109 replies to this topic

[570]

If you don't worship western krappy ideologies, you are a stupid uncool freak. You are not an intellectual. You are not open-minded

[Wahdat]

Ugly Jinn, on 13 May 2012 - 01:23 AM, said:

Why do people take it to irrelevant extremes, freedom equates to bars/clubs? Is that really the depth of what freedom means?

If I'm not even allowed to voice my disagreements in my own house then it's not a house, it's a prison.

The concept is the same....and as I mentioned them to be politically mischievous and not morally. That said, voicing disagreement is one thing, trying to get fooled for the second time (read fall of Dr. Mossadegh as first) is quite another.

Lastly, if US, the MOST POWERFUL country in the world, changed its laws and regulations in the form of racial profiling, crazy airport security checks, patriot laws, launching preemptive wars, changing international law, invading sovereign nations, bullying the world etc after 19 terrorists and two jetliners attacked their shores, what would it do if it were in place of Iran when faced, not by 19 terrorists, but worlds most strongest army and, not with 3 passenger jets, but 100s of fighter jets surrounding its shores and borders?

[ShiaBen]

Don't bother wasting your energy or time on Ugly Jinn. His name speaks for himself.

[repenter]

I wonder if those you claim we have "freedom of speech" here in the west realize that only they do, not us that support the IRI. How well do you think my job at work will improve if i speak about how i love Ayatollah Khamenei? Can i express my emotions about Israel at school without being accused of antisemitism? How many innocent people ended up in different jail of American and Israel throughout Europe and Guantanamo bay just for saying the wrong thing? A guy at our masjid said he opposed the Israelli oppression of Palestinians on a TV interview. Two weeks later he lost his job and got so much harassed at school that he now moved back to Iran. I saw the interview myself and that is all that he said, nothing more, nothing less.
The examples are plenty enough.

Freedom is a matter of opinion, those who claim we have freedom are the same people who say the exact same thing that those we are opposing are saying, of course you have freedom, we don't!

Edited by repenter, 13 May 2012 - 11:45 PM.

[Philip]

Aarash_Australia, on 13 May 2012 - 06:37 PM, said:

And your Hadith was Arabic, so I couldn't read it. (the name of the language is "Persian" btw, or "Farsi", not "Iranian")

You're a tiresome little child, and I'm not any longer going to bother replying to your constant barrage of nonsense peppered with insults.

first you tell me i am not educated .. that i should stop posting quran .. while i posted a hadith !!! talk about lack of education !!

then now you tell me i'm a child and that the hadith was in arabic .. i don't even know what to tell you anymore .. don't you see that you get proven wrong in every thing you say .. isn't it embarrassing for you. and is your pride too big to admit mistakes ??

tell me .. is this arabic:

Quote

"سيأتي قوم من بعدكم ، الرجل الواحد منهم له أجر خمسين منكم ، قالوا : يا رسول الله نحن كنا معك ببدر وأحد وحنين ونزل فينا القرآن ، فقال : إنكم لو تحملوا ما حملوا لم تصبروا صبرهم"

The Prophet (SAWA) said, addressing some of his followers: “There will be a group of people after you, of whom one man’s reward is worth fifty of you.”

His followers responded: “Oh Messenger of Allah, we were with you at Badr, and Uhud, and Hunayn, and the Qur’an was descended upon us!”

The Prophet (SAWA) responded: “If you had to withstand what they must withstand, you would not have been as patient as them.”

.. can you read the part of

Quote

The Prophet (SAWA) said, addressing some of his followers:

( and the rest ?? )

everybody keeps proving you wrong .. and you just come up with more absurd statements

Whoever Allah sends astray - there is no guide for him. And He leaves them in their transgression, wandering blindly. 7:186

[Kismet110]

Some people must live in a parellel universe where whatever Iran does (good, bad or indifferent) is in actuality GOOD. Because Iran says it is.

Oppression is the same regardless whether the oppressor is Shi'ah or sunni. Why make comparisons to China; is that system supposedly based on the principles and teaching of the Holy Imams ?

You Iran-worshippers (read: child-like non-Iranians bewitched by soundbites and turbans) should really move their if you genuinely believe it's an Islamic utopia and the rest of the world is "Ibleesi secretions" otherwise you're just hypocrites who praise suppression at arms length whilst enjoying 'freedom' here.

ALI

[baradar_jackson]

repenter, on 13 May 2012 - 11:41 PM, said:

I wonder if those you claim we have "freedom of speech" here in the west realize that only they do, not us that support the IRI. How well do you think my job at work will improve if i speak about how i love Ayatollah Khamenei? Can i express my emotions about Israel at school without being accused of antisemitism? How many innocent people ended up in different jail of American and Israel throughout Europe and Guantanamo bay just for saying the wrong thing? A guy at our masjid said he opposed the Israelli oppression of Palestinians on a TV interview. Two weeks later he lost his job and got so much harassed at school that he now moved back to Iran. I saw the interview myself and that is all that he said, nothing more, nothing less.
The examples are plenty enough.

Freedom is a matter of opinion, those who claim we have freedom are the same people who say the exact same thing that those we are opposing are saying, of course you have freedom, we don't!

The whole irony of this situation is that we have a group of people essentially saying: "The West has given you freedom of speech and you have the audacity to speak your mind?!?!?!?"

It's an inherent contradiction, regardless of the truthfulness of the statement.

[Marbles]

baradar_jackson, on 14 May 2012 - 09:19 AM, said:

The whole irony of this situation is that we have a group of people essentially saying: "The West has given you freedom of speech and you have the audacity to speak your mind?!?!?!?"

Naw man you know that's not as simple and plain as you put it. You are delibrately twisting it to suit your own personal likes and preferences. You don't accept the same for people in Iran what you get in abundance in the "glorious" West. That's the point.

Edited by Marbles, 14 May 2012 - 09:49 AM.

[baradar_jackson]

Marbles, on 14 May 2012 - 09:48 AM, said:

Naw man you know that's not as simple and plain as you put it. You are delibrately twisting it to suit your own personal likes and preferences. You don't accept the same for people in Iran what you get in abundance in the "glorious" West. That's the point.

You're repeating the same point which has already been refuted!

[Marbles]

baradar_jackson, on 14 May 2012 - 10:06 AM, said:

You're repeating the same point which has already been refuted!

Refuted? It's not a mathematical formula. You can't refute it. You can have different opinion, though.

Here, I just gave you your democratic rights of freedom of speech.

Now, will you give me mine?

[kadhim]

baradar_jackson, on 14 May 2012 - 10:06 AM, said:

You're repeating the same point which has already been refuted!

Let me touch on what I think you're talking about, at least in a high level, skeleton manner.
In skeleton, your point before was, Western domiciled fans of the Iranian government in this policy are NOt hypocrites because they don't have any more freedom in their behavior over here than they would over there, because they behave, generally, and don't choose to look at / listen to / search for that filthy stuff the filters would block anyway. So it's all the same.

And this is true. Leaving aside the likelihood of "collateral damage" where the Iranian filter, as with any filter, probably blocks out all kinds of good with the bad, and leaving aside filtering efforts which are pure politics, this is true. Well behaved Muslims are not going to miss access to bad stuff anyway, so their freedom will not be impacted in that they will not be blocked from anything they would want personally to access. (In theory, anyway - as I say, it's pretty likely they would end up experiencing some innocent material being thrown out with the bathwater)

The thing is, and the point is subtle, is that over here you actually are making the choice in this regard. You have free access to whatever content is out there on the interwebs, and you make the freewill choice to police yourself. And I would argue that this actually has a higher value than if someone else had policed things for you.
It kind of comes back to the Divine gift of free will and its value. In our being free to choose good over evil in a world of temptation, we have the ability to rise higher than the angels. Because we can go either way, our doing good has added value.

I'd point out that your line of argument could also support a government policy (and this is an admittedly absurd example, but it makes the point) of having every young person under 24 hour surveillance to prevent illicit activity. This wouldn't impact good people, because they have nothing to hide anyway.

I would ask, wouldn't a better compromise policy in regards to internet filtering and protecting the youth from impurity be for the government to fund the development of filtering software, develop some ready, sound products, and then offer this for sale at a reasonable/subsidized price on the market (or even for free)? Then people can buy/install/DL the software on their computers. So that people could freely choose to do so. That way, people's freedom is respected, but the government is still fulfilling its duty to help people avoid haram? Why not do that instead? Then the "moral" citizens of Iran could have the filtered, clean internet they want, and those depraved North Tehranis would have access to whatever filth they desire and would have nothing to complain about to the BBC (at least on this file). Win win, no?

Edited by kadhim, 14 May 2012 - 10:51 AM.

[Kismet110]

Is there a Quranic ayah or paak narration that states those things which are deemed 'wrong' should actively be banned rather than the faithful encouraged to abstain/avoid them?

I don't mean obvious things like alcohol, betting shops or brothels but churches, sunni temples, secular/political organisations not in line with the party etc.

Because during the time of the Prophet (saww) or Maula Ali's brief stint as caliph I assume churches/synagogues were allowed to continue as before (jiziya payments withstanding) and people with non-Islamic viewpoint allowed to stay as they were (providing they didn't actively oppose Islam).

Just curious to know, thanks.

ALI

[Logic]

Kismet110, on 14 May 2012 - 09:10 AM, said:

Some people must live in a parellel universe where whatever Iran does (good, bad or indifferent) is in actuality GOOD. Because Iran says it is.

Oppression is the same regardless whether the oppressor is Shi'ah or sunni. Why make comparisons to China; is that system supposedly based on the principles and teaching of the Holy Imams ?
ALI

Thank you for repeating the same beat up excuses since page 2.

Quote

You Iran-worshippers (read: child-like non-Iranians bewitched by soundbites and turbans) should really move their if you genuinely believe it's an Islamic utopia and the rest of the world is "Ibleesi secretions" otherwise you're just hypocrites who praise suppression at arms length whilst enjoying 'freedom' here.

So if i support Iran then i should move there? but why?

If it makes me a hypocrite then so be it. Everyone is a hypocrite on some level or another.

[Wahdat]

Kismet110, on 15 May 2012 - 09:51 AM, said:

Is there a Quranic ayah or paak narration that states those things which are deemed 'wrong' should actively be banned rather than the faithful encouraged to abstain/avoid them?


Just curious to know, thanks.

ALI

Is there a Quranic Ayah or a peak narration that says do not hit 120MPH on a freeway in a Dodge Van with your family inside?

[titumir]

Aarash_Australia, on 13 May 2012 - 03:00 PM, said:

Who do you think is killing all the scientists? I don't know, we don't have enough information. But of course you are convinced it's Mossad, right?

But I guess you would call a person who believed that 9/11 was an inside job, an insane  conspiracy nut. You pro-US fanatics are so predictable.

[shiasoldier786]

Ironically, Islam-haters have the same type of attitude as 'Kismet110' about muslims living in the west.

Kismet110, on 14 May 2012 - 09:10 AM, said:

You backward muslims should really move to Saudi Arabia if you want to follow your 1400 year old backward religion. You hypocrites take advantage of the west, while your Quran calls for all non-muslims to be killed, blah blah blah...

ALI

Do you realise how similar you sound to them?

Edited by shiasoldier786, 15 May 2012 - 12:25 PM.

[Logic]

Aarash_Australia, on 13 May 2012 - 03:00 PM, said:

Who do you think is killing all the scientists? I don't know, we don't have enough information. But of course you are convinced it's Mossad, right?

Its a logical deduction. Israel has hinted it being responsible for the virus and they are the one most concerned about Iran gaining nuclear technology.

Quote

Didn't Hillary Clinton admit to supporting the green movement? What the hell does that have to do with anything?

Iran politics is Iranian business. Exterior forces have no business being involved especially when they have hidden agendas and a history of overturning govt.

Quote

Oh yes, they are only worried about Nuclear weapons in Iran. Why would you say someone is lying when there is no proof? You always claim to want proof for everything, well now is your chance to prove something of your own statements.

Thats garbage.

Isreal General says Iran Nuclear bomb is unlikely and describing its leadership as rational
http://www.aljazeera...1384543509.html

Why are they worried anyway? Israel has plenty of nukes itself along with modern weapons.

Quote

A little something called the IAEA report. The IAEA, that well-known bastion of Zionism, Freemasonry, Illuminati, etc.

What about the IAEA report? Where does it say Iran is building a bomb? Its just hints that research has been conducted but nowhere does it explicitly says Iran is making a bomb

Quote

You always claim to want proof for everything - weird that, innit?

Majority of your arguments are contrary to whats being posted on the news.... Quite weird


Since we are on the topic of Hypocrisy and throwing out absurd questions. let me ask you a few as well.
Why are you still in Iran if you hate it so much?
Why is the mayor Guiliani on record of visiting Jundullah rally and even supporting it being taken off the US terror list
Why is there diplomatic relations with Saudi when majority of the hijackers were of Saudi nationality?


As you can see politics and hypocrisy hand in hand. So stop this useless excuse of hypocrisy. Its a played out card used when you have no substantial argument in place.

[repenter]

Logic, on 15 May 2012 - 01:55 PM, said:

Its a logical deduction. Israel has hinted it being responsible for the virus and they are the one most concerned about Iran gaining nuclear technology.

You don't need logic when the guy they caught admitted to be trained by Israel and has pictures of himself in Israel and American military.....I just can't be bothered to discuss certain silly obvious things with Aarash so i just leave it when it comes to this stage.

Apparently everyone who admits to crimes in Iran is tortured to admit stuff they didn't do, such a convenient argument is appealing to the likes of these shiachat members.



Enjoy for those who understand farsi, why don't you translate this Aarash.

Edited by repenter, 15 May 2012 - 06:37 PM.

[Logic]

Logic, on 15 May 2012 - 01:55 PM, said:

Why is the mayor Guiliani on record of visiting Jundullah rally and even supporting it being taken off the US terror list

Edit: I meant MKO not Jundullah.

[Kismet110]

Logic, on 15 May 2012 - 11:24 AM, said:

Thank you for repeating the same beat up excuses since page 2.
So if i support Iran then i should move there? but why?
If it makes me a hypocrite then so be it. Everyone is a hypocrite on some level or another.

Right. So why bother having a discussion forum if an opinion can't be posited? Oh, wait a minute. I see what you mean. An opinion can be posited but as long as it matches your own view. Damn. I should have known that.

Don't try and be cute. The context is hyprocisy of people supporting suppression there whilst enjoying freedom here. But good of you to at least acknowledge you're a hypocrite though.

Wahdat, on 15 May 2012 - 11:42 AM, said:

Is there a Quranic Ayah or a peak narration that says do not hit 120MPH on a freeway in a Dodge Van with your family inside?

That's, quite possibly, the most stupid analogy I've come across. I asked a serious question but some of you people have such a severe bout of myopia you just jump on anything without either digesting or thinking.

Re-read the question. It's NOT against Iran or this filter business. I asked if there is Islamic precedence for guarding against un-Islamic situations/influences on a state/community. If there is then maybe their stance is justified.

Get it now?

shiasoldier786, on 15 May 2012 - 12:16 PM, said:

Ironically, Islam-haters have the same type of attitude as 'Kismet110' about muslims living in the west.
Do you realise how similar you sound to them?

Wow, you're SO clever. You changed my text completely then made an incorrect analogy!

Difference is I LOVE Islam but that doesn't mean I love every political system in a Muslim country.

I know some people have a tough time distinguishing between Shi'ah aqueedah and politics but please, do try to keep up.

ALI

Edited by Kismet110, 16 May 2012 - 07:56 AM.

[Al-Englisi]

Kismet110, on 16 May 2012 - 07:54 AM, said:

The context is hyprocisy of people supporting suppression there whilst enjoying freedom here.  

Sorry, what particular freedoms are you talking about? and how would you define freedom?

[Kismet110]

^^^

Freedom in the narrow context of this subject point, namely filtering of websites deemed to be unsuitable.

ALI

[.K.A.R.R.A.R.]

most of Iranis are leaving Islam and Iran because they dont get YOUTUBE in iran. thats funny internet can make them hate irani regime and Islam

[Kismet110]

.K.A.R.R.A.R., on 16 May 2012 - 09:23 AM, said:

most of Iranis are leaving Islam and Iran because they dont get YOUTUBE in iran. thats funny internet can make them hate irani regime and Islam

How would becoming a Christian or atheist overcome the lack of YouTube?

ALI