185 replies to this topic

[Decent Qods]

Just one verse in Quran made me Shia

[muhibb-ali]

Which verse?

[hameedeh]

Should we guess which ayah?

One day We shall call every group of people by their respective Imams. (Quran 17:71)

"And We ASSIGNED from among them some Imams who GUIDE by Our authority since they were patient and believed firmly in Our Signs." (Quran 32:24)

"O' you who believe! Fear Allah and be with the truthful"  (Quran 9:119)

"And most surely Abraham was among the Shia of him (i.e., Noah)" (Quran 37:83)

http://www.al-islam....apter1b/13.html

[Goku]

O_O why didn't you list the verse?... lol

hameedeh, on 17 July 2012 - 01:54 AM, said:

Should we guess which ayah?

One day We shall call every group of people by their respective Imams. (Quran 17:71)

"And We ASSIGNED from among them some Imams who GUIDE by Our authority since they were patient and believed firmly in Our Signs." (Quran 32:24)

"O' you who believe! Fear Allah and be with the truthful"  (Quran 9:119)

"And most surely Abraham was among the Shia of him (i.e., Noah)" (Quran 37:83)

http://www.al-islam....apter1b/13.html

or maybe 33:33 =]

[abbas110]

May be 5:55 or 3:33.

[Mahdavist]

[4.24] And all married women except those whom your right hands possess (this is) Allah's ordinance to you, and lawful for you are (all women) besides those, provided that you seek (them) with your property, taking (them) in marriage not committing fornication. Then as to those whom you profit by, give them their dowries as appointed; and there is no blame on you about what you mutually agree after what is appointed; surely Allah is Knowing, Wise.

[adnan121]

"Yaa ayyuhal lazina aamanua ati'ullaaha wa ati'ur rasuula   wa ulil amri minkum,"  

meaning;

"O ye who believe! obey Allah and obey the Apostle and those vested with authority among you."

[Dagga]

hameedeh, on 17 July 2012 - 01:54 AM, said:

Should we guess which ayah?

One day We shall call every group of people by their respective Imams. (Quran 17:71)

By their record (of deeds)*

Quote

"And We ASSIGNED from among them some Imams who GUIDE by Our authority since they were patient and believed firmly in Our Signs." (Quran 32:24)

Guide by OUR COMMAND, only prophets guide by Allah's command.

Quote

"O' you who believe! Fear Allah and be with the truthful"  (Quran 9:119)

There are millions upon millions of truthful people, what's your point?

Quote

"And most surely Abraham was among the Shia of him (i.e., Noah)" (Quran 37:83)

Ibrahim a.s was a follower of Nuh a.s doesn't that mean we should follow the prophet saw rather than your ayatollahs?

@ Goku

33:33 is talking about the wives of the prophet ...

@ abbas

5:55 and 3:33 they have nothing to do with your religion.

@ Mahdavist

is that meant to make mut3a halal?

@ adnan

I read Arabic too, don't try fool anyone, ulil amr means those in authority and minkum means among you, those in authority among you

[Kismet110]

Dagga, you are ignorant - why are you so intent to make sunnis look stupid?

I'm not going to grace all of your lies above with an answer because that will elevate you above the status of ignorant; a waste of my time.

ALI

[adnan121]

Say (O Muhammad): Allah is sufficient as a witness between me and you and "HE" who has knowledge of the Book.” (13:43)

[ImamAliLover]

Dagga, on 17 July 2012 - 08:17 AM, said:

33:33 is talking about the wives of the prophet ...

According to who?  'Ikrimah?  Scholars?

Let's see what al-Hasan(as) himself said in Tafsir ibn Kathir for 33:33:
وَقَدْ قَالَ اِبْن أَبِي حَاتِم حَدَّثَنَا أَبِي حَدَّثَنَا أَبُو الْوَلِيد حَدَّثَنَا أَبُو عَوَانَة عَنْ حُصَيْن بْن عَبْد الرَّحْمَن عَنْ اِبْن جَمِيلَة قَالَ إِنَّ الْحَسَن بْن عَلِيّ رَضِيَ اللَّه عَنْهُمَا اُسْتُخْلِفَ حِين قُتِلَ عَلِيّ رَضِيَ اللَّه عَنْهَا قَالَ : فَبَيْنَمَا هُوَ يُصَلِّي إِذْ وَثَبَ عَلَيْهِ رَجُل فَطَعَنَهُ بِخِنْجَرِهِ فَزَعَمَ حُصَيْن أَنَّهُ بَلَغَهُ أَنَّ الَّذِي طَعَنَهُ رَجُل مِنْ بَنِي أَسَد وَحَسَن رَضِيَ اللَّه عَنْهُ سَاجِد قَالَ فَيَزْعُمُونَ أَنَّ الطَّعْنَة وَقَعَتْ فِي وَرِكه فَمَرِضَ مِنْهَا أَشْهُرًا ثُمَّ بَرَأَ فَقَعَدَ عَلَى الْمِنْبَر فَقَالَ : يَا أَهْل الْعِرَاق اِتَّقُوا اللَّه فِينَا فَإِنَّا أُمَرَاؤُكُمْ وَضِيفَانكُمْ وَنَحْنُ أَهْل الْبَيْت الَّذِي قَالَ اللَّه تَعَالَى" إِنَّمَا يُرِيد اللَّه لِيُذْهِب عَنْكُمْ الرِّجْس أَهْل الْبَيْت وَيُطَهِّركُمْ تَطْهِيرًا " قَالَ فَمَا زَالَ يَقُولهَا حَتَّى مَا بَقِيَ أَحَد مِنْ أَهْل الْمَسْجِد إِلَّا وَهُوَ يَحِنّ بُكَاء
Ibn Abi Hatim said:  Abu Walid narrated to us: Abu 'Awanah narrated to us, from HuSayn bin 'Abd al-Rahmad, from ibn (maybe Abi?) Jamilah.  He said:
al-Husayn bin 'Ali(رضي الله عنهما) became the Khalifah when 'Ali(ra) was killed.  When he was praying, a man jumped upon him and began stabbing him with a dagger - HuSayn [bin 'Abd al-Rahmad] believed that the one stabbing him was a man from Banu Asad - whilst al-Husayn(ra) was doing sujood.  They believe that the stab hit his hip, so he became sick for a month, then recovered.
Then he went on the minbar and said:
"O People of Iraq!  Be conscious of your duty to Allah regarding us, for we are your amirs and your guests, and we are the Ahl al-Bayt whom Allah said:
"Allah intends only to remove from you the impurity [of sin], O people of the [Prophet's] household, and to purify you with [extensive] purification."
And he continued saying this until everyone in the mosque began crying.
http://quran.al-isla...ookID=11&Page=1

And there's an alternative chain from al-Tabarani:
حدثنا محمود بن محمد الواسطي ، حدثنا وهب بن بقية أخبرنا خالد عن حصين عن
أبي جميلة إن الحسن بن علي -
http://www.islamweb....586545&hid=2698
(you can check out the asaneed, takhrij, and shawid on that site as well)

And let's see what 'Ali bin al-Husayn Zayn al-'Abideen(as) said, also in Tafsir ibn Kathir:
وَقَالَ السُّدِّيّ عَنْ أَبِي الدَّيْلَم قَالَ : قَالَ عَلِيّ بْن الْحُسَيْن رَضِيَ اللَّه عَنْهُمَا لِرَجُلٍ مِنْ أَهْل الشَّام أَمَا قَرَأْت فِي الْأَحْزَاب " إِنَّمَا يُرِيد اللَّه لِيُذْهِب عَنْكُمْ الرِّجْس أَهْل الْبَيْت وَيُطَهِّركُمْ تَطْهِيرًا "
قَالَ نَعَمْ وَلَأَنْتُمْ هُمْ ؟ قَالَ نَعَمْ
al-Suddi said, from Abi al-Daylam:  'Ali bin al-Husayn رضي الله عنهما said to a man from Shaam:
"Have you not read in (surah) al-Ahzab:
Allah intends only to remove from you the impurity [of sin], O people of the [Prophet's] household, and to purify you with [extensive] purification?"
He said, "Yes, and this is for you? (plural)" (alt: and you (plural) are them?)"
He said, "Yes."
http://quran.al-isla...ookID=11&Page=1

So this is test for the love of Ahl al-Bayt(as).  It's one thing to say that one loves them; it's another thing to actually follow them by taking their tafisr, their fiqh, their 'aqeeda, etc.

And feel free to recommend any alternative translations

And Allah(swt) knows best

wassalam

Edited by ImamAliLover, 17 July 2012 - 12:19 PM.

[Dagga]

ImamAliLover, on 17 July 2012 - 12:00 PM, said:

According to who?  'Ikrimah?  Scholars?

Brother, no one needs a scholarly interpretation of this, please read the following for yourself,

O wives of the Prophet, you are not like anyone among women. If you fear Allah , then do not be soft in speech [to men], lest he in whose heart is disease should covet, but speak with appropriate speech.
And abide in your houses and do not display yourselves as [was] the display of the former times of ignorance. And establish prayer and give zakah and obey Allah and His Messenger. Allah intends only to remove from you the impurity [of sin], O people of the [Prophet's] household, and to purify you with [extensive] purification. [Quran 33:32-33]


If that verse makes them infallible then its making the wives of the prophet infallible LOL.

Edited by Dagga, 17 July 2012 - 03:08 PM.

[Rasul]

Dagga, on 17 July 2012 - 03:07 PM, said:

Brother, no one needs a scholarly interpretation of this, please read the following for yourself,

O wives of the Prophet, you are not like anyone among women. If you fear Allah , then do not be soft in speech [to men], lest he in whose heart is disease should covet, but speak with appropriate speech.
And abide in your houses and do not display yourselves as [was] the display of the former times of ignorance. And establish prayer and give zakah and obey Allah and His Messenger. Allah intends only to remove from you the impurity [of sin], O people of the [Prophet's] household, and to purify you with [extensive] purification. [Quran 33:32-33]


If that verse makes them infallible then its making the wives of the prophet infallible LOL.

One of Prophets wife appostated according to Ahli Sunnah, Her name is 'Qutaylah'


Are you so ignorant?

[Murtada]

Dagga, do you have any ahaadeeth from RasulAllaah that includes his wives in the category of Ahl al Bayt ?

[ImamAliLover]

Dagga, on 17 July 2012 - 03:07 PM, said:

Brother, no one needs a scholarly interpretation of this, please read the following for yourself,

Brother the statement of al-Hasan(as) is sufficient for me.

Also the statement of the Prophet(pbuh) when he gathered them and said "This is my Ahl al-Bayt" is good enough for me as well:
3611 - حدثنا أبو العباس محمد بن يعقوب ، ثنا العباس بن محمد الدوري ، ثنا عثمان بن عمر ، ثنا عبد الرحمن بن عبد الله بن دينار ، ثنا شريك بن أبي نمر ، عن عطاء بن يسار ، عن أم سلمة - رضي الله عنها - أنها قالت : في بيتي نزلت هذه الآية ( إنما يريد الله ليذهب عنكم الرجس أهل البيت ) قالت : فأرسل رسول الله - صلى الله عليه وسلم - إلى علي [ ص: 191 ] وفاطمة والحسن والحسين - رضي الله عنهم - أجمعين فقال : " اللهم هؤلاء أهل بيتي " ، قالت أم سلمة : يا رسول الله ، ما أنا من أهل البيت ؟ قال : " إنك أهلي خير ، وهؤلاء أهل بيتي اللهم أهلي أحق " .

هذا حديث صحيح على شرط البخاري ولم يخرجاه .
http://www.islamweb....k_no=74&ID=1449
Abu al-'Abbas Muhammad bin Ya'qoob narrated to us: al-'Abbas bin Muhammad al-Duri narrated to us: 'Uthmad bin 'Umar narrated to us. 'Abd al-Rahman bin 'Abd Allah bin Dinar narrated to us: Shareek bin Abi Nimr narrated to us, from 'Ata' bin Yassar, from Um Salama رضي الله عنها,
She said: The verse "Allah intends only to remove from you the impurity [of sin], O people of the [Prophet's] household, and to purify you with [extensive] purification" was revealed in my house, so the Messenger of Allah called for 'Ali, Fatima, al-Hasan, and al-Husayn رضي الله عنهم أجمعين and said: "O Allah, this is my Ahl al-Bayt."
So Umm Salama said, O Messenger of Allah, I'm not among your Ahl al-Bayt? He said, "You are my family good, but these are my Ahl al-Bayt, O Allah, my more deserving family(alt: my family that has more of a right)."
[al-Hakim said:] This hadith is sahih on the condition of al-Bukhari, but he didn't include it.

And even Shaykh 'Uthman al-Khamis (known for his debates over the years against the Shia) confirmed that the Prophet(pbuh) said "O Allah, this is my Ahl al-Bayt" when he gathered Ali, Fatimah, Hasan, and Husayn(as) under the cloak:

1:01

So brother, include whomever you want into that verse, just don't forget 'Ali, al-Hasan, al-Husayn, and Fatimah(as); don't forget the statement of Imam al-Hasan , one of the masters of the youth of paradise and don't forget the statement of the Messenger of Allah(pbuh), who doesn't speak from his desires.

i've presented 3 hadiths that says that those four(as) are included in that verse. If you have any from either the Prophet or from any from the Mother of the Believers, then feel free to quote them. And if you have a problem with the authenticity of anything i've posted, then feel free to critque, and if there's an issue with anything i've translated, then feel free to make a correction. We are all brothers insha'Allah and we are all here seeking knowledge to improve ourselves and get closer to Allahسبحانه وتعالى.

These hadiths and the several others are sufficient for me to include those 4(as) in 33:33, so all i ask is to please not neglect 'Ali, Fatima, Hasan, and Husayn عليهم السلام

And if you have doubts about al-Hakim's grading of this hadith, then here's a basic analysis of the narratators:
حدثنا أبو العباس محمد بن يعقوب ، ثنا العباس بن محمد الدوري ، ثنا عثمان بن عمر ، ثنا عبد الرحمن بن عبد الله بن دينار ، ثنا شريك بن أبي نمر ، عن عطاء بن يسار ، عن أم سلمة - رضي الله عنها

We'll start from the bottom and work our way up insha'Allah:
- Umm Salama : The wife of the Prophet . Needs no introduction and is obviously thiqa (trustworthy)

- 'Ata bin Yassar: Was a narrator in Sahih al-Bukhari in ~63 narrations. 'nuff said. Here's an example:
وقال إبراهيم، عن موسى بن عقبة، عن صفوان بن سليم، عن عطاء بن يسار، عن أبي هريرة قال:قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم:
يسلم الصغير على الكبير، والمار على القاعد، والقليل على الكثير
hadith #5880 in the Arabic version

- Shareek bin Abi Nimr: Narrated a hadith in Sahih al-Bukhari and 3 in Sahih Muslim. Again that should be sufficient.
Here's the one in al-Bukhari:
حدثنا محمد بن مسكين أبو الحسن: حدثنا يحيى بن حسان: حدثنا سليمان، عن شريك بن أبي نمر، عن سعيد بن المسيب قال:
(long hadith. #3471 in the Arabic version)

- Abd al-Rahman bin Abdillah bin Dinar: Narrated 10 hadiths in Sahih al-Bukhari. This should be sufficient.
Here's an example of one in al-Bukhari:
حدثنا الفضل بن سهل قال: حدثنا الحسن بن موسى الأشيب قال: حدثنا عبد الرحمن بن عبد الله بن دينار، عن زيد بن أسلم، عن عطاء بن يسار، عن أبي هريرة:
أن رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم قال: (يصلون لكم، فإن أصابوا فلكم، وإن أخطؤوا فلكم وعليهم).

- 'Uthman bin 'Umar. Narrated ~25 hadiths in Sahih al-Bukhari. This should be sufficient.
An example from al-Bukhari:
حدثنا عبد الله بن محمد قال: حدثنا عثمان بن عمر قال: أخبرنا يونس، عن الزهري، عن أبي سلمة، عن أبي هريرة قال

- al-'Abbad bin Muhammad al-Duri:
Since you can read Arabic alhamdulillah, you can save me the time of having to translate the sayings of the scholars regarding him:
قال بن أبي حاتم صدوق سمعت منه مع أبي وسئل عنه أبي فقال صدوق وقال النسائي ثقة وقال الأصم لم أر في مشائخي أحسن حديثا منه وذكره يحيى بن معين فقال صديقنا وصاحبنا
وقال مسلمة ثقة وذكره بن حبان في الثقات وقال الخليلي في الإرشاد متفق عليه يعني على عدالته وإلا فالشيخان لم يخرج له واحد منهما
http://ar.wikisource...%85%D9%84%D8%A9
#226

- Finally, Abu al-'Abbas Muhammad bin Ya'qoob: One of the scholars whom al-Hakim narrates from again and again and again in his Musatrak

All i say is not to exlude those 4(as) in your understanding of the ayah; who you include is up to you.

And an early Shahr Ramadhan Mubarak

And Allah(swt) knows best

was salam

Edited by ImamAliLover, 17 July 2012 - 08:19 PM.

[Al-MuHammadee]

Dagga is an ignorant, dishonest Quranist.

[Gypsy]

Which one verse?

[Kismet110]

Rasul, on 17 July 2012 - 03:39 PM, said:

One of Prophets wife appostated according to Ahli Sunnah, Her name is 'Qutaylah'

Are you so ignorant?

Ooops, I think dagga has dropped a boo-boo yet again.

Asking an ignorant person the exact level of his ignorance? C'mon bro, seriously?

ALI

[Aabiss_Shakari]

BTW about which verse the OP is talking about?

[Dagga]

What's wrong with you guys, I am not saying anything from my point of view, read the Quran and see for yourself.

O wives of the Prophet, you are not like anyone among women. If you fear Allah , then do not be soft in speech [to men], lest he in whose heart is disease should covet, but speak with appropriate speech.
And abide in your houses and do not display yourselves as [was] the display of the former times of ignorance. And establish prayer and give zakah and obey Allah and His Messenger. Allah intends only to remove from you the impurity [of sin], O people of the [Prophet's] household, and to purify you with [extensive] purification. [Quran 33:32-33]

If 33:33 and 'purification' is 'infallibility', then the Prophet's wives are infallible :S

Edited by Dagga, 19 July 2012 - 04:19 PM.

[power]

Dagga, on 19 July 2012 - 04:18 PM, said:

What's wrong with you guys, I am not saying anything from my point of view, read the Quran and see for yourself.

O wives of the Prophet, you are not like anyone among women. If you fear Allah , then do not be soft in speech [to men], lest he in whose heart is disease should covet, but speak with appropriate speech.
And abide in your houses and do not display yourselves as [was] the display of the former times of ignorance. And establish prayer and give zakah and obey Allah and His Messenger. Allah intends only to remove from you the impurity [of sin], O people of the [Prophet's] household, and to purify you with [extensive] purification. [Quran 33:32-33]

Dagga, on 19 July 2012 - 04:18 PM, said:

If 33:33 and 'purification' is 'infallibility', then the Prophet's wives are infallible :S

The above  is your point of view

[Dagga]

power, on 19 July 2012 - 06:05 PM, said:

The above  is your point of view

It is a SHIA point of view because they say that verse makes Ahlul Bayt INFALLIBLE! if you take the verse in context and read it, Allah clearly refers to Ahlul Bayt as the wives of the Prophet. I am not saying these are the people that Allah said are "Ahlul Bayt" and only them will be "Ahlul Bayt", rather in this verse AHLUL BAYT is taken for its LITERAL meaning, people of the household.

[awaiting_for_the.12th]

If Dagga is a Quranist, then this dialogue is over.

[power]

Dagga, on 19 July 2012 - 06:08 PM, said:

It is a SHIA point of view because they say that verse makes Ahlul Bayt INFALLIBLE!

It's not a point of view it's a fact!

[Dagga]

So the wives of the Prophet are infallible?