28 replies to this topic

[Haydar Husayn]

A recent discussion on this forum, as well as countless other threads, has highlighted the fact that racism often plays a huge role in a parent's decision in who to allow their sons and daughters to marry. So I thought it would be interesting to get an idea of just how common this problem is in Muslim communities by making this anonymous poll, and having a discussion about how much of an issue this is.

[Haydar Husayn]

I'm confused about the second question.. what does it mean?

which consent ? you mean if they allowed me to marry someone from a different race?

It means what would you do if they said they weren't going to allow you to marry a person of a different race that you thought was a good match.

[-Enlightened]

It means what would you do if they said they weren't going to allow you to marry a person of a different race that you thought was a good match.

thank you . I looked it up in the dictionnary so i deleted my post

[KimK]

Implicit racism is an inevitable reality that will continue, it's human nature.

[-Enlightened]

This issue needs to be solved as soon as possible.
Culture is being more important than religion nowadays ... culture is the reason to many problems.. it's a barrier that human beings have decided to put , it has NOTHING to do with religion .. and for all those saying ''well it's okay to have preferences'' , i just want to remind you that Allah did not set any preferences between Human beings because of their race ..

at the end of the day ,we're all made of clay ..and we're gonna be judged based on our inner personality in the day of Qiyama.

[Haydar Husayn]

This issue needs to be solved as soon as possible.
Culture is being more important than religion nowadays ... culture is the reason to many problems.. it's a barrier that human beings have decided to put , it has NOTHING to do with religion .. and for all those saying ''well it's okay to have preferences'' , i just want to remind you that Allah did not set any preferences between Human beings because of their race ..

at the end of the day ,we're all made of clay ..and we're gonna be judged based on our inner personality in the day of Qiyama.

It's fine for the person who is getting married to have preferences. They might only be attracted to people of certain races, or might want to ensure that the food they will be eating at home is of a certain type, or whatever. However, it is completely unacceptable, in any way, shape, or form, for parents to try to prevent their children from marrying someone because they aren't happy with that person's race. For a start it's none of their business, and it also happens to be completely against Islam.


The Prophet (S) said: "Whosoever possesses in his heart 'asabiyyah (prejudice in any of its forms such as tribalism, racism, nationalism) even to the extent of a mustard seed, God will raise him on the Day of Resurrection with the (pagan) Beduins of the Jahiliyyah (the pre-Islamic era)." (al-Kafi)

[Aliaabbas]

My parents experienced a bit of discrimination when they got married. My mum is a sayeeda and my father isn't. They managed to get over it though.

[ireallywannaknow]

My parents wouldn't care one bit. One of my sisters married a an Arab, her first marriage was to a Guyanese, one married a white Italian, another married a black man, and one married another white guy. And my brother recently got married to a half Portuguese-half black woman. My family cares nothing about race Alhumdulillah and the only reason they might care is if I married into a family that is racist against my own race. It's sad that we have to worry about that.

[Haydar Husayn]

My parents wouldn't care one bit. One of my sisters married a an Arab, her first marriage was to a Guyanese, one married a white Italian, another married a black man, and one married another white guy. And my brother recently got married to a half Portuguese-half black woman. My family cares nothing about race Alhumdulillah and the only reason they might care is if I married into a family that is racist against my own race. It's sad that we have to worry about that.

Masha'Allah. That's great to hear.

[3laweyaZainabiya]

A good Muslim is a good Muslim no matter what race he is.
When I marry, both my father and I will be looking for a good Muslim.

Although I have a feeling my father would like for me to marry an Iraqi just for the sake of familiarity.

[Haydar Husayn]

It would be interesting to hear from those who don't think this is an issue to be tackled, to know what their reasons for thinking this are.

[Haydar Husayn]

My parents experienced a bit of discrimination when they got married. My mum is a sayeeda and my father isn't. They managed to get over it though.

Yeah, this is another common problem, as we see from the number of threads on ShiaChat. I suppose at least in this case, people try to use religious arguments to back up their prejudice. The arguments are completely bogus of course, but that's another story. I'm not sure what kind of religious justification someone could try to put forward to justify racism, but then again someone on this thread apparently was told that the Qur'an discourages it. Pretty sad that people will make up lies about the Qur'an to justify this, when in fact that Qur'an says:

O mankind! We have created you from a male and female, and made you into nations and tribes, that you may know one another. Verily, the most honorable of you with Allah is that (believer) who has piety. [Qur'an 49:13, Shakir]

[Allahuakbar]

This is a sensitive issue, I think. Parents do not have ill intentions but they wish to make sure their children continue their lives with the appropriate pious, individuals. This is the root of the issue plus generalizations about different regions. For example, Iranians think that Arabs are less religious then they are thus they will not trust their daughters/sons to an Arab. Or, an Iraqi may believe that Lebanese people are less religious then their own brethern so they will stay away from Lebanese people. Another example, and I say this with all honesty and without any disrespect to anyone: the Lebanese and Palestinian families are not conservative in our area. They sacrifice their religion in order to gain worldly things. I know that not all Lebanese or Palestinian people are as I described; however, it is certainly difficult not to keep the people around you as an example for an important decision like marriage (especially for sisters).

[KimK]

Yeah, this is another common problem, as we see from the number of threads on ShiaChat. I suppose at least in this case, people try to use religious arguments to back up their prejudice. The arguments are completely bogus of course, but that's another story. I'm not sure what kind of religious justification someone could try to put forward to justify racism, but then again someone on this thread apparently was told that the Qur'an discourages it. Pretty sad that people will make up lies about the Qur'an to justify this, when in fact that Qur'an says:

O mankind! We have created you from a male and female, and made you into nations and tribes, that you may know one another. Verily, the most honorable of you with Allah is that (believer) who has piety. [Qur'an 49:13, Shakir]

Omg.. Such people have me cursing under my breath.

[786 fordost]

I think it is hardier on African Americans to get married to others because of parents of other races who prefer whitier grandchildren over darkier ones.

[Haydar Husayn]

I think it is hardier on African Americans to get married to others because of parents of other races who prefer whitier grandchildren over darkier ones.

Sadly, this very well may be the case, which is ironic considering the later Imams almost certainly had dark skinned mothers and were dark skinned themselves.

[Al-Mufeed]

I think largely when the current generation of parents dies - this issue will not be much of a problem any more, but it will probably take 2-3 generations for it to be virtually eradicated.

[covertiman]

Sadly, this very well may be the case, which is ironic considering the later Imams almost certainly had dark skinned mothers and were dark skinned themselves.

Really? Do you have any written accounts of this?

[Ali Musaaa :)]

From a converts perspective, I doubt my parents would object me marrying a girl from another race. I think they have already accepted that I will be marrying a Muslim Girl, inshAllah but they will have no issues with what race or nationality she is.

[Haydar Husayn]

Really? Do you have any written accounts of this?

The mother of Musa al-Kadhim was Hamidah Khatun, who was either Berber or Nubian. I'm not exactly sure which, and the latter would likely be darker than the former, but in any case she was probably relatively dark, especially as Imam al-Khadim was noted as being dark from what I remember. In Kitab al-Irshad by Shaykh Mufeed she is called Hamidah al-Barbariyya, which would indicate she was Berber.

The mother of Imam Ali ar-Ridha was a slave woman named Najmah (or Umma Baneen), who was a Berber.

The mother of Imam Muhammad al-Jawad was a slave women named Sabika, who was a Nubian.

The mother of Imam Ali al-Hadi was a slave woman named Sumana, who was a Berber.

I'm not sure about the mother of Imam Hasan al-Askari .

The mother of Imam Muhammad al-Mahdi was a slave woman named Narjis, who was almost certaintly a Black African slave woman, but I'm not sure where from. The popular story of her being a Roman princess is a fabrication. See http://www.revivinga...imam-mahdi.html

This information was taken from a combination of Kitab al-Irshad by Shaykh al-Mufeed and the wikipedia pages on the Imams.

[Al-Mufeed]

There are different reports about the mothers of the imams - although what you have stated is fairly accurate - the mother of Imam kadhim isnt known by the title Hameedah Khatun

She is known as Hameedah Barbaria(as) and Hameedah Mussafa

[Haydar Husayn]

There are different reports about the mothers of the imams - although what you have stated is fairly accurate - the mother of Imam kadhim isnt known by the title Hameedah Khatun

She is known as Hameedah Barbaria(as) and Hameedah Mussafa

Yeah, I indicated that was th name given in Kitab al-Irshad. However, the named Hamida Khatun seems to be a very common named that is given to her, although I can't find any authentic-looking sources for this.

Anyway, regarding the appearance of Imam al-Kadhim , there are the following descriptions:

His Features

The narrators of traditions have described Imam Musa's features, saying: "He was very brunet."[1] It was said that he had a black color.[2] It was said that he had a bright color, of medium height, and had a thick beard.[3] Shaqiq al-Balakhi has described him, saying: "He had a good face, was very brunet and weak-bodied."

http://www.maaref-foundation.com/english/library/pro_ahl/imam07_kadim/the_life_of_imam_musa_bin_jafar/03.htm (page 58)

[Al-Mufeed]

Ive never read any source that labeled her as khatoon - but khair inshaAllah - may be you have seen some thing that I have not.

[Haydar Husayn]

Ive never read any source that labeled her as khatoon - but khair inshaAllah - may be you have seen some thing that I have not.

Well, like I said, these are hardly credible sources, but if you do a search on the internet, you get a lot of hits. I just assumed (for once) that this must have some basis to it.

Hamidah Khatun, mother of Imam Musa al-Kazim was a slave-girl from Berber. She is renowned for her knowledge and piety. She was called Hamidah the Pure.

http://www.al-islam.org/slavery/4.htm

Father's name: Imam Jafar-as-Sadiq(A.S.).
Mother's name: Hamida Khatoon.

http://www.imamreza.net/eng/imamreza.php?id=407

Imam Mousa Al-Kadhim was born on Sunday 7^th Safar 128 A.H. in a place between Mecca and Medina known as Al-Abwa, the very place where the mother of the Holy Prophet (SAW) , Aminah, the daughter of Wahab, had passed away and was buried. His father is the sixth Imam, Imam Jaffar Al-Sadiq and his mother is Hamida Khatoon, who was a freed slave girl that Imam Al-Sadiq married.

http://www.alulbayt.com/home/kadhim_booklet.htm

Following his wife's death Al-Sadiq purchased a slave of Berber origin named Hamidah Khātūn (Arabic: حميدة خاتون‎), freed her, trained her as an Islamic scholar, and then married her.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ja%27far_al-Sadiq#Birth_and_family_life

http://www2.irib.ir/...7/Martyrdom.htm

[alimohamad40]

Salaam
The preference argument is a faulty one to use it as an excuse for racism
You have the right to have preference which are consistent with Islam for example choosing a language or colour. But if your preferences are primarily and purely based on materialistic issues with a disregard to religion then ill be in trouble with god.

Allah Akbar: the excuses you gave are the exact definition of racism. When you allow your judgement be influenced by a generalization then your judgement and assumption is based on suspicion which is prohibited even if the generalization was true.
Since you admit the generalization is not applicable to all then it's haraam to prejudge cause your never certain that the judged individual is included in the generalization.

Another issue is I've seen iraqies Iranians Lebanese and they are all the same [Edited Out] so it's nonsense when dome of them look down at others
They are very brilliant when it comes to corruption and ugly behaviour that if you put them in a competition they will all get a draw and A+