22 replies to this topic

[zainally]

I read this post on a Sunni forum ridiculing us for one of our major claims in which we say that every nation will be called on the Day of the Judgement along with their Imam (as mentioned in the Quran) and in the Hadith that whoever dies without knowing their Imam dies the death of ignorance. The Sunni post questioned - who was the Imam between Hazrat Isa AS and Rasool Allah SAWW. Is there an article or lecture that sheds some light on this?

[worshiper]

perhaps the thing is related to the leader of the time.
we have our imam but we cannot see him or contact him directly, and he will come to us when Allah(swt) wills. similarly the people of hazrat Isa(As) consider him as their savior and will be accountable to him for their faith according to his(as) teachings.
so the imam between hazrat Isa(as) and Mohammad(saww) wd be hazrat isa(as) himself.
ws.

[-Enlightened]

zainally, on 23 July 2012 - 01:02 PM, said:

I read this post on a Sunni forum ridiculing us for one of our major claims in which we say that every nation will be called on the Day of the Judgement along with their Imam (as mentioned in the Quran) and in the Hadith that whoever dies without knowing their Imam dies the death of ignorance. The Sunni post questioned - who was the Imam between Hazrat Isa AS and Rasool Allah SAWW. Is there an article or lecture that sheds some light on this?

The imam or the prophet ?   I'm a bit confused here.

Edited by -Enlightened, 23 July 2012 - 01:23 PM.

[MOHIB E AHLAYBAIT]

The question should be that since the world is never empty of Allah's hujjah, who was the Hujjah before prophet Mohammad time.

The answer is Hazrat Abdul Mutalib was alo God's Hujjah in this world, so was Abd e Manaf.. his fater and so on till you get to the time of Prophet Esa.

[Fink]

if something doesnt make sense, we shias should not twist things our way. The whole theory about 24/ 7 imamah is silly.

The earth existed for billions of years without humans, its sure not going come crashing down just because Alkafi says so.

[zainally]

Imam - the rank of Imam is higher than Messenger. Some Prophets including the Last Messenger are Imams.

Fink - It's in the Quran isn't it? Verse 17:71 and Hadith

"Whosoever dies without recognizing the Imam of his time dies the death of the ignorance (Jahiliyyah)."
Ahmad b. Hanbal, al-Musnad, p. 96.

Well, the world didn't come crashing down when Imam Ali was denied and rejected by the majority of the people. Mister Abu Bakar was made the first caliph by the will of the people. Allah's chosen leadership thereafter remained away from the limelight and were not given a chance to govern. Our insistence is only this: They were the true governors and had the right given to by Allah to govern.

Edited by zainally, 23 July 2012 - 03:03 PM.

[Murtada]

Ugh, the ignorant Sunnis. Read http://www.tafseerco... 5: verse 17:71, 'Alaama Tabataba'i's portion (Shi'i). You can also contrast it with ibn Kathir's (Sunni).

[Qa'im]

zainally, on 23 July 2012 - 01:02 PM, said:

I read this post on a Sunni forum ridiculing us for one of our major claims in which we say that every nation will be called on the Day of the Judgement along with their Imam (as mentioned in the Quran) and in the Hadith that whoever dies without knowing their Imam dies the death of ignorance. The Sunni post questioned - who was the Imam between Hazrat Isa AS and Rasool Allah SAWW. Is there an article or lecture that sheds some light on this?

There are a basket of opinions regarding the succession of `Isa. The majority view takes the hadiths that indicate that Sham`un as-Safa was the Imam after `Isa . I may debate the authenticity of such narrations, but they absolutely do exist in large number and are a high possibility. In Christianity, the same person (aka Simon Peter) is seen as the one who Jesus established his "church" upon. He is the first Pope in Catholicism and therefore he is deemed to be an infallible saint guided by the Holy Spirit.

There are other theories too - that Jesus' apostles (hawariyyun) all succeeded him together, or that James the Just succeeded him (an argument that I was a proponent of, but is more based on history and not Islamic hadith sources).

[MOHIB E AHLAYBAIT]

Fink, on 23 July 2012 - 02:11 PM, said:

if something doesnt make sense, we shias should not twist things our way. The whole theory about 24/ 7 imamah is silly.

The earth existed for billions of years without humans, its sure not going come crashing down just because Alkafi says so.

Please do not exhibit your lack of knowledge in this proud manner. Was Earth the first creation of God? No so who was created before creation of earth? Was it an Imam? Once you can answer these questions then come back and we can discuss what you called "24/7 Imamah".

[mkazmi]

Imam Ali says:

My name in the Bible is 'ILIYA', and in the Torah is 'BARI', and in the Zaboor is 'ERI'. Indians know my name as 'KAABER', Romans know me as 'BIT'RISA', Persians know me as 'JOBEIR', Turks know me as 'TABIR', blacks know me as 'HEYTAR', Priests know me as 'BUSI', Abyssinians know me as 'BITRIK', My Mother knows me as 'HEYDARA', My nurse knows me as 'MAYMOUN'. Arabs know me as 'ALI', Armenians know me as 'FAREEQ', and my father knows me as 'ZAHEER'.

[Source: Maani Al Akhbar Pg. 59]

[quran-alhakeem]

well jesus (a.s) never died so nobody can be his successer  he is still in ghayb so he is still Allah(s.w.t) hujjah on Earth

[tahiraansari]

Salams
This is a long list and I don't know of a quick way to get it on net but the hadith says:

Imam Sadiq a.s. said that the Prohet Mohammad said:
"I am the master of the Prophets, my successor is the master of the successors - and his sucessors are the masters of the successors.
Adam asked Allah to choose a righeous successor for him so Allah revealed to him:
"I honored the propehts with prophethood and I chose the best of my creation as their successors. O Adam! Assign yoiur son Sheith to be your successor".
'Sheith was Allah's gift to Adam.
Allah sent a Houri to Adam and he married Sheith to her.  She gave birth to Shenan who was th succcessor of Sheith......
the list goes on at length and then as part of the hadith it says:
'Isa a.s. appointed Shamounon bin Haffouon al Safa as his successor.
Shamounon bin Haffoun al Safa appointed Yahya bin Zakariya as his successor
and so on until the last one in the tradition  before Ali is:
Barda appointed me as his successor.
And I appoint You, O Ali a.s. as my Successor'.....

Sorry for the sloppy job on this but internet time is about up.
see the hadith at (The Glad Tidings of Mustafa... ~Tabari, pg 123, #7

[Shah Waris Pak]

Aoudhu Billahi Minash Shaytaan Nir Rajiim Bismillah Hir Rahman Nir Rahiim

Nahmadahu Nusalli Ala Rasooli Hil Kariim

Alhamdulillah, we did hear Isa (Alaihis Salam) roaming the skies and currently we believe he is in the west over America's.

[Logical Islam]

If only the Imam was in public, proffesing clear compelling miracles, evidences, and logic only a being gifted with some kind of divine knowledge would have.

[jund_el_Mahdi]

Shah Waris Pak, on 29 August 2012 - 09:16 AM, said:

Aoudhu Billahi Minash Shaytaan Nir Rajiim Bismillah Hir Rahman Nir Rahiim

Nahmadahu Nusalli Ala Rasooli Hil Kariim

Alhamdulillah, we did hear Isa (Alaihis Salam) roaming the skies and currently we believe he is in the west over America's.

Like in a plane or something? Please tell us more!

[Shah Waris Pak]

As Salaam Alaykum All,

How did khwaja Moinuddin Hasan Chisti was asked to look up by his Spritual guide Hazrath Usman Harooni until heavens, like wise.

There are a Jamaat of Auliya Allah Taa'ala Ajmaeen, always in the presence of Allah Subhanawa Taa'ala like surrounding him, they are always learning and Talk to Allah but there surely is a veil between them and Allah the Supreme Being, this Jamaat also consists of previous Prophets (Alaihis Salaam) and they guide people from time to time. A man can travel in his Salah, if he has truly followed and accepted these ayats;

Indeed, Allah has purchased from the believers their lives and their properties [in exchange] for that they will have Paradise.

And

Wa maa qalaqtul jinna wal insana illa liyabuddon.

[diracdeltafunc]

Can some1 kindly answer the question please?

[kaash]

Earth has never been devoid of Allah's Hujjat. From the inception of time there were two categories of prophets, ones whom Allah commanded to manifest/announce themselves to be Allah's prophet while others were instructed to remain hidden and convey Allah's message to people through their acts and deeds.

There were 124,000 prophets in all that Allah sent to set people on sirat-e-mustaqeem. However, how many of them do we know about? Only a few. Most of the prophets were commanded to 'remain behind the veil' and work for people's welbeing and spread Allah's message. They were also Allah's hujjat on earth but no one was aware of that fact.

Likewise, prophets and Imams came in the era between Hazrat Esa (A.S) and Rasool Allah (SAWW) but they remained behind the veil. Even before the worldly birth of Rasool Allah, some prophet must be present among arabs (quresh) to guide the willing on the right path...to carry out Allah's commands.

To have an idea about those rightly guided people, you will have to scour history...which ofcourse will not be the easiest of the tasks. but you will eventually come to realize that there were some people in arab who were rightly guided and worshipped only Allah. They were the Allah's hidden hujjat on earth. since Allah willed to have them remain hidden, therefore, no one will ever be able to name any of them. Its Allah's secret and only a Masoom (A.S.) can be a confidant of Allah's secret.

[Abdul Qaim]

Logical Islam, on 29 August 2012 - 10:38 AM, said:

If only the Imam was in public, proffesing clear compelling miracles, evidences, and logic only a being gifted with some kind of divine knowledge would have.

Then it would no longer be a matter of faith. There would no longer need to be an internal search for the truth. It would be a matter of measurable, empirical fact.

In fact, why doesn't Allah (SWT) just send hosts of angels down from the heavens to convince every atheist that He exists? While they're at it, they can bring some mana from the heavenly 7-11 to feed the newly converted masses ...

Shah Waris Pak, on 29 August 2012 - 09:16 AM, said:

Aoudhu Billahi Minash Shaytaan Nir Rajiim Bismillah Hir Rahman Nir Rahiim

Nahmadahu Nusalli Ala Rasooli Hil Kariim

Alhamdulillah, we did hear Isa (Alaihis Salam) roaming the skies and currently we believe he is in the west over America's.

I hear you've been seen orbiting Uranus ...

Edited by Abdul Qaim, 12 September 2012 - 05:24 AM.

[Shah Waris Pak]

Brother Muhibb,

You are wrong its VENUS.

Alhamdulillah, Calph Ali (Raziallaho Anho) has given me the duty of taking care of Dervesh's, Poor and the Miskeen, while I was in Shah Waris' Mazar last year.

We have appointed a jama'ath of 40 young people and we are all watching Al-Rum. Over Spain to be precise.And keeping an eye on Al-Aqsa as well.

And Australia is a haughty nation, we may have plans for them as well.Inshallah  (The APAC Region is very quite)

Jazakallah.

[AlAbd AlThaleel]

^ Looks like Br. :Sami has a challenger for SC's most interesting charectar.

Edited by AlAbd AlThaleel, 17 September 2012 - 09:36 PM.

[Repentant]

Sallam Alykum,

(Prophet?) Khizr is still alive... he could also be the Imam?

[jobsikd]

dear all brothers, Hazrat ISA's shariat has also 12 imams...if you read book Tarikh e Islam then you will get their names.... Mola Ali A.S is the Imam of Universe not only particular shariat instead of Islam because Islam is the Universal religion.