7 replies to this topic

[Christianlady]

Hello,

I'm going to try so hard to keep this short, sigh.


Numbers 30 (NIV)

³ “When a young woman still living in her father’s household makes a vow to the Lord or obligates herself by a pledge ⁴ and her father hears about her vow or pledge but says nothing to her, then all her vows and every pledge by which she obligated herself will stand. ⁵ But if her father forbids her when he hears about it, none of her vows or the pledges by which she obligated herself will stand; the Lord will release her because her father has forbidden her.
⁶ “If she marries after she makes a vow or after her lips utter a rash promise by which she obligates herself ⁷ and her husband hears about it but says nothing to her, then her vows or the pledges by which she obligated herself will stand. ⁸ But if her husband forbids her when he hears about it, he nullifies the vow that obligates her or the rash promise by which she obligates herself, and the Lord will release her.
⁹ “Any vow or obligation taken by a widow or divorced woman will be binding on her.
¹⁰ “If a woman living with her husband makes a vow or obligates herself by a pledge under oath ¹¹ and her husband hears about it but says nothing to her and does not forbid her, then all her vows or the pledges by which she obligated herself will stand. ¹² But if her husband nullifies them when he hears about them, then none of the vows or pledges that came from her lips will stand. Her husband has nullified them, and the Lord will release her. ¹³ Her husband may confirm or nullify any vow she makes or any sworn pledge to deny herself. ¹⁴ But if her husband says nothing to her about it from day to day, then he confirms all her vows or the pledges binding on her. He confirms them by saying nothing to her when he hears about them. ¹⁵ If, however, he nullifies them some time after he hears about them, then he must bear the consequences of her wrongdoing.”
¹⁶ These are the regulations the Lord gave Moses concerning relationships between a man and his wife, and between a father and his young daughter still living at home.


First of all, the above was part of God's regulations through Moses for the children of Israel, the descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (Israel), and thus do not apply to Gentiles. The Jewish people who believe in G-d and the Tanakh do not hold Gentiles to the same regulations as they have. Why? Because they were not given to Gentiles, but rather to the descendants of Jacob.

Anyways, as a Christian, I can relate to the fact that my Dad, who is also a Christian, was responsible for me while I was growing up. He made sure I had nice shelter, good food, a high quality education, joy and laughter, and above all, that I learned about God. So, Numbers 30:1-5 is understood by Christians to be a father's supervision of his daughter(s).

As a married Christian lady, Numbers 30:10-15 make sense to me, because the husband is the authority figure of the home. Now, the husband being the authority figure of the home does not mean that men are superior to women, no. It means that God gave men the responsibility (which is a big responsibilty) of taking care of their wife and children, and will judge them according to how they fulfill their responsibility.



1 Corinthians 11 (NIV)

⁷ A man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man. ⁸ For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; ⁹ neither was man created for woman, but woman for man. ¹⁰ It is for this reason that a woman ought to have authority over her own head, because of the angels.

This does not mean that women are inferior to men, but rather that when God created Adam and Eve, God created Eve out of Adam, which is really cool and beautiful! I don't know if you've ever heard the following quote, but it's a beautiful one which I believe is true!

“The woman was made of a rib out of the side of Adam; not made out of his head to rule over him, nor out of his feet to be trampled upon by him, but out of his side to be equal with him, under his arm to be protected, and near his heart to be beloved.”
― Matthew Henry, Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible: Complete and Unabridged in One Volume

1 Corinthians 14 (NIV)

³⁴ Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. ³⁵ If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.

This does not mean that women are inferior, but rather that there needs to be order in the church. It is very possible that Christian ladies in the church in the city of Corinth were not being orderly in the churches, but rather were asking a lot of questions and interrupting, which would explain why Paul would write this specifically to the Corinthian Christians.

Colossians 3 (NIV)

¹⁸ Wives, submit yourselves to your husbands, as is fitting in the Lord.

This does not imply inferiority, but rather the acknowledgement of the difference in roles between the authority/responsibility of the husband, and the helpmate position of the wife. Just as an employee is not an inferior human being compared to his/her boss, so a wife is not an inferior human being to her husband.

Ephesians 5 (NIV)

¹¹ A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. ¹² I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. ¹³ For Adam was formed first, then Eve. ¹⁴ And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. ¹⁵ But women will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.
²² Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. ²³ For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. ²⁴ Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

It is interesting to me how a Jewish man who never got married (Paul had the gift of celibacy) was instructing different churches in Gentile communities concerning how women should conduct themselves in church. Because I was not a Gentile Christian lady either in Corinth or Ephesus, I do not know how they used to behave. It is possible that they were very distracting, I don't know.

However, I do know that Jesus did not say that women are inferior to men. He talked with both women and men, and praised the faith of many women! The role of Christian females, when they are young, are to obey their parents. The role of Christian females, when they get married, are to be the helpmate of their husband. If both the husband and the wife were the authority figures, then it could turn into a war lol. As a Christian wife, I acknolwedge and am happy that my husband is the authority figure of our home, because he loves God and loves me, and is a wonderful man! Now, if he were not a wonderful man, I would have a huge problem with this. Sad to say, there are many men of different beliefs who are not ready to be the authority figure of the home.

As a Christian lady, I do not believe that women are inferior to me. Rather, I believe that both men and women are equal under God, though with different roles in life.

Peace and God bless you

Edited by Christianlady, 29 May 2012 - 05:05 PM.

[Hassan_S]

"As a Christian lady, I do not believe that women are inferior to me. Rather, I believe that both men and women are equal under God, though with different roles in life."


If this quote was repeated enough, the stereotypes we have against us won't be so strong. So yes I agree.
It's as if you were describing the features that a Muslim woman should have, as in what you've stated appeals to Christianity and Islam...I guess we've forgotten our roles in society, which lead to disasters i.e. transexuals etc...

So you guys believe that Eve was the one who ate from the tree and not Adam, Am I right?

Keep it up

God bless you

[AlwaysChangingHisUserName]

So you guys believe that Eve was the one who ate from the tree and not Adam, Am I right?

And they also believe that Eve was created from Adam's rib, so that she could be subservient to him. At least in the Hebrew language, the word for "helper" that is used (or something similar, idk what translation of the Bible you use) actually refers to a person that serves him like a maid.

In Corinthians, didn't Paul say that women should be quiet in churches and that it is an abomination for them to speak? If they want to know something they can ask their husbands . . . I can get the direct quotes if you want.

A lot of western people think that Islam oppresses women, but honestly Islam treats them a hell of a lot fairer than any other religions at the time.

[Goku]

And they also believe that Eve was created from Adam's rib, so that she could be subservient to him. At least in the Hebrew language, the word for "helper" that is used (or something similar, idk what translation of the Bible you use) actually refers to a person that serves him like a maid.

In Corinthians, didn't Paul say that women should be quiet in churches and that it is an abomination for them to speak? If they want to know something they can ask their husbands . . . I can get the direct quotes if you want.

A lot of western people think that Islam oppresses women, but honestly Islam treats them a hell of a lot fairer than any other religions at the time.

It was also Eve's fault for man's sin and the death of Jesus.

[shia_from_texas]

It was also Eve's fault for man's sin and the death of Jesus.

I went to Catholic school most of my childhood and I know that Christians do not believe that a woman is responsible for the death of Jesus. Just as we want Christians to know the facts of our religion, we must also know the facts of theirs and be sure that if we write a statement, it is true to their beliefs. Another thing is that I feel that this lady is not being disrespectful to us, so please think before you speak to her. You are all representatives of Islam and how you carry yourself and how you treat others from a different faith reflects on all of us as Muslims. Please do not be mean or disrespectful. We should have a dialogue, not accusations.

Hello,

I'm going to try so hard to keep this short, sigh.


Numbers 30 (NIV)

³ “When a young woman still living in her father’s household makes a vow to the Lord or obligates herself by a pledge ⁴ and her father hears about her vow or pledge but says nothing to her, then all her vows and every pledge by which she obligated herself will stand. ⁵ But if her father forbids her when he hears about it, none of her vows or the pledges by which she obligated herself will stand; the Lord will release her because her father has forbidden her.
⁶ “If she marries after she makes a vow or after her lips utter a rash promise by which she obligates herself ⁷ and her husband hears about it but says nothing to her, then her vows or the pledges by which she obligated herself will stand. ⁸ But if her husband forbids her when he hears about it, he nullifies the vow that obligates her or the rash promise by which she obligates herself, and the Lord will release her.
⁹ “Any vow or obligation taken by a widow or divorced woman will be binding on her.
¹⁰ “If a woman living with her husband makes a vow or obligates herself by a pledge under oath ¹¹ and her husband hears about it but says nothing to her and does not forbid her, then all her vows or the pledges by which she obligated herself will stand. ¹² But if her husband nullifies them when he hears about them, then none of the vows or pledges that came from her lips will stand. Her husband has nullified them, and the Lord will release her. ¹³ Her husband may confirm or nullify any vow she makes or any sworn pledge to deny herself. ¹⁴ But if her husband says nothing to her about it from day to day, then he confirms all her vows or the pledges binding on her. He confirms them by saying nothing to her when he hears about them. ¹⁵ If, however, he nullifies them some time after he hears about them, then he must bear the consequences of her wrongdoing.”
¹⁶ These are the regulations the Lord gave Moses concerning relationships between a man and his wife, and between a father and his young daughter still living at home.


First of all, the above was part of God's regulations through Moses for the children of Israel, the descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (Israel), and thus do not apply to Gentiles. The Jewish people who believe in G-d and the Tanakh do not hold Gentiles to the same regulations as they have. Why? Because they were not given to Gentiles, but rather to the descendants of Jacob.

Anyways, as a Christian, I can relate to the fact that my Dad, who is also a Christian, was responsible for me while I was growing up. He made sure I had nice shelter, good food, a high quality education, joy and laughter, and above all, that I learned about God. So, Numbers 30:1-5 is understood by Christians to be a father's supervision of his daughter(s).

As a married Christian lady, Numbers 30:10-15 make sense to me, because the husband is the authority figure of the home. Now, the husband being the authority figure of the home does not mean that men are superior to women, no. It means that God gave men the responsibility (which is a big responsibilty) of taking care of their wife and children, and will judge them according to how they fulfill their responsibility.



1 Corinthians 11 (NIV)

⁷ A man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man. ⁸ For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; ⁹ neither was man created for woman, but woman for man. ¹⁰ It is for this reason that a woman ought to have authority over her own head, because of the angels.

This does not mean that women are inferior to men, but rather that when God created Adam and Eve, God created Eve out of Adam, which is really cool and beautiful! I don't know if you've ever heard the following quote, but it's a beautiful one which I believe is true!

“The woman was made of a rib out of the side of Adam; not made out of his head to rule over him, nor out of his feet to be trampled upon by him, but out of his side to be equal with him, under his arm to be protected, and near his heart to be beloved.”
― Matthew Henry, Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible: Complete and Unabridged in One Volume




This does not mean that women are inferior, but rather that there needs to be order in the church. It is very possible that Christian ladies in the church in the city of Corinth were not being orderly in the churches, but rather were asking a lot of questions and interrupting, which would explain why Paul would write this specifically to the Corinthian Christians.

Colossians 3 (NIV)

¹⁸ Wives, submit yourselves to your husbands, as is fitting in the Lord.

This does not imply inferiority, but rather the acknowledgement of the difference in roles between the authority/responsibility of the husband, and the helpmate position of the wife. Just as an employee is not an inferior human being compared to his/her boss, so a wife is not an inferior human being to her husband.

Ephesians 5 (NIV)

¹¹ A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. ¹² I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. ¹³ For Adam was formed first, then Eve. ¹⁴ And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. ¹⁵ But women will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.
²² Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. ²³ For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. ²⁴ Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

It is interesting to me how a Jewish man who never got married (Paul had the gift of celibacy) was instructing different churches in Gentile communities concerning how women should conduct themselves in church. Because I was not a Gentile Christian lady either in Corinth or Ephesus, I do not know how they used to behave. It is possible that they were very distracting, I don't know.

However, I do know that Jesus did not say that women are inferior to men. He talked with both women and men, and praised the faith of many women! The role of Christian females, when they are young, are to obey their parents. The role of Christian females, when they get married, are to be the helpmate of their husband. If both the husband and the wife were the authority figures, then it could turn into a war lol. As a Christian wife, I acknolwedge and am happy that my husband is the authority figure of our home, because he loves God and loves me, and is a wonderful man! Now, if he were not a wonderful man, I would have a huge problem with this. Sad to say, there are many men of different beliefs who are not ready to be the authority figure of the home.

As a Christian lady, I do not believe that women are inferior to me. Rather, I believe that both men and women are equal under God, though with different roles in life.

Peace and God bless you

In Islam, we believe that everyone is equal in the eyes of God except for their faith, meaning that some have more faith than others. I come from a Muslim household and when I was growing up, I never felt like I was any different from my brother. Mainly because our parents always said that in their eyes, we were both the same and there was no different treatment for my brother than for me.

Edited by shia_from_texas, 29 May 2012 - 10:34 PM.

[Christianlady]

"As a Christian lady, I do not believe that women are inferior to me. Rather, I believe that both men and women are equal under God, though with different roles in life."

Hello Hassan_S,

Whoops! I made an error... I wonder if I can change it... it should read "As a Christian lady, I do not believe that women are inferior to men." lol

If this quote was repeated enough, the stereotypes we have against us won't be so strong. So yes I agree.
It's as if you were describing the features that a Muslim woman should have, as in what you've stated appeals to Christianity and Islam...I guess we've forgotten our roles in society, which lead to disasters i.e. transexuals etc...

Both roles are extremely important. Both roles (the role of the man and the role of the woman) are precious and wonderful, and both give glory to God!

About transexuals, because of the decaying nature of earth after sin entered God's Creation, there are issues with some people's bodies. For example, there are some babies born with deformities, some having sexual organs (whether completely formed or not) of both males and females. However, God knows and understands their situation. For people who struggle with issues beyond their control, it is important for them to know that God loves them and even though they having trials that are different than the normal human, with God's help, they can still obey God. However sad to say, many transexuals in this day are encouraged to live a life of sexual immorality instead of living for God. These people should not be mocked or insulted, but rather prayed for, because God loves them.

Concerning males who are born 100% male and yet become transexual, and even go as far as getting surgeries and taking hormones, I wonder if they grew up without a strong male role model or if they just love the female body and form of behavior so much that they want to copy it? It is a bit confusing to me, this. I think much of it is physchological.

So you guys believe that Eve was the one who ate from the tree and not Adam, Am I right?

No. Christians believe that satan, in the form of a serpent, tempted Eve, who ate the forbidden fruit and gave it to Adam, who was with her, and he ate the fruit too. Both of them sinned against God. Why Adam did not stop Eve from eating the fruit and refuse to eat it, I don't know. My husband speculates that it may be because Eve was so beautiful and Adam was not thinking of the command, just of Eve...? God alone knows. I personally think that Adam could have persuaded Eve to leave the tree and the serpent alone, but neglected to protect her and himself. For a long time, SOME Christian men have blamed women for the fall because of this, which is pretty sad, because Adam didn't help any, which he could have, by taking her by the hand and telling her he loves her and they only need God, they don't need whatever the serpent was saying..., that's just my thoughts on this.

Genesis 3 - http://www.biblegate...203&version=NIV
(I boldened some.)

"Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’? ”
² The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, ³ but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’”
⁴ “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. ⁵ “For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”
⁶ When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it."

Keep it up

God bless you

Peace and God bless you

And they also believe that Eve was created from Adam's rib, so that she could be subservient to him. At least in the Hebrew language, the word for "helper" that is used (or something similar, idk what translation of the Bible you use) actually refers to a person that serves him like a maid.

Hello Ja'far,

Actually, Christians do not believe that Eve is subservient to Adam. Below is a quote from Matthew Henry, one of the Biblical scholars that most Christians admire: (I boldened some).

“The woman was made of a rib out of the side of Adam; not made out of his head to rule over him, nor out of his feet to be trampled upon by him, but out of his side to be equal with him, under his arm to be protected, and near his heart to be beloved.”
― Matthew Henry, Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible: Complete and Unabridged in One Volume

Christians believe that God made Eve out of a rib of Adam to be equal with him, protected by him, and beloved by him.

In Corinthians, didn't Paul say that women should be quiet in churches and that it is an abomination for them to speak? If they want to know something they can ask their husbands . . . I can get the direct quotes if you want.

Where does Paul say women speaking in churches is an abomination?

Paul, who is not Jesus, was giving advice to specific churches. However, that does not mean at all that he considers women to be inferior to men. Rather, it means that he considers men and women to have different roles, including roles in both the church, and at home.

A lot of western people think that Islam oppresses women, but honestly Islam treats them a hell of a lot fairer than any other religions at the time.

It really depends on the individual. Sadly, there are men of every belief, including Muslims, Christians, Jewish Orthodox people, Buddhists, Hindus, ... who oppress women. However there are men of every belief who do not oppress women, but rather loves and respects his wife and female family members, as well as all other females he meets. So, it's not so much a matter of religion, but rather a matter of the heart. For men who love God and understand that men and women are equal under God, with different roles in life, they will tend to love, respect, and not oppress women. However, sad to say, men oppressing women happens in every belief.

Peace and God bless you

I went to Catholic school most of my childhood and I know that Christians do not believe that a woman is responsible for the death of Jesus.

Hello Shia From Texas,

(My Mom was born in Texas by the way.) Yes you are right, Christians do not believe that a woman is responsible for the death of Jesus. Most Christians believe that all people are indirectly responsible, because of sin, but that God in His mercy sent Jesus to be the Lamb of God, to take away the (spiritual consequences of the) sins of the world (Genesis 22:8; John 1:29). These sins are of both men and women.

Just as we want Christians to know the facts of our religion, we must also know the facts of theirs and be sure that if we write a statement, it is true to their beliefs. Another thing is that I feel that this lady is not being disrespectful to us, so please think before you speak to her. You are all representatives of Islam and how you carry yourself and how you treat others from a different faith reflects on all of us as Muslims. Please do not be mean or disrespectful. We should have a dialogue, not accusations.

Thanks so much for your kindness, tolerance, hospitality, and respectfulness! I really appreciate it, and I very much hope to be kind, tolerant, and respectful as well. I appreciate your standing up for me!

In Islam, we believe that everyone is equal in the eyes of God except for their faith, meaning that some have more faith than others. I come from a Muslim household and when I was growing up, I never felt like I was any different from my brother. Mainly because our parents always said that in their eyes, we were both the same and there was no different treatment for my brother than for me.

That's awesome! Your parents sound wonderful!

I do not have any brothers, but my parents taught my sisters and me that God made both men and women wonderfully, that we are equal under God, and that God has given different roles to the genders. I am grateful to God to be a woman, and I believe both genders are precious and special to God, that neither of them is inferior/superior, but both are important and both, when loving God and loving others with God's love, make the world a better place!

Peace and God bless you

Edited by Christianlady, 30 May 2012 - 07:55 AM.

[AlwaysChangingHisUserName]

Where does Paul say women speaking in churches is an abomination?

Paul, who is not Jesus, was giving advice to specific churches. However, that does not mean at all that he considers women to be inferior to men. Rather, it means that he considers men and women to have different roles, including roles in both the church, and at home.

1 Corinthians 14:34-35 (kjv)


³⁴ Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
³⁵ And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

[Christianlady]

1 Corinthians 14:34-35 (kjv)


³⁴ Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
³⁵ And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

Hello Ja'far,

Abomination is a much stronger word than "a shame". It is incorrect to say that Paul thought it was an abomination. Shame normally connotes embarrase(ment), wherease abomination normally connotes a detestable/disgusting act/object.

Again, Paul, who is not Jesus, was giving advice to churches. Paul does not say that women are inferior to men. He does make clear however that they have different roles, both at home and in the church.

In Galatians 3, Paul makes clear that everyone is equal and one in God's eyes, no matter their ethnicity, social status, and gender:

Galatians 3 - http://www.biblegate...s 3&version=NIV
(I boldened some.)

"²⁶ So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, ²⁷ for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. ²⁸There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. ²⁹ If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise."

Back to the role of women in the church, from reading ALL of Paul's letters included in the New Testament, it is important to understand that he dealt with women who may have been difficult. For example,

Phillipians 4 - http://www.biblegate...s 4&version=NIV
(I boldened some).

"Therefore, my brothers and sisters, you whom I love and long for, my joy and crown, stand firm in the Lord in this way, dear friends!
² I plead with Euodia and I plead with Syntyche to be of the same mind in the Lord. ³ Yes, and I ask you, my true companion, help these women since they have contended at my side in the cause of the gospel, along with Clement and the rest of my co-workers, whose names are in the book of life."

It seems that Euodia and Syntyche were not always "of the same mind in the Lord" which is why Paul specifically mentioned them in the letter to the Phillipian church, pleading with them and encouraging help for these women. It is also then possible that in the churches of Corinth and the church of Ephesus, women were interrupting the church teaching times with a lot of questions, that Paul thought could be answered by their husbands at home.

So, it is important to pray for wisdom through God's Holy Spirit, and when reading Paul's letters, to take into consideration the following crucial facts:

1. When Paul was writing/dictating these letters, they were not a part of the Scriptures, but rather were simply letters of encouragement/instruction to churches in Gentile cities. Thus, they were not considered part of the Scriptures during that time. The Tanakh was (and still is) the Scriptures. So, what is important to understand is that Paul's letters, though Christians believe them to be inspired by God, are not on the same level as Jesus' teachings, accounted in the 4 Gospels which are also included in the New Testament, and are not on the same level as the Tanakh (Old Testament) which was considered the Scriptures during Jesus' time, and is still considered the Scriptures by Christians today.

2. Paul knew a lot about the people in the churches, being personally involved with the people of the churches. His letters to each church addressed truths for all believers in Christ, as well as specific cultural/personal issues. For exampe, in the Corinthian church, Paul admonishes the people of the church because of a man who was sexually involved with his stepmother.

1 Corinthians 5 - http://www.biblegate...s 5&version=NIV
(I boldened some.)

"It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that even pagans do not tolerate: A man is sleeping with his father’s wife. ² And you are proud! Shouldn’t you rather have gone into mourning and have put out of your fellowship the man who has been doing this?"

In the 2nd letter of Paul to the Corinthian Christians, Paul seems to be referring to this same man (that is what most Biblical scholars believe).

2 Corinthians 2 - http://www.biblegate...s 2&version=NIV
(I boldened some.)

"⁵ If anyone has caused grief, he has not so much grieved me as he has grieved all of you to some extent—not to put it too severely. ⁶ The punishment inflicted on him by the majority is sufficient. ⁷ Now instead, you ought to forgive and comfort him, so that he will not be overwhelmed by excessive sorrow. ⁸ I urge you, therefore, to reaffirm your love for him."

So, as one can see, Paul's letters need to be understood as being written to specific people. Christians of today most definitely can learn from Paul's letters. Paul is a man who loved God very much, who God saved from persecution Christians to actually being a leader, or apostle of Gentile Christians. However, again it is also important to understand that Jesus' teachings and actions are paramount to Christian beliefs, whereas Paul's letters are helps.

Peace and God bless you

Edited by Christianlady, 30 May 2012 - 09:26 AM.