6 replies to this topic

[Ibn-Ahmed Aliyy Herz]

If anyone is familiar with the classical arguments for the existence of Allah by classical shia ulema it would be appreciated.

How many are there,and how do the syllogisms run?

[Babruk Aijaz]

Existence of Allah can not be proved with dialogues, same as non existence of Allah can not be proved with dialogues. Basic thing of every natural thing is BELIEF  Time, Space, Life, Nature, Thinking, Wisdom, Respect are some thing which actually no where in this world but we use and refer them in our daily life because we created common BELIEF on these things internationally. But no one can define them or provide example about them even no one can tell you meaning of these words (we only can describe them ). Same like that whether you believe on Allah or not its upon your BELIEF other wise no one in this world can provide you riddance of existence or not existence.

[pakistanyar]

http://www.tashayyu....b-al-hadi-ashar

the first part of Al-bab-al-hadi-ashar Is what comes to mind. The actual PDF for the entire book is at the end of the page. But I think you will find arguments and reasoning that were more suited for his own period and not some holy grail arguments. Allama Hilli was around from 1250 - 1325 according to wiki so pretty classical.

I actually skipped his explanation on "the existence of God", its hard to read and i think it requires a good understanding of theology and logic. What's worth reading is section 2 -4, very solid tawhid, very good insight into what we believe about God. Also easy to read.


And here's a classical opinion on Argueing over God from Sudoqs " A [Edited Out]te Creed"

THE BELIEF CONCERNING ABSTENTION FROM DISPUTATION (jadal) AND CONTENTION ( mira')
ABOUT Allah

Says the Shaykh Abu Ja'far, may Allah have mercy on him: Disputation (jadal) [105] concerning Allah is prohibited, because it leads to that which does not befit Him.100 And Imam Ja'far as-Sadiq was asked concerning the saying of Allah, the Mighty and Glorious: "And that thy Lord, He is the goal" [53,42]. He said: When con- versation turns towards (a discussion of) Allah, then refrain (from speech). And as-Sadiq used to say: O son of Adam! if a bird were to eat your heart, it would not satisfy it! and as for your sight-if the eye of a needle were to be placed upon it, it would be darkened. And you desire (despite such insignificance) to know the sover- eignty of the heavens and the earth! If you are truthful, here is the sun, one of Allah's creations; fill your eye with it, and then it will be as you say.
And vain disputation is prohibited concerning all matters of faith. The Prince of Believers, on whom be peace, has said: He who seeks after religion by disputation will become a heretic (zindiq). 101

And Imam Ja'far as-Sadiq has said that the people who indulge in vain disputations (as-habu'l-kalam)102 will perish, and the Muslims will be saved. Verily the Muslims are noble (najib, pl. nujaba'). Now as for controversy against opponents by means of the word of Allah and the Prophet and the Imams, or by means of the significance of their sayings, it is allowed without restriction to him who is well-versed in theology (kalam), but is not per- mitted (mahzur) to him who is not well-versed in it and totally forbidden (muharram).
And Imam Ja'far as-Sadiq said: Controvert the people with my sayings, and if they overcome you by argument, it will be I who will be controverted, not you. It is related from him that he said: Speaking in (defence of) the truth is better than silence in respect of falsehood. And it is related that Abu'l-Hudhayl al- Allaf said to Hisham b. al-Hakam: I wish to have a controversy with you on the condition that if you overcome me, I shall adopt your faith; and if I overcome you, you must accept mine. Hisham said [106]: You have not dealt justly with me. Nay, I will have a controversy with you on the condition that if I overcome you, you will accept my faith; but if you overcome me, I shall refer to my Imam (for a proper answer). 103

[Ibn-Ahmed Aliyy Herz]

Anyone have anymore scholars/links?

[ChattingwithShias]

Ayatollah Sayyid Mohammad Baqir Sadr wrote an awesome book on the existence of God, and the truth of the Prophet Mohammad (s) and Islam. He has both a modern argument based on the scientific method, and also a classical philosophical argument for the existence of the Creator.

This book was really instrumental in strengthening my faith. I ordered a hard copy and have it at home, but it is online. Here is a link to it...

http://www.al-islam.org/revealer/

[alialiali]

debates are for oneself and worldly, if god wants to show someone the truth , it will be even without a humans attempts.

you cannot believe in something fully without seeing, this is human nature, but to do this by god you have to be a chosen one, a blessed one,,, there are very few that exist.

[ShiaPoet]

Salam

Here is a very good and classical one: http://www.al-islam....utes/index.html

Wassalam
May Allah Guide us all