109 replies to this topic

[Philip]

understanding is beyond location .. therefore we have pro and anti Islamic people living in the same place ..

Islam is in the heart .. not in a geographic location .. now start using some proper arguments instead of pinpointing at individual pointless private lives .. that is of nobody's business ..

tell me .. why do you keep on attacking the Islamic Republic and i never hear you attacking any other country .. like the zionist controlled countries for instance?

why don't you talk in context of the current threat and danger posed by those war mongers ?? why don't you talk at least a bit about them ?? and put the difficult situation of Iran in context of this ??

and talk without getting personal .. stay objective and as factual as you can ok?

[Philip]

nobody said they are infallible .. but they are surely Islamic .. and the only Shia Islamic government on earth .. let's be fair and criticize all governments .. as well as our own ..

and let's give muslims more moral support than non-muslims .. for those who fear Allah and follow the prophet and imams ..

it is wrong to have people only attack the shia government, as if they're obsessed with it in a negative way .. haram !

[Philip]

why don't people also talk about things like that:




Even worse than SOPA: New CISPA cybersecurity bill will censor the Web:


http://rt.com/usa/ne...a-internet-175/




Court allows NSA and Google to keep their ties secret:


http://rt.com/usa/ne...gle-agency-053/




How the National Security Agency has gone rogue:


http://www.guardian....ency-gone-rogue




The NDAA's historic assault on American liberty:


http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2012/jan/02/ndaa-historic-assault-american-liberty



Israel threat to attack Iran is not a bluff, deputy FM says:


http://www.haaretz.c...-fm-says-1.4639



why only devote to criticizing Islamic Republic of Iran ?? It does not make any sense ..

not only do they attack the Islamic Republic .. but they refuse to look at the other side .. or in what context they are ..

it seems that the anti IRI people are against them, exactly because they are not infallible .. they don't miss the chance to criticize anything they can .. even if it's not a legitimate point ..

for any Allah fearing person .. do they really think Allah will like this attitude ??

Those who take disbelievers as allies instead of the believers. Do they seek with them honor? But indeed, honor belongs to Allah entirely. 4:139

[repenter]

Ugly Jinn, on 13 May 2012 - 01:23 AM, said:

Ofcourse, take advantage of the education before departure.

Ofcourse, take advantage of the education before departure.
Why are you being a jerk? You know nothing about me. I came to Norway because i became sick during the war and Iran was boycotted at the time so they didn't have the medicine. I was sick for 11 years. After that i learned farsi and moved back to Iran. My wife is half American, she had already started her education, so i had to move back for her to finish.

And even if i did take advantage of education here whats wrong with that? They take advantage of Iran all the time, why can't we do the same? You have this tendency to give short rude answers while keeping yourself at such high esteem.

[Aarash_Australia]

repenter, on 12 May 2012 - 09:52 PM, said:

Who do you think is killing all the scientists? Didn't Hillary Clinton admit to supporting the green movement? Why would she support a movement, because she loves Iran? Khejalat nemikeshi?


Oh yes, they are only worried about Nuclear weapons in Iran. Why would you say someone is lying when there is no proof? You always claim to want proof for everything, well now is your chance to prove something of your own statements.

What?

Who do you think is killing all the scientists? I don't know, we don't have enough information. But of course you are convinced it's Mossad, right?

Didn't Hillary Clinton admit to supporting the green movement? What the hell does that have to do with anything?

Then you post a random non-sequitur video from RT about US support of terrorists in Iran........

Weird...

Oh yes, they are only worried about Nuclear weapons in Iran. Why would you say someone is lying when there is no proof? You always claim to want proof for everything, well now is your chance to prove something of your own statements.

A little something called the IAEA report. The IAEA, that well-known bastion of Zionism, Freemasonry, Illuminati, etc.


You always claim to want proof for everything - weird that, innit?


What? - Sorry, perhaps I should have put it in simpler terms: (a) the only verifiable contact between the governments of Israel and the Islamic Republic has been Israel assisting Iran in its war against Iraq; and ( the Palestinians have one of the highest standards of living in the Middle East, they've had quite enough help.

[Aarash_Australia]

Jebreil, on 13 May 2012 - 03:00 PM, said:

2 points.

1. Iran needs reform - societies are as much in need as character reform as individuals. If a Muslim sins, other Muslims must advise them against it and help them improve. If a society needs help, hating it solves no problem.

2. I wonder if when al-Qaim appears search engines will be permitted to find haram songs, haram pictures, haram videos, anything blasmpheming against God, the Prophet, the Imams, the Islamic state, the shari'a, and any website which is geared to undermine the sovereignty and Islamic identity of the state. I really wonder.

1. So you don't hate Israel? You don't hate Saudi Arabia?

2. HUH?!

[kadhim]

I mean, let's be generous here and assume, for the sake of argument, that the Iranian government is actually well intentioned in this, and not just using this to have more political control. Let's assume.
So we assume that their intention is to "prevent immorality," reasoning by analogy to the example of a government having some right to prohibit liquor stores or bars or nightclubs.

Well, first of all, the internet is not a public space. It's a network of private computer servers and computers. In Islam, there is some inherent right to privacy. The government doesn't have any business what people want to look at in the privacy of their own homes.
Now if on public computers, like in schools, or internet cafes, or government computers, or the like, the government wants to mandate the installation of filtering software, that is probably within their rights.

Secondly, these filters are notoriously useless, as the opening post of this thread so poetically demonstrates. For example, such software will block out access to searches for "breasts," but this will also end up blocking access to innocent / useful material like "breast cancer," "breast cancer prevention," "breast examination techniques," etc. And this is just one small example. The technical challenge of being able to program these filters to block out "bad stuff" without a lot of collateral damage is just overwhelming.

Edited by kadhim, 13 May 2012 - 03:47 PM.

[Philip]

kadhim, on 13 May 2012 - 03:46 PM, said:

The technical challenge of being able to program these filters to block out "bad stuff" without a lot of collateral damage is just overwhelming.

like brother SD posted today:

"سيأتي قوم من بعدكم ، الرجل الواحد منهم له أجر خمسين منكم ، قالوا : يا رسول الله نحن كنا معك ببدر وأحد وحنين ونزل فينا القرآن ، فقال : إنكم لو تحملوا ما حملوا لم تصبروا صبرهم"

The Prophet (SAWA) said, addressing some of his followers: “There will be a group of people after you, of whom one man’s reward is worth fifty of you.”

His followers responded: “Oh Messenger of Allah, we were with you at Badr, and Uhud, and Hunayn, and the Qur’an was descended upon us!”

The Prophet (SAWA) responded: “If you had to withstand what they must withstand, you would not have been as patient as them.”

[Aarash_Australia]

Philip, on 13 May 2012 - 04:32 PM, said:

like brother SD posted today:

"سيأتي قوم من بعدكم ، الرجل الواحد منهم له أجر خمسين منكم ، قالوا : يا رسول الله نحن كنا معك ببدر وأحد وحنين ونزل فينا القرآن ، فقال : إنكم لو تحملوا ما حملوا لم تصبروا صبرهم"

The Prophet (SAWA) said, addressing some of his followers: “There will be a group of people after you, of whom one man’s reward is worth fifty of you.”

His followers responded: “Oh Messenger of Allah, we were with you at Badr, and Uhud, and Hunayn, and the Qur’an was descended upon us!”

The Prophet (SAWA) responded: “If you had to withstand what they must withstand, you would not have been as patient as them.”

You know Philip, you make yourself look uneducated when you post random ayats from the Qu'ran completely out of context. This thread is not about religion, it is purely about politics.

[Philip]

Aarash_Australia, on 13 May 2012 - 03:06 PM, said:

1. So you don't hate Israel? You don't hate Saudi Arabia?

you misunderstood .. nobody here wants to help israel or saudi solve their problems ... currently they are the problem !

[Aarash_Australia]

Jebreil, I guess you are not aware, but the government doesn't just filter sex or opposition websites.

It filters all manner of educational resources - newspapers (all Australian newspapers, bizarrely, but not all British or American ones), Wikipedia pages, religious philosophy websites, Sunni websites, Christian websites, Jewish websites, Art websites, music....... all manner of things.

It's not just opposition supporters who complain of the censorship, but conservatives and Hezbollahis as well.

[kadhim]

Quote

Kadhim

The amount of internet law already existing, already being drafted and even envisaged in the world contradicts the view of the internet as outside government interference. Internet is a very public place, albeit virtual. In Europe, copyright law and laws related to sexual content webpages and business law and criminal law and much else has been enacted for keeping the internet a regulated space. An Islamic society would make illegal anything which is haram to see or hear or read.

The only real argument against the Islamic Republic is its filtering of the political oppositions, both those in exile and those within the borders. Here, one can see room for reform, especially in the political atmosphere as a whole (and evolution needs time and patience and careful planning and probably many mistakes on the way), but also when it is realised that the Islamic Republic's sovereignty is constantly under threat, one can also sympathise with their fears, while still hoping for reforms.

It is a problem when hate replaces criticism.

Well, one can maybe argue for the government being able to police servers located within the country giving access to illegal material, with an ability to shut down sites, servers, etc.
It's when you get into this high level control at the ISP level, filtering the whole internet experience of the country, etc, that things get creepy.
You give the government that much power, they're almost bound to abuse it.

[Philip]

Aarash_Australia, on 13 May 2012 - 03:00 PM, said:

Who do you think is killing all the scientists? I don't know, we don't have enough information. But of course you are convinced it's Mossad, right?

we don't have enough information? what about these:


Israel's Mossad trained assassins of Iran nuclear scientists, report says


http://www.haaretz.c...t-says-1.411945



Sunday Times: Mossad agents behind Iran scientist assassination


http://www.haaretz.c...nation-1.407593



Mossad Behind Tehran Assassinations, Says Source


http://www.spiegel.d...e-a-777899.html



Iranian assassination bears all the hallmarks of Mossad


http://www.abc.net.a...12/s3407906.htm



ISRAELI SOURCE: ASSASSINATION OF IRANIAN NUCLEAR SCIENTIST JOINT MOSSAD-MEK OPERATION


http://www.richardsi...lear-scientist/



US covert operations threaten war with Iran


http://wsws.org/arti.../iran-d10.shtml

Aarash_Australia, on 13 May 2012 - 04:47 PM, said:

Jebreil, I guess you are not aware, but the government doesn't just filter sex or opposition websites. It filters all manner of educational resources - newspapers (all Australian newspapers, bizarrely, but not all British or American ones), Wikipedia pages, religious philosophy websites, Sunni websites, Christian websites, Jewish websites, Art websites, music....... all manner of things. It's not just opposition supporters who complain of the censorship, but conservatives and Hezbollahis as well.

can you share your source showing hezb Allah complaining?

Aarash_Australia, on 13 May 2012 - 04:36 PM, said:

You know Philip, you make yourself look uneducated when you post random ayats from the Qu'ran completely out of context. This thread is not about religion, it is purely about politics.

[Edited]

Edited by inshaAllah, 14 May 2012 - 07:20 AM.
Refer to my p.m

[Ugly Jinn]

Philip stop posting youtube videos, don't be a hypocrite.

http://www.shiachat....ost__p__2397224

And you have facebook??? Astagfirullah!

http://www.shiachat....ost__p__2397856

-----------

As I said, your actions contradict the laws you support = definition of a hypocrite.

Edited by Ugly Jinn, 13 May 2012 - 05:34 PM.

[Aarash_Australia]

Philip....

1.  There are conflicting reports about who is behind the assassinations. You've just typed that into Google and cherry-picked your articles. One of the nuclear scientists was a critic of the Iranian regime, and had previously been jailed for his dissent. Many suspect he was killed by the government. Even those sources you selected, some say Mossad alone, some say Mossad and CIA, some say Mossad and CIA and MEK, etc, etc.


2.  Here is a source speaking of the Basiji and Hezbollahi complaining of the internet censorship: http://www.digarban.com/node/5919


3. Takfiri is the domain of Wahhabis, your constant accusations of me being Jewish are beginning to grow a little tiresome....

[Philip]

none of your business .. if i have a facebook or not ?? and listen to this one you spy !

i would be willing to not only stop using the internet, but to give my life inshaAllah for deen Allah !!


O you who have believed, avoid much assumption. Indeed, some assumption is sin. And do not spy or backbite each other. Would one of you like to eat the flesh of his brother when dead? You would detest it. And fear Allah ; indeed, Allah is Accepting of repentance and Merciful. 49:12


are you so desperate to find a way of bashing Islam that you continuously refer to people personal lives ??


and for you info i don't have facebook anymore ugly jinn !!  and YouTube can go to hell too .. i don't mind sacrificing YouTube and this body of mine for Allah .. something you would not understand ..

Ugly Jinn .. do you know that your name is basically Devil ?? Devils are Ugly Jinns ..

you don't seem to mind being called Ugly Jinn .. i don't know why i even talk to you .. i should curse you immediately

i suggest you change you name, if you fear Allah !

And if we had willed, We could have given every soul its guidance, but the word from Me will come into effect "I will surely fill Hell with jinn and people all together.

[Ugly Jinn]

Philip writing his post

Edited by Ugly Jinn, 13 May 2012 - 06:18 PM.

[Philip]

But as for the unjust, they will be, for Hell, firewood. 72:15

Aarash_Australia, on 13 May 2012 - 05:32 PM, said:

Philip....

1.  There are conflicting reports about who is behind the assassinations. You've just typed that into Google and cherry-picked your articles. One of the nuclear scientists was a critic of the Iranian regime, and had previously been jailed for his dissent. Many suspect he was killed by the government. Even those sources you selected, some say Mossad alone, some say Mossad and CIA, some say Mossad and CIA and MEK, etc, etc.


2.  Here is a source speaking of the Basiji and Hezbollahi complaining of the internet censorship: http://www.digarban.com/node/5919


3. Takfiri is the domain of Wahhabis, your constant accusations of me being Jewish are beginning to grow a little tiresome....

we all know that CIA, Mossad, MI6 etc are all the same .. they all want the downfall of IRI .. i got you enough sources .. and even without any sources it's obvious ..

is being jewish being a kafir? i am still convinced you're not a muslim .. you're posing .. i already suspected that before .. but no muslim will confuse a hadith with quran .. that just doesn't happen !!!

and your source is iranian, so can't read it ..

[Aarash_Australia]

Philip, on 13 May 2012 - 06:33 PM, said:

But as for the unjust, they will be, for Hell, firewood. 72:15

we all know that CIA, Mossad, MI6 etc are all the same .. they all want the downfall of IRI .. i got you enough sources .. and even without any sources it's obvious ..

is being jewish being a kafir? i am still convinced you're not a muslim .. you're posing .. i already suspected that before .. but no muslim will confuse a hadith with quran .. that just doesn't happen !!!

and your source is iranian, so can't read it ..

And your Hadith was Arabic, so I couldn't read it. (the name of the language is "Persian" btw, or "Farsi", not "Iranian")

You're a tiresome little child, and I'm not any longer going to bother replying to your constant barrage of nonsense peppered with insults.

[kadhim]

Quote

One might wish to tolerate it, but not because they are good things to be preserved, but because free speech favours the true faith. However, history has shown that free speech is not always prudent. It's a hard choice.

Yes, this is largely where I come from. I don't have any fondness for the stuff they want to block, and understand why they'd value the goal of blocking/eliminating it. But I dislike the government having the power to regulate speech and communication. It so easily slips into ugly oppressive territory.

[baradar_jackson]

Brother Repenter, Brother Jebreil, and Brother Philip have all made some strong points.

The "If you love Iran's government so much, why don't you just live there?" point (if you can call it a point) is very childish and very irrational on many levels.

But there is one issue which seemingly has not even been addressed, which is the simplest, most GED reason why this argument is weak...

The basic premise of what Arashmarblesjinnetc. is saying, is that individuals who live in the West but admire the Islamic Republic, are hypocrites, because they benefit from the freedom of speech offered in the West, while praising a system which restricts freedom of speech.

On an individual level, is this even true?!?!?

Are the people in the West who admire the IRI and are vocal about this, do they enjoy a greater level of freedom of speech in the West than they would in Iran?

They are in the Emam's line, after all. Their views reflect the official stances as espoused by the Honorable Position. Thus, would their speech in any way be restricted, in Iran?!?!?

Let me give you an actual example, to better illustrate this: there is an individual who hosted a television show in Iran. He was an Iranian national but studied in Canada. Whenever he wants to exit or enter Canada, he is subject to hours of questioning and so on....

This man, does he have more freedom of speech in Canada than in Iran?!?!?

It makes utterly no sense to suggest that WF supporters in the West are hypocritically benefiting from Western freedom of speech, when -- considering their political views -- they would have more freedom to espouse their views in Iran. Duh.

And of course the other important point: a lot of Western-born and bred Muslims (even non-Iranians), DO move to Iran! In spite of all the cultural barriers, in spite of all the legal/paperwork complications, in spite of language barriers, MANY move to Iran. (and of course this is aside from the Iranian emigres who move back to Iran). The world is bigger than what yall think.

[Aarash_Australia]

baradar jackson, you would be right, except you're not.

Supporters of Ahmadinejad are currently on trial or in prison for "expressing their freedom of speech", which they would surely argue, is according to the Imam's Line. And  many of the VF supporters on SC are also supporters of Ahmadinejad.



And comparing the tiny, infinitesimal number of converts who move to Iran (like, what, a dozen every year perhaps?) to the many millions of Muslims who migrate to the West (including pretty much everyone on this forum) only weakens the point you are trying to make.