What? If this was really the case, you should be a full believer in God, for if all these things are specific, then ultimately, they are designed by a designer, i.e. God.
If I were a theist, I am quite certain I would believe it.
This is true, and it is unfortunate that I did not make it clear. Beethoven put the cords together, i.e. he designed the piece. He didn't design the piece to be beautiful though. That particular arrangement of cords by itself gave rise to beauty. It wasn't that the same symphony could be ugly for the human ear, but for Beethoven's beautiful "design".
The arrangemt of chords, gives rise to sounds which we find beautiful. The sounds are specific, and why we feel they are beautiful is specific too. Beauty itself, doesnt actually exist.
I am differentiating between the two. One where we can use the word "design" (even for God) and one where it does not make sense. For example, I may design a symbolism to show 1+1=2, but I don't design the actual mathematical operation. Nor does God "design" the truth. Truth is not arbitrary.
And with this, there is a difference between physical things, such as actions and events. And non existant things like 1+1=2. When we speak of creation, we are speaking of things that were actually created. Not non existent ideas.
God didnt exactly create 1+1=2. It doesnt exist. Ok, let me read back a bit and see if I can relate this point to your previous posts here.
ok so we have here.
"2. You write "All future actions were designed / included by God in His Creation.
" I agree with included
and not designed
. I find including an idea into the existing order is not the same as designing the idea."
"Light is in-itself luminous - God doesn't take a dark Light and make it luminous - God just brings "luminous Light" into existence."
This is a sketchy example, and isnt the same as something like saying. Even light isnt necessarily luminous. Luminosity is just a word that we made up to describe something that physically exists in a specific way.
1+1=2 is also something we just made up to describe something physical. So while God may not have designed non existent ideas like 1+1=2. He would have still designed the two objects that exist that allow us to make that equation. Along with the events that would lead to the existence of the objects that we use to make those ideas.
ok yes. Why would, lets say human action, be seperate from a human, as the number 2 is seperate from 2 physical objects? Or seperate as luminosity is from actual physical light.
Or are you saying that human chioce, is something we create, as we create number 2, or an idea like luminosity to describe things. God can create us, but not necessarily the choices we make just as he can create us, but not necessarily create the number 2 or luminosity.
Edited by Belial, 07 July 2012 - 11:32 AM.