270 replies to this topic

[ateef]

Ali Musaaa :), on 26 September 2012 - 06:43 AM, said:

I never said what he said in the past was right, I said something positive about him instead of backbiting him (astagfirallah).

You did not say he was wrong, you Ignored....

and you could say about >>> just the truth <<<<also...something positive,

I told you to judge..OK...

[Ali Musaaa :)]

Just the truth, on 26 September 2012 - 06:34 AM, said:

ALI MUSAAA

You wouldn't knw what justice is, even if it slapped you in the face. How many times has he insulted me calling me a retard time and time again.

His mouth has nothing but filth in it yet you remain silent when it comes to him so because you are unjust

This is so childish, if he calls you a name why do you respond by calling him one? What are we, 5?

I've stopped commenting on these threads as they go around and around in circles for years... But why is it so hard to just respect each other?

How does that make me unjust? I'm not the ShiaChat profanity policeman.

Just the truth, on 26 September 2012 - 06:34 AM, said:

you can...... SUCK IT TOO Lol

Salaam 'alaykum

ateef, on 26 September 2012 - 06:47 AM, said:

You did not say he was wrong, you Ignored....

and you could say about >>> just the truth <<<<also...something positive,

I told you to judge..OK...

I think he was wrong, is that better?

Just for truth is my Brother in this world and the next, insha'Allah. Is that better?

[ateef]

Ali Musaaa :), on 26 September 2012 - 06:54 AM, said:

This is so childish, if he calls you a name why do you respond by calling him one? What are we, 5?

I've stopped commenting on these threads as they go around and around in circles for years... But why is it so hard to just respect each other?

How does that make me unjust? I'm not the ShiaChat profanity policeman.



Salaam 'alaykum

See alimusa...Just the truth Said something bad and to you and you replied in such a nice way..
Thats nicer...

Now, When you have two people of the same kind, Judge equally...

When you speak good abt rasul, speak abt just the truth too...

if You strike something bad abt just the truth, do the same with rasul...

place yourself in their shoes and think...

and you will understand only if you not one eyed!!!

Yeah much Nicer, We are All Brothers In faith..

Salam and peace

@ just the truth....

This is so childish, if he calls you a name why do you respond by calling him one? What are we, 5?

Here he advised you something good...See

He sent peace upon you, and considers you as a brother in this world and also hereafter...


@Just the truth !!! How you feeling now after Ali's reply????

Edited by ateef, 26 September 2012 - 07:23 AM.

[ateef]

[ateef]

Sigh No reply...No Problem, Someday the reconcilation will be at its peak...Hopefully

[al-`Ajal Ya Imaam]

Just the truth, on 26 September 2012 - 03:37 AM, said:

ALAJALYALMAM

1. I can see you have no limits in your misinterpretation of the Quran, you think you can play with it like it's some toy. I will not waste any more time with you. Do not believe for a second that this is some victory for you but I can see whatever answer I give you will twist, so there I'd no point

2. All Imams are equal in rank and status to Prophet Muhammad (s.a. w). (Usool Kaafi, Vol. 1, p. 270)

What the kaafir took from our books does not really matter because they have the same disease as you Shia it's called MISINTERPRETATION. you will find kuffar looking at quranic verses and twisting their meanings but that's fine because that's what they have done from the start and they will carry on doing that till the end.

3. You are missing the point I said Shia have always turned their backs last minute. Let me give you an example since you mentioned muslim ibn aqil, have you even read the story of this great personality or are you just ranting on.

I will make it short.

Muslim ibn aqil went to kufa on the request of imam Hussein once he got their he hand the allegiance of thousands buy the mood all of a sudden changed and he was deserted and left on his own he walked through the streets of kufa saying I am Muslim ibn aqil please take me in until a women felt pity for him, he was sold out by some kid and was martyred while Shia stool back and watched

1. Lol, Ad Hominem again and again, but no problem, it's your choice on what you want to do, but I'll conclude on the point that Allah has said each and every letter in the Qur'an for a special purpose, you can call it "misinterpretation" if you want, but it won't change the reality.

2. Basic Ilm Hadith skills you should know if you're going to bring Ahadith that contradicts our basic beliefs, then the Hadith is thrown out. And like I said Al Kafi is not a book built with the intent to be Sahih, it was written to be a book containing everything, Sahih, Dha'eef, Hasan, Qawi, Muwatthaq, apart from that, Sahih is a subjective term, not objective. Now let's see the Hadith you bring up, shall we. I have Kitaab Al Kaafi downloaded, so I checked it, the first volume page 270, Dimishqiya edition with gradings of the Hadith. Now there were two Hadith on that page, the one you have given me is one part of the whole Hadith, whereas the continuation is not there, this is the original:

• ÚöÏóøÉñ ãöäú ÃóÕúÍóÇÈöäóÇ Úóäú ÃóÍúãóÏó Èúäö ãõÍóãóøÏò Úóäö ÇáúÍõÓóíúäö Èúäö ÓóÚöíÏò Úóäú ÚóÈúÏö Çááóøåö Èúäö ÈóÍúÑò Úóäö ÇÈúäö ãõÓúßóÇäó Úóäú ÚóÈúÏö ÇáÑóøÍúãóäö Èúäö ÃóÈöí ÚóÈúÏö Çááóøåö Úóäú ãõÍóãóøÏö Èúäö ãõÓúáöãò ÞóÇáó ÓóãöÚúÊõ ÃóÈóÇ ÚóÈúÏö Çááóøåö ( Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã ) íóÞõæáõ ÇáúÃóÆöãóøÉõ ÈöãóäúÒöáóÉö ÑóÓõæáö Çááóøåö ( Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå ) ÅöáóøÇ Ãóäóøåõãú áóíúÓõæÇ ÈöÃóäúÈöíóÇÁó æó áóÇ íóÍöáõø áóåõãú ãöäó ÇáäöøÓóÇÁö ãóÇ íóÍöáõø áöáäóøÈöíöø ( Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå ) ÝóÃóãóøÇ ãóÇ ÎóáóÇ Ðóáößó Ýóåõãú Ýöíåö ÈöãóäúÒöáóÉö ÑóÓõæáö Çááóøåö ( Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå

Now the proper translation of the part you're focussing on "íóÞõæáõ ÇáúÃóÆöãóøÉõ ÈöãóäúÒöáóÉö ÑóÓõæáö Çááóøåö" is actually: "He said Imams are in the status of the Messenger of Allah (this is where you cut off but the Hadith keeps going) except they are not prophets.." Telling us that they have a holy status like the Prophet of Allah however they were not Prophets, they did not receive divine inspiration, they are not here to bring a new message, etc. Oh, and funny thing, this Hadith is graded as Dha'eef.

And, I would ask you to open up some of the books of your Hadith right, this is what is literally written there a lot. Though a lot of the things did not happen, like the massacre of Bani Qurayza, it still exists in books, thus you cannot say that our books are full of filth while your's are great books of knowledge.

3. Again, see you ignored what I said, there is the literal meaning to Shi'a, and the meaning attributed to us. When those men of Kufa invited Imam Hussain to them, they invited him as a leader who could help them against Yazid. When Ibn Ziyaad (La'nat Allahi Alayhi) threatened to torture and kill them, those who just took the Imam as a leader left Muslim. Also many Shi'a were imprisoned while this happened, like Muqtar, Maytham, Hani (who was killed), and others were plotting on how to escape and join the Imam such as Muslim Ibn Awsaja, Habib Ibn Madahir, Burayr Ibn Al Qayn, and there were those who were incapable of doing anything since they were overpowered and a rebellion would have destroyed the Shi'a of Kufa and Iraq, these later formed a group called the Tawwabeen who were sorry that they were unable to join the Imam and fought later.

ateef, on 26 September 2012 - 03:39 AM, said:

I need the chapter No for this Can You???

Doesn't matter it's a Dha'eef Hadith.

[Just the truth]

You can deny everything you want I have plenty of Hadith to fire at you but il hold back for now, il leave you with one thought and be honest with yourself.

Shia believe imams are higher in status than any other prophet (according to you except ours) is that true be honest?

[PureEthics]

Just the truth, on 27 September 2012 - 04:48 AM, said:

You can deny everything you want I have plenty of Hadith to fire at you but il hold back for now, il leave you with one thought and be honest with yourself.

Shia believe imams are higher in status than any other prophet (according to you except ours) is that true be honest?

LMAO You just contradicted yourself, before you said imams have the same status as prophets....BUT YOU CHOSE TO CUT OFF THE HADITH...

When we bring your hadiths we bring the whole thing in arabic and with page numbers and everything. Just like you wahabi say, that hadith is weak, or you translated it wrong.

YOU STILL HAVNT SHOWN ME THE PROOF FROM YOUR PREVIOUS POSTS......WITH THE AUTHOR PAGE NUMBER, SERIAL OF THE BOOK, IN ARABIC, WITH WITH THE WHOLE PAGE......ONCE AGAIN YOU WILL LOOK PAST MY POST AND SAY SOME RANDOM THING WITHOUT POSTING THE HADITH

[al-`Ajal Ya Imaam]

Just the truth, on 27 September 2012 - 04:48 AM, said:

You can deny everything you want I have plenty of Hadith to fire at you but il hold back for now, il leave you with one thought and be honest with yourself.

Shia believe imams are higher in status than any other prophet (according to you except ours) is that true be honest?

Lol just like I thought, okay "hold back" lol, as if this is some sort of fight.

Again refer to 2:124 to get your answer:

• And when his Lord tried Ibrahim with certain words, he fulfilled them. He said: Surely I will make you an Imam of men. Ibrahim said: And of my offspring? My covenant does not include the unjust, said He.

This time the first part of the Ayat, "He fulfilled them. He said: Surely I will make you an Imam of men." Now before the trial/test Ibrahim was a "Rasool" (Messenger), after he passed the test on the mount to sacrifice Isma'il then he became an Imam. Would Allah downgrade him, or upgrade him? Now just as an end note, we believe they were higher in status than every Prophet, except the last one, Prophet Mohammad , as he had a special designated position over all creations.

Okay, now how about we show Bukhari, here are is a good list of contradictions inside it.

[PureEthics]

Wow brother thanks for the file, i wish i can download it.....so MANY CONTRADICTIONS!

[al-`Ajal Ya Imaam]

pureethics, on 27 September 2012 - 12:41 PM, said:

Wow brother thanks for the file, i wish i can download it.....so MANY CONTRADICTIONS!

Yeah man, I honestly can't believe that this is what passes off as the "Great Sahih Books"

[ateef]

AlAjalYaImam, on 27 September 2012 - 03:14 PM, said:

Yeah man, I honestly can't believe that this is what passes off as the "Great Sahih Books"

What About Your books, Which they remove contradictions from????

[al-`Ajal Ya Imaam]

ateef, on 28 September 2012 - 08:57 AM, said:

What About Your books, Which they remove contradictions from????

Thing is we don't say Sahih Al Kaafi, Sahih Al Bihaar Al Anwaar, however you guys do..

[PureEthics]

OUR IMAMS SAID, "IF YOU HEAR ANY HADITH WITH OUR NAMES IN IT, COMPARE IT WITH THE QURAN IF THEY DONT EQUAL THEN THE HADITH ISNT GOOD!"

[ateef]

AlAjalYaImam, on 28 September 2012 - 10:48 AM, said:

Yeah man, I honestly can't believe that this is what passes off as the "Great Sahih Books"

Thing is we don't say Sahih Al Kaafi, Sahih Al Bihaar Al Anwaar, however you guys do..

Remove The Viel...See What You Speaking,

I asked

What About Your books, Which they remove contradictions from????

When You Remove Contradictions from their books, they remove from yours too from your books.

Sahih Means Genuine

Yours are genuine for yours,theirs to them...

Do you agree any book among you is not genuine(Top Order..???

Now There Exist Two Things,

One Of them is told by Pure Ethics..But the reason Allah Knows the Best...

Quote

OUR IMAMS SAID, "IF YOU HEAR ANY HADITH WITH OUR NAMES IN IT, COMPARE IT WITH THE QURAN IF THEY DONT EQUAL THEN THE HADITH ISNT GOOD!"

1. Holy Quran
2. Fiqh Of Hadeeth

I am maybe missing more things,

But Things like Tawheed and Our Shahada Is One Should be Made Strong...

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Secondly you refer me in this as a Sunni by commenting (however you guys do.)

If I refered to you as a Shia because
Your Profile is

• Alajalyalamam
  
• Religion:Muslim-Shia Ithna Asheri Usooli
  
• Interests:Don't worry about it

1. Your Religion is Muslim-Shia Ithna Asheri Usooli

    Mine Is Islam...Not Sunni Islam, Or whatever

2.You carry a Pic Of Imam which is forbidden

   I do Not do That..Never...

(This Pic was used as a pic of Prophet Muhammadh in a local daily, which caused tensions in our area)

What I am trying to portray to you is Evil Can Exceed its limits if we do not adhere...

To be frank and honest, let me tell you,

3.It May be strange,I have seen others doing this about Sects,

But My Parents and GrandParents..

Both Maternal Side are Muslims and Even Paternal Side...But I was never told I am a Sunni Muslim and all, Both The Sides.. .Strang...
..I have been hearing fom outside...

Initially I was little bit damaged with such things...But then I could well understand whats happening...

And My Maternal Side is Excellant...

My Father respected all Religions..Maybe that blood from my family stop's me being like you all, who do not even spare their brothers...

I really Have No Idea..No clue, whats this on earth???

[ateef]

Quote

All Imams are equal in rank and status to Prophet Muhammad (s.a. w). (Usool Kaafi, Vol. 1, p. 270)

It matters...Things should matter

If It is A Dhaef hadeeth which one is it???

Munqati.Mualaq and etc etc...What Do You consider???

Edited by ateef, 28 September 2012 - 02:31 PM.

[ateef]

You Can read This from nahajul balagah


"Nearest to the prophets are those persons who have to those prophets and obey them".
Saying this, Imam Ali cited a passage from the Holy Qur'an 'Best liked by Abraham and
nearest to him were the people who obeyed him'. He further said, "That the present times are
the times of our Holy Prophet and his faithful followers. The best friend of our Holy Prophet
is he who, though not related to him, obeys the orders of Allah and his greatest enemy is the
man who though related to him, disobeys Allah '.

And you learn from this,

We, Ahlul Bayt (chosen descendants of the Holy Prophet), hold such central and
balancing position in religion that those who are deficient in understanding and acting upon
its principles, will have to come to us for reformation, and those who are overdoing it have
got to learn moderation from us.

Anyways, Lets keep peace

Salam.

[al-`Ajal Ya Imaam]

ateef, on 28 September 2012 - 01:57 PM, said:

Remove The Viel...See What You Speaking,

I asked

What About Your books, Which they remove contradictions from????

When You Remove Contradictions from their books, they remove from yours too from your books.

Sahih Means Genuine

Yours are genuine for yours,theirs to them...

Do you agree any book among you is not genuine(Top Order..???

Now There Exist Two Things,

One Of them is told by Pure Ethics..But the reason Allah Knows the Best...

When a contradiction was removed it was because it went against what the majority said to answer your question, and this was while the books were being made as well. However the contradictions in your books still exist after they were made, and the books were made to be Sahih.

And Sahih means Authentic, not genuine. Though how books are useful and interesting, they are not 100% Sahih, nor were they made to be Sahih, for example, Bihaar Al Anwaar is every Hadith Allamah Majlisi could find in his lifetime that went back to a Ma'soom, and Kitaab Al Kaafi is every Hadith Sheikh Al Kulayni ever heard in his lifetime, they were not written to be Sahih, but to be everything for us to see.

[AliHussainFaraji]

pureethics, on 27 September 2012 - 12:41 PM, said:

Wow brother thanks for the file, i wish i can download it.....so MANY CONTRADICTIONS!

Here you go:

min.us/mContradictionsInSahihBukhari

Unfortunately, it lacks the same presentation and some of the words are stuck together, but it's there if you want it.

[ateef]

AlAjalYaImam, on 28 September 2012 - 03:09 PM, said:

When a contradiction was removed it was because it went against what the majority said to answer your question, and this was while the books were being made as well. However the contradictions in your books still exist after they were made, and the books were made to be Sahih.

And Sahih means Authentic, not genuine. Though how books are useful and interesting, they are not 100% Sahih, nor were they made to be Sahih, for example, Bihaar Al Anwaar is every Hadith Allamah Majlisi could find in his lifetime that went back to a Ma'soom, and Kitaab Al Kaafi is every Hadith Sheikh Al Kulayni ever heard in his lifetime, they were not written to be Sahih, but to be everything for us to see.

You ignore a Good part and reply!!!And Omit....

Authentic and genuine...

Do you think, a person like me will completely rely on a book which says Sahih or any other name..???

No, I ain't like that.

Anyways you concentrate on right part.

[al-`Ajal Ya Imaam]

ateef, on 29 September 2012 - 04:11 AM, said:

You ignore a Good part and reply!!!And Omit....

Authentic and genuine...

Do you think, a person like me will completely rely on a book which says Sahih or any other name..???

No, I ain't like that.

Anyways you concentrate on right part.

Lol, I never said you believed in it, I said Sunnis will defend to death the fact that their books are great and our books are tired BS, that our books are awful and their books are the best, that they have the "Sahih Kitaab" and we just have our's, however when you see such things, you see the true worth of those books..