Al-Mufeed, on 10 June 2012 - 06:37 PM, said:
Alamah majlisi's explanation makes perfect sense.
No it doesn't.
Shaikh al Islam Alamah Al Majlisi
explained what Shaikh Mufeed
ment in that quotation, he didnt mean that he did not believe in it, he ment that it can not be proven with out a doubt because the narrations for the shahadat of Imam Ali
, Sayida Fatimah, Imam Hassan, Imam Hussain, Imam Kazim and Imam Reza - are mutawatir, and there is no doubt in them- and even the sunnis atest to. He says however with the rest of them it can be doubted from the perspective of the sunnis since the reports are not mutawatir, hwoever then Alamah quotes a hadeeth from Imam Hassan
- Where he says "There is not from us (ahlulbayt) except that they are killed or poisoned"
First of all, you cannot establish the martyrdom of all the members of the ahlulbayt
up to Imam ar-Ridha
through Sunni narrations. Second of all, read what he says:
"It is highly probable that ar-Rida (`Ali ibn Musa) was poisoned, yet this cannot be confirmed. As for the others, there is no justification for the claim that they were either poisoned or murdered or killed through persecution, since the reports concerning this matter are extremely confused and there are no means of proving it definitely.
So when he says 'there is no justification', while correcting Saduq (so in a purely Shia context), he means that it can't be established through Sunni narrations?
In that case, what does it mean to say that it was highly probably that Imam ar-Ridha
was poisoned? That it can 'sort of' be established through Sunni narrations? Please.
"He (Imam al-Jawad) died in the month of Dhul al-Qa`da in the same year. It was said that he died as a result of poisoning but in my view no report has established that, and I bear witness to that.
He bears witness to the fact that no report establishes his poisoning, but what he meant was no Sunni report establishes it? Is this really what you think he meant?
Do you think that shaikh mufeed was some how deficient in his ability to reason.
No, not at all.
Let me ask you a simple question
Do you think that our Imams
just dropped dead.
Especially the last 3 Imams
before our 12th Imam. You think that they would of just dropped dead with no explanation in their mid 20s.
It doesn't make any sense.
As much as you may not want to believe it, it is indeed possible to get sick in your mid twenties and just die. Especially back then, it was very common.
It's obvious that Alamah Majlisi is correct (not to mention that we have narrations that all the a'imma are shaheed).
No, not from the words of Shaykh Mufeed it isn't. As for the narrations you mention, presumably Shaykh Mufeed saw them and wasn't convinced. That's assuming it wasn't one of those hadiths found by Majlisi, but that can't be found in the classical hadith compilations.
And they serve beside Allah what can neither harm them nor profit them, and they say: These are our intercessors with Allah. Say: Do you (presume to) inform Allah of what He knows not in the heavens and the earth? Glory be to Him, and supremely exalted is He above what they set up (with Him). [Qur'an 10:18, Shakir translation]
Now, surely, sincere obedience is due to Allah (alone) and (as for) those who take guardians besides Him, (saying), We do not serve them save that they may make us nearer to Allah, surely Allah will judge between them in that in which they differ; surely Allah does not guide him aright who is a liar, ungrateful. [Qur'an 39:3, Shakir translation]