait . So eager are you to score points and prove yourself a man.

What were you planning to do raise a hue and cry and then post a link on a Nasibi Wahhabi forum saying look what a clever boy I am . Look I exposed the rascist Iranian. Look I exposed the rascist IndoPaks. What were you planning to end on a fanfare of look thats why there are so few black shias. They all rascist.

Creating fitna for the sake of fitna. Truly you are credit to your wahhabi masters

Edited by A true Sunni, 07 August 2012 - 08:58 AM.

[Mo.]

A true Sunni:

Regarding the dna of Jews, I read about genetic studies which concluded that the Jewish people have almost identical haplogroup types to the native populations of the levant, such as the Lebanese people, Jordanians, Syrians, etc.

So actually, the Jews didnt mix with Europeans as much as you like to believe. Theyre pretty much native mediterranean people, which explains their identical haplogroup types matching that of the other levantine populations. Which might also explain similar appearances between them.

And yes, mediterranean people tend to be white. Biodiversity dictates that. Theres no reason for a mediterranean to be darkskinned. Dark skin has to do with your position relative to the equator.

As for Arabs, they were never darker before. Genetic studies also prove that. Arabs are and were overwhelmingly light skinned. The dark skinned ones are byproducts of interracial marriages between Arab men/women and African men/women. Or theyre also dark skinned because they were Arabized.

You dont sound like you live in the middle east.

===

geek, on 07 August 2012 - 05:35 AM, said:

Meanwhile the 'Kafirs' have landed 'curiosity' rover on the planet mars. while you guys figure the race and skin color of the Holy Imams and Prophets. Good luck.

Well theres a pretty simple explanation for that. We religious people belong to the old age. The new age is all about godlessness and evolutionary science. The future will see colonizations and terraformations of other planets while we end up in history books and go down in history for debating the skin color of a man who lived over a thousand years ago.

Lets make the most of it.

[A true Sunni]

Mo., on 07 August 2012 - 08:55 AM, said:

A true Sunni:

Regarding the dna of Jews, I read about genetic studies which concluded that the Jewish people have almost identical haplogroup types to the native populations of the levant, such as the Lebanese people, Jordanians, Syrians, etc.

So actually, the Jews didnt mix with Europeans as much as you like to believe. Theyre pretty much native mediterranean people, which explains their identical haplogroup types matching that of the other levantine populations. Which might also explain similar appearances between them.

And yes, mediterranean people tend to be white. Biodiversity dictates that. Theres no reason for a mediterranean to be darkskinned. Dark skin has to do with your position relative to the equator.

As for Arabs, they were never darker before. Genetic studies also prove that. Arabs are and were overwhelmingly light skinned. The dark skinned ones are byproducts of interracial marriages between Arab men/women and African men/women. Or theyre also dark skinned because they were Arabized.

You dont sound like you live in the middle east.

===

I think reading any study looking at Jewish DNA is problematical to start with. Jews have a vested interest in proving that they originated in the middle east and did not mix with Europeans.

Secondly the falasha jews a black semitic race raises all sorts of interesting possibilities so I take most studies discussing one argument or the other with a pinch of salt.

i am not arguing for or against a black or a white Arab. What I am saying is that our views and stance is dictated by our own innate desire to paint our prophets/Imams in our own colour.

If u white u perceive Jesus to blonde hair and blue eyed. If u a white Arab you imagine Prophet Mohammed (pbuhahp) as being white.

If you dark Arab you wish him to be more like you.

If you Iranian your pictures have Iranian/Arab features

[Mo.]

I dont think its problematic. When it comes to science, Jews are more sincere and honest about things than Arabs or Muslims for that matter by a million light years.  Arabs cant even acknowledge that most muslim scientists in the golden age werent Arabs much less be trusted. But thats for another time...

Im sure the finest universities around the world do not want to destroy their reputation by making false studies and concluding false information.

I dont know whats so bad about the original semitic people being lightskinned and I dont know whats so wrong about Jews being originally lightskinned in specific. Afterall these are native mediterranean peoples. The biodiversity dictates these things. Science institutes all over the world, research institutes associated to the finest universities, which im sure everyone of us wished to be enrolled in at some point in our lives, are the ones making these conclusions.

[Gypsy]

A true Sunni, on 07 August 2012 - 09:32 AM, said:

i am not arguing for or against a black or a white Arab. What I am saying is that our views and stance is dictated by our own innate desire to paint our prophets/Imams in our own colour.

If u white u perceive Jesus to blonde hair and blue eyed. If u a white Arab you imagine Prophet Mohammed (pbuhahp) as being white.

If you dark Arab you wish him to be more like you.

If you Iranian your pictures have Iranian/Arab features

Nowadays, when you say Arabs, it includes the dark skinned people from Sudan, slightly brown skinned Egyptian and white skin, green/blue eyes Berber race from Tunisia/Algeria. Back in the old days, before these territory were conquered, Arabs were not as diverse as you see them now.

The Arabs as we know them back then were NOT as black as African or as white skinned Caucasian. Depending on how you look at them they could either be slightly darker (from white skin) or slightly lighter (from the blacks).


You are right that people likes to see the Prophet or Imams as they sees themselves. And that's because racism was/is huge in the middle east. White skin was highly favorable, darker skin not so much.

Edited by Gypsy, 07 August 2012 - 10:11 AM.

[A true Sunni]

Gypsy, on 07 August 2012 - 09:56 AM, said:

You are right that people likes to see the Prophet or Imams as they sees themselves. And that's because racism was/is huge in the middle east. White skin was highly favorable, darker skin not so much.

and thats why i urge caution when people put up pics of this latest crop of Saudi princes as examples of Arabs. Equally since rascism is/was rife in the Middle East I can also see why Ummayad rulers might want to paint Hz Ali as short fat bald hairy and black.

However history revisionists in the hope of being more politically correct like to paint everyone black. As you pointed out the truth was somewhere in between

Mo., on 07 August 2012 - 09:38 AM, said:

I dont think its problematic. When it comes to science, Jews are more sincere and honest about things than Arabs or Muslims for that matter by a million light years.  Arabs cant even acknowledge that most muslim scientists in the golden age werent Arabs much less be trusted. But thats for another time...

Im sure the finest universities around the world do not want to destroy their reputation by making false studies and concluding false information.

I dont know whats so bad about the original semitic people being lightskinned and I dont know whats so wrong about Jews being originally lightskinned in specific. Afterall these are native mediterranean peoples. The biodiversity dictates these things. Science institutes all over the world, research institutes associated to the finest universities, which im sure everyone of us wished to be enrolled in at some point in our lives, are the ones making these conclusions.

was thinking of writing a sarcastic repost but decided against it. I cannot believe a person as well eduated and well read truly believe what you just wrote. But in case you do. No probs its a free world. You are free to believe what ever you wish

BTW Mo. can you just clarify. Are you Muslim ?. I seem to recall there used to be a Mo. on Shiachat a few years ago that wasnt muslim

Edited by A true Sunni, 07 August 2012 - 12:27 PM.

[Truth1234]

Mo., on 07 August 2012 - 08:55 AM, said:

As for Arabs, they were never darker before. Genetic studies also prove that. Arabs are and were overwhelmingly light skinned. The dark skinned ones are byproducts of interracial marriages between Arab men/women and African men/women. Or theyre also dark skinned because they were Arabized.

I've proven that what you said here is incorrect.  Where is your proof that what you say is correct?  If you don't remember what I said, look at post #296 again here:  http://www.shiachat....d/page__st__275

Quote

Regarding the dna of Jews, I read about genetic studies which concluded that the Jewish people have almost identical haplogroup types to the native populations of the levant, such as the Lebanese people, Jordanians, Syrians, etc.

So actually, the Jews didnt mix with Europeans as much as you like to believe. Theyre pretty much native mediterranean people, which explains their identical haplogroup types matching that of the other levantine populations. Which might also explain similar appearances between them.

Have you ever thought that maybe it's because those people you are calling native populations of the Levant are in reality people of European origin like the Jews who claim that they are Hebrews?

[A true Sunni]

Truth1234, on 07 August 2012 - 03:36 PM, said:

I've proven that what you said here is incorrect.  Where is your proof that what you say is correct?  If you don't remember what I said, look at post #296 again here:  http://www.shiachat....d/page__st__275

I think people are by and large ignoring you and your 'proof' because of your habit of baiting and causing fitna.

I am a little different in as such I dont want you to be creating a link to some Wahhabi site trying to show what a clever boy you think you are.

It must annoy you that you have failed so conclusively to prove anything except you are a Munafiq

[Truth1234]

A true Sunni, on 07 August 2012 - 04:54 PM, said:

I think people are by and large ignoring you and your 'proof' because of your habit of baiting and causing fitna.

I am a little different in as such I dont want you to be creating a link to some Wahhabi site trying to show what a clever boy you think you are.

It must annoy you that you have failed so conclusively to prove anything except you are a Munafiq

Didn't I tell you that I have nothing further to say to you? Shoo!!!  When you learn a little bit about Islam and learn to take the words of Allah seriously and fear Him, you can talk to me. Until then, shoo! Allah said:





O you who have believed, let not a people ridicule [another] people; perhaps they may be better than them; nor let women ridicule [other] women; perhaps they may be better than them. And do not insult one another and do not call each other by [offensive] nicknames. Wretched is the name of disobedience after [one's] faith. And whoever does not repent - then it is those who are the wrongdoers.

'Ikrama was asked the meaning of "and do not call each other by [offensive] nicknames" and he said:

åæ Þæá ÇáÑÌá ááÑÌá : íÇ ãäÇÝÞ ¡ íÇ ßÇÝÑ

"It is a man saying to another man: 'Oh munafiq, Oh kaafir.'"

When you learn some manners concerning MY prophet Mohamed (SAWS) and obey his words and obey what he commands and what he forbids, you can talk to me. My Prophet (SAWS) said:


ãóäú Ñóãóì ãõÄúãöäðÇ ÈößõÝúÑò Ýóåõæó ßóÞóÊúáöåö

"Whoever calls a believer an unbeliever, it's like murdering him."

MY Prophet (SAWS) also said:

Ñæí Çä ÑÓæá Çááå Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÓáã ÞÇá: ÅÐÇ ÞÇá ÇáÑÌá áÕÇÍÈå "íÇ ßÇÝÑ" ÝÅäåÇ ÊÌÈ Úáì ÃÍÏåãÇ. ÝÅä ßÇä ÇáÐí Þíá áå ßÇÝÑ Ýåæ ßÇÝÑ. æÅáÇ ÑÌÚ Åáíå ãÇ ÞÇá.

It is narrated that the Prophet (SAWS) said: When man calls his companion ‘O you Kaafir’, then this would necessarily stick to one of the two. If the man who was called a kaafir is actually one, then he would be a kaafir; otherwise whatever the caller said would return upon him.

Despite knowing what Allah and His Prophet (SAWS) have said, you have totally disregarded their words and have put yourself before Allah and His Prophet (SAWS)! When you repent and learn to not put yourself before Allah and His Prophet (SAWS), you can talk to me. Allah says:

O you who have believed, do not put [yourselves] before Allah and His Messenger but fear Allah . Indeed, Allah is Hearing and Knowing.

When you learn some manners, you can talk to me. Until then, shoo!

[sNiPe_]

for someone who claims to have nothing further to say, you sure do have a lot to say.

[Queen Yoda]

I cant believe this thread is still going.

[A true Sunni]

Truth1234, on 07 August 2012 - 06:28 PM, said:

Didn't I tell you that I have nothing further to say to you? Shoo!!!  When you learn a little bit about Islam and learn to take the words of Allah seriously and fear Him, you can talk to me. Until then, shoo! Allah said:


When you learn some manners, you can talk to me. Until then, shoo!

I tell you to 'runaway' and you reply with shoo. I should point out that your 'shoo' message looses its intended impact if said second because its lost its originality.

If identify Munafiqs was good enough for the Holy Prophet and Sahaba it is good enough for me. Even the method of identifying munafiqs is so relevant here. Animosity towards Hz Ali

Amazing how some modern Sunnis (Wahhabis) seem to feel that they have to prove they ultra puritanical, ultra rigid. All this by showing their antipathy to Hz Ali . So closely has love for Hz Ali become synomonous with being Shia. So you express hidden hatred for Hz Ali to prove you have no Shia leanings.

Why do I need to show any manners towards Munafiqs pray tell.

[eThErEaL]

Perhaps these characteristics were not "undesirable" among the Arabs of that time.  We can't use our modern standard of judgement of physical beauty for the past.  Also, it would seem that back then the Arabs considered physical beauty insignificant in comparison to courage, strength, nobility, and virtue.  They probably were not petty like us living in the modern world of consumerism.

[A true Sunni]

eThErEaL, on 11 August 2012 - 05:44 AM, said:

Perhaps these characteristics were not "undesirable" among the Arabs of that time.  We can't use our modern standard of judgement of physical beauty for the past.  Also, it would seem that back then the Arabs considered physical beauty insignificant in comparison to courage, strength, nobility, and virtue.  They probably were not petty like us living in the modern world of consumerism.

and yet Hz Uthman is described as handsome .

Actually you may recall the story of the marriage of Zayd bin Harith. From what I recall of of the story. One of the complaints his wife had about him was that he was dark in colour.

His wife Zainab bint Jaysh was the  cousin of the Holy Prophet (pbuhahp). If she to was black and Prophet Mohammed (pbuhahp) was black why would she complain that her husband was of dark complexion

Edited by A true Sunni, 12 August 2012 - 12:46 PM.

[Truth1234]

eThErEaL, on 11 August 2012 - 05:44 AM, said:

Perhaps these characteristics were not "undesirable" among the Arabs of that time.  We can't use our modern standard of judgement of physical beauty for the past.  Also, it would seem that back then the Arabs considered physical beauty insignificant in comparison to courage, strength, nobility, and virtue.  They probably were not petty like us living in the modern world of consumerism.

Great understanding of things!  And tell that guy who calls himself "A True Sunni" to show you proof in Arabic that Zainab (RAA) complained about Zaid (RAA) being dark-skinned.

[A true Sunni]

Truth1234, on 12 August 2012 - 03:48 PM, said:

Great understanding of things!  And tell that guy who calls himself "A True Sunni" to show you proof in Arabic that Zainab (RAA) complained about Zaid (RAA) being dark-skinned.

You are a boring munafiq. Only reason I waste time answering you is that on the Day of Judgement I can say that I never let a munafiqs words go unanswered.

Story of Zayd bin Harith is well known and the complaints from Ummul Momineen Hz Bibi Zainab are equally well known. For you to feign ignorance of all these oft repeated narrations only exposes your munafiq nature yet again

[Truth1234]

Truth1234, on 12 August 2012 - 03:48 PM, said:

Great understanding of things!  And tell that guy who calls himself "A True Sunni" to show you proof in Arabic that Zainab (RAA) complained about Zaid (RAA) being dark-skinned.

Make sure he shows you that proof.  Don't let him bark his way out of it.