104 replies to this topic

[titumir]

I've seen endless shia-sunni arguments on this site, on various matters. These arguments go on and on without end. I'd like to greatly simplify matters by asking our Sunni brothers just one simple question, that I'd like them to answer.



Q: Why should a person believe that "All sahaba were Just (adil)"?



Thanks.

I believe if this question can be settled it would greatly help shia and sunni to reach a final understanding.

[Goku]

wasallam, very good question!

titumir, on 13 July 2012 - 09:33 AM, said:

I believe if this question can be settled it would greatly help shia and sunni to reach a final understanding.

no it won't lol....

[Rasul]

Sunnis believe that Sahaba were chosen 'as Prophets' were chosen?

Sunnis believe Sahaba are greater than Prophets ?

[tahiraansari]

Salams,
it is a very simple issue but the people complicate it by following their own imaginations and mis-information. The issue is: Did Allah appoint leadership (not prophethood) after the death of the Prophet Mohammad?
Anyone who really cares about Haqq and their Next Life, seems like they would go to the heart of this matter... not in endless discussions, but got to the written sources... and ask Allah to guide them to the Truth.

[Ameen]

titumir, on 13 July 2012 - 09:33 AM, said:

I've seen endless shia-sunni arguments on this site, on various matters. These arguments go on and on without end. I'd like to greatly simplify matters by asking our Sunni brothers just one simple question, that I'd like them to answer.



Q: Why should a person believe that "All sahaba were Just (adil)"?



Thanks.

I believe if this question can be settled it would greatly help shia and sunni to reach a final understanding.

Very good question, goodluck!

[power]

They have to believe in this concept, otherwise there faith become jeopardise. As there faith is built around the companions. They have no choice… if they accept some companions had made blatant mistake, well you can imagine the repercussion.

[Just the truth]

power, on 13 July 2012 - 01:10 PM, said:

They have to believe in this concept, otherwise there faith become jeopardise. As there faith is built around the companions. They have no choice… if they accept some companions had made blatant mistake, well you can imagine the
repercussion.

What are you banging on about, we know sahabis made mistakes, after all they wernt infalliable were they? They were bound to make mistakes for gods sake they were human.
We respect sahabis as sahabis nothing more nothing less they were companions of the prophet you have your views about them n I have mine, what's so hard to understand about that

[Dagga]

Brilliant answer Just the truth !

[Just the truth]

Dagga, on 13 July 2012 - 08:56 PM, said:

Brilliant answer Just the truth !

Jazakallah bro

[awaiting_for_the.12th]

Just the truth, on 13 July 2012 - 06:22 PM, said:

What are you banging on about, we know sahabis made mistakes, after all they wernt infalliable were they? They were bound to make mistakes for gods sake they were human.
We respect sahabis as sahabis nothing more nothing less they were companions of the prophet you have your views about them n I have mine, what's so hard to understand about that

You mean the "sahaba" made mistakes?
When Prophet was dying Umar declined to give pen because Prophet was delirious (nauzbillah). When Bibi Fatima asked for her land, she forgot the Prophets dont leave inheritance. When Saqqifa took place, Sahaba didnt want muslims to fight. When Ayesha fought the Caliph of the time, it was others fault. When Muwaiya cursed Imam Ali, it was time of fitna. When Umar booked it in Badr, its because he went to get other sahabas (or any other lame excuse you can put in). When Imam Ali asked for his right, he was too young. When Imam Hassan signed the treaty, its because Muawiya was the Amir ul Mumineen. Some of you have sinked so low to even claim Imam Hussain was wrong for standing up against Yazid (la).
How us shias say that our Imams can make mistake but they dont. Similarly, your Sahabas CAN make mistakes (the verbal claim you make) but they have never in history made any mistakes.
You my friends are following infallible Sahabas with an infallible book Sahih Bukhari.

[titumir]

Just the truth, on 13 July 2012 - 06:22 PM, said:

What are you banging on about, we know sahabis made mistakes, after all they wernt infalliable were they? They were bound to make mistakes for gods sake they were human.
We respect sahabis as sahabis nothing more nothing less they were companions of the prophet you have your views about them n I have mine, what's so hard to understand about that

So if Sahabas made mistakes, then how come they are adil? You could rationalize every brutal dictator, murderer, thief, etc. as a person who just made mistakes. In that case such terms as "adil" etc. become meaningless.

So now, are all sahaba "adil" or no?

Let me demonstrate: "Adil" means "just". Suppose a man comes in front of a sahaba with a request for a judgement about a thing. However, due to a personal enmity with the man the sahaba makes a "mistake" and gives judgement to the wrong party.

So now do you believe that the sahaba is both "adil" and also makes mistakes? How can he be "adil" if he made such a mistake as above? His very mistake makes him not "Adil". And if he is to be "Adil" then he cannot make any mistakes.

You must be aware, my example is not a nonsense example. Uthman did beat up Abu Dharr al Ghifari, for one example.

Edited by titumir, 14 July 2012 - 06:24 AM.

[Just the truth]

I never knew just meant infalliable oh well.

You can have a leader who is JUST in his judgement but at the same time is bound to make mistakes as he is human.

Same eg; with sahaba

[power]

Just the truth, on 14 July 2012 - 11:08 AM, said:

I never knew just meant infalliable oh well.

You can have a leader who is JUST in his judgement but at the same time is bound to make mistakes as he is human.

Same eg; with sahaba

If those mistake were introduced into your ideology who is going  to correct them??

Sahih Bukhari : 8.584

narrated Anas;

The Prophet said, "Some of my companions will come to me at my Lake Fount, and after I recognize them, they will then be taken away from me, whereupon I will say, 'My companions!' Then it will be said, 'You do not know what they innovated (new things) in the religion after you


Evidently, innovation were incorporated into your ideology, and  you cannot deny the fact, And these were your master  that you hold such a high esteem FOR  and it appears they  will be tasting fire's of hell.

GOOD LUCK

Edited by power, 14 July 2012 - 02:20 PM.

[Vigilare]

power, on 14 July 2012 - 01:51 PM, said:

If those mistake were introduced into your ideology who is going  to correct them??

Sahih Bukhari : 8.584

narrated Anas;

The Prophet said, "Some of my companions will come to me at my Lake Fount, and after I recognize them, they will then be taken away from me, whereupon I will say, 'My companions!' Then it will be said, 'You do not know what they innovated (new things) in the religion after you


Evidently, innovation were incorporated into your ideology, and  you cannot deny the fact, And these were your master  that you hold such a high esteem FOR  and it appears they  will be tasting fire's of hell.

GOOD LUCK

Obviously the Sunnis themselves have a different understand of this narration, given that it's in their book, so using it against them is just a bit....silly.  Another point is that since Bukhari is accused of lying, fabricating hadiths etc, it would have been very simple for him to leave it out.

[titumir]

Ok. So companions make mistakes, like normal people. Normal people make mistakes.

So why say "kulluhum adool" for sahaba exclusively???

By admitting that the sahaba make mistakes like normal people why do you try to elevate their status to something higher than normal people?

Or is it like, sahaba are higher than normal people, just believe it, don't ask us to show proof or any justification for it?

[Dagga]

Companions lived their lives with the Prophet and gave up everything for the sake of Allah SWT (children, wealth, lives etc), they have done more for Islam then any Shia would so get over it and stop being disrespectful.

When you ask a Jew who are the best of people in your religion? "The Companions of Moses ". Ask the Christians the same "The Disciples of Jesus ".

Ask Shi'a who are the worst of people?! "The Companions of Muhammad " Subhanallah!

[Rasul]

Dagga, on 15 July 2012 - 05:05 PM, said:

When you ask a Jew who are the best of people in your religion? "The Companions of Moses ". Ask the Christians the same "The Disciples of Jesus ".

Ask Shi'a who are the worst of people?! "The Companions of Muhammad " Subhanallah!

So you are quoting Ibn Taymiyyah (la)? lol

Show us were Shia have said that companions of Muhammad are worst of people! - I said 'Companions' not Jews like Abu Huraira (la)

Edited by Rasul, 15 July 2012 - 05:29 PM.

[AlwaysChangingHisUserName]

I remember asking a Sunni about the issue of turning a blind man away and how we believe that it was Uthman ibn Affan instead of the Holy Prophet .  The Sunni responded "how dare you say that Uthman could do such a thing!!".  Right, because a companion is better than a prophet (pbut)  *eye roll*

[Rasul]

Zulfiqar-e-Ali, on 15 July 2012 - 05:32 PM, said:

I remember asking a Sunni about the issue of turning a blind man away and how we believe that it was Uthman ibn Affan instead of the Holy Prophet .  The Sunni responded "how dare you say that Uthman could do such a thing!!".  Right, because a companion is better than a prophet (pbut)  *eye roll*

'Sahaba greater than Prophets'

[titumir]

Dagga, on 15 July 2012 - 05:05 PM, said:

Companions lived their lives with the Prophet and gave up everything for the sake of Allah SWT (children, wealth, lives etc), they have done more for Islam then any Shia would so get over it and stop being disrespectful.

When you ask a Jew who are the best of people in your religion? "The Companions of Moses ". Ask the Christians the same "The Disciples of Jesus ".

Ask Shi'a who are the worst of people?! "The Companions of Muhammad " Subhanallah!

Can you show me some proof of your assertations? As far as I know, some companions gave all of their lives for Islam, like Imam Ali . While other companions didn't have any money because they didn't like to work, like Abu Hurayra. Or else they were extremely rich, like Uthman "Ghani". I'd like you to show me some evidence that Uthman gave away his entire wealth for the Islamic cause.

The sahaba also fought and killed each other, like in Jamal and Siffeen and Nahrawan. They hurt Islam by killing the grandson of the Prophet (saaw) . They used to curse Imam Ali from the pulpits every Friday for 60 years.

As you know, the Sahaba of Musa , as soon as he left to go to the mountain to get the commandments, they left his religion and started worshipping a calf. If the Jews say that the best of people were the sahaba of Nabi Musa then they are speaking nonsense. All of them were of extremely weak faith. Maybe there were some good among them, but the majority were bad. IIRC Nabi Harun tried to dissuade them but with no success.

Oh, by the way, speaking about going astray, Umar caused enormous harm to Islam by preventing the Prophet (saaw) from writing down the document, if he wrote down which, the entiere Muslim nation could never go astray. Every sin and every misfortune of the Islamic nation is the fault of Umar, because if he had not prevented the Prophet from writing down the document, none of the sins would be committed.

The sahaba of the Nabi Isa , by the way, were also not ALL the "best of people". He was betrayed by one of his closest sahabi, Judas. Judas sold Nabi Isa for 30 pieces of silver. But his other apostles were good. So all of the sahaba of Nabi Isa were not good. "Kulluhum NOT Adool"

So, in the end, with the examples of the sahaba of Nabi Musa and Nabi Isa , all we can conclude that not all of their sahaba were good. Among them were good, and bad.

....Which by the way, is the Shia view of the Sahaba of the Prophet (saaw).

Thanks for proving our point Dagga. Its been immensely enjoyable to debate with you.

[ateef]

When you ask a Jew who are the best of people in your religion? "The Companions of Moses ". Ask the Christians the same "The Disciples of Jesus ".

Ask Shi'a who are the worst of people?! "The Companions of Muhammad " Subhanallah!

Lol true...I Cudn't Stop...


And We being In Islam...Have The Imams Also...

This Should Be circulated as a Joke...

Imam Ali is also a Sahaba...

They do not know what yet Companion Means...

[Kismet110]

Dagga, on 15 July 2012 - 05:05 PM, said:

Companions lived their lives with the Prophet and gave up everything for the sake of Allah SWT (children, wealth, lives etc), they have done more for Islam then any Shia would so get over it and stop being disrespectful.

Reference please for every single sahaba (your definition, not ours) giving up everything for the sake of Allah (JJH).

Also reference to corroborate your childish claim they did more than any Shi'ah - by definition a follower of Ali and some of the sahaba were in this category.

If you think they did less for Islam because they happened to be Shi'ah and a sahabi at at the same time then utmost lana'at on you because you fully deserve it for your Nasibism.

ALI

[Ibrahim786]

Dagga, on 15 July 2012 - 05:05 PM, said:

Companions lived their lives with the Prophet and gave up everything for the sake of Allah SWT (children, wealth, lives etc), they have done more for Islam then any Shia would so get over it and stop being disrespectful.

When you ask a Jew who are the best of people in your religion? "The Companions of Moses ". Ask the Christians the same "The Disciples of Jesus ".

Ask Shi'a who are the worst of people?! "The Companions of Muhammad " Subhanallah!

subhaannallah - how true and correct is this post !!!

you have summed this up perfectly

[Dagga]

Kismet110, on 16 July 2012 - 08:55 AM, said:

Reference please for every single sahaba (your definition, not ours) giving up everything for the sake of Allah (JJH).

Show me where I said "every single sahabah"?

Quote

for your Nasibism.

Hi, My name is Ali- Nasibism is impossible.

[Righteous]

Dagga, on 16 July 2012 - 11:32 AM, said:

Show me where I said "every single sahabah"?



Hi, My name is Ali- Nasibism is impossible.

kulluhum adool - when you use this as basis of your religion then you are saying all sahaba.

Keeping your name as Ali is meaningless if you respect and love the people who were his and his master's and his family's worse enemies.

Ibrahim786, on 16 July 2012 - 11:32 AM, said:

subhaannallah - how true and correct is this post !!!

you have summed this up perfectly

are u like slow or something....since you may not have the mental faculties to scroll up and read it....i will re-post titumir's response to Dagga

titumir, on 16 July 2012 - 12:52 AM, said:

Can you show me some proof of your assertations? As far as I know, some companions gave all of their lives for Islam, like Imam Ali . While other companions didn't have any money because they didn't like to work, like Abu Hurayra. Or else they were extremely rich, like Uthman "Ghani". I'd like you to show me some evidence that Uthman gave away his entire wealth for the Islamic cause.

The sahaba also fought and killed each other, like in Jamal and Siffeen and Nahrawan. They hurt Islam by killing the grandson of the Prophet (saaw) . They used to curse Imam Ali from the pulpits every Friday for 60 years.

As you know, the Sahaba of Musa , as soon as he left to go to the mountain to get the commandments, they left his religion and started worshipping a calf. If the Jews say that the best of people were the sahaba of Nabi Musa then they are speaking nonsense. All of them were of extremely weak faith. Maybe there were some good among them, but the majority were bad. IIRC Nabi Harun tried to dissuade them but with no success.

Oh, by the way, speaking about going astray, Umar caused enormous harm to Islam by preventing the Prophet (saaw) from writing down the document, if he wrote down which, the entiere Muslim nation could never go astray. Every sin and every misfortune of the Islamic nation is the fault of Umar, because if he had not prevented the Prophet from writing down the document, none of the sins would be committed.

The sahaba of the Nabi Isa , by the way, were also not ALL the "best of people". He was betrayed by one of his closest sahabi, Judas. Judas sold Nabi Isa for 30 pieces of silver. But his other apostles were good. So all of the sahaba of Nabi Isa were not good. "Kulluhum NOT Adool"

So, in the end, with the examples of the sahaba of Nabi Musa and Nabi Isa , all we can conclude that not all of their sahaba were good. Among them were good, and bad.

....Which by the way, is the Shia view of the Sahaba of the Prophet (saaw).

Thanks for proving our point Dagga. Its been immensely enjoyable to debate with you.