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Fsa/snc Do Not Want Kurdish People To Gain Rights


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#1 The Canuck

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 02:43 AM

Check out the double standards.  The Free Rebel Army, funded and armed by Saudi/Qatar, UK, USA, Israeil, and supported by Turkey, do not want the Kurds to even be recognized.   This is the SNC, based in Turkey, they rejected to even say that Kurds exist.

So they claim they want their rights, but it's not okay for others to have rights or to at least be recognized and gain a little bit of rights.


BBC:
http://www.bbc.co.uk...e-east-18706697
Syria opposition fails to overcome differences in Cairo

Syrian opposition groups have agreed on a general plan for the way forward in the country at a meeting in Cairo that exposed their deep divisions.
Delegates set out how a transitional period would work and what they would do if they managed to oust President Bashar al-Assad.
But they failed to reach an agreement on forming a unified body to represent them in negotiations with world powers.

At one point scuffles broke out when a Kurdish delegation walked out.
In Syria, at least seven people were reportedly killed on Wednesday.
The UK-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights said four civilians had died in Maarat al-Numan in Idlib province, and that there had been clashes south of Damascus near a branch of Air Force Intelligence.
The Local Co-ordination Committees, an activist network, put the nationwide death toll at 60, including 12 people in Deraa and 13 in Idlib.
Meanwhile, the pressure group Human Rights Watch (HRW) has accused the Jordanian authorities of discriminating between Syrian nationals and Palestinians fleeing the violence.

HRW said in a statement that interviews with Syrian and Palestinian refugees indicated that Jordan had "forcibly returned some newly arriving Palestinians from Syria and threatened others with deportation".
Jordanian Information Minister Sameeh Maaytah dismissed the allegations as "totally baseless".
In another development, a Syrian general defected to the opposition and fled to Turkey on Wednesday, bringing the total number of generals who have crossed into Turkey to at least 15.
'Scandal'
The BBC's Jon Leyne in Cairo reports that Syria's opposition is notoriously divided, so it is hard to say whether the agreements or the disagreements which emerged from the meeting in the Egyptian capital were more significant.

A final statement read by opposition leader Kamal al-Labuani said delegates "agreed that the political solution has to start by the fall of the regime represented in Bashar al-Assad and the icons of his power and calls for an immediate halt of violence committed by the Syrian regime".
In one document, the delegates set out their plans for a transitional period, including an interim government and parliament. This had been called for by the Action Group for Syria, a body representing world powers.
They also outlined how they would reform the armed forces, set up a commission to investigate crimes against the Syrian people, and dissolve the ruling Baath Party, whose members would be allowed to help run the country as long as they did not have "hands stained with blood".
A second document said the new post-Assad Syria would have a "republican, democratic, civilian, pluralistic" system of government. They also pledged to support economic and social justice.
However, the major point of disagreement was over the powers to be granted to a committee that would act as a single point of contact for the international community, recalling Libya's National Transitional Council.

The main opposition coalition, the Syrian National Council (SNC), reportedly insisted that it should act solely as a co-ordinating body without any leadership powers.
Earlier on Tuesday, there were scuffles, punches were thrown and women wept when a Kurdish group stormed out of the meeting after an argument over whether the Kurds should be recognised as a minority within Syria.
"We will not return to the conference and that is our final line. We are a people as we have language and religion and that is what defines a people," said Morshed Mashouk, a leading member of the Syrian Kurdish National Council.
Some delegates shouted "scandal, scandal" as the Kurds left, while one young activist alleged: "This is a faked withdrawal seeking to make the conference fail."

One activist group, the Syrian Revolution General Commission (SRGC), had earlier pulled out, saying it refused to engage in "political disputes which play with the fate of our people and our revolution".
Our correspondent says all this will frustrate opposition supporters inside Syria, and their allies outside, and provide comfort to President Assad.
However, it could be argued that the Cairo meeting was largely irrelevant, as events in Syria build a terrible momentum of their own, he adds.

-----------------------


Kurdish leaders: Syrian opposition conference in Cairo has failed  4.7.2012  










Posted Image
Dr Abdulhakim Bashar, secretary-general of the Kurdish Democratic Party in Syria and Public relations chief for the Kurdish National Council.
Posted Image
Shalal Gado, the politburo member of the Kurdish Leftist Party of Syria. See Related Links
July 4, 2012

ERBIL-Hewlêr, Kurdistan region 'Iraq', — The recent Syrian opposition's conference in Cairo did not target its goal for unifying the voice of Syrian opposition parties, Kurdish political leaders said.

The two-day conference, organized by Arab League in Egyptian capital, which gathered 250 representatives from Syrian opposition parties as well as a number of Arab foreign ministers, was concluded last night.

Kurds boycotted the conference on the brink of concluding the conference because the conference failed in unifying the voice of the opposition forces, said Abdul-Kareem Bashar, foreign relations chief of the Kurdish National Council of Syria (KNCS).

Bashar said the National Council of Syria ( NCS, the major opposition force) "withdrew from the agreement and promises it made before holding Cairo conference."

The KNCS and NCS had agreed before the conference that the former should state in the final communiqué of the event that Kurds are a distinct ethnic group in Syria who are living on their land and in their own country and enjoy their own history and identity,www.ekurd.net said Shalal Gado, the politburo member of the Kurdish Leftist Party of Syria.

Gado said but the NCS did not comply with its promise and " it did not refer to Kurds at all.


"This shows that the Syrian opposition does not want to admit to ethnic rights of Kurds and this is not in the interest of the Syrian opposition and revolution.

"We stress that the Syrian opposition conference has failed in targeting its goal."

It is almost 16 months Syria has been swept by violence as the security forces try to suppress the public protests which call for regime change. Tens of thousands have been killed since March 2011 in the Syrian uprising.



http://www.ekurd.net...yriakurd527.htm


Quote

....

A Syrian Kurdish group quit the meeting, provoking mayhem and cries of "scandal, scandal" from delegates. Women wept as men traded blows, and staff of the hotel used for the meeting hurriedly removed tables and chairs as the scuffles spread.

"We will not return to the conference and that is our final line. We are a people as we have language and religion and that is what defines a people," said Morshed Mashouk, a leading member of the Kurdish group which walked out.

"The Kurds withdrew because the conference rejected an item that says the Kurdish people must be recognised," said Abdel Aziz Othman of the National Kurdish Council. "This is unfair and we will no longer accept to be marginalised."

The outburst lasted only a few minutes, and some said it had been stage managed to get the Kurds on television.

When one Kurd screamed, "Nothing has changed, we need to be listened to" as he walked out of the conference room, in front of cameras,www.ekurd.net a young activist followed him shouting: "This is a faked withdrawal seeking to make the conference fail."

...

Edited by Mujahid, 06 July 2012 - 02:44 AM.

"one amongst you believes (truly) till one likes for his brother or for his neighbour that which he loves for himself."   Prophet Muhammad (saw)

Imam Ali (as) on the Prophet Muhammad(saw): Fear Allah, to your affairs in order, and maintain good relations amongst yourselves for I have heard the Prophet (saw)say "Improvement of mutual differences is better than general praying and fasting".

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#2 Gypsy

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 06:15 AM

Kurdish people should have the freedom to practice their culture, language and faith freely without intimidation.

Shame on you Turkey!

#3 bolbol

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 06:45 AM

Kurdish people are being massacred left and right by the Turks for decades.
Perhaps it would be better if you read about the Armenian genocide.

Turkey is a puritan, ideological state that evolves around survival of the fittest in terms of 'peoples', if you understand this, you can then proceed to understand why it supports Syrian gangsters to secure its own territories (Syrian land still occupied by Turkey), in addition to Kurds and other minorities who are persecuted on a regular day.

#4 ShiaBen

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 09:03 PM

Don't know if this is true or not. But in general I've heard from local people that most of the Kurds in Syria support Assad and are also proud Syrians  (not caught up with this PKK separatist [Edited Out]). They're allegedly more loyal to Syria than Kurds are to Iraq, Iran, and Turkey.

#5 covertiman

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 09:51 PM

Sometimes I think Turkey is the non-Arab Saudi Arabia...

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 12:26 AM

View PostShiaBen, on 06 July 2012 - 09:03 PM, said:

Don't know if this is true or not. But in general I've heard from local people that most of the Kurds in Syria support Assad and are also proud Syrians  (not caught up with this PKK separatist [Edited Out]). They're allegedly more loyal to Syria than Kurds are to Iraq, Iran, and Turkey.

There is a spectrum of opinions from Kurds in Syria and elsewhere. Kurdish separatist movements are a response to government repression of their language and culture, which is presumably why you see Kurdish resistance is stronger in Iraq than Syria. If anyone has any information from reliable sources (not just in an attempt to validate Bashar al Assad) it would be interesting to read.

Barzani has recently warmed up to Turkey and I want to gauge the reaction of Iraqi Kurds (who have an instilled distrust of Turkey) to this new alliance of sorts. Granted, Barzani once allied himself with Saddam and remained in power.  :donno:

#7 Qa'im

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 01:05 AM

View PostZahratul_Islam, on 07 July 2012 - 12:26 AM, said:

There is a spectrum of opinions from Kurds in Syria and elsewhere. Kurdish separatist movements are a response to government repression of their language and culture, which is presumably why you see Kurdish resistance is stronger in Iraq than Syria. If anyone has any information from reliable sources (not just in an attempt to validate Bashar al Assad) it would be interesting to read.

Barzani has recently warmed up to Turkey and I want to gauge the reaction of Iraqi Kurds (who have an instilled distrust of Turkey) to this new alliance of sorts. Granted, Barzani once allied himself with Saddam and remained in power.  :donno:

Much of the Kurdish population in Syria does not have Syrian citizenship. This ethnic nationalism was pre-Assad, but it continued under Hafez and Bashar, and I think 20% or so of Kurds in Syria have no citizenship. This makes things very difficult for travel. The Kurdish population is split on the revolution, and are reluctant to partake in it because there's a question of what the revolution would mean for Kurdish independence. Most Kurds are against Assad, and because of that, some of their leaders have been targeted and killed by the regime (like Mashaal Tammo). However, there are some Kurds who believe independence would be thwarted by a new regime, and these do not take part in the protests or the armed conflict. The SNC leader is a Kurd, though probably not in favour of the separatist agenda.

Edited by Qa'im, 07 July 2012 - 01:05 AM.

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Muhammad al-Baqir said: On the Day of Resurrection, a pavilion of fire will be made in which the supporters of the oppressors will be put, and nails of iron will be made for them scratching with it beginning with their hearts. So they will say: Our Lord, did we not worship You? He said: So He will say: Yea, however you were supporters for the oppressors.


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#8 ShiaBen

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 01:29 AM

View PostZahratul_Islam, on 07 July 2012 - 12:26 AM, said:

There is a spectrum of opinions from Kurds in Syria and elsewhere. Kurdish separatist movements are a response to government repression of their language and culture, which is presumably why you see Kurdish resistance is stronger in Iraq than Syria. If anyone has any information from reliable sources (not just in an attempt to validate Bashar al Assad) it would be interesting to read.

Barzani has recently warmed up to Turkey and I want to gauge the reaction of Iraqi Kurds (who have an instilled distrust of Turkey) to this new alliance of sorts. Granted, Barzani once allied himself with Saddam and remained in power.  :donno:

Zahratul. I'm curious, are there any other major tribal family-factions outside of the Barzanis and Talabanis when it comes to Iraqi Kurdistan?

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 01:35 PM

View PostShiaBen, on 07 July 2012 - 01:29 AM, said:

Zahratul. I'm curious, are there any other major tribal family-factions outside of the Barzanis and Talabanis when it comes to Iraqi Kurdistan?
Honestly, Iraqi Kurdistan is even more tribal than the rest of Iraq, although I am not sure if its more tribal than some of the rural areas of Iraq. I just know that it is VERY tribal and that there are many family based factions that exist. There are a lot of big names in Iraqi Kurdistan. I didn't even realize how important family name was until my first visit when I was treated with some deference and respect at a local police station simply because of my family name on my mother's side. Mind you, I was there because someone had reported their suspicions about me being an "Iranian spy." :dry:

If you are curious as to whether or not these families are formidable opponents to the Barzani regime then the answer to that is likely that they are not for the following reasons

1) Both tribes, especially Barzani, have been too central to the fight for Kurdish independence to have another tribe oppose them in such an overt manner. Barzani has remained in relatively popular control of the government for decades.
2) Their control of the government is unmatched and the government is such a bloated bureaucratic that it has been subjected to nepotism and had its high ranks stuffed with those loyal to the ruling families
3) their control of state wealth and resources is tight

I will double check with a friend who is more well versed in Iraqi Kurdish politics and update the post if I find anything that conflict this assessment.


View PostQa, on 07 July 2012 - 01:05 AM, said:

Much of the Kurdish population in Syria does not have Syrian citizenship. This ethnic nationalism was pre-Assad, but it continued under Hafez and Bashar, and I think 20% or so of Kurds in Syria have no citizenship. This makes things very difficult for travel. The Kurdish population is split on the revolution, and are reluctant to partake in it because there's a question of what the revolution would mean for Kurdish independence. Most Kurds are against Assad, and because of that, some of their leaders have been targeted and killed by the regime (like Mashaal Tammo). However, there are some Kurds who believe independence would be thwarted by a new regime, and these do not take part in the protests or the armed conflict. The SNC leader is a Kurd, though probably not in favour of the separatist agenda.

Thanks for the perspective. I have heard of lot of conflicting reports about the position of Kurds so it makes sense they are divided on this issue. Some percentages would be nice.

Edited by Zahratul_Islam, 07 July 2012 - 01:37 PM.


#10 Noura_Shi'a

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 01:42 PM

View PostGypsy, on 06 July 2012 - 06:15 AM, said:

Kurdish people should have the freedom to practice their culture, language and faith freely without intimidation.

Shame on you Turkey!

In my opinion, the conflict between kurds and the others have gone too far. Im a kurdish person and i do know that this war going on in Turkey is not about the conflict between kurds and turks anymore. Everything nowadays r about power, and this does also include some of the kurdish leaders. I can for example name the kurdish political party BDP, which mostly doesnt accept agreement and makes the kurdish people not stand up for peace (this is in MY views, from what i see and hear). We kurds dont literaly have the right representatives!
And we also see that kurds these last years in Turkey got rights they never could have thought about for 10 years ago!

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#11 Aarash_Australia

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 02:22 PM

View PostZahratul_Islam, on 07 July 2012 - 12:26 AM, said:

There is a spectrum of opinions from Kurds in Syria and elsewhere. Kurdish separatist movements are a response to government repression of their language and culture, which is presumably why you see Kurdish resistance is stronger in Iraq than Syria. If anyone has any information from reliable sources (not just in an attempt to validate Bashar al Assad) it would be interesting to read.

Barzani has recently warmed up to Turkey and I want to gauge the reaction of Iraqi Kurds (who have an instilled distrust of Turkey) to this new alliance of sorts. Granted, Barzani once allied himself with Saddam and remained in power.  :donno:

I spent several months in Iraqi Kurdistan.

They fear/distrust/hate the Turks as much as ever, but they recognize it's good business.

#12 Aarash_Australia

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 02:27 PM

View PostShiaBen, on 07 July 2012 - 01:29 AM, said:

Zahratul. I'm curious, are there any other major tribal family-factions outside of the Barzanis and Talabanis when it comes to Iraqi Kurdistan?

The biggest Bahdini tribes are: Harki, Zebari, Mirani, Baradosti...

There are not many Sorani tribes left, and they are mostly dispersed, but the biggest are: Barzinji, Jaff, Baban...


I may have forgotten a couple important ones...

#13 ShiaBen

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 02:28 PM

Interesting input Zahrat. Thanks.

#14 covertiman

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 03:40 PM

View PostQa, on 07 July 2012 - 01:05 AM, said:

Much of the Kurdish population in Syria does not have Syrian citizenship. This ethnic nationalism was pre-Assad, but it continued under Hafez and Bashar, and I think 20% or so of Kurds in Syria have no citizenship. This makes things very difficult for travel. The Kurdish population is split on the revolution, and are reluctant to partake in it because there's a question of what the revolution would mean for Kurdish independence. Most Kurds are against Assad, and because of that, some of their leaders have been targeted and killed by the regime (like Mashaal Tammo). However, there are some Kurds who believe independence would be thwarted by a new regime, and these do not take part in the protests or the armed conflict. The SNC leader is a Kurd, though probably not in favour of the separatist agenda.

This is not only a problem for Kurds, correct? Other non-Syrian minorities do not have Syrian citizenship, however, Syria has opened their doors to them in the past.

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 04:48 PM

View PostShiaBen, on 07 July 2012 - 02:28 PM, said:

Interesting input Zahrat. Thanks.

Np :)



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