12 replies to this topic

[Aabiss_Shakari]

This is essential part of Tauheed that only Allah is omnipresent but some Shias believe that Imams are also Omnipresent. What is your view based on Quran and sayings of Ahl ul Bayt a.s about this. Is believing that Imams are Omnipresent not a kind of Shirk?

[coldcow]

Imams are normal flesh and blood people, and are dead.  As far as I know, Shia majority opinion is that there are only 2 people currently alive that don't live on Earth - Jesus and the 12th Imam (PBUT).  I suppose if God allowed it, they could be omnipresent, but otherwise no.

[Ali Musaaa :)]

No they are not.

[Aabiss_Shakari]

Can i get the view of major former and current religious scholars and Quranic verses and hadiths about this issue?

[Goku]

If Muhammad (saw) is then how can the Imams be? This seems like a ghulat belief.

Muhammad b. Ya`qub from Muhammad b. Yahya from Ahmad b. Muhammad from Ibn Abi `Umayr from Hisham b. Salim from Abu `Abdillah عليه السلام.  He said: A group came to Amir al-Mumineen عليه السلام, and they said: Peace be upon you, O our Lord! So he sought their repentance, but they did not repent.  So he dug a pit for them and lit a fire in it and dug a pit to its other side and conveyed between them (i.e. joined the two pits to one another).  So when they did not repent he threw them in the pit and lit (the fire) in the other pit until they died.

And:

And from Muhammad b. Yahya from Ahmad b. Muhammad from Ibn Mahbub from Salih b. Sahl from Kirdeen from a man from Abu `Abdillah and Abu Ja`far عليهما السلام that when Amir al-Mu’mineen عليه السلام departed from the people of Basra, seventy men of the Zutt came to him.  So they gave salam to him and spoke with him in their language.  So he responded to them in their language.  Then he said:  Verily I am not as you say.  I am a created servant of Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì.  So they refused him and they said: You are He.  So he said: If you do not cease and return from what you have said regarding me, and repent to Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì, I shall kill you.  So they refused to return and repent.  So he commanded that wells be dug for them, so they were dug.  Then some of them were pierced to some (i.e. the wells joined to one another via an opening between them).  Then he hurled them in it.  Then he covered their heads (i.e. of the wells’ openings).  Then the fire was ignited in a well from them in which there was not (any)one of them in it.  So the smoke entered upon them in it and they died. (From Man La Yahdarahu al-Faqih)

[Kaniz e Zahra]

Goku, on 26 July 2012 - 03:39 AM, said:

If Muhammad (saw) is then how can the Imams be? This seems like a ghulat belief.

Muhammad b. Ya`qub from Muhammad b. Yahya from Ahmad b. Muhammad from Ibn Abi `Umayr from Hisham b. Salim from Abu `Abdillah عليه السلام.  He said: A group came to Amir al-Mumineen عليه السلام, and they said: Peace be upon you, O our Lord! So he sought their repentance, but they did not repent.  So he dug a pit for them and lit a fire in it and dug a pit to its other side and conveyed between them (i.e. joined the two pits to one another).  So when they did not repent he threw them in the pit and lit (the fire) in the other pit until they died.

And:

And from Muhammad b. Yahya from Ahmad b. Muhammad from Ibn Mahbub from Salih b. Sahl from Kirdeen from a man from Abu `Abdillah and Abu Ja`far عليهما السلام that when Amir al-Mu’mineen عليه السلام departed from the people of Basra, seventy men of the Zutt came to him.  So they gave salam to him and spoke with him in their language.  So he responded to them in their language.  Then he said:  Verily I am not as you say.  I am a created servant of Allah سبحانه وتعالى.  So they refused him and they said: You are He.  So he said: If you do not cease and return from what you have said regarding me, and repent to Allah سبحانه وتعالى, I shall kill you.  So they refused to return and repent.  So he commanded that wells be dug for them, so they were dug.  Then some of them were pierced to some (i.e. the wells joined to one another via an opening between them).  Then he hurled them in it.  Then he covered their heads (i.e. of the wells’ openings).  Then the fire was ignited in a well from them in which there was not (any)one of them in it.  So the smoke entered upon them in it and they died. (From Man La Yahdarahu al-Faqih)

Goku where is the reference of them being omnipresent or not in this narration.It's about nusehris who called Ali(as) God,but where was the mention of omnipresence.
When we believe that there is always representative of iblees with everyone,so the representative of God should be everywhere to so He may work as counter force to them.Do you actually believe that vice can be so powerful but the virtue has not been even equal powers? Though they would be even more.

[tahiraansari]

Salams
i don't know exactly about omniprsent but here's hadith on the Imam a.s. knowing the unseen:

Imam Sadiq a.s. was asked:
'Does the Imam know the unseen? '.

The Imam replied:
"No.  But whenever he wishes to know something, Allah makes him know it".

(The Scale of Wisdom ~ Rayshahri, pg 851, #4895 and al Kafi vol 1, pg 257, #4)

Just thinking myself... Well, the Prophets and Imams a.s. come to us in our dreams. and also, they are the Wasila and Allah tells us to ask through them sooo?
Good question. Hope some very clear answers are comming.

Also, al Khidr a.s. is alive as Imam Ridha a.s. told us:
'Khidr has drunk form the fountain of life so he is alive and will not die until the horn is blown".

(The Scale of Wisdom ~ Rayshahri, pg 1045 and Kamal al din pg 390, #4)

[Renaissance_Man]

No one except Allah (SWT) is omnipresent.  Our belief is that all of the Imams except the current are shaheed and in accordance with the Quran, they are in a different realm from the dead.  With Allah's (SWT) permission, they can intercede and respond to intercession.

[ajmalnijat]

coldcow, on 25 July 2012 - 08:30 PM, said:

Imams are normal flesh and blood people, and are dead.  As far as I know, Shia majority opinion is that there are only 2 people currently alive that don't live on Earth - Jesus and the 12th Imam (PBUT).  I suppose if God allowed it, they could be omnipresent, but otherwise no.

I may be wrong about this, but isn't the Mahdi - the 12th Imam - currently living among us but in a state of occultation? As opposed to Jesus (A.S.) who was "raised up by God unto the heavens".

[struggling_On]

worry not folks whether they are not omnipresent or not, but they are definity aware of what u do and what u will do .......  Who believe in this, believe and those who don't will believe when they will spent their first night in grave.........

[nobody]

BA/HR/NR
S/A
Before analysing if Imams(a.s.) are omnipresent, let's ask the question what exactly does omnipresent mean even for Allah(azwj). Does one consider Allah(azwj) to be omnipresent by consdering Him(azwj) to be "mixed" in every matter, space, time, and energy (aozobillah) or by thinking everything is inside Him(azwj) (aozobillah) Or by thinking that He (azwj) is sitting somewhere in the skies and watching all of us like we watch television (aozobillah).

Can the questioner or others elborate on their thoughts on their view of omnipresence as it applies to Allah(azwj)?

Wassalam

[eThErEaL]

The reality of the Prophet (S) is the substance of the entire universe.  Out of him, all things appear to us (and exist).  This is also known as "The Breath of the All-Merciful" (Nafas Ur-Rahma) through which God articulates the words of His creation--"The "Be" of every thing.  The Prophet (S) is not the Unknowable Essence of God, but the Prophet (S) is everything of God that we know about (God-Manifest).  The Prophet (S) is therefore the principle of mercy behind everything (the existence of everything).  The Unknowable Essence on the other hand is beyond Mercy and beyond Existence.

[Logical Islam]

Imams are flesh and bone, and nothing compared to God almighty. Thieir knowledge is only of what God gives them.

i belive that the only purpose of the imams was to preserve the prophet pbuh's teaching, whilst serving as role models to us.

God ... the one who made the universe out of nothing, is the only one i depend on.