45 replies to this topic

[AlwaysChangingHisUserName]

As-Salaamu Alaykum wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatu my dear brothers and sisters.

I would like to tell you a little about me, how I came to Islaam, some things I have learned recently, and some questions that I hope some of you can answer for me.

Around the year 2009 (1430) I had a friend that I had met online (never in person) named Asma.  I was vaguely aware that she was a Muslim, but she didn't . . . ah, abide by the principles of Islaam.  I began to learn about her religion, that I may get to know her better.  After a lot of researching, I joined an Islamic forum (Sunni) and eventually went to the local (Sunni) masjid and did my Shahadah on Eidul Adha 1430 (November 27, 2009).  Before, I say anything else, I would like to point out that the people at the masjid are some of the most genuine people I have ever met.  They do what they do out of Imaan, and not out of hatred.

At the masjid as well as online, I began to hear about this other group of "Muslims" named the Shi'a.  A lot of what I was told was a very negative look at the Shi'a.  I was told that they perverted history, worshipped Ali (r.a.) and his children, created vast shrines to worship them at, participated in self-mortification, as well as forcing bloody injuries onto their young children for Ashura.  The Shi'a were misguided, and were on the same level of filth as Jews, Dogs, Apes, and Swine.  They cursed and hated the Sahaba (r.a.), Aisha (r.a.) and basically any Muslim that wasn't a direct decendent of Muhammad (saw) and Khadija (r.a.).  I accepted most of these things without a second thought.  The Shi'a were abominable, and there was nothing I could do to change that.

However, as I have been learning more and more about Islamic history, I have had to reevaluate my judgment of Shi'a Muslims.  I read a book entitled After the After the Prophet: The Epic Story of the Shia-Sunni Split in Islam by Lesley Hazleton.  It took a look at the history of when Muhammad (saw) died, the fight over succession, how Ali (r.a.) eventually became Caliph/Imam and how his sons Hasan and Hussein reacted and also became leaders, albeit religious instead of political.  From the perspective of that book, Ali was always entitled to become Caliph/Imam, and it was stolen from him!  Abu Bakr, Umar, and Uthman were unworthy of the Caliphate.  

I also talked, today, to this Shi'a girl in my English class (I'm a Junior in high school) about Islaam, and she told me that a lot of what I had in my mind about the Shi'a were not true.  She said that Shi'a only worship Allah (swt) and not the Imams, they bow to Allah (swt) and not the shrines of the Imams, and that Aisha (r.a.) was, in her words, a [Edited Out].  Personally, I agree with the last one.  I can see how she used her status as favourite wife to her advantage, and often twisted things to get her way.  I am still confused on the first two, as well as some additional issues.  I hope it is okay if I leave a bunch of questions that I have about the Shi'a branch.

1) Ali should have been the first Caliph/Imam.  What evidence is there that there would be a total of 12 Imams and that it should pass successively in the order that Shi'as claim it did?

2) Is there any evidence of Khumms in the Qur'an or Hadith.

3) What sets of Hadith do Shi'a accept as Sahih (authentic)?

4) Is self-flaggelation an accpeted practice?  Why?  Do you beat/cut your young children in mourning of Hussein?

5) Why do Shi'a constantly curse the Sahabah that aren't ahlul bayt?  If a person is a close companion of the prophet, they should be recognized as such.

6) Aisha's purity was narrated in Suratul Azhab, after the affair of the necklace.  Why, then, do the Shi'a call her a [Edited Out]?

7) Do the Shi'a worship ahlul bayt or anyone besides Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì?

8) What resources do you recommend I use for further study?

There will probably be more questions to come, but this is all I can think of right now.

I hope my post finds you all in good health and strong imaan.  Forgive me if anything I have said has offended you or is innacurate.  Please point out any mistakes I have made.  I look forward to any responses I receive.  BarakAllah Feek.

Wa alaykum as-salaam.

[Freeurmind]

This is not really answering your questions, however this a really good lecture that clears up all the misconceptions about the shia


Also, I dont think its very Islamic for your muslim group/friends to say Shia or anyone is on the same level of filth as Dogs, Apes, and Swine" .. And also the fact that they use Jews as an insult next dogs and apes, I also find disgusting.

[Shia_Debater]

I will try to answer each question but for some things I have low knowledge.

Abdul Alim, on 24 May 2012 - 11:08 PM, said:

As-Salaamu Alaykum wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatu my dear brothers and sisters.

Wa alaykum as-Salaam wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuh brother

Quote

1) Ali should have been the first Caliph/Imam.  What evidence is there that there would be a total of 12 Imams and that it should pass successively in the order that Shi'as claim it did?

Narrated Jabir bin Samura: I heard Muhammad saying, "The (Islamic) religion will continue until the Hour (day of resurrection), having twelve Caliphs for you, all of them will be from Quraysh."

Sahih Muslim: Book 020: Number 4477, 4478, 4480, 4481, 4482, 4483

As for the 12 Imams and who they are, here is a narration from a Shi`a book which has been graded Sahih (authentic) by Al-Majlisi

http://www.revivinga...explicitly.html

Quote

2) Is there any evidence of Khumms in the Qur'an or Hadith.

Shakir Translation

And know that whatever thing you gain, a fifth of it is for Allah and for the Messenger and for the near of kin and the orphans and the needy and the wayfarer, if you believe in Allah and in that which We revealed to Our servant, on the day of distinction, the day on which the two parties met; and Allah has power over all things.

Surah 8 Verse 41

Though some translators translate it as war booty - I'm not learned in arabic though so I don't know what the correct translation would be

As for narrations on khums, I'm not knowledge in this field and don't know, sorry.

Quote

3) What sets of Hadith do Shi'a accept as Sahih (authentic)?

I don't understand what you mean by sets. If you mean if we have a book like Sahih al-Bukhari then no we don't have a book like that where we say all narrations inside are authentic (as far as I'm aware)

Each narration is authenticated separately

Quote

4) Is self-flaggelation an accpeted practice?  Why?  Do you beat/cut your young children in mourning of Hussein?

There are scholars who say for example tatbir is haram and a bid`a, some will say just haram, some will say its permissible, ive heard a scholar say its mustahab.

This is a fiqhi issue as far as I'm aware.

Personally I say don't view this as something primary, since there are many different views on it and you will find different people saying different things, and as far as I know you don't need to believe or disbelieve in hitting yourself to be any more of a Shi`a.

Quote

5) Why do Shi'a constantly curse the Sahabah that aren't ahlul bayt?  If a person is a close companion of the prophet, they should be recognized as such.

Firstly, we don't constantly curse.
Secondly, we revere companions of the Prophet such as Abu Dujana Abu Dhar Salman al-Farsi , Miqdad , Ammar bin Yassir etc.

We believe many of the sahaba disobeyed the Prophet and went what he said at Ghadeer Khumm, and some of the committed some of the worst atrocities such as Fatima Zahra (sa) being killed, Fadak being usurped etc.

Quote

6) Aisha's purity was narrated in Suratul Azhab, after the affair of the necklace.  Why, then, do the Shi'a call her a [Edited Out]?

I don't know what that edited out word is but if its an insult then we don't insult `A'isha.

We don't accept `A'isha and we view her as a bad person due to the fact that she led a war against Imam Ali , not to mention the 10's of thousands of muslims who died because of this and also this was after her and other wives of the Prophet were commanded to not leave their houses except out of necessity.

Quote

7) Do the Shi'a worship ahlul bayt or anyone besides Allah سبحانه وتعالى?

Nope, we only worship Allah (swt)

Quote

8) What resources do you recommend I use for further study?

http://www.al-islam.org/

This website has tons of books, it's a very good place for further study

Quote

There will probably be more questions to come, but this is all I can think of right now.

Sure

If you have any more questions please don't hesitate to ask

Quote

I hope my post finds you all in good health and strong imaan.  Forgive me if anything I have said has offended you or is innacurate.  Please point out any mistakes I have made.  I look forward to any responses I receive.  BarakAllah Feek.

Your posts haven't offended me in any way and insha'Allah you are in good health and imaan too.

Quote

Wa alaykum as-salaam.

Edited by Shia_Debater, 24 May 2012 - 11:54 PM.

[lemonade]

Asalam o Alikum for your 1st question go to http://en.wikipedia. org/wiki/Hadith_of_the_Twelve_Successors
remove space between . and org.
Answer for your 2nd question

وَاعْلَمُوا أَنَّمَا غَنِمْتُمْ مِنْ شَيْءٍ فَأَنَّ لِلَّهِ خُمُسَهُ وَلِلرَّسُولِ وَلِذِي الْقُرْبَىٰ وَالْيَتَامَىٰ وَالْمَسَاكِينِ وَابْنِ السَّبِيلِ إِنْ كُنْتُمْ آمَنْتُمْ بِاللَّهِ وَمَا أَنْزَلْنَا عَلَىٰ عَبْدِنَا يَوْمَ الْفُرْقَانِ يَوْمَ الْتَقَى الْجَمْعَانِ ۗ وَاللَّهُ عَلَىٰ كُلِّ شَيْءٍ قَدِيرٌ {41}
[ 8:41] And know that whatever thing you gain, a fifth of it is for Allah and for the Messenger and for the near of kin and the orphans and the needy and the wayfarer, if you believe in Allah and in that which We revealed to Our servant, on the day of distinction, the day on which the two parties met; and Allah has power over all things.
For your 5th question we dont curse sahaba of holy prophet we only curse munafiqun(hypocrites).There are many sahabas that we love them so much like abuzar,salman etc.watch this video

for your 6th question we dont call aisha wife of holy prophet [Edited Out] or something like that it is confirmed in our religion that she was not involved in such stuffs the reason we dont like her is that she fight against Hazrat Ali(A.S).And both sunni and shia agree on these story you can search that on google "aisha against ali".
for your 7th question we dont worship any one besides Allah nor even ahlulbayt .Yet worship has different meaning for some closed minded sects like wahabi/salafi etc who says that we should only ask Allah for help and sometimes they self interperate 5th verse of 1st surah of quran "we only worship you and ask you for help" so how it looks like if I say "dont go to doctor for treatment only ask Allah to cure you" Isn't it sound ignorance?
sorry for any grammatical mistakes and I suggest you if you want to learn shia islam please contact any authentic shia alim to know further or read authentic shia books.
Also watch this video to know more about the authencity of our school

and please dont learn our religion from others.There are many minsconceptions about shia islam many people think that shia believe Ali is more than prophet or shia think that quran in incomplete etc etc which are all false claims.

For your third question it isn't part of our believe it is not the base of our school it is the best way to search the reality of any religion or school by studying their beliefs how do they prove their religion or school fact by logical debates etc.It is practice issue not our aqeedah(belief).Our different Maraja(jurists) have different opinion about this some may say it is not permissble and some of them may allow it.There is a philosphy behind it which I can not explain you here.

[Qa'im]

Abdul Alim, on 24 May 2012 - 11:08 PM, said:

1) Ali should have been the first Caliph/Imam.  What evidence is there that there would be a total of 12 Imams and that it should pass successively in the order that Shi'as claim it did?

Wa `alaykum as-salaam. Welcome to the forum. Shia_Debater did an excellent job handling your questions, I will just add to the first point.

It is first relevant to look at who the Qur'an tells us to obey and receive our knowledge from. "...Ask the People of the Reminder if you know not" (16:43) We believe that the People of the Reminder are the Ahl al-Bayt . It is upon us to ask them about religious issues.

Allah speaks about the Qur'an and its use of fundamental and allegorical verses. He says, "He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book: In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book: others are allegorical. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah and those who are firmly grounded in knowledge..." (3:7) This group described at the end of the verse, who Allah describes as a group that is delved into knowledge, consists of Muhammad and the Ahl al-Bayt .

Allah commanded full obedience to the Ahl al-Bayt when He revealed, "O ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the messenger and those of you who are in authority; and if ye have a dispute concerning any matter, refer it to Allah and the messenger if ye are (in truth) believers in Allah and the Last Day. That is better and more seemly in the end." (4:59) We see that the Qur'an uses the same "obey" for the Messenger and those in authority, meaning the obedience we give to both are identical. Just as we obey Muhammad in all matters, we are to obey the latter figures in a similar way. These are the Imams of Ahl al-Bayt, who Allah has positioned to rule over the Muslims and interpret Islam to us.

Furthermore, we are to return our matters to the Prophet and the Imams as per the following ayah: "And if any tidings, whether of safety or fear, come unto them, they noise it abroad, whereas if they had referred it to the messenger and such of them as are in authority, those among them who are able to think out the matter would have known it. If it had not been for the grace of Allah and His mercy ye would have followed Satan, save a few (of you). (4:83)

The identification of `Ali as the first Caliph, as selected by Allah through His Prophet , occurred at the Farewell Pilgrimage (Hajj). The announcement was made at Ghadir Khumm and was witnessed by thousands of people. The hadith was transmitted through many authentic chains, and in our view, Allah commanded the Prophet to make this announcement in Surat al-Ma'ida: "O Messenger! Make known that which hath been revealed unto thee from thy Lord (about Ali), for if thou do it not, thou will not have conveyed His message. Allah will protect thee from mankind. Lo! Allah guideth not the disbelieving folk." (5:67) The wilaya (guardianship) of Imam `Ali was the last Islamic obligation made by the Prophet. The hadith can be found below:

O people, Allah the Most Kind the Omniscient has told me that no apostle lives to more than half the age of him who had preceded him. I think I am about to be called (die) and thus I must respond. I am responsible and you are responsible, then what do you say?’ They said, ‘We witness that you have informed, advised and striven. May Allah bless you.’ He said, ‘Do you not bear witness that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is His servant and Apostle, and that His Heaven is true, His Hell is true, death is true, the Resurrection after death is true, that there is no doubt that the Day of Judgment will come, and that Allah will resurrect the dead from their graves?’ They said, ‘Yes, we bear witness’. He said, ‘O Allah, bear witness.’ Then he said, ‘O people, Allah is my Lord and I am the lord of the believers. I am worthier of believers than themselves. Of whomsoever I had been Master (Mawla), Ali here is to be his Master. O Allah, be a supporter of whoever supports him (Ali) and an enemy of whoever opposes him.

The significance of this hadith is that the Prophet identified that his mastership extends over the selves of the believers; and that his mastership extends to `Ali. This means, `Ali is the master of all believing men and women in the same way the Prophet is. They both represent the mastership of God on earth.

Furthermore, we find ahadith that support the Imamate of the 12 Imams. As SD posted, the Prophet said: "The (Islamic) religion will continue until the Hour (day of resurrection), having twelve Caliphs for you, all of them will be from Quraysh." These cannot be the Sunni Caliphs, as there have been many dozens and the Hour has not passed. Rather, it is the 12th Imam, and we await the return of the 12th. The Prophet also guaranteed that there would always be a Caliph among the Muslims, and nothing can change that. But who is the Caliph today? For us Shi`a, it is the Mahdi.  "It has been narrated on the authority of 'Abdullah that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: The Caliphate will remain among the Quraish even if only two persons are left (on the earth)".

The Prophet told us to hold onto two things (thaqalayn). The Sunnis popularly know this as the Qur'an and Sunna, however, this formula is not found in a single authentic narration. Rather, many authentic hadiths say that the two are the Qur'an and Ahl al-Bayt. "The Messenger of Allah - may Allah bestow peace and benedictions upon him and his Progeny - said: "Verily, I am leaving behind two precious things (thaqalayn) among you: the Book of God and my kindred (`itrah), my household (Ahl al­Bayt), for indeed, the two will never separate until they come back to me by the Pond" The significance of this hadith is the guarantee that the Qur'an and Ahl al-Bayt are not only the two sources of Islam, but that the two are one and the same. You cannot understand the Qur'an without Ahl al-Bayt, and you cannot understand Ahl al-Bayt without the Qur'an. The two compliment each other and are held onto.

Lastly, the recognition of the Imam is wajib. The Imam is our leader in the political and spiritual spheres, and he is the protector and surveyor of the Qur'an and the Sunna. The Prophet said: "Whoso dies and does not recognize the Imam of his time has died the death of jahaliyya" (Ahmad b. Hanbal, al-Musnad, p. 96.)

Edited by Qa'im, 25 May 2012 - 01:12 AM.

[Jaysro]

Hehe, I see I don't need to add much Mash'alaah

Brother Abdul Alim, Imam Jafar al sadiq used to say: Veryily knowledge is a lock and its key is the question. (he was the teacher of Abu Hanifah who later started the hanafi school of thought that most of sunnies follow today)

keep searching for more Ilm (knowledge) and don't just take info from shia nor just from sunnies. In the end its not us who lead you to the truth! Even Allah won't lead u unless you ask him to lead you (its your free choice).

Open your locks and ask questions, and if you feel confused just ask Allah for guidance and be honest to yourself.

Salaam

[Freeurmind]

Jaysro, on 25 May 2012 - 04:40 AM, said:

Hehe, I see I don't need to add much Mash'alaah

Brother Abdul Alim, Imam Jafar al sadiq used to say: Veryily knowledge is a lock and its key is the question. (he was the teacher of Abu Hanifah who later started the hanafi school of thought that most of sunnies follow today)

keep searching for more Ilm (knowledge) and don't just take info from shia nor just from sunnies. In the end its not us who lead you to the truth! Even Allah won't lead u unless you ask him to lead you (its your free choice).

Open your locks and ask questions, and if you feel confused just ask Allah for guidance and be honest to yourself.

Salaam

But also if you choose to stay with the people you are now just know calling jews and shias dogs is not very islamic

[AlwaysChangingHisUserName]

Freeurmind, on 24 May 2012 - 11:44 PM, said:

This is not really answering your questions, however this a really good lecture that clears up all the misconceptions about the shia

JazakAllahu Khair.  Insh'Allah I will watch this video later today when I have the opportunity to use the sound on my computer.

Freeurmind, on 24 May 2012 - 11:44 PM, said:

Also, I dont think its very Islamic for your muslim group/friends to say Shia or anyone is on the same level of filth as Dogs, Apes, and Swine" .. And also the fact that they use Jews as an insult next dogs and apes, I also find disgusting.

I agree with you.  I think the reason they compared them (Shia and Jews) to such things is because of the supposed attrocities that each group comitted.  The Jews are (currently) killing Muslims with their Zionist state (Israel), Christians killed Muslims during the Crusades, and the Shi'a . . . well, I'm not really sure.  I figure a lot of the things I have been told aren't true.  I'll listen to your video later, but it sounds like only a small group of people do the things I hear about.  And I don't think the Shi'a have killed Muslims needlessly . . . to the best of my knowledge.

Shia_Debater, on 24 May 2012 - 11:53 PM, said:

I will try to answer each question but for some things I have low knowledge.


Wa alaykum as-Salaam wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuh brother


Narrated Jabir bin Samura: I heard Muhammad saying, "The (Islamic) religion will continue until the Hour (day of resurrection), having twelve Caliphs for you, all of them will be from Quraysh."

Sahih Muslim: Book 020: Number 4477, 4478, 4480, 4481, 4482, 4483

As for the 12 Imams and who they are, here is a narration from a Shi`a book which has been graded Sahih (authentic) by Al-Majlisi

http://www.revivinga...explicitly.html

JazakAllahu Khair for posting the hadith bro . . .  It sort of surprises me that the Hadith is in Sahih Muslim, because Sahih Muslim and Sahih Bukhari are the only two books that Sunnis accept as absolutely authentic (others are authentic, but on a smaller level).  I was told that there were only 4 rashidun (divinely guided Caliph's), and innummerable other Caliph's like Muawiya that were not divinely guided.

Shia_Debater, on 24 May 2012 - 11:53 PM, said:

Shakir Translation

And know that whatever thing you gain, a fifth of it is for Allah and for the Messenger and for the near of kin and the orphans and the needy and the wayfarer, if you believe in Allah and in that which We revealed to Our servant, on the day of distinction, the day on which the two parties met; and Allah has power over all things.

Surah 8 Verse 41

Though some translators translate it as war booty - I'm not learned in arabic though so I don't know what the correct translation would be

As for narrations on khums, I'm not knowledge in this field and don't know, sorry.

I was always told that it was for war booty only.  You pay 2.5% (zakat) on all of your income, and 20% on the spoils of war.  Could someone please clarify this for me?  Are we required to pay 20% on everything PLUS 2.5%?  Or is it only on the surplus after our living expenses are paid?

Shia_Debater, on 24 May 2012 - 11:53 PM, said:

I don't understand what you mean by sets. If you mean if we have a book like Sahih al-Bukhari then no we don't have a book like that where we say all narrations inside are authentic (as far as I'm aware)

Each narration is authenticated separately

Ah, okay.  The reason Sunnis have Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim (as well as other books of Hadith) is because some scholars a long time ago collected the ahadith and verified them for authenticity.  Bukhari and Muslim then just put the authentic ones they collected into a book, so that it would be easier to find ahadith.

Shia_Debater, on 24 May 2012 - 11:53 PM, said:

There are scholars who say for example tatbir is haram and a bid`a, some will say just haram, some will say its permissible, ive heard a scholar say its mustahab.

This is a fiqhi issue as far as I'm aware.

Personally I say don't view this as something primary, since there are many different views on it and you will find different people saying different things, and as far as I know you don't need to believe or disbelieve in hitting yourself to be any more of a Shi`a.

To turn us off from the Shi'a, Sunnis would often show images of huge groups of Shi'a hutting or cutting themselves, and their children as well.  I was really disturbed by the image of very bloody infants.  I'm glad it's not clearcut wajib.

Shia_Debater, on 24 May 2012 - 11:53 PM, said:

Firstly, we don't constantly curse.
Secondly, we revere companions of the Prophet such as Abu Dujana Abu Dhar Salman al-Farsi , Miqdad , Ammar bin Yassir etc.

We believe many of the sahaba disobeyed the Prophet and went what he said at Ghadeer Khumm, and some of the committed some of the worst atrocities such as Fatima Zahra (sa) being killed, Fadak being usurped etc.

This makes sense.  Thanks for clarifying.

Shia_Debater, on 24 May 2012 - 11:53 PM, said:

I don't know what that edited out word is but if its an insult then we don't insult `A'isha.

We don't accept `A'isha and we view her as a bad person due to the fact that she led a war against Imam Ali , not to mention the 10's of thousands of muslims who died because of this and also this was after her and other wives of the Prophet were commanded to not leave their houses except out of necessity.

Yes, it was an insult.  It was a slur referring to a promiscuous woman.

I agree that her waging war on Ali was a very evil thing.  That's one of the things I really like about Ali (a.s.) is that when he wasn't given what was rightly his (Caliphate/Imamate) he sat by peacefully until it was his turn.  He didn't wage violent war against fellow mu'mineen over jealousy or anger.

Shia_Debater, on 24 May 2012 - 11:53 PM, said:

Nope, we only worship Allah (swt)

That's what the girl I was referring to earlier (the Shi'a) said, as well.  That brings me into my next question.  This goes for both Sunnis and Shi'as.  Why are there so many lavish shrines for the Nabi (saw) and the Imam's?  Muahmmad was buried simply in the floor of Aisha's home.  Ali wanted his burial to be the same, simple and without lavish.  Why then, do we now build extravagent shrines around them?  Does that not promote idolatry?  I also question the extreme show of wealth at Makkah.  The Kaa'bah is adorned with gold, which I don't think Muhammad (saw) would have wanted.  Masjid al-haraam is very lavish.  Have you seen the new clocktower?  It monsters over the haraam and kaa'bah.  I don't think this is right . . .

Shia_Debater, on 24 May 2012 - 11:53 PM, said:

http://www.al-islam.org/

This website has tons of books, it's a very good place for further study

I will have a look Insh'Allah.

Shia_Debater, on 24 May 2012 - 11:53 PM, said:

Sure

If you have any more questions please don't hesitate to ask

Thanks again, so much.  I was worried that I would be met with hostilities, and I'm glad that I wasn't.  JazakAllahu Khair.

---

Ahlulbayt~lover, on 25 May 2012 - 12:41 AM, said:

Asalam o Alikum for your 1st question go to http://en.wikipedia. org/wiki/Hadith_of_the_Twelve_Successors
remove space between . and org.

JazakAllahu Khair.  I was have a look at that later InshAllah when I have more time.

Ahlulbayt~lover, on 25 May 2012 - 12:41 AM, said:

Answer for your 2nd question

æóÇÚúáóãõæÇ ÃóäøóãóÇ ÛóäöãúÊõãú ãöäú ÔóíúÁò ÝóÃóäøó áöáøóåö ÎõãõÓóåõ æóáöáÑøóÓõæáö æóáöÐöí ÇáúÞõÑúÈóìٰ æóÇáúíóÊóÇãóìٰ æóÇáúãóÓóÇßöíäö æóÇÈúäö ÇáÓøóÈöíáö Åöäú ßõäúÊõãú ÂãóäúÊõãú ÈöÇááøóåö æóãóÇ ÃóäúÒóáúäóÇ Úóáóìٰ ÚóÈúÏöäóÇ íóæúãó ÇáúÝõÑúÞóÇäö íóæúãó ÇáúÊóÞóì ÇáúÌóãúÚóÇäö ۗ æóÇááøóåõ Úóáóìٰ ßõáøö ÔóíúÁò ÞóÏöíÑñ {41}
[ 8:41] And know that whatever thing you gain, a fifth of it is for Allah and for the Messenger and for the near of kin and the orphans and the needy and the wayfarer, if you believe in Allah and in that which We revealed to Our servant, on the day of distinction, the day on which the two parties met; and Allah has power over all things.

I appreciate the quote from the Qur'an.  How, then, does Khums work?

Ahlulbayt~lover, on 25 May 2012 - 12:41 AM, said:

For your 5th question we dont curse sahaba of holy prophet we only curse munafiqun(hypocrites).There are many sahabas that we love them so much like abuzar,salman etc.watch this video

Why is it good to curse the hypocrites.  Obviously you want to show others why they are hypocrites, so that they wont be deceived, but why curse them?!

Ahlulbayt~lover, on 25 May 2012 - 12:41 AM, said:

for your 6th question we dont call aisha wife of holy prophet [Edited Out] or something like that it is confirmed in our religion that she was not involved in such stuffs the reason we dont like her is that she fight against Hazrat Ali(A.S).And both sunni and shia agree on these story you can search that on google "aisha against ali".

Yeah, I've heard about that.  I don't know why Sunnis don't confront this issue.  I hadn't even heard abotu it until I read the book After the Prophet.  Turns out, it's real history.

Ahlulbayt~lover, on 25 May 2012 - 12:41 AM, said:

for your 7th question we dont worship any one besides Allah nor even ahlulbayt .Yet worship has different meaning for some closed minded sects like wahabi/salafi etc who says that we should only ask Allah for help and sometimes they self interperate 5th verse of 1st surah of quran "we only worship you and ask you for help" so how it looks like if I say "dont go to doctor for treatment only ask Allah to cure you" Isn't it sound ignorance?
sorry for any grammatical mistakes and I suggest you if you want to learn shia islam please contact any authentic shia alim to know further or read authentic shia books.
Also watch this video to know more about the authencity of our school

I understand what you're saying, but asking a doctor for help is different than asking an Imam for help.  The Imam's (except, potentially, the 12th) are dead.  They can't do anything for us, until the day of judgment.

Ahlulbayt~lover, on 25 May 2012 - 12:41 AM, said:

and please dont learn our religion from others.There are many minsconceptions about shia islam many people think that shia believe Ali is more than prophet or shia think that quran in incomplete etc etc which are all false claims.

I have heard those rumours, as well.  Thank for for advising me not to listen to them.

Ahlulbayt~lover, on 25 May 2012 - 12:41 AM, said:

For your third question it isn't part of our believe it is not the base of our school it is the best way to search the reality of any religion or school by studying their beliefs how do they prove their religion or school fact by logical debates etc.It is practice issue not our aqeedah(belief).Our different Maraja(jurists) have different opinion about this some may say it is not permissble and some of them may allow it.There is a philosphy behind it which I can not explain you here.

BarakAllah Feek for all of your answers.  They have been very helpful.

---

Qa, on 25 May 2012 - 01:07 AM, said:

Wa `alaykum as-salaam. Welcome to the forum. Shia_Debater did an excellent job handling your questions, I will just add to the first point.

Forgive me for not giving an adequate response now.  I am in a slight hurry to get to school this morning, so Insh'Allah I will take extra time this afternoon to read all of the quotes you posted and respond properly.

---

Jaysro, on 25 May 2012 - 04:40 AM, said:

Hehe, I see I don't need to add much Mash'alaah

Brother Abdul Alim, Imam Jafar al sadiq used to say: Veryily knowledge is a lock and its key is the question. (he was the teacher of Abu Hanifah who later started the hanafi school of thought that most of sunnies follow today)

keep searching for more Ilm (knowledge) and don't just take info from shia nor just from sunnies. In the end its not us who lead you to the truth! Even Allah won't lead u unless you ask him to lead you (its your free choice).

Open your locks and ask questions, and if you feel confused just ask Allah for guidance and be honest to yourself.

Salaam

JazakAllahu Khair for the reminder bro.  Even when it seems like it, no man has all of the answers, and we must look towards Allah Insh'Allah.

[AlwaysChangingHisUserName]

Freeurmind, on 25 May 2012 - 08:43 AM, said:

But also if you choose to stay with the people you are now just know calling jews and shias dogs is not very islamic

I agree.  Thank you so much for your response, akhi.  I will keep it in mind.

[Rasul]

Maybe this would also help insh'Allah

ثنا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ الْمُثَنَّى ، حَدَّثَنَا يَحْيَى بْنُ حَمَّادٍ ، عَنْ أَبِي عَوَانَةَ ، عَنْ يَحْيَى بْنِ سُلَيْمٍ أَبِي بَلْجٍ ، عَنْ عَمْرِو بْنِ مَيْمُونٍ ، عَنِ ابْنِ عَبَّاسٍ ، قَالَ : قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ لِعَلِيٍّ : " أَنْتَ مِنِّي بِمَنْزِلَةِ هَارُونَ مِنْ مُوسَى ، إِلا أَنَّكَ لَسْتَ نَبِيًّا ، إِنَّهُ لا يَنْبَغِي أَنْ أَذْهَبَ إِلا وَأَنْتَ خَلِيفَتِي فِي كُلِّ مُؤْمِنٍ مِنْ بَعْدِي

Narrated from Ibn Abbas: The Messenger of Allah said to Ali: "You are to me like Harun in relation to Moses, the only difference is that there is no Prophet after me. And truly I ought to go only if you're my Caliph for every believer after me. "

Al-Sunnah by Ibn Abi Asim Vol 3, page 183

→ Zilalatil Jannah Fi Tahridzhis Sunnah by Albani page 519-520 Hadith Number # 1188

'Isnaad is valid and transmitters are reliable'

[Al-MuHammadee]

brother,

First and foremost, welcome to Islām. May you attain eternal bliss through it.

This is the way I hope you should approach the whole issue. During the Farewell Hajj of the Prophet , he gave an order that MOST Muslims today have refused to follow. Shaykh al-Albānī records that the Prophet said at ‘Arafat during his Farewell Hajj:

يا أيها الناس ! إني قد تركت فيكم ما إن أخذتم به لن تضلوا ؛ كتاب الله وعترتي أهل بيتي صحيح

O mankind! I have left among you what if you hold fast to it you will never go astray: the Book of Allāh AND my Ahl al-Bayt. (Sahīh)
Muhammad Nāsir al-Dīn al-Albānī, al-Silsilah al-Ahādīth al-Sahīhah (Riyadh: Maktabah al-Ma’ārif), vol. 4, p. 355, # 1761; Muhammad Nāsir al-Dīn al-Albānī, Sahīh Sunan al-Tirmidhī (Riyadh: Maktabah al-Ma’ārif; 1420 H), vol. 3, p. 542, # 3786

You will notice that Shaykh al-Albānī has graded the hadīth as sahīh. This is an explicit instruction from the Messenger of Allāh to ALL OF MANKIND, including ALL the Sahābah, all the Tābi'īn, and all later generations. We all must follow BOTH the Qur’ān and the Ahl al-Bayt for guidance after him. The Book of Allah alone is NOT enough, and the Ahl al-Bayt alone are NOT enough. Both MUST be followed together. Just ask yourself, what percentage of Muslims today are following BOTH the Qur’ān and the Ahl al-Bayt ? In any case, whosoever is not doing this, and has disobeyed the Prophet, is in misguidance according to the Qur’ān (33:36):

وما كان لمؤمن ولا مؤمنة إذا قضى الله ورسوله أمراً أن يكون لهم الخيرة من أمرهم، ومن يعص الله ورسوله فقد ضل ضلالاً مبينا

It is not for a male or female believer that when Allāh and His Messenger have decided a matter that they should have any choice in their affair. Whosoever disobeys Allāh and His Messenger, then he has gone astray in a clear MISGUIDANCE.

Most of the Sahābah disobeyed the Prophet . Interestingly, Sunnīs follow them in this misguidance.

The Prophet later went ahead to REPEAT this message at Ghadīr Khumm. Shaykh al-Albānī records that he said there:

حدثنا علي بن المنذر الكوفي ، حدثنا محمد بن فضيل حدثنا الأعمش عن عطية عن أبي سعيد ، والأعمش عن حبيب بن أبي ثابت عن زيد بن أرقم قالا : قال رسول الله : إني تارك فيكم ما إن تمسكتم به لن تضلوا بعدي ، أحدهما أعظم من الآخر : كتاب الله حبل ممدود من السماء إلى الأرض وعترتي أهل بيتي ، ولن يفترقا حتى يردا علي الحوض ، فانظروا كيف تخلفوني فيهما صحيح

Narrated Abū Sa’īd AND Zayd bin Arqam:

Allāh’s Apostle said: “I will leave among you what if you adhere to it you will never go astray after me. One of them BOTH is greater than the other: the Book of Allāh, a rope stretching from the heavens to the earth, AND my ‘itrah, my Ahl al-Bayt. Both shall NEVER separate until they meet me at the Lake-Font. Watch carefully how you treat them both after me. (Sahīh)
Muhammad Nāsir al-Dīn al-Albānī, Sahīh Sunan al-Tirmidhī (Riyadh: Maktabah al-Ma’ārif; 1420 H), vol. 3, p. 543, # 3788

Why the repetition? The Prophet wanted to emphasize the extreme importance of following the Qur’ān and the Ahl al-Bayt . Note that he also stated that both of them shall never separate. In other words, you can never pick the Qur’ān and neglect the Ahl al-Bayt . If you pick one and leave the other, you are in a clear misguidance.

The Prophet still went ahead to declare that his true successors are only the Qur’ān and the Ahl al-Bayt . Shaykh al-Albānī records:

إني تارك فيكم خليفتين : كتاب الله حبل ممدود ما بين السماء و الأرض و عترتي أهل بيتي و إنهما لن يتفرقا حتى يردا علي الحوضصحيح

I will leave among you two Khalīfahs: the Book of Allāh, a rope stretching between the heaven and the earth, and my ‘itrah, my Ahl al-Bayt. Both shall never separate until they meet me at the Lake-Font. (Sahīh)
Muhammad Nāsir al-Dīn al-Albānī, Sahīh wa Da’īf al-Jāmi’ al-Saghīr wa Ziyādatuh (al-Maktab al-Islāmī), vol. 1, p. 423, # 4222

Just think about these things. Sunnī refusal to obey these ahādīth, and Shī’ah insistence on following them are the causes of all the Sunnī-Shī’ah conflicts you see around.

Edited by Al-MuHammadee, 25 May 2012 - 10:54 AM.

[Al-MuHammadee]

I feel that I must also mention how the Sunnī sect started. As you see above, Allāh and His Messenger ordered the Ummah to follow the Qur’ān AND the Ahl al-Bayt to be free from misguidance after him. During his last moments, the Messenger of Allāh attempted to put it in written form. Imām al-Bukhārī records:

حدثنا إبراهيم بن موسى حدثنا هشام عن معمر . وحدثني عبد الله بن محمد حدثنا عبد الرزاق أخبرنا معمر عن الزهري عن عبيد الله بن عبد الله عن ابن عباس رضي الله عنهما قال : لما حضر رسول الله صلى الله عليه و سلم وفي البيت رجال فيهم عمر بن الخطاب قال النبي صلى الله عليه و سلم ) هلم أكتب لكم كتابا لا تضلوا بعده . (فقال عمر إن النبي صلى الله عليه و سلم قد غلب عليه الوجع وعندكم القرآن حسبنا كتاب الله . فاختلف أهل البيت فاختصموا منهم من يقول قربوا يكتب لكم النبي صلى الله عليه و سلم كتابا لن تضلوا بعده ومنهم من يقول ما قال عمر فلما أكثروا اللغو والاختلاف عند النبي صلى الله عليه و سلم قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه و سلم ( قوموا ) قال عبيد الله فكان ابن عباس يقول إن الرزية كل الرزية ما حال بين رسول الله صلى الله عليه و سلم وبين أن يكتب لهم ذلك الكتاب من اختلافهم ولغطهم

Narrated Ibn ‘Abbās, may Allāh be pleased with him:

When Allāh’s Apostle, peace be upon him, was present, and it in house (present with him) were men, including ‘Umar bin al-Khattāb. The Prophet, peace be upon him, said: “Come. Let me write for you a document THAT YOU WILL NEVER GO ASTRAY AFTER IT.” Then ‘Umar said: “Verily, sickness has OVERPOWERED the Prophet, peace be upon him, and you have the Qur’ān with you. The Qur’ān is sufficient for us.”

The people in the house disagreed and argued. Some of them said: “Move closer and let the Prophet, peace be upon him, write a document for you after which you will never go astray.” Others said what ‘Umar said.

When their noise and disagreement became much in the presence of the Prophet, peace be upon him, Allāh’s Apostle, peace be upon him, said: “Leave”.

‘Ubayd Allāh said: Ibn ‘Abbās used to say “The tragedy of all tragedies that prevented Allāh’s Apostle from writing that document for them due to their disagreement and noise.”
Abū ‘Abd Allāh Muhammad bin Ismā’īl al-Bukhārī, al-Jāmi’ al-Sahīh (Beirut: Dār Ibn Kathīr; 3^rd edition, 1407 H) [annotator: Dr. Mustafā Dīb al-Baghā], vol. 5, p. 2146, # 5345

The incident is the tragedy of all tragedies. The Prophet wanted to help all generations of Islām till Qiyāmah. But his Sahābah disagreed and quarrelled over his simple order. ‘Umar claimed that sickness had overpowered him in response to his order, and on that premise rejected it and submitted an alternative: the Qur’ān only! It is obvious that by saying that the sickness had overpowered him, ‘Umar was suggesting that the Prophet was mentally ill and did not know what he was saying. Imām al-Bukhārī confirms this:

حدثنا قبيصة حدثنا ابن عيينة عن سليمان الأحول عن سعيد ابن جبير عن ابن عباس رضي الله عنهما أنه قال يوم الخميس وما يوم الخميس ثم بكى حتى خضب دمعه الحصباء فقال : اشتد برسول الله صلى الله عليه و سلم وجعه يوم الخميس فقال) ائتوني بكتاب أكتب لكم كتابا لن تضلوا بعده أبدا. فتنازعوا ولا ينبغي عند نبي تنازع فقالوا هجر رسول الله صلى الله عليه و سلم قال دعوني فالذي أنا فيه خير مما تدعونني إليه

Narrated Sa’īd bin Jubayr:

I heard Ibn 'Abbās saying, "Thursday! And you know not what Thursday is? After that Ibn 'Abbās wept till the stones on the ground were soaked with his tears. On that I asked Ibn 'Abbas, "What is (about) Thursday?" He said, "When the condition (i.e. health) of Allāh's Apostle deteriorated, he said, 'Bring me a bone of scapula, so that I may write something for you AFTER WHICH YOU WILL NEVER GO ASTRAY.' The people differed in their opinions although it was improper to differ in front of a prophet. They said, “Allāh’s Apostle is MENTALLY ILL!” The Prophet replied, 'Leave me, for I am in a better state than what you attributing to me.'”
Abū ‘Abd Allāh Muhammad bin Ismā’īl al-Bukhārī, al-Jāmi’ al-Sahīh (Beirut: Dār Ibn Kathīr; 3^rd edition, 1407 H) [annotator: Dr. Mustafā Dīb al-Baghā], vol. 3, p. 1111, # 2888

This was how the Ummah split between those who follow the will of the Prophet (i.e. the Shī’ah) and those who reject it (i.e. the Sunnīs).

Edited by Al-MuHammadee, 25 May 2012 - 11:13 AM.

[muslimunity1]

Aslamalaykum,

@Qa'im & Al-MuHammadee

JazakAllah khayr brothers, mashAllah very informative. Keep up the good work

[Dar'ul_Islam]

Welcome to the forum Brother.

For your khums questions, Khums is taken from your increase in wealth after a year, 20%. Also, Zakaah in our fiqh is not based on our total income, but only certain wealth assets. All of these rules are outlined our ahaadeeth that have come from the Pure Imams [as].

Quote

Why is it good to curse the hypocrites. Obviously you want to show others why they are hypocrites, so that they wont be deceived, but why curse them?!

La`an or "cursing" is part of the Sunnah of Allah and His Messenger [sawa] and the example was further carried out by our Imams [as]. Cursing someone, asking Allah (swt) to withdraw mercy from them, is part of tabarra or dissociation. It is fardh to disassociate from the enemies of Allah [swt] and His Prophet [sawa], doing du`a against the enemies is just one way and this create a psychology barrier from you accepting evil people in your heart and mind.

Quote

I understand what you're saying, but asking a doctor for help is different than asking an Imam for help. The Imam's (except, potentially, the 12th) are dead. They can't do anything for us, until the day of judgment.

I think what is being referenced here is tawassul or istighaatha. It is established from the sources that the dead hear. When people ask from the Prophet [sawa] or an Imam [as], they are asking them with the intention of intermediation. So they are asking Allah [swt] through the dua for the Prophet [sawa], for example. The Ahlulbayt [as] are all martyrs and so they are not "dead" as the Qur'an says. This practice is not a pillar of the faith or necessary, many Imami Shias I know do not do this or if they do they only do it with a formula of certain words as to make their words and intentions perfectly clear.

I hope this was beneficial, bi-idhnillah.

Ýí ÇãÇä Çááå

[Ali Musaaa :)]

Abdul Alim, on 24 May 2012 - 11:08 PM, said:

1) Ali should have been the first Caliph/Imam.  What evidence is there that there would be a total of 12 Imams and that it should pass successively in the order that Shi'as claim it did?

2) Is there any evidence of Khumms in the Qur'an or Hadith.

3) What sets of Hadith do Shi'a accept as Sahih (authentic)?

4) Is self-flaggelation an accpeted practice?  Why?  Do you beat/cut your young children in mourning of Hussein?

5) Why do Shi'a constantly curse the Sahabah that aren't ahlul bayt?  If a person is a close companion of the prophet, they should be recognized as such.

6) Aisha's purity was narrated in Suratul Azhab, after the affair of the necklace.  Why, then, do the Shi'a call her a [Edited Out]?

7) Do the Shi'a worship ahlul bayt or anyone besides Allah سبحانه وتعالى?

8) What resources do you recommend I use for further study?

There will probably be more questions to come, but this is all I can think of right now.

I hope my post finds you all in good health and strong imaan.  Forgive me if anything I have said has offended you or is innacurate.  Please point out any mistakes I have made.  I look forward to any responses I receive.  BarakAllah Feek.

Wa alaykum as-salaam.

Abdul Alim, on 24 May 2012 - 11:08 PM, said:

.  

1) Ali should have been the first Caliph/Imam.  What evidence is there that there would be a total of 12 Imams and that it should pass successively in the order that Shi'as claim it did?

2) Is there any evidence of Khumms in the Qur'an or Hadith.

3) What sets of Hadith do Shi'a accept as Sahih (authentic)?

4) Is self-flaggelation an accpeted practice?  Why?  Do you beat/cut your young children in mourning of Hussein?

5) Why do Shi'a constantly curse the Sahabah that aren't ahlul bayt?  If a person is a close companion of the prophet, they should be recognized as such.

6) Aisha's purity was narrated in Suratul Azhab, after the affair of the necklace.  Why, then, do the Shi'a call her a [Edited Out]?

7) Do the Shi'a worship ahlul bayt or anyone besides Allah سبحانه وتعالى?

8) What resources do you recommend I use for further study?

There will probably be more questions to come, but this is all I can think of right now.

I hope my post finds you all in good health and strong imaan.  Forgive me if anything I have said has offended you or is innacurate.  Please point out any mistakes I have made.  I look forward to any responses I receive.  BarakAllah Feek.

Wa alaykum as-salaam.

Salaam alaykum

Firstly I want to say welcome to this site, inshAllah you will meet some good Brothers and Sisters who are eager to quench their thirst for knowledge.

I also want to point out that the Brothers who posted above are much more knowledgable than I am and they have provided you with some very excellent responses but inshAllah I may be able to add to the issue.


1) There are many narrations and other forms of evidence that proves Imam Ali was the successor of the Holy Prophet (pbuh&hf). Brother Qa'im mentioned the event of Ghadeer Khum, which he shed much light on the event that took place but I want to point out that this event was merely the 'icing on the cake' as Seyed Ammar Nakshawani stated (I advice you to look him up. He is a brilliant lecturer)

Go to:    http://www.sayedamma...mmarnakshc.html & http://ammarnakshawani.thaqlain.com/

I will mention briefly something Brother Qa'im didn't mention, or that I missed if he indeed did mention this. The event of Ghadeer is rhe most narrated event in Islamic history (according to my knowledge, I apologise if I am incorrect) and no sane Muslim will deny the event. The Hadith states along the lines of: "...these two (Qur'an and AhlulBayt will never separate until they come back to me by the by the Pond." Meaning that there will always be an Imam who is from the AhlulBayt present on earth until the day of judgement or should be said, until they both return back to the Pond and that you cannot just use Quran and ignore AhlulBayt and you cannot ignore Quran and seek guidance

We need to look no further than the Qur'an to prove the Wilayah of Ali Ibn Abi Talib . For example, the Qur'an states that it is Allah who chooses who the Caliph of His earth is and that it is not left for people to decide or have any say in the matter:

"And when your Lord said to the angels, I am going to place in the earth a khalif, they said: What! wilt Thou place in it such as shall make mischief in it and shed blood, and we celebrate Thy praise and extol Thy holiness? He said: Surely I know what you do not know." Quran 2:30

"Their Prophet said to them: "Allah hath appointed Talut as king over you." They said: "How can he exercise authority over us when we are better fitted than he to exercise authority, and he is not even gifted, with wealth in abundance?" He said: "Allah hath Chosen him above you, and hath gifted him abundantly with knowledge and bodily prowess: Allah Granteth His authority to whom He pleaseth. Allah careth for all, and He knoweth all things." Quran 2:247

Notice how it is always Allah who appoints the people in authority. Hazrat Talut was not even a Prophet but Allah was the one to decide he was to rule and be king... Not the people.


"And your Lord creates and chooses whom He pleases; to choose is not theirs; glory be to Allah, and exalted be He above what they associate (with Him)." Qur'an 28:68

"And remember that Abraham was tried by his Lord with certain commands, which he fulfilled: He said: "I will make thee an Imam to the Nations." He pleaded: "And also (Imams) from my offspring!" He answered: "But My Promise is not within the reach of evil-doers." Quran 2:124

No one will deny the fact that Muhammad (pbuh&hf) was a direct decendant from Prophet Ibrahim through Prophet Ismaeel . Therefor no one will deny the fact that all the Imams came from the line of the Prophet which was the same line that traced back to Ibrahim  


"One day We shall call together all human beings with their (respective) Imams: those who are given their record in their right hand will read it (with pleasure), and they will not be dealt with unjustly in the least." 71:17 [Abdullah Yusuf Ali Translation] 

If we look closely a the above verse we notice that not certain people, but ALL 'human beings with their Imams'. Therefore there must be an Imam for us, whom we will be raised with. He is Muhammad Al-Mahdi (May Allah hasten his Reapparence) the 12th Imam from AhlulBayt


I'll let Brothers more knowledge in the areas of question 2 and 3 to reply.

About self-flagellation, it's not part of Shia Islam. It's a cultural practice. Majority of the Scholars are of the opinion that it is Haram and causes non-Muslims and non-Shia Muslims to develop a bad image of Islam and the School of AhlulBayt

Shias don't curse using bad lanaguge to companions... It's not part of the Ahklaq that our Messenger and the Imams used and spoke with (Peace be upon them all). Shia do not curse, they invoke Allah to remove His mercy from certain individuals due to their ill treatment towards His Messenger and the crimes committed against the AhlulBayt . Bottom line, cursing is not the right thing to do.

Idk what was edited out but the Quran is clear, whoever goes against the Quran, whether he be a Shia or not is clearly in Manifest Error. Bottom line with Aisha, she did many horrible things, but at the end of the day she was the prophets wife she deserves our respect for that but that's it... For example she used disgusting language to insult Khadijah right infront of the messenger:

Sahih Bukhari:   Volume 5, Book 58, Number 168 :
Narrated by Abu Huraira
Gabriel came to the Prophet and said, "O Allah's Apostle! This is Khadija coming to you with a dish having meat soup (or some food or drink). When she reaches you, greet her on behalf of her Lord (i.e. Allah) and on my behalf, and give her the glad tidings of having a Qasab palace in Paradise wherein there will be neither any noise nor any fatigue (trouble) . " Narrated 'Aisha: Once Hala bint Khuwailid, Khadija's sister, asked the permission of the Prophet to enter. On that, the Prophet remembered the way Khadija used to ask permission, and that upset him. He said, "O Allah! Hala!" So I became jealous and said, "What makes you remember an old woman amongst the old women of Quraish an old woman (with a teethless mouth) of red gums who died long ago, and in whose place Allah has given you somebody better than her?"

Also she is threatend by Allah in the Quran with divorce and also she and Hafsa played horrible tricks on the Prophet especially the incident related in the Quran about the honey drink in which she lied and told the Prophet that his breath smelt.... Also the fact that she fought Imam Ali , she narrated many Hadiths which my jaw literally hits the floor everytime I read them. One that caught my eye was how she managed to narrate the whole story of when the Prophet received revelation from Jibreel and then became depressed and he went up to a mountain to through himself off and commit suicide... She mentions how he walked up the mountain many times with this intention. (Astagifrillah!) I don't have the Hadith with me but I can find it if you like.

No, Shia do not worship anyone other than the Lord of the Heavens and the Earth.

On a side note. Brother can you tell me about the book you read called: "After the Prophet"? I am also interested in reading this book.

None of what you said is rude or offensive. You are welcome on this site. don't be fooled by people who have chances are, never met a Shia... Because I became a Muslim without technically meeting a Muslim and I also became a Shia without ever meeting a Shia in person I am basically besides on friend from School who converted to Islam, the only Shia in the Masjid and my Sunni Brothers don't have any issues, they don't even care, in fact I think majority don't know... I also found Shia Islam because of a friend I met online who showed me the right path.

[Shia_Debater]

Abdul Alim, on 25 May 2012 - 08:45 AM, said:

JazakAllahu Khair for posting the hadith bro . . .  It sort of surprises me that the Hadith is in Sahih Muslim, because Sahih Muslim and Sahih Bukhari are the only two books that Sunnis accept as absolutely authentic (others are authentic, but on a smaller level).  I was told that there were only 4 rashidun (divinely guided Caliph's), and innummerable other Caliph's like Muawiya that were not divinely guided.

You are more than welcome bro. Also this isn't the only contradicting hadith sunnis have within their own books.

Quote

I was always told that it was for war booty only.  You pay 2.5% (zakat) on all of your income, and 20% on the spoils of war.  Could someone please clarify this for me?  Are we required to pay 20% on everything PLUS 2.5%?  Or is it only on the surplus after our living expenses are paid?

Brother Dar'ul_Islam explained this well

Quote

For your khums questions, Khums is taken from your increase in wealth after a year, 20%. Also, Zakaah in our fiqh is not based on our total income, but only certain wealth assets. All of these rules are outlined our ahaadeeth that have come from the Pure Imams [as].

Here is an introduction to Khums from Ayatollah Sistani (ha)

http://www.sistani.o...&id=48&pid=2285

and here is an introduction to Zakat from Ayatollah Sistani (ha)

http://www.sistani.o...&id=48&pid=2294

You can then see more rules about them here (If you scroll down to the part where on the left is says khums and the ones where on the left it says zakat there will be options to click on e.g. Khums - Profit from earning, Zakat - qualifications of those entitled to receive zakat etc)

It basically explains the rulings more in depth.

http://www.sistani.o...?p=251364&id=48

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Ah, okay.  The reason Sunnis have Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim (as well as other books of Hadith) is because some scholars a long time ago collected the ahadith and verified them for authenticity.  Bukhari and Muslim then just put the authentic ones they collected into a book, so that it would be easier to find ahadith.

I think with our scholars (at least some of them) (though don't quote me on this I could be wrong) because collecting narrations was such a lengthy task they did not have enough time to both collect the narrations and also grade them so they collected them but didn't grade them.

One of our books (I can't remember which one) took like 20 years to compile, so you can imagine how long it would have taken to grade them aswell.

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To turn us off from the Shi'a, Sunnis would often show images of huge groups of Shi'a hutting or cutting themselves, and their children as well.  I was really disturbed by the image of very bloody infants.  I'm glad it's not clearcut wajib.

Yes, unfortunately there is a lot of propaganda out there

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This makes sense.  Thanks for clarifying.

You're welcome

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Yes, it was an insult.  It was a slur referring to a promiscuous woman.

You will see some people who say that she was, but the vast majority of the Shi`a don't believe this, so if you do hear this from any Shi`a then know that it's their own personal belief and not what the majority of us believe.

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I agree that her waging war on Ali was a very evil thing.  That's one of the things I really like about Ali (a.s.) is that when he wasn't given what was rightly his (Caliphate/Imamate) he sat by peacefully until it was his turn.  He didn't wage violent war against fellow mu'mineen over jealousy or anger.

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That's what the girl I was referring to earlier (the Shi'a) said, as well.  That brings me into my next question.  This goes for both Sunnis and Shi'as.  Why are there so many lavish shrines for the Nabi (saw) and the Imam's?  Muahmmad was buried simply in the floor of Aisha's home.  Ali wanted his burial to be the same, simple and without lavish.  Why then, do we now build extravagent shrines around them?  Does that not promote idolatry?  I also question the extreme show of wealth at Makkah.  The Kaa'bah is adorned with gold, which I don't think Muhammad (saw) would have wanted.  Masjid al-haraam is very lavish.  Have you seen the new clocktower?  It monsters over the haraam and kaa'bah.  I don't think this is right . . .

Yes, I've seen the clock tower and I don't think it is right either.

As for the shrines, I believe it's done out of the grandeur of these respected personalities, though I don't know too much about it so I could be wrong, there may be another reason why it is done.

Though even if we were to say that its something bad it wouldn't affect the beliefs that the Shi`a have, as far as I'm aware, someone could still follow the Ja`fari school of thought and not agree with the grandeur of the shrines (as in disagree with such shrines being built for the imams )

Quote

I will have a look Insh'Allah.

I hope you find many answers to your questions through that website and also on this forum insha'Allah

Quote

Thanks again, so much.  I was worried that I would be met with hostilities, and I'm glad that I wasn't.  JazakAllahu Khair.

You are more than welcome brother, there is nothing to thank me for.

And once again, if you have any more questions please don't hesitate to ask

May Allah (swt) guide us all and keep us all on the right path bi haqqi muhammad wa alihi insha'Allah

[Dar'ul_Islam]

The shrines are not disagreed about really by any of our `ulemaa, classical or modern. I think I remember reading from al-Majalisi [rh] that part of the collected khumms goes into the Shrines, so when the Imam [as] comes, he can take the wealth as it belongs to him and is his right.

في امان الله

[lemonade]

Abdul Alim, on 25 May 2012 - 08:45 AM, said:

I appreciate the quote from the Qur'an.  How, then, does Khums work?
[Pooya/Ali Commentary 8:41]
KHUMS MEANS ONE FIFTH.

Ghanayam means the property, movable and immovable, surrendered by the enemy in any battle. Verse 1 of this surah has already stated that it belongs to Allah and the Holy Prophet. Although the Sunni jurists have restricted its meaning to the spoils of war, but actually, according to Shia scholars, on every profit obtained by trade and labour, or from mines, or from sea or by means mentioned in the books of fiqh, payment of khums is obligatory, because as per the rules of lexicography the word ghanimat applies to all these things. Well-known commentators like Razi and Qartabi admit that the real meaning of ghanimat does not justify its restriction to the spoils of war only. See Tafsir Razi vol. 15, p.164 and Tafsir Qartabi vol. 4, p. 2840. Tafsir al Manar also gives the same verdict.

According to this verse out of every profit, from wherever it comes, including the spoils of wars, khums has to be paid, because both ma (a relative pronoun-mawsulah) and shay are of a general nature and carry no restrictions.

The amount of khums payable is divided into six equal parts to be disbursed as under:
(1) Allah's share.
(2) The Holy Prophet's share.
(3) The Holy Prophet's relatives' share.
(The Holy Prophet used to receive all these three shares).
(4) Share of the orphans of Bani Hashim.
(5) Share of the poor.
(6) Share of the wayfarers.
As sadqa has been forbidden for the relatives of the Holy Prophet, Allah has decreed khums for them.

In the present age the total amount of khums is divided into two equal parts and disbursed as under:
(1) Sahm al Sadat-the share of the descendants of the Holy Prophet.

(2) Sahm al Imam-the share of the Imam, which is given to the mujtahid the payer of khums follows, or can be distributed or utilised by his permission. The mujtahid uses it for the good of the faithful and for the propagation of the faith. For details refer to fiqh.
Verse 26 of Bani Israil says: "Give the kinsman his due". They are Fatimah and her children, the Ahl ul Bayt, according to Tafsir Durr al Manthur, vol. 4, p. 177. Unless and until a Muslim sets aside the khums he cannot be deemed to have paid his dues. Tafsir Ruh al Ma-ani, vol.3, p.637; Tafsir Naysaburi, vol. 3, p . 215, and other commentaries mention that khums isfor Allah and for the messenger and for his kinsmen. They are the people to whom the abandoned wealth belongs, about which Allah has revealed in the Quran:
That which Allah gives as wealth unto His messenger from the people of the towns, it is for Allah and His messenger and for the near of kin, (Hashr: 7)
The Holy Prophet said:
"Recognise the rights of my pious and upright relatives for the sake of Allah, and as for those among my kinsmen who are less careful in the matters of religion, pay their dues for my sake, because sadqa has been forbidden to them."
The day of distinction is the day of the battle of Badr.



Why is it good to curse the hypocrites.  Obviously you want to show others why they are hypocrites, so that they wont be deceived, but why curse them?!

Brother we do curse all enemies of Allah(whether they are from Jinn or human) but still it isn't allowed in our religion(islam) to abuse or curse any enemies of Allah in the front of their believers like Allah him self says in qur'an i dont know the correct wording of that verse but that verse is something like this "Dont abuse the false Gods of others because they may abuse your true God" So We do curse them it is part of sunnah of Allah and his prophets.Allah cursed many people in qur'an but it is not allowed in our religion to abuse or curse false Gods/leaders of other religions in front of their believers as it is mentioned in qur'an dont abuse false Gods of others.Brother we all muslim always say "Aa oo zoo billahi minashaitan ilaeenir rajeem(I seek refuge in Allah from cursed satan" So there are many people in the world know as illuminati who worship satan But as it is mentioned in quran dont abuse false God of others.Allah dont allow us to curse or abuse satan in front of illuminatis.

Yeah, I've heard about that.  I don't know why Sunnis don't confront this issue.  I hadn't even heard abotu it until I read the book After the Prophet.  Turns out, it's real history.

There is a story in their sahih al bukhari(one of their top hadees books) in which it is written that umar and abu bakr was involved in killing Lady Fatima(S.A) you may watch my video at the top the boy with black islamic cap he mentions those hadees from sahih al bukhari.There are also many more things in their books they even dont like to talk about those stuffs which are present in their books like event of ghadeer in which prophet nominated Imam Ali after him,quran and ahlulbayt version of hadith present in their books many times more than quran and sunnah version of hadith you may watch video which I posted at the top with title why I became shia in which video maker exposed all lies of those who always say quran and sunnah quran and sunnah.Shia jurist showed all those hadeeths by bringing their book in front of camera.They dont want to talk about those stuffs because they know at the end they will not be able to answer.

I understand what you're saying, but asking a doctor for help is different than asking an Imam for help.  The Imam's (except, potentially, the 12th) are dead.  They can't do anything for us, until the day of judgment.

Brother it is mentioned in holy qur'an ""Think not of those who are slain in God's way as dead. Nay they live, finding their sustenance in the Presence of their Lord...." So Allah said dont call martyrs dead.Our Prophet,lady fatima and 12 imams were martyrs according to our school of thought even if they were not martyrs still they have more value than martyrs in front of Allah.God knows best how are they living.All muslims pray five times in a day they always say at the last of their prayers "Assalamu 'alayka ayyuhan Nabiyyu wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh(O Prophet! Allah's peace, blessings and grace be upon you!)".Does it sound logical to send salvation or say hi to a dead person?.(There is a verse about waseela in qur'an "O you who Believe! Do your duties to Allah and fear Him seek the means of approach unto him, and strive (with might and main) in His cause so that you may prosper. (Surah Mai’dah verse 35, Surah 5)"

In this verse, Allah has informed us to seek ways of obtaining Waseela, a means to approach Him.Our prophet and his family is our Waseela in this world and hereafter.

Edited by Ahlulbayt~lover, 26 May 2012 - 12:51 AM.

[AlwaysChangingHisUserName]

Freeurmind, I watched that video.  Very informative Mash'Allah.  I had heard some of the misconceptions he had mentioned, and then debunked.  My favourite is the one where Shi'ism was started by a Yemeni Jew.  I actually believed that at one point!  It just goes to show you how ignorant a person (me) can be when you're told to accept something without doing proper research.

I would also like to thank Dar'ul_Islam, Ali:), ShiaDebater, AhlalbaytLover, as well as anyone else that has posted in this thread, that I haven't yet mentioned.  The reason I am not giving full responses to your posts, is that I have nothing I disagree with and nothing I have any particular questions about!!  I have read each and every one, and I highly appreciate it.  May Allah (swt) reward you all for your wonderful help!

I would like to become a Shi'a, but I really don't know much about it, still.  More questions (I apologize!)

How does one become a Shi'a?  Do I have to say the Shahadah again in front of witnesses, or am I already considered "Muslim" and the divisions don't matter, I just have to start practicing as one.

How do Shi'ites pray?  Is it different than Sunni (which there are many variations on -- I use the Hanafi method now)

When it comes to Khums, do I pay 20% on everything, or just on surplus after annual expenses are met?  And where do I pay it to?  I know where the parts of the Khums are supposed to go to, but I can't just walk up to Allah, RasulAllah, or Ahlul Bayt and pay them . . .

[Ali Musaaa :)]

Abdul Alim, on 26 May 2012 - 09:45 PM, said:

Freeurmind, I watched that video.  Very informative Mash'Allah.  I had heard some of the misconceptions he had mentioned, and then debunked.  My favourite is the one where Shi'ism was started by a Yemeni Jew.  I actually believed that at one point!  It just goes to show you how ignorant a person (me) can be when you're told to accept something without doing proper research.

I would also like to thank Dar'ul_Islam, Ali:), ShiaDebater, AhlalbaytLover, as well as anyone else that has posted in this thread, that I haven't yet mentioned.  The reason I am not giving full responses to your posts, is that I have nothing I disagree with and nothing I have any particular questions about!!  I have read each and every one, and I highly appreciate it.  May Allah (swt) reward you all for your wonderful help!

I would like to become a Shi'a, but I really don't know much about it, still.  More questions (I apologize!)

How does one become a Shi'a?  Do I have to say the Shahadah again in front of witnesses, or am I already considered "Muslim" and the divisions don't matter, I just have to start practicing as one.

How do Shi'ites pray?  Is it different than Sunni (which there are many variations on -- I use the Hanafi method now)

When it comes to Khums, do I pay 20% on everything, or just on surplus after annual expenses are met?  And where do I pay it to?  I know where the parts of the Khums are supposed to go to, but I can't just walk up to Allah, RasulAllah, or Ahlul Bayt and pay them . . .

Your very welcome Brother

No, you do not need to say Shahadah again as you are already a Muslim. I too originally became a Shia without knowing much about Sunni Shia differences. Out of stupidity and ignorance I later became a Sunni but then Alhamdulillah I continued my study in the two Schools (Sunni/Shia) and I found that the School of Ahlulbayt was far superior to the Sunni School of Thought.

Brother if you do wish to become a Shia at least you have to accept and acknowledge the Wilayah of Ali Ibn Abi Talib because the word Shia means follower or also party of but generally it is nowadays used for the name of people who accept Ali as the rightful successor and are followers of Ali after the Prophet (pbuh&hf).

Yes we pray slightly different. Please check out the following link:  http://praytime.info/tutor.html

^ this is a really good site, it gives you prayer times as well

Brother, about Khums. I am unsure as I am only 17 (actually turning 18 on Thursday ) and a convert from last ramadan. I also do not currently work, nor do I know any Shia Muslim Brothers/Sisters. I am alone and the only Shia except one friend who converted ro Islam, in my Masjid so I am unable to provide any help in this area.

Where abouts do you live Brother? I reccommend you visit a Masjid who's majority are Shia Muslims/ a "Shia Masjid". I don't like saying 'Shia Mosque/Sunni Mosque' as they are all houses of Allah and we do not own them once you do that, speak with the Imam about Khums and inshAllah you will recieve a warm welcome and satisfactory answers.

Hope you are well Bro, if you need anything just ask
Take care, Wassalaam

Edited by Ali :), 26 May 2012 - 10:15 PM.

[zzaveri]

Salaam 'Alaikum Brother Abdul Alim,

Go to minute 52:20 of the lecture it will answer many of your questions Inshallah.



Congratulations brother on keeping an open mind and investigating your doubts with a clear intention!

Edited by zzaveri, 26 May 2012 - 10:24 PM.

[Dar'ul_Islam]

Abdul Alim, on 26 May 2012 - 09:45 PM, said:

Freeurmind, I watched that video.  Very informative Mash'Allah.  I had heard some of the misconceptions he had mentioned, and then debunked.  My favourite is the one where Shi'ism was started by a Yemeni Jew.  I actually believed that at one point!  It just goes to show you how ignorant a person (me) can be when you're told to accept something without doing proper research.

I would also like to thank Dar'ul_Islam, Ali:), ShiaDebater, AhlalbaytLover, as well as anyone else that has posted in this thread, that I haven't yet mentioned.  The reason I am not giving full responses to your posts, is that I have nothing I disagree with and nothing I have any particular questions about!!  I have read each and every one, and I highly appreciate it.  May Allah (swt) reward you all for your wonderful help!

I would like to become a Shi'a, but I really don't know much about it, still.  More questions (I apologize!)

الحمد لله الذي هدىنا لهذا وما كنّا لنهتدي لو لآ ان هدىنا الله
اللهم ارحمنا وباركنا بحقّ محمد وآله الطاهرين صلى الله عليهم أجمعين

Quote

How does one become a Shi'a?  Do I have to say the Shahadah again in front of witnesses, or am I already considered "Muslim" and the divisions don't matter, I just have to start practicing as one.

No, this is not necessary. You must simply believe in the Shahdatayn and in the Wilayah of the 12 Imams [as], be loyal to them [as] and dissociate from their enemies (la). Repeating the Shahdatayn along with the third Shahada is good as it solidifies ones eemaan - words and action lead to conviction. So you can say to yourself: اشهد ان لآ اله الله وحده لا شريك له وأشهد ان محمداً عبده ورسوله وان علياً اميرَ المومنين وليُ اللهِ وخليفةُ رسولِ الله

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How do Shi'ites pray?  Is it different than Sunni (which there are many variations on -- I use the Hanafi method now)

To learn your rules of Islam and fiqh, I suggest you do taqleed - follow a scholar. 99% of Shi`ah consider Taqleed to a mujtahid wajib (the other two options are act on absolute precaution between all the mujtahideen or be a mujtahid yourself). http://sistani.org I the Marja` I follow and many Shi`ah around the world ( I dare say most follow him, it's probably true). Click "Islamic Laws" and get to reading! The two things of most immediate importance is Wudhu and Salaah. Further elaboration and explanation of these rules, for the most part, you can find at http://islamic-laws.org It has organized things pretty nicely.

Quote

When it comes to Khums, do I pay 20% on everything, or just on surplus after annual expenses are met?  And where do I pay it to?  I know where the parts of the Khums are supposed to go to, but I can't just walk up to Allah, RasulAllah, or Ahlul Bayt and pay them . . .

Read the rules on Khums provided in the links above. But for summary, you only pay it on the increase difference between this year and the last. Let's say you made only $500 last year, and then next you end up with a total of $600 after all your necessary spendings and sadaqa, etc. Your increase in wealth is $100, and you would pay 20% of that. This is highly simplified explanation, I would read the rules (which are still kind of confusing...) and if you can get in contact with a Shaykh, they could probably explain it all completely and dispel any uncertainties for you, inshaa'Allah.

If you can read/understand Arabic...that opens up so many more doors, just let us know.

في امان الله

[AlwaysChangingHisUserName]

Ali

I thank you yet again for the help you offered.  I am also 17 years of age, and have no job, therefore no income.

The closest mosque with a Shi'a majority is a whole city over (I have no car) and I don't know if I would feel comfortable just going.  There is one brother that goes to my school that's a Shi'a, and I severely insulted and cursed him and his religion after he said I couldn't be a Muslim because I wasn't arab enough.  I don't think I could face that brother again, and I would worry about encountering him.  Also the mosque seems to be more of an Arab mosque, than Shi'a.  They're very nationalistic Iraqi, as far as I know.  Maybe I could contact someone InshAllah.

zzaveri

Thank you akhi, I will have a look.

Dar, on 26 May 2012 - 10:17 PM, said:

No, this is not necessary. You must simply believe in the Shahdatayn and in the Wilayah of the 12 Imams [as], be loyal to them [as] and dissociate from their enemies (la). Repeating the Shahdatayn along with the third Shahada is good as it solidifies ones eemaan - words and action lead to conviction. So you can say to yourself: اشهد ان لآ اله الله وحده لا شريك له وأشهد ان محمداً عبده ورسوله وان علياً اميرَ المومنين وليُ اللهِ وخليفةُ رسولِ الله

Alright, thank you akhi.  InshAllah, I will tonight say it.

Dar, on 26 May 2012 - 10:17 PM, said:

To learn your rules of Islam and fiqh, I suggest you do taqleed - follow a scholar. 99% of Shi`ah consider Taqleed to a mujtahid wajib (the other two options are act on absolute precaution between all the mujtahideen or be a mujtahid yourself). http://sistani.org I the Marja` I follow and many Shi`ah around the world ( I dare say most follow him, it's probably true). Click "Islamic Laws" and get to reading! The two things of most immediate importance is Wudhu and Salaah. Further elaboration and explanation of these rules, for the most part, you can find at http://islamic-laws.org It has organized things pretty nicely.

I have actually read many of Sistani's rulings, and sent him a question via email already about male-female interactions that is unique to my situation.  Thanks for the recommendation!  I will have a look at the second website Insh'Allah.

Dar, on 26 May 2012 - 10:17 PM, said:

Read the rules on Khums provided in the links above. But for summary, you only pay it on the increase difference between this year and the last. Let's say you made only $500 last year, and then next you end up with a total of $600 after all your necessary spendings and sadaqa, etc. Your increase in wealth is $100, and you would pay 20% of that. This is highly simplified explanation, I would read the rules (which are still kind of confusing...) and if you can get in contact with a Shaykh, they could probably explain it all completely and dispel any uncertainties for you, inshaa'Allah.

I think I kind of understand it, but I will InshAllah have a scholar explain the details to me eventually.  Is it safe to assume that, as I have no job and live with my parents, I owe no Khums?  If not, I will make it a priority to learn the details instead of putting it off until later.

Dar, on 26 May 2012 - 10:17 PM, said:

If you can read/understand Arabic...that opens up so many more doors, just let us know.

في امان الله

Unfortunately, I do not.  I hope to learn someday, but languages aren't really my strong point.  I'm almost finished with my third year of high school German, and although I can understand nearly anything, I can't speak or write very strongly.  I just can't formulate sentences at all, especially with prepositions and the like.  I might try learning the Arabic alphabet soon Insh'Allah so I can at least read (Qur'an), and maybe take classes in college.  I don't know yet.


Do Shi'a have different names for the chapters in the Qur'an?  One a website that teaches Shi'a salah, it refers to al-Fatiha as al-Hamd.  (I know it's the same because they recited al-Fatiha, but called it al-Hamd)

They also just referred al-Ikhlas as al-Tawhid . . .

Edited by Abdul Alim, 26 May 2012 - 10:42 PM.

[Ali Musaaa :)]

Abdul Alim, on 26 May 2012 - 10:36 PM, said:

Ali

I thank you yet again for the help you offered.  I am also 17 years of age, and have no job, therefore no income.

The closest mosque with a Shi'a majority is a whole city over (I have no car) and I don't know if I would feel comfortable just going.  There is one brother that goes to my school that's a Shi'a, and I severely insulted and cursed him and his religion after he said I couldn't be a Muslim because I wasn't arab enough.  I don't think I could face that brother again, and I would worry about encountering him.  Also the mosque seems to be more of an Arab mosque, than Shi'a.  They're very nationalistic Iraqi, as far as I know.  Maybe I could contact someone InshAllah.

Do Shi'a have different names for the chapters in the Qur'an?  One a website that teaches Shi'a salah, it refers to al-Fatiha as al-Hamd.  (I know it's the same because they recited al-Fatiha, but called it al-Hamd)

It's a pleasure Brother
Wow, MashAllah, well being the same age I know exactly what your going through as I was only several months ago in the exact situation.

Yes Brother I understand. I was worried about going to a Mosque for the first time and I convinced my mum to take me because I didn't have my own car and Alhamdulliah everything worked out great. I still reccommend finding a way to get to that Masjid, even if it requires you to approach that Brother. But seriously Bro, no disrespect to him but he isn't much of a Muslim if he says you can't be a Muslim because your not Arab enough :/ look at me, I'm Spanish and Portuguse but born in Australia I also know a Israeli Brother who is a Muslim

Brother as you know nationalism is a disease that Islam came to remove. Back in our Prophets (pbuh&hf) time tribes were exactly the same. Islam removed this nonsense and united everyone together under the banner of: "La ilaha ilallah"

I'm sure not all Brothers are like him, in fact I have never encountered a Muslim who was like that. All the Muslims at my Mosque are Turkish, except for three converts (Me, my friend and another Brother). Perhaps it's a good idea to avoid this Brother, he doesnt seem to have a sound understand if the basic principal in Islam, which is Brotherhood. I reccommend contacting that Mosque whose majority is Shia and tell them that you are a revert to Islam but originally a Sunni and you wish to speak to and Imam about following the School of AhlulBayt ect.. Something along those lines.

About the Qur'an Surahs. Brother I'm sure the Sunni's would of told you that we believe in a different Quran? No, brother I was kidding (I know, bad joke ) but yeh i don't know why either but some people call it Surah al-hamd (I think I have only seen it written like that on that website and perhaps another one), but it is Surah Al-Fatiha no disputes about that.

Abdul Alim, on 26 May 2012 - 10:36 PM, said:

Thank you akhi, I will have a look.


Alright, thank you akhi.  InshAllah, I will tonight say it.

You want become a Following of the AhlulBayt ? Alhamdulillah! Welcome brother, may Allah give you insight and the eagerness and desire to studying the teachings of the AhlulBayt and spread their message to others
Wassalaam

[AlwaysChangingHisUserName]

Ali , on 26 May 2012 - 11:03 PM, said:

It's a pleasure Brother
Wow, MashAllah, well being the same age I know exactly what your going through as I was only several months ago in the exact situation.

Wow.  It's great to know that another person understands what I am going through.  Are your parents Muslim?  Mine aren't . . . my mom is a Christian, and she doesn't really like Islam much, which might actually be a blessing from Allah as she doesn't know the difference between Sunni and Shi'a!

Ali , on 26 May 2012 - 11:03 PM, said:

Yes Brother I understand. I was worried about going to a Mosque for the first time and I convinced my mum to take me because I didn't have my own car and Alhamdulliah everything worked out great. I still reccommend finding a way to get to that Masjid, even if it requires you to approach that Brother. But seriously Bro, no disrespect to him but he isn't much of a Muslim if he says you can't be a Muslim because your not Arab enough :/ look at me, I'm Spanish and Portuguse but born in Australia I also know a Israeli Brother who is a Muslim

Brother as you know nationalism is a disease that Islam came to remove. Back in our Prophets (pbuh&hf) time tribes were exactly the same. Islam removed this nonsense and united everyone together under the banner of: "La ilaha ilallah"

Thanks for the advice brother.  I will try my best.  I will see if I can make amends with the brother.  It was almost entirely my fault, and I feel bad about that.

Ali , on 26 May 2012 - 11:03 PM, said:

I'm sure not all Brothers are like him, in fact I have never encountered a Muslim who was like that. All the Muslims at my Mosque are Turkish, except for three converts (Me, my friend and another Brother). Perhaps it's a good idea to avoid this Brother, he doesnt seem to have a sound understand if the basic principal in Islam, which is Brotherhood. I reccommend contacting that Mosque whose majority is Shia and tell them that you are a revert to Islam but originally a Sunni and you wish to speak to and Imam about following the School of AhlulBayt ect.. Something along those lines.

I don't think it's really his fault.  I probably irritated him, and that's how he responded.  I will contact them InshAllah.

Ali , on 26 May 2012 - 11:03 PM, said:

About the Qur'an Surahs. Brother I'm sure the Sunni's would of told you that we believe in a different Quran? No, brother I was kidding (I know, bad joke ) but yeh i don't know why either but some people call it Surah al-hamd (I think I have only seen it written like that on that website and perhaps another one), but it is Surah Al-Fatiha no disputes about that.

Haha yeah, I've actually heard that, but I figured it was just another baseless accusation, since y'know, there's only one Qur'an