165 replies to this topic

[Shia_Debater]

Ismahan007, on 21 May 2012 - 11:09 AM, said:

@all those who said YES, your daughters will definetly accuse you of stealing their childhood. am pretty sure about it. which human will do that in this day and age... what a barbaric attitude!

Not really - because as was said before - getting married at an early age doesn't have to mean things like moving in together at that age, having to give up education, having to get a job, getting pregnant etc.

You can be married and live in your own families houses, still have your education, avoid consummating the marriage early as to make sure that you wont get pregnant, protect yourself from sin, not be worried about when you will get married, secure half your faith etc.

All these will benefit your child both spiritually and mentally, it will give the man a sense of responsibility which he may not have had when he wasn't married, it will help them both concentrate on studies and not be lured by the temptations around them in everyday life etc.

The fact is, if your daughter does not get married early then I'm 96% sure that she will fall into sin - zina isn't the only sin one can fall into by not being married, there are other sins which are much easier to fall into and which shaytan (la) disguises them by making some think that its ok such as hugging na mahrams, kissing na mahrams etc.

You shouldn't have the mindset that your daughter will be able to avoid all the temptations - sure there are girls who may avoid the temptations all around them - but it is obviously very difficult and its better to be safe than sorry.

Edited by Shia_Debater, 21 May 2012 - 11:33 AM.

[aqibjaveed]

no i will not let their mind develop

[aqibjaveed]

yes we have to follow islamic rules n regulations,but modification according to enviroment is there

[aqibjaveed]

saving is something n doing is something so let us think also because we are ashraful makhlokat

[Waiting for HIM]

Shia-Debater -  I want to double, triple like your post.

Marriage does not mean they need to move together. I've seen score sky rocket once kids (13+) tie the knots, still live with their parents, no masturbation problem among boys, boys become MAN of responsibility, girls are less giggly and more mature, taking care of themselves better physically and spiritually, helping out moms and dads, are saved from all the god-less influences, getting way ahead in life.

Early Marriage = No more problem of supressing the natural urges - physical urges turn into emotional romantic feelings,
Early Marriage = No more distractions of having a love-less life (no gf, bf peer pressure from friends),
Early Marriage = No more fear of the future (I'm getting old, who will marry me, let me throw myself at the next best imported gorilla).

If indeed it is sacrificing childhood for this, would you not like your son or daughter do a better deal, sacrifice stupid childhood for the benefits that early marriage provides. Only if you as a parent can deal with it maturly though.

Islam recommends it. Prophet and Aimah (s) sayins support this. Mostly all countries in the East and some in West allow it.

Does this leave parents with any excuse to keep their frustrated sons and daughters till they are 25+? Why hide from the fact that most teenagers masturbate? Many girls get deceived by false promises. Many young women are exploited and/or thrown into mental confusion because their bodies are pulling one way, and parental rules are pulling the other way. Would you like your son or daughter to be doing this haram, going through turmoil, or be better off being in halal relationship, even if distantly.

Edited by Waiting for HIM, 21 May 2012 - 11:59 AM.

[AR2011]

doesnt immaturity factor into any of this? at such a young age, are they able to make life-changing decisions about who they want to spend the rest of their life with? is there a chance that they will end up divorced after a few years because they grew up - their expectations and outlook on life and direction changed and they each wanted different things from life?

[Waiting for HIM]

AR2011, on 21 May 2012 - 11:48 AM, said:

doesnt immaturity factor into any of this? at such a young age, are they able to make life-changing decisions about who they want to spend the rest of their life with? is there a chance that they will end up divorced after a few years because they grew up - their expectations and outlook on life and direction changed and they each wanted different things from life?

Raise them as being mature adults. Give them responsibility. Teach them to be leaders from childhood. Give them self respect. Maturity is a state of mind and a 13 year old can be more mature than her (his) grand father.

[Shia_Debater]

AR2011, on 21 May 2012 - 11:48 AM, said:

doesnt immaturity factor into any of this? at such a young age, are they able to make life-changing decisions about who they want to spend the rest of their life with? is there a chance that they will end up divorced after a few years because they grew up - their expectations and outlook on life and direction changed and they each wanted different things from life?

Yes - I believe that they should marry if they were mentally ready aswell and if my daughter was not mentally ready then I wouldn't (I don't know what the narrations say on this though so my way could be wrong) which I believe they definitely can be if taught from a young age. Also the benefit of this is that from a young age - the boy and girl - are developing their interests and where they want to go in life and they can do this together - maybe both of them may have to compromise a little and maybe they wont have to compromise at all - but the positives far outweigh the negatives.

Edited by Shia_Debater, 21 May 2012 - 12:05 PM.

[AR2011]

i agree that a maturity is a state of mind but regardless of how u raise ur children, they will be inexperienced in life and will not have enough life experience to make mature decisions. marriage amongst older, maturer people can be irddled with difficulties and challenges even amongst religious couples let alone youngsters.

[Haydar Husayn]

Ismahan007, on 21 May 2012 - 11:09 AM, said:

@all those who said YES, your daughters will definetly accuse you of stealing their childhood. am pretty sure about it. which human will do that in this day and age... what a barbaric attitude!

Yes, Islam is very barbaric.

1 – Muhammad b. Ya`qub from Muhammad b. Yahya from Ahmad b. Muhammad b. `Isa from one of his companions from Abu `Abdillah عليه السلام.  He said: From the felicity of the man is that his daughter not menstruate in his house.

2 – And from one of our companions, al-Kulayni said: Its isnad is dropped from me [from Abu `Abdillah عليه السلام – in al-Kafi], he said: Verily Allah عزّ وجلّ did not leave anything which is needed but that He taught it to His Prophet صلى الله عليه وآله.  So from His teaching to him was that one day he ascended the minbar, and praised and eulogized Allah.  Then he said: O people, verily Jibra’il came to me from the Knower of subtleties, the All-Aware, and he said: Verily the virgins are of the status of the fruit upon the tree.  When its fruits ripen and it is not harvested, the sun spoils it and the winds scatter it.  And likewise are the virgins.  When they mature (or, apprehend) what the women mature, then there is no cure for them but having a husband, otherwise they are not safe from corruption as they are human.  He said: So a man went to him and said: O Messenger of Allah, so who do we marry?  So he said: The equals (al-akfa’).  So he said: [O Messenger of Allah – in al-Kafi] and who are the equals?  So he said: The believers, some of them are  equals of others. The believers, some of them are equals of others.

12 – Muhammad b. `Ali b. al-Husayn said: The Messenger of Allah صلى الله عليه وآله said: From the felicity of the man is that his daughter not menstruate in his house.
http://www.tashayyu....ries/chapter-23

Anyway, 13 is still the age of consent in a country such as Spain. Note that this is age of sexual consent, not marriage. So if a modern European country can consider it ok for a girl of 13 to have sex, then I don't see why Muslims should have any problem with a girl of 13 getting married.

Edited by Haydar Husayn, 21 May 2012 - 12:11 PM.

[Mutah_King]

On a serious note, there is a good amount of research on this topic. Statistics generally show that the earlier you marry before a certain age, the greater the risk of divorce. The divorce rates are ridiculously high for teenage marriages. Obviously you can come up with counter islamic arguments as to why that is the case, but facts are facts.

[-Enlightened]

age is just a number
be it 13 or 30
If Allah hasn't set a specific age for marriage, why should we ?

I'm not the one living in her head to judge if she's mature or not.. it's her own decision . Let her decide !

[Waiting for HIM]

Salam,

Mutah_King, on 21 May 2012 - 12:14 PM, said:

On a serious note, there is a good amount of research on this topic. Statistics generally show that the earlier you marry before a certain age, the greater the risk of divorce. The divorce rates are ridiculously high for teenage marriages. Obviously you can come up with counter islamic arguments as to why that is the case, but facts are facts.

These divorce stats are collected on those who have married early in West. Almost all of those marriages are when young boys and girls fool around in middle schools, girls get pregnant, religious conservative parents force them to marry (one of the most popular ones was the marriage of Sarah Palin's daughter in last presidetial race in USA). These stats are collected on fornicators who HAD to marry for all the wrong reasons.

No such stats are gathered on Muslims early marriages, which are of conveniece and bliss, not of fornication and compulsion to save face in society.

Edited by Waiting for HIM, 21 May 2012 - 12:22 PM.

[baradar_jackson]

Oh HELL no. I would lock her up before doing that.

She's mine at least until she's 20. I'm not giving her to some other dude when she's at her most precious!

[ImAli]

Mutah_King, on 21 May 2012 - 12:14 PM, said:

On a serious note, there is a good amount of research on this topic. Statistics generally show that the earlier you marry before a certain age, the greater the risk of divorce. The divorce rates are ridiculously high for teenage marriages. Obviously you can come up with counter islamic arguments as to why that is the case, but facts are facts.

http://harvardmagazi...teen-brain.html


YOUR TEENAGE DAUGHTER gets top marks in school, captains the debate team, and volunteers at a shelter for homeless people. But while driving the family car, she text-messages her best friend and rear-ends another vehicle.
How can teens be so clever, accomplished, and responsible—and reckless at the same time? Easily, according to two physicians at Children’s Hospital Boston and Harvard Medical School (HMS) who have been exploring the unique structure and chemistry of the adolescent brain. “The teenage brain is not just an adult brain with fewer miles on it,” says Frances E. Jensen, a professor of neurology. “It’s a paradoxical time of development. These are people with very sharp brains, but they’re not quite sure what to do with them.”
Research during the past 10 years, powered by technology such as functional magnetic resonance imaging, has revealed that young brains have both fast-growing synapses and sections that remain unconnected. This leaves teens easily influenced by their environment and more prone to impulsive behavior, even without the impact of souped-up hormones and any genetic or family predispositions.
Most teenagers don’t understand their mental hardwiring, so Jensen, whose laboratory research focuses on newborn-brain injury, and David K. Urion, an associate professor of neurology who treats children with cognitive impairments like autism and attention deficit disorder, are giving lectures at secondary schools and other likely places. They hope to inform students, parents, educators, and even fellow scientists about these new data, which have wide-ranging implications for how we teach, punish, and medically treat this age group. As Jensen told some 50 workshop attendees at Boston’s Museum of Science in April, “This is the first generation of teenagers that has access to this information, and they need to understand some of their vulnerabilities.”
Human and animal studies, Jensen and Urion note, have shown that the brain grows and changes continually in young people—and that it is only about 80 percent developed in adolescents. The largest part, the cortex, is divided into lobes that mature from back to front. The last section to connect is the frontal lobe, responsible for cognitive processes such as reasoning, planning, and judgment. Normally this mental merger is not completed until somewhere between ages 25 and 30—much later than these two neurologists were taught in medical school.
There are also gender differences in brain development. As Urion and Jensen explain, the part of our brain that processes information expands during childhood and then begins to thin, peaking in girls at roughly 12 to 14 years old and in boys about two years later. This suggests that girls and boys may be ready to absorb challenging material at different stages, and that schools may be missing opportunities to reach them.
Meanwhile, the neural networks that help brain cells (neurons) communicate through chemical signals are enlarging in teen brains. Learning takes place at the synapses between neurons, as cells excite or inhibit one another and develop more robust synapses with repeated stimulation. This cellular excitement, or “long-term potentiation,” enables children and teenagers to learn languages or musical instruments more easily than adults.
On the flip side, this plasticity also makes adolescent brains more vulnerable to external stressors, as Jensen and Urion point out.
Teen brains, for example, are more susceptible than their adult counterparts to alcohol-induced toxicity. Jensen highlights an experiment in which rat brain cells were exposed to alcohol, which blocks certain synaptic activity. When the alcohol was washed out, the adult cells recovered while the adolescent cells remained “disabled.” And because studies show that marijuana (cannabinoid) use blocks cell signaling in the brain, according to Jensen, “We make the point that what you did on the weekend is still with you during that test on Thursday. You’ve been trying to study with a self-induced learning disability.”
Similarly, even though there is evidence that sleep is important for learning and memory, teenagers are notoriously sleep-deprived. Studying right before bedtime can help cement the information under review, Jensen notes. So can aerobic exercise, says Urion, bemoaning the current lack of physical-education opportunities for many American youths.
Teens are also bombarded by information in this electronic age, and multitasking is as routine as chatting with friends on line. But Jensen highlights a recent study showing how sensory overload can hinder undergraduates’ ability to recall words. “It’s truly a brave new world. Our brains, evolutionarily, have never been subjected to the amount of cognitive input that’s coming at us,” she says. “You can’t close down the world. All you can do is educate kids to help them manage this.” For his part, Urion believes programs aimed at preventing risky adolescent behaviors would be more effective if they offered practical strategies for making in-the-moment decisions, rather than merely lecturing teens about the behaviors themselves. (“I have yet to meet a pregnant teenager who didn’t know biologically how this transpired,” he says.)
By raising awareness of this paradoxical period in brain development, the neurologists hope to help young people cope with their challenges, as well as recognize their considerable strengths.

Edited by ImAli, 21 May 2012 - 12:26 PM.

[Waiting for HIM]

Another Reason that Muslim Kids should Marry Early (and parents should support them)

ImAli, on 21 May 2012 - 12:19 PM, said:

http://harvardmagazi...teen-brain.html


YOUR TEENAGE DAUGHTER gets top marks in school, captains the debate team, and volunteers at a shelter for homeless people. But while driving the family car, she text-messages her best friend and rear-ends another vehicle.
How can teens be so clever, accomplished, and responsible—and reckless at the same time? Easily, according to two physicians at Children’s Hospital Boston and Harvard Medical School (HMS) who have been exploring the unique structure and chemistry of the adolescent brain. “The teenage brain is not just an adult brain with fewer miles on it,” says Frances E. Jensen, a professor of neurology. “It’s a paradoxical time of development. These are people with very sharp brains, but they’re not quite sure what to do with them.”
Research during the past 10 years, powered by technology such as functional magnetic resonance imaging, has revealed that young brains have both fast-growing synapses and sections that remain unconnected. This leaves teens easily influenced by their environment and more prone to impulsive behavior, even without the impact of souped-up hormones and any genetic or family predispositions.
Most teenagers don’t understand their mental hardwiring, so Jensen, whose laboratory research focuses on newborn-brain injury, and David K. Urion, an associate professor of neurology who treats children with cognitive impairments like autism and attention deficit disorder, are giving lectures at secondary schools and other likely places. They hope to inform students, parents, educators, and even fellow scientists about these new data, which have wide-ranging implications for how we teach, punish, and medically treat this age group. As Jensen told some 50 workshop attendees at Boston’s Museum of Science in April, “This is the first generation of teenagers that has access to this information, and they need to understand some of their vulnerabilities.”
Human and animal studies, Jensen and Urion note, have shown that the brain grows and changes continually in young people—and that it is only about 80 percent developed in adolescents. The largest part, the cortex, is divided into lobes that mature from back to front. The last section to connect is the frontal lobe, responsible for cognitive processes such as reasoning, planning, and judgment. Normally this mental merger is not completed until somewhere between ages 25 and 30—much later than these two neurologists were taught in medical school.
There are also gender differences in brain development. As Urion and Jensen explain, the part of our brain that processes information expands during childhood and then begins to thin, peaking in girls at roughly 12 to 14 years old and in boys about two years later. This suggests that girls and boys may be ready to absorb challenging material at different stages, and that schools may be missing opportunities to reach them.
Meanwhile, the neural networks that help brain cells (neurons) communicate through chemical signals are enlarging in teen brains. Learning takes place at the synapses between neurons, as cells excite or inhibit one another and develop more robust synapses with repeated stimulation. This cellular excitement, or “long-term potentiation,” enables children and teenagers to learn languages or musical instruments more easily than adults.
On the flip side, this plasticity also makes adolescent brains more vulnerable to external stressors, as Jensen and Urion point out.
Teen brains, for example, are more susceptible than their adult counterparts to alcohol-induced toxicity. Jensen highlights an experiment in which rat brain cells were exposed to alcohol, which blocks certain synaptic activity. When the alcohol was washed out, the adult cells recovered while the adolescent cells remained “disabled.” And because studies show that marijuana (cannabinoid) use blocks cell signaling in the brain, according to Jensen, “We make the point that what you did on the weekend is still with you during that test on Thursday. You’ve been trying to study with a self-induced learning disability.”
Similarly, even though there is evidence that sleep is important for learning and memory, teenagers are notoriously sleep-deprived. Studying right before bedtime can help cement the information under review, Jensen notes. So can aerobic exercise, says Urion, bemoaning the current lack of physical-education opportunities for many American youths.
Teens are also bombarded by information in this electronic age, and multitasking is as routine as chatting with friends on line. But Jensen highlights a recent study showing how sensory overload can hinder undergraduates’ ability to recall words. “It’s truly a brave new world. Our brains, evolutionarily, have never been subjected to the amount of cognitive input that’s coming at us,” she says. “You can’t close down the world. All you can do is educate kids to help them manage this.” For his part, Urion believes programs aimed at preventing risky adolescent behaviors would be more effective if they offered practical strategies for making in-the-moment decisions, rather than merely lecturing teens about the behaviors themselves. (“I have yet to meet a pregnant teenager who didn’t know biologically how this transpired,” he says.)
By raising awareness of this paradoxical period in brain development, the neurologists hope to help young people cope with their challenges, as well as recognize their considerable strengths.

[ImAli]

Waiting for HIM, on 21 May 2012 - 12:25 PM, said:

Another Reason that Muslim Kids should Marry Early (and parents should support them)

The next thread will be about sky rocketing divorce rates

[Ruq]

Regardless of age as a factor, i would rather a daughter or son not get themselves into a marriage situation that is more likely to lead to divorce than not. There are no garantee's in any marriage of course, but as a general rule of thumb, the better a person knows themselves, the better the decisions they make for themselves and that is something that tends to develop with age.

[AliSaleh]

if they get maried that early surely they will get divorced becuz teenagers change there mind about what they leik every day and so soon they will get bored of each other and want to move on to someone else.  besides at a young age how can u even have a job to support your family? it just doesnt work and so its best not to do it until u r older and ready.

[Mutah_King]

Waiting for HIM, on 21 May 2012 - 12:18 PM, said:

Salam,



The stats are collected on those who have married early in West. Almost all of those marriages are when young boys and girls fool around in middle schools, girls get pregnant, religious conservative parents force them to marry (one of the most popular ones was the marriage of Sarah Palin's daughter in last presidetial race in USA). These stats are collected on fornicators who HAD to marry for all the wrong reasons.

No such stats are gathered on Muslims early marriages, which are of conveniece and bliss, not of fornication and compulsion to save face in society.

Sure, all of that has to be taken into consideration, but if I am willing to go so far as to accept that partly, these teenage marriages end up falling apart because of liberal western practices, then you should also be willing to accept the following:

Muslim and non muslim teenagers still have a lot in common.  
There is a strong possibility that a lot of muslim marriages might fall apart for similar reasons, due to lack of maturity etc.

You cannot simply dismiss an entire body of research simply because its not exclusively muslim.  Teenagers from all walks of life have a lot in common, and a rigid approach to such a complicated matter doesn't help anyone.

Edited by Mutah_King, 21 May 2012 - 12:32 PM.

[ImAli]

How many of you have a daughter or any kids at all of that matter? I am sure when you do have a daughter she will be a precious pearl and late bloomer....a rare exception to your previous rants and not ready for the stresses of marriage...LOL. Just wait! Anyway I know myself when I was a teenager compared to when I hit my 20's and believe me it would have ended in divorce.

[baradar_jackson]

^ Tbh a lot of that is because of modern urban lifestyle. Kids tend to mature a lot slower in these societies, due to the increased level of comfort and the lack of responsibilities which often lasts well into the 20's.

In harsher conditions, kids grow FAST. That's how you get people like Shahid Mehrdad Azizollahi and Shahid Hossein Fahmideh.

[Maryaam]

I am not against marrying my young teen daughter if I felt she was physically and mentally mature enough and it was a great boy – but it would have to be into a family that was willing to take on the responsibility of raising her. I know a guy whose mom married at 13 in Iraq and she still looks on her MIL as her mother.

I am concerned about impulsive decisions that teens make – as a parent should I help screen these?

Also, if I had 3 teen boys – would I be willing to take on the care and responsibility and education of 3 additional teen DIL’s?  Don’t think so.

These things sound great on paper – but in todays world things don’t always work out as they do on paper. Girls I know who got married at 17 and 18 are now divorced. Don’t know if it is better to be married and divorced at 22 or single and wanting for those years.  It gets really complicated if kids come along. As the product of a mom and dad who were using the pill – I am living proof anything can happen.

These things are not easy decisions.

[Haydar Husayn]

Whether it is a good idea or not in individual circumstances is up to the father to judge, but people should be careful not to label such marriages 'barbaric'. There is no doubt that if it is possible, then it is desirable to marry daughters young. What that age is exactly obviously varies from case to case, depending on many different factors.

[Waiting for HIM]

Mutah_King, on 21 May 2012 - 12:30 PM, said:

Sure, all of that has to be taken into consideration, but if I am willing to go so far as to accept that partly, these teenage marriages end up falling apart because of liberal western practices, then you should also be willing to accept the following:

Bro - you and I can compete on quoting Muta related hadith and I'm sure after a 1000 posts long thread, it will be a tie.

But when it comes to getting other solutions from Islam, why do people balk and wait for Western research.

If we take Islam single dimension, then sure you are going to be a loser. But if you raise your kids as Islamic adults, teach them according to Islam, have your home Islamic, have your Akhlaq Islamic, be a good role model, then it all fits in.

ImAli, on 21 May 2012 - 12:28 PM, said:

The next thread will be about sky rocketing divorce rates

Western research is dependent on science. Nothing wrong with it, but what they learned with trial and error in 1000 years, we already have a perfect message, the absolute truth, the end result. Allah surely knows the teenager mind more than Harvard research scholar knows anyway.

A test in case of Western trial and error, how many of you remember the advisaries from NHS or US Health Dept. of
1. Feed breast milk, - 1970s
2. no, don;t feed breast milk - 1980s
3. no wait - mix it up - late 1980s
4. breast feed only - early 1990s
5. Don't feed honey till a year old
6. Don't feed honey till 6 months old
7. No honey for baies till 2 yrs old
8. go as you will - till now

AliSaleh, on 21 May 2012 - 12:30 PM, said:

Besides at a young age how can u even have a job to support your family? it just doesnt work and so its best not to do it until u r older and ready.

Who is talking about getting jobs at 13. Why can't Muslim parents use their head for once. Why can't they still house the newly married 13 yr olds in their respective parents' homes till they are done with studies, start a career, teach them to not have sex till they are older.

We all are more intellegent than just think of only black and white. Aren't their any shades of grey once Muslims argue????

Maryaam, on 21 May 2012 - 12:40 PM, said:

Also, if I had 3 teen boys – would I be willing to take on the care and responsibility and education of 3 additional teen DIL’s?  Don’t think so.

Your 3 new DILs would stay with their own parents till they are ready to move together. Till then kids know they are tied to eachother, they are talking on phone, are halal bf/gf, are acting like adults, thinking more of which top Medical/Law school they ought to go than thinking if Jane next door has sex 3 times a week, and I;m roaming around wtihtout a bf.

Get my point sister. If we as Musilms accept Islam as THE solution,we will find ways to implement it.
If we make up our minds that all what Allah, Prophet and Aimah said was just a vain talk, then we'll be what we are now.

Edited by Waiting for HIM, 21 May 2012 - 12:59 PM.