30 replies to this topic

[fightingsoul001]

This is very important current Issue of Pakistan because very large numbers of shias are leaving the country to settle in secure and better places of the world. At least in khyber pakhtoonkhwa area this out flux is evident because I myself is aware of. Rate of out flux is increasing dramatically. Although their right to migrate can't be denied.
But there is one problem with this migration. Our numbers would become thin in areas especially in shia strongholds and we would be unable to defend our selves from mass killings.

It is no more a conspiracy theory among shias and sunnis of Pakistan that salafis are strongly determined to eliminate each and every shia and they view this a Holy war. And there is influx of large amount of Saudi money in support for these activities.

Some emotional people may not understand this issue but people who have some experience with such fights and who thinks rationally know that numbers also matters in defending a land.
In this regard we need to prepare ourselves by making extensive plans. Slogan and demonstration are also important but most important thing is how we prepare ourselves.

Any suggestion in this regard are welcome.

[Ugly Jinn]

Get India involved. They hate salafi/wahabi extremists also = collaborate to smoke them out. Get international help also.

But the weak incompetent brain dead corrupt Pakistani gov. will never put it's ego aside.

Edited by Ugly Jinn, 25 May 2012 - 04:17 AM.

[ShahBano_BZ]

Ugly Jinn, on 25 May 2012 - 04:02 AM, said:

Get India involved. They hate salafi/wahabi extremists also = collaborate to smoke them out. Get international help also.

But the weak incompetent Pakistani gov. will never put it's ego aside.

Things are equally bad in other parts of Pakistan---especially in Sindh as well. They are doing the targeted killing of shia cream---best scholars, poets, high level gov. officials, doctors/ engineers. The movement seems to aim at wiping out the best minds of Shia community.

[fightingsoul001]

India obviously is not an option. It like doing "a bail mujay maar." Means making bad situation into worse. India is one of the reason of destabilizing the region. Read history of Afghanistan from 1930s you will get your answer from there of how India is involved.
I think wide scale cross cultural marriages can be one of the best option but not a practical one.
But if every body realizes that its about their life and death situation, it can be implemented.

If we think about current situations we can come up with lots of ideas.

Edited by fightingsoul001, 25 May 2012 - 04:54 AM.

[shiaaliibrahim]

You have an example in Lebanon to follow.  You need to follow that example and then get on the offensive.  Like someone said earlier, you have to smoke them out.  This means you have to analysis there trends and tendencies and lay in wait to capture them.  Once that has been done you need to get intelligence on their centers of operations and they must be destroyed.

Do not worry about numbers, operate smarter than they do and once they realize they do not have a soft target any more they will flee and regroup or be eliminated (best case).

[Kaniz e Zahra]

I don't know why people prefer to run away due to fear of death,Shahadat is our inheritance,we must be proud of it.
Allah  says in Quran that those who run away from battle field are scared of death,so if their time is up their death can reach them at their homes too,but if they have more to live they will return as Ghaazis.
I haven't done the word to word translation here,but that is what Allah has said in His Book,and we can see the living example when200 Hazaras were fleeing to Australia ,their boat drowned and they all were dead,so could they escape death?if they had faced it at back home they would have been Shaheed,could get buried,but sadly they couldn't be buried even and went somewhere in sea,so there is no point of escape.
Those who are staunch,are not going to run here,and there,majority isn't planning an escape even though there are very rich Shias in Karachi,and elsewhere,only this trend is evident in Khyber Pakhtunkwa,and Hazaras of Quetta.When i was kid i saw a massive target killing taking place all over Pakistan of best of professinals,but nobody ran away,it gets much controlled after Musharraf,now it's started again,anyways we have a heart enough to die for the sake of Ahlebait(as).
As for to control it,one needs to wipe out the dens where they are getting nurtured,moreover the money flowing from mid-east as donations for them need to be blocked,and thirdly,we need a transparent judiciary,which is unfortunately we don't have,and the cursed ones like of malik ishaq got freed from supreme court,and that so-called chief justice of ours remain sleeping,and when it comes to something political regarding his opponent party PPP,he all of the sudden start chanting suo-motto suo-motto,but forget it entirely when it comes to Shias.

Edited by Kaniz e Zahra, 25 May 2012 - 06:33 AM.

[Gypsy]

Can't really blame people for leaving the country. If someone is trying to kill you or your family, then wouldn't you want to protect yourself and them?

Sorry, not a very constructive post here.

[Kaniz e Zahra]

Did Imam Hussain(as)try to leave? instead He went nearer to death along with His Family,Friends,and Loved ones.Didn't He want to protect Them?Why Did he bring Women,and Kids?for the safety of Haqq,for it's Propagation,that is what we are doing,not to compromise with batil..
Azadari is the same Propagation done by Bibi Zainab(as)in the face of death,and atrocities,that is what we are protecting here.
When there were suicide attacks every year on Mourning Processions,we participated in those processions in much greater numbers than before,though millions were participating in these even before,and those who were used to attend nearby processions start going to the targeted ones to show the strength of Faith. so all those ppl didn't love their lives,and family??
If all will leave that means they are succesful,they want this to clear Pakistan from Shia presence,why should we let them succeed.We will stay here inshAllah till our Imam(as)comes.
And by the way gypsy which country u lives in?Pakistan.?
How will ppl fight along with Imam(as),many of them will embrace Shahadat,so will they protect them then?

Edited by Kaniz e Zahra, 25 May 2012 - 07:09 AM.

[Gypsy]

Kaniz e Zahra, on 25 May 2012 - 07:00 AM, said:

And by the way gypsy which country u lives in?Pakistan.?

Nope.

But I understand what you guys are facing. I am also from a predominantly Sunni Muslim country that hates the Ahl al-Bayt.


See the latest news http://www.malaysiak...com/news/197865

Celebrating the Birthday of Prophet daughter is a Shia Program!

[Kaniz e Zahra]

fightingsoul001, on 25 May 2012 - 07:21 AM, said:

My dear sister! Hijrat is not only necessity of life, it is also farz in Islam if you feel that there is injustice happening in your area. And Imam Hussain did hijrat before which ended up in Karbala.
And do you really think people of khyber pakhtoon khwa are afraid of death and persecutions? Shia Patans have been living in these conditions since 1980s plus this 10 years of tyranny.
And your should not Judge Patans because you may not have seen videos and pictures of those parts and may be unaware of 10 years complete blockade of that part of land. Their fight was not only with life and death of their families but also with 10years time which if one think of rationally is pretty huge time plus their economic conditions. Mothers have seen slaughters of their children with their own eyes and still you are judging them. I think it is so shameful that you even mention them here. I request you to please spend only a month with your family in Parachinar, I will salute you for your courage. Have you enough courage to see your child slaughter in front of you and then these lunatics split his body parts in front of you?
If you want to see these I will PM you but believe me you will not be able to sleep for few days after watching them.

I think it is duty of every shia to defend their land through cooperation. Shia of khyber pakhtoon khwa have never received any support from any other part of country ever. Only a little financial support which they received, never reached to martyr families and orphans of war. We have only received support from other provinces in shape of Taliban. And still you are judging them. Shame on you.

So instead of leaving a country,they can migrate to other cities as well.Imam(as)'s act wasn't migration.Migration is done when Islam is in danger,not for what u say.
I am not targetting people of Parachinaar,i know what is happening there.My family's ppl are in Army,and intelligence,so i am much well informed with other areas situation.Parachinaris had also been taking revenge,i don't want to mention the ways but i appreciate their acts,of vengeance..
How can u judge me?You asked me whether i can see my child to be slain before my eyes?
InshAllah let the time comes,i pray my children,my own life,my loved ones be sacrificed for my Imam(as),even if my child is slaughtered before my eyes for my Maula(as)..You can't judge the Emaan of anyone so kindly correct the tone of your post.
May Maula(as)bless me with strength of Faith,and never let me waver in it.

Edited by Kaniz e Zahra, 25 May 2012 - 08:08 AM.

[Kaniz e Zahra]

Gypsy, on 25 May 2012 - 07:22 AM, said:

Nope.

But I understand what you guys are facing. I am also from a predominantly Sunni Muslim country that hates the Ahl al-Bayt.


See the latest news http://www.malaysiak...com/news/197865

Celebrating the Birthday of Prophet daughter is a Shia Program!

Sister but the problem in Pakistan isn't that we are hated by common Pakistani,no but there are certain Wahabi organization funded by Arab countries who don't even spare sunnis,nor the ordinary citizen around.So why to blame them?
Malaysia i think is highly oppressed ,if i am not wrong Azadari isn't publicily allowed there?And Shias are so few.Whereas we fully enjoy freedom of Azadari.India,and Pakistan are two only non-Shia countries in the world with official Ashura leave.So situation is bit different here,there are certain pockets of Pakistan,which are breeding grounds of terrorism.If they,and their funding is controlled,Pakistan can be an ideal place for Shias.

[shiaaliibrahim]

fightingsoul001, on 25 May 2012 - 05:19 AM, said:

lolz.  I think you are completely unaware of whole situation of shias in Pakistan. We are not situated at single place, we are as scattered as possibly can be, we are located at four corners of Pakistan.  Shias in Pakistan only know people who are their village fellows. They don't even know a single person from any other place. So we are more than scattered.
You are right offense is a best defense. In Parachinar similar strategy is being used i.e intelligence, kidnapping, training, gurrella warfare, and targeting their weapon warehouses  etc but there are only two such strongholds Gilgit Baltistan and Parachinar. Which are also now thinning out due to outflux.
And we are not fighting Israel. For fighting Israel you get support from other Muslims politically and morally but we get punishment to even defend ourselves. and issue here is not to capturing them but only to prevent mass murders. We shias of Pakistan are not aggressors, we are only happy with our defense.

You are correct, I have limited knowledge of the situation of Shia in Pakistan.  I only know the Pakistani Shia at my Husseinaya.  What I do know from conversation is that Pakistani Shia have been very reserved and accommodating of the larger Sunni community to maintain peace and stability.  I can understand the reluctance to move too far away from that strategy, particularly when the Islamic Republic has remained somewhat silent on this matter.  It is my experience that Pakistani Shia are very intelligent and resourceful.  I think that using that to your advantage can more than make up for the small numbers.  Part of my response is based on providing encouragement and hope that the situation is within your power to manage.  I have not had my friends and neighbors being killed and thus can not really appreciate the full gravity of your plight.  I do believe that the Pakistani Shia are a tiger by the tail and those holding it better be careful because it is just a matter of time before the tiger breaks out.

[Kaniz e Zahra]

The more pathetic thing is that the Shias of other areas specially in power didn't come forward to help fellow Shias in Parachinaar.
What to say about others if our own ppl are selfish,they are not concerned for other ppl's miseries.Like ppl of Madina did.They didn't escort Imam(as),still faced death on incident of Hurra.
Similarly,the Shias who were silently watching the spectacle,now target killing have reached their cities,only if they supported Shias in Parachinar,and crushed the Wahabis there..,the same cursed ones could have never moved to their cities.
As long as they will stay silent,won't respond them in a same manner,they will feel encouraged to inflict more atrocities.

fightingsoul001, on 25 May 2012 - 08:38 AM, said:

That is what Patan mothers have done, I think it should be enough to at least prove that they are not coward. So don't label them coward because you think so. I am not judging you, I am just telling you that it is not wise to say that these acts were act of disgrace and sign of a coward. If they are leaving the country there may be some other factors which are worrying them.  I have seen sufferings for 10 years and it is even more painful when even your shia sister can't understand how we struggled all these years and what we gone through.


Prophet also did hijrat from makah to madina. What was that?

Oh bhai when did i call u coward,when u specifically discussed khaiber pakhtunkhwa,i didn't grasp that u wr particularly referring to Parachinaar, i thought other areas's ppl are migrating from Pashtun areas due to fear..
As far as Prophet(saww)'s migration is concerned,that was for protection of Islam not for Himself only.Now don't think i am criticizing you.And i said migration can be done to other cities ,leaving a country isn't necessary.
I am sorry if i hurt you.And plz send me those videos through PM.
I still say,i didn't call you cowards,or disgraceful ppl,infact we always feel proud of u people.

Edited by Kaniz e Zahra, 25 May 2012 - 08:51 AM.

[Kaniz e Zahra]

fightingsoul001, on 25 May 2012 - 09:00 AM, said:

I will PM you but I would advise you not to watch them.

Thanx,i shall be looking forward..I have a courage Alhamdulilah,though it's really hard to stand such things getting done to our own ppl,but we must be familiar with those atrocities by witnessing them..and can get reminded of the pain of Syeda Zainab(as).

[Darth Vader]

Since there is and will be no Hizbullah like movement in our society, I think its better to let God take care of such large scale things. At worst, you'll receive the best thing possible in this life: Martyrdom. There is no better trade for the thirsty to find a spring of sweet and cool water in the middle of a desert, or is there? Do not forget Islamic history. The buildings of Baghdad even its mosque had corpses of Seyyeds and Shias in their foundations. Then, God used the Mongols to disintegrate the city and they built towers of Nasibi skulls, burnt all their books, and ended the Abbassid caliphate. God is the best planner, the best Warith and the best Muntaqim. He takes care of orphans and widows and gives patience.

Edited by Abu Dujana, 25 May 2012 - 05:11 PM.

[Ugly Jinn]

ShahBano_BZ, on 25 May 2012 - 04:18 AM, said:

Things are equally bad in other parts of Pakistan---especially in Sindh as well. They are doing the targeted killing of shia cream---best scholars, poets, high level gov. officials, doctors/ engineers. The movement seems to aim at wiping out the best minds of Shia community.

And it's obvious the Pakistani gov. has cannot control this, rather I sometimes believe they look the other way.

fightingsoul001, on 25 May 2012 - 04:47 AM, said:

India obviously is not an option. It like doing "a bail mujay maar." Means making bad situation into worse. India is one of the reason of destabilizing the region. Read history of Afghanistan from 1930s you will get your answer from there of how India is involved.
I think wide scale cross cultural marriages can be one of the best option but not a practical one.
But if every body realizes that its about their life and death situation, it can be implemented.

If we think about current situations we can come up with lots of ideas.

Your solution is marriage?

Pakistan cannot do it by itself, it needs outside help. Partnering up with India could benefit both countries.

Pakistan has been the root cause for the destabilizing of the region since it's inception (from Afghanistan to Bangladesh). Pakistan will never be able to solve this on it's own.

Anyways, Pakistan has issues, it wouldn't even cooperate with the US to get rid of these extremists. They even jailed the doctor that assisted the capture of Bin Laden.

Edited by Ugly Jinn, 26 May 2012 - 03:24 AM.

[fightingsoul001]

Ugly Jinn, on 26 May 2012 - 03:22 AM, said:

Your solution is marriage?

Pakistan cannot do it by itself, it needs outside help. Partnering up with India could benefit both countries.

Yes, marriages and the reason is because shias are not connected to each other in Pakistan. Sindhi Shia don't even know what Punjabi Shia is up against. Punjabi shia don't know what is happening with patan shia. Patan shia don't know what Gilgiti shias are doing. Even if he is very good shia and know some facts they can't help because he knows nobody.  etc etc  Most Pakistani shia's don't even know where shia lives.

By marriages families will be connected and it would be extremely easy to work as a unit and to help each other in need where required.
If done it can be extremely effective way to solve our current and future problems.

Edited by fightingsoul001, 26 May 2012 - 03:38 AM.

[Ugly Jinn]

^ How does Shias marrying each other deter extremists from killing them?

Do you think a Shia Pathan marrying a Punjabi Shia makes them safer?

[fightingsoul001]

Ugly Jinn, on 26 May 2012 - 03:44 AM, said:

^ How does Shias marrying each other deter extremists from killing them?

Do you think a Shia Pathan marrying a Punjabi Shia makes them safer?

Yes I think Patan marrying Punjabi will make them safer because coordinated activities will be much easier. This way we will be working as a unit for defense of our people. Everyone would be able to participate equally if some lunatics attack our people.
This should be at least first step out of lot of other steps.



Where are you from? brother!

Edited by fightingsoul001, 26 May 2012 - 04:01 AM.

[Marbles]

Ugly Jinn, on 26 May 2012 - 03:22 AM, said:

And it's obvious the Pakistani gov. has cannot control this, rather I sometimes believe they look the other way.

Pakistan cannot do it by itself, it needs outside help. Partnering up with India could benefit both countries.

Pakistan has been the root cause for the destabilizing of the region since it's inception (from Afghanistan to Bangladesh). Pakistan will never be able to solve this on it's own.

Anyways, Pakistan has issues, it wouldn't even cooperate with the US to get rid of these extremists. They even jailed the doctor that assisted the capture of Bin Laden.

It was not Pakistan which invaded Afghanistan in 1979 and it wasn't Pakistan which invaded the same country in 2001. Things were pretty much stable until Soviets entered the ragged terrains of Afghanistan and until Pakistan prostituted itself to your beloved United States. That country's geostrategic importance has been a curse rather than a blessing. So let's not start the game of finding the "root causes" of current instability in the region.

Scapegoating wholesale a particular country or people offers a rather easy and simple explanation to the complex geopolitics of the region and at the same time demonstrates the intellectual inability of the person to take a rather fair view reflective of reality, and deviod of emotionalism and chavinism. Quite like when Europeans blame immigrants for their ills and Arabs blame Israel for their backwardness.

However that is not to say Pakistan isn't guilty of playing a double game with itself, its people and with the world. The current policy of not going after the militants so they can be used as a leverage in Afghanistan is criminal and akin to supporting terrorism. This policy has brought greater harm to Pakistan itself than the establishment could imagine in their wildest dreams.

Edited by Marbles, 27 May 2012 - 06:43 AM.

[Ugly Jinn]

fightingsoul001, on 26 May 2012 - 03:55 AM, said:

Yes I think Patan marrying Punjabi will make them safer because coordinated activities will be much easier. This way we will be working as a unit for defense of our people. Everyone would be able to participate equally if some lunatics attack our people.
This should be at least first step out of lot of other steps.

I really don't know how nicely I can say that this idea is not good.

Pakistan needs outside help, and this idea is proof.

Marbles, on 27 May 2012 - 06:28 AM, said:

It was not Pakistan which invaded Afghanistan in 1979 and it wasn't Pakistan which invaded the same country in 2001. Things were pretty much stable until Soviets entered the ragged terrains of Afghanistan and until Pakistan prostituted itself to your beloved United States. That country's geostrategic importance has been a curse rather than a blessing. So let's not start the game of finding the "root causes" of current instability in the region.

Why do Afghans hate Pakistan? I'll just let an Afghan answer it.

http://www.shiachat....post__p__171262

Edited by Ugly Jinn, 27 May 2012 - 03:53 PM.

[Marbles]

Ugly Jinn, on 27 May 2012 - 03:51 PM, said:

Why do Afghans hate Pakistan? I'll just let an Afghan answer it.

http://www.shiachat....post__p__171262

LOL.

Now should I ask the same question many Americans ask in exasperation: "Why do they hate us"

Obviously, Afghans have a lot to complain about Pakistan foreign policy.

[Ugly Jinn]

Here we go again:

Gunmen kill 3 Shiite Muslims in Pakistan: officials
http://news.yahoo.co...-072236260.html

-----

The longer Pakistan waits to get outside help, the more Shias will be murdered on a regular basis.

Edited by Ugly Jinn, 28 May 2012 - 04:55 AM.

[shah19]

Shias are in a lot of trouble..........i am sure evey shia family would be having a murder case by talibans,wahabis,salafis etc including mine .......the country was made

by a shia and now shia are the ones leaving it.................btw its true a lot of shias are leaving the country,pakistan is going to  be another

malaysia,saudia,etc.......................shais aren't scared,they are way too weak now to fight..........

[Darth Vader]

A lot of Sunnis are also leaving the country. And have been leaving it since the 80s or even before. Those were the wise people. The basic problem is that this country is a puppet state and puppet states, even loyal ones, have always suffered through out history. It's a hell lot cheaper to buy out your generals and political leadership or even to implant morons like Yousaf and Zardari through "deals" than to care for the entire puppet.