109 replies to this topic

[Waiting for HIM]

Bradar Jackson - thanks for taking the time to put it together so well. Hope it helps clearing some minds up.

I personally do not see even a need to "educate" these poeple. Those whose hearts have been locked out of listening to the truth and comprehending it, I just have no time to waste my breath on them. I'm just waiting for the day when His Majesty (atf) will order a house cleaning and would call "you are either with us or against us".

Edited by Waiting for HIM, 12 May 2012 - 11:41 AM.

[repenter]

 macisaac, on 11 May 2012 - 07:57 PM, said:

One wonders if the die hard followers of Iran living outside its borders would voluntarily put themselves under the same restrictions they defend Iranians being put under.  (perhaps they could somehow use a proxy to go through Iran's internet filter. so no youtube for all you guys, as one example)

One can also wonder if you after all this years comprehend the fact that just because you defend the islamic movement of Iran does not mean that you defend every single action of the Islamic Government of Iran.
Pretty hard for certain members of this site it seems.

[Marbles]

 baradar_jackson, on 12 May 2012 - 10:37 AM, said:

I havent read this thread. Just making a general comment here.

If Iran had just 1 percent of the amount of influence over the minds of people in North America and Europe countries, that North America and Europe has over Iran's people, then you better believe there would be a totalitarian government ruling most Western countries.

Free speech has a time, a place, and a form. Free speech at the mass level, when there is influence from hostile elements who seek to use this free speech as a platform... well that's not free speech at all. lol.

I know probably everyone here -- whether they are the liberal douches, the Edward Tatbeerihandses, the simple simps, the hezbollahis, or even the Salafi trolls -- would agree that, if you put Chilean strongman Augusto Pinochet and the man he overthrew -- Salvador Allende -- side by side, you have to say that Allende was on the side of justice, and Pinochet on the side of injustice and falsehood. But guess what? One big reason for the success of the coup against Allende's government, was that they were not fully in control of the information. So you had a bunch of newspapers within Chile, publishing a load of c.rap against Allende. Sure, there were supportive newspapers as well, but there was enough lies in circulation to considerably weaken Allende's political authority. Aside from making it harder to implement his program, it laid the groundwork for a foreign-backed coup against him.

It almost happened to Hugo Chavez; all the private television stations in Venezuela were owned by people who hated his guts; people whose interests were being jeapardized by his power. He just had one outlet: the state TV. It still wasn't enough to prevent a color revolution which damn well near succeeded.

But who needs to go as far as Chile or Venezuela? Iran itself has experienced this; it was this same "free speech" that allowed Dr. Mosaddegh to be slandered and beaten down. Spreading a bunch of wild rumors amongst the ulama, amongst the masses, amongst his own ministers and aides. "He's an atheist." "He's a homosexual." "He's a communist." etc... These were actual rumors spread against him! In retrospect it seems ridiculous. But don't we see the same thing happening today to certain political personalities? 50 years from now we will look on many of these rumors and think how ridiculous they were!

Any movement which seeks to implement an order -- and this order is different in some way to the one which preceded it -- needs to have control over information. "Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have guns, why should we let them have ideas?" <-- that's a truth which the Western governments understand very well; only simpletons and Moozlems don't seem to get it through their heads.

Israel has ADMITTED to using twitter and other "social media" as a tool. CIA has admitted to this as well. That one dude -- I forgot his name -- was really adamant about his desire to block channels such as Press TV, Russia Today, CCTV, and TeleSUR. Press TV has actually been blocked in Britain; its signal has been jammed. And who is influenced by Press TV, in Britain?!?!? Only Shia Muslims, and only those Shia Muslims who support WF and the Islamic system in Iran. It has a negligible effect on British society and yet it has been deemed dangerous enough to British ideas that its signal has to be jammed. Compare that to Iran, where VOA or BBC just needs to say a single unsubstantiated rumor about this or that, for it to be spread amongst millions of people, as news.

But some of yall are "kaseye daghtar az ash" (the bowl that's hotter than the soup). You are more defensive of them than they are of themselves. LoL!

Anyway, that's all I have to add. I'm out...

Reading responses like this one things comes off as certain.

The history of Western intrusion in the affairs of Iran and other nieghbouring countries act as a veritable tool in the hands of the governing elites to legitimise any measures which are supposedly seen as protecting the interest of their countries and people. So in essence, asking for human rights and relative freedom for laypeople is viewed as Western agenda, devoid of any merits of its own, so long as it maintains the political system opposed to the West at home.

Ummm...not very intelligent methinks.

[Waiting for HIM]

 Waiting for HIM, on 12 May 2012 - 11:40 AM, said:

Bradar Jackson - thanks for taking the time to put it together so well. Hope it helps clearing some minds up.

I personally do not see even a need to "educate" these poeple. Those whose hearts have been locked out of listening to the truth and comprehending it, I just have no time to waste my breath on them. I'm just waiting for the day when His Majesty (atf) will order a house cleaning and would call "you are either with us or against us".

Forgot to add, I would love to have a field day that day inshAllah. What is better than squishing some anti-Allah cockroaches under my boots.

[kadhim]

The problem with those who would defend systematic censorship is that when you align yourself as "revolutionary," there will ALWAYS  be some sort of external meddling. So this situation never goes away.
Do you seriously propose to treat a sophisticated nation of 80 million people like children forever?
I thought this revolution was about making a nation of adult human beings?

I submit that if you need this level of infantilization just to keep people with the program , the program way already have failed?

What is the point of the whole project if there is such little faith in the people? Is the government there for them,or they for it?

[Marbles]

 kadhim, on 12 May 2012 - 01:51 PM, said:

What is the point of the whole project if there is such little faith in the people? Is the government there for them,or they for it?

Which reminds me of:

‘Would it not be easier in that case for the government to dissolve the people and elect another?’ - Bertolt Brecht

[Philip]

O you who believe! Take not for friends unbelievers rather than believers: Do you wish to offer Allah an open proof against yourselves? 4:144

[Aarash_Australia]

 Philip, on 12 May 2012 - 03:48 PM, said:

O you who believe! Take not for friends unbelievers rather than believers: Do you wish to offer Allah an open proof against yourselves? 4:144

and how is that relevant to the topic at hand?

[Philip]

 Aarash_Australia, on 12 May 2012 - 04:23 PM, said:

and how is that relevant to the topic at hand?

Because many people who claim to be Muslims chose non Islamic sides over the Islamic side .. Like when they continuously attack the IRI instead of praising it ..

Like when they have a problem with IRI not being perfect while they are not perfect themselves ..

Like when they spend time criticizing the Islamic Republic and don't criticize the Zionists and "democratic" governments for instance

[Aarash_Australia]

 Philip, on 12 May 2012 - 05:15 PM, said:

Because many people who claim to be Muslims chose non Islamic sides over the Islamic side .. Like when they continuously attack the IRI instead of praising it ..

Like when they have a problem with IRI not being perfect while they are not perfect themselves ..

Like when they spend time criticizing the Islamic Republic and don't criticize the Zionists and "democratic" governments for instance

Most Muslims - most Shia Muslims in fact - do not support the IRI.

Why would I spend my time on "ShiaChat" criticizing Israel? I live in Iran, Iran and Shi'ism are my concern, not Israel or Sri Lanka or Lithuania.

Get a grip.

[Ugly Jinn]

I consider it hypocritical that those who support strict conditions in Iran living in open minded societies with total freedom while benefiting from it.

If you hold dear such an atmosphere created by IRI then you cannot live in one that is the complete opposite.

You thrash yet give taxes to the countries you live in but wouldn't dare move to Iran.

The biggest hypocrites in Shia Islam.

[repenter]

 Aarash_Australia, on 12 May 2012 - 05:17 PM, said:

Most Muslims - most Shia Muslims in fact - do not support the IRI.

Why would I spend my time on "ShiaChat" criticizing Israel? I live in Iran, Iran and Shi'ism are my concern, not Israel or Sri Lanka or Lithuania.

Get a grip.

most Shia Muslims in fact - do not support the IRI.
On what basis do you say this`?


Why would I spend my time on "ShiaChat" criticizing Israel? I live in Iran, Iran and Shi'ism are my concern, not Israel or Sri Lanka or Lithuania.
So enemies of Iran and Shi'ism is not your concern? Your only concerned about internal politics then? The millions of dollars invested by Israel and USA to destabilize Iran is not your concern?

 Ugly Jinn, on 12 May 2012 - 06:31 PM, said:

I consider it hypocritical that those who support strict conditions in Iran living in open minded societies with total freedom while benefiting from it.

If you hold dear such an atmosphere created by IRI then you cannot live in one that is the complete opposite.

You thrash yet give taxes to the countries you live in but wouldn't dare move to Iran.

The biggest hypocrites in Shia Islam.

So because any person supports any given government or group they have to move there and live there?

Edited by repenter, 12 May 2012 - 07:46 PM.

[Aarash_Australia]

 repenter, on 12 May 2012 - 07:14 PM, said:

most Shia Muslims in fact - do not support the IRI.
On what basis do you say this`?


Why would I spend my time on "ShiaChat" criticizing Israel? I live in Iran, Iran and Shi'ism are my concern, not Israel or Sri Lanka or Lithuania.
So enemies of Iran and Shi'ism is not your concern? Your only concerned about internal politics then? The millions of dollars invested by Israel and USA to destabilize Iran is not your concern?

1. Demonstrable fact. If you think anything else is even close to the truth, you're just willfully deluding yourself (look at Shias in Iraq, Saudi, Pakistan, and a great deal, if not most, Iranians)

2. Who are enemies of Iran? Israel? How? Do you have any solid evidence to support that characterization? I have seen the IRI leadership openly declare their wishes that the "Zionist entity" be destroyed (or "disappear from the pages of history" as Ahmadinejad put it), a goal that I happen to agree with, in abstract. But I have never heard an Israeli Prime Minister say they want to destroy the Islamic Republic. Even the hawks like Netanyahu are only concerned with nuclear weaponization, which the IRI leadership sees fit to pursue and keep lying about.

What millions of dollars invested by "Israel and the USA" to destabilize Iran? Reliable sources please, if you know something I don't... The Green Movement was/is wholly domestic. The only thing that has been established is that Israel assisted the IRI during the Iran-Iraq War (to the tune of about $500 million plus arms - see Trita Parsi).





The Palestinian Arabs receive billions of dollars in aid from the West (mostly, and from the Saudis a little) and have done nothing with it but become increasingly corrupt, and/or increasingly Wahhabi. They call me Kafir and majoos. Why should I care about them - when they have one of the highest standards of living in the Middle East? The people of Somalia and Congo need our attention, not Palestine - they have plenty of attention as it is (and their leaders bank accounts prove it).

[kadhim]

Repenter,
I don't know that you need to be willing to move there if you want to support the country.
But I would say it must take some chutzpah to live here, enjoying free access to the internet to get whatever information one desires, say whatever one desires, and then turn around and speak out in favor of another country restricting that same freedom for its citizens. If someone is willing to advocate that for other people, yet is not ready to join them, that's a little hard to swallow.

[Ugly Jinn]

 repenter, on 12 May 2012 - 07:14 PM, said:

So because any person supports any given government or group they have to move there and live there?

You support laws in Iran which suffocate the citizens yet enjoy full freedom in a country which you trash in a regular basis. On top of that you pay taxes which directly/indirectly are used against the religious political government you support.

That's the definition of a hypocrite.

Edited by Ugly Jinn, 12 May 2012 - 09:37 PM.

[repenter]

 Aarash_Australia, on 12 May 2012 - 08:14 PM, said:

1. Demonstrable fact. If you think anything else is even close to the truth, you're just willfully deluding yourself (look at Shias in Iraq, Saudi, Pakistan, and a great deal, if not most, Iranians)

2. Who are enemies of Iran? Israel? How? Do you have any solid evidence to support that characterization? I have seen the IRI leadership openly declare their wishes that the "Zionist entity" be destroyed (or "disappear from the pages of history" as Ahmadinejad put it), a goal that I happen to agree with, in abstract. But I have never heard an Israeli Prime Minister say they want to destroy the Islamic Republic. Even the hawks like Netanyahu are only concerned with nuclear weaponization, which the IRI leadership sees fit to pursue and keep lying about.

What millions of dollars invested by "Israel and the USA" to destabilize Iran? Reliable sources please, if you know something I don't... The Green Movement was/is wholly domestic. The only thing that has been established is that Israel assisted the IRI during the Iran-Iraq War (to the tune of about $500 million plus arms - see Trita Parsi).


The Palestinian Arabs receive billions of dollars in aid from the West (mostly, and from the Saudis a little) and have done nothing with it but become increasingly corrupt, and/or increasingly Wahhabi. They call me Kafir and majoos. Why should I care about them - when they have one of the highest standards of living in the Middle East? The people of Somalia and Congo need our attention, not Palestine - they have plenty of attention as it is (and their leaders bank accounts prove it).

1. you aren't the only one who has lived/lives in Iran It all depends on the crowed you choose to surround yourself with.

2.
Who are enemies of Iran? Israel? How? Do you have any solid evidence to support that characterization?



Who do you think is killing all the scientists? Didn't Hillary Clinton admit to supporting the green movement? Why would she support a movement, because she loves Iran? Khejalat nemikeshi?

But I have never heard an Israeli Prime Minister say they want to destroy the Islamic Republic. Even the hawks like Netanyahu are only concerned with nuclear weaponization, which the IRI leadership sees fit to pursue and keep lying about.
Oh yes, they are only worried about Nuclear weapons in Iran. Why would you say someone is lying when there is no proof? You always claim to want proof for everything, well now is your chance to prove something of your own statements.

The Palestinian Arabs receive billions of dollars in aid from the West (mostly, and from the Saudis a little) and have done nothing with it but become increasingly corrupt, and/or increasingly Wahhabi. They call me Kafir and majoos. Why should I care about them - when they have one of the highest standards of living in the Middle East? The people of Somalia and Congo need our attention, not Palestine - they have plenty of attention as it is (and their leaders bank accounts prove it).

What?

 kadhim, on 12 May 2012 - 09:18 PM, said:

Repenter,
I don't know that you need to be willing to move there if you want to support the country.
But I would say it must take some chutzpah to live here, enjoying free access to the internet to get whatever information one desires, say whatever one desires, and then turn around and speak out in favor of another country restricting that same freedom for its citizens. If someone is willing to advocate that for other people, yet is not ready to join them, that's a little hard to swallow.

Only reason i moved back to Norway was that my wife can finish her education, im moving back to Iran after this.

[ABA]

Standards of morality, criminality, and appropriate content vary from country-to-country.  America may think it's okay to push Zionist-created and funded content on its population (Iran does not).  America may think it's okay for its kids to see videos of people having sex with farm animals (Iran doesn't)

The internet is also used for many reasons - some innocent but some subversive: Don't you think the CIA and Mossad would use technology to peddle their agendas to younger people who may not be politically knowledgable?  It's already been done.

[repenter]

 Ugly Jinn, on 12 May 2012 - 09:33 PM, said:

You support laws in Iran which suffocate the citizens yet enjoy full freedom in a country which you trash in a regular basis. On top of that you pay taxes which directly/indirectly are used against the religious political government you support.

That's the definition of a hypocrite.

Failed to answer my question.

I have lived in Iran and I'm moving back again when my wife finishes her studies. I don't enjoy living here as it's laws, morals and view of life are suffocating me as much as Iranian laws are suffocating liberals in northern Tehran.

[Philip]

 Aarash_Australia, on 12 May 2012 - 05:17 PM, said:

Most Muslims - most Shia Muslims in fact - do not support the IRI.

Why would I spend my time on "ShiaChat" criticizing Israel? I live in Iran, Iran and Shi'ism are my concern, not Israel or Sri Lanka or Lithuania.

Get a grip.

You get a grip !  Any Islamic person will support an Islamic government.

You wish that all Muslims would be hypocrite right? And islam isn't limited to any border .. the IRI Revolution belongs to all Muslims and people like you hate it .. Materialistic people who don't seem to understand what islam is about in first place ..

Islamic revolution shall be successful inshaAllah, wether enemies of Islam like it or not.

 ABA, on 12 May 2012 - 09:52 PM, said:

Standards of morality, criminality, and appropriate content vary from country-to-country.  America may think it's okay to push Zionist-created and funded content on its population (Iran does not).  America may think it's okay for its kids to see videos of people having sex with farm animals (Iran doesn't)

The internet is also used for many reasons - some innocent but some subversive: Don't you think the CIA and Mossad would use technology to peddle their agendas to younger people who may not be politically knowledgable?  It's already been done.

Some people here wish the zionists would take over Iran .. slash away the "Islamic" .. and have another puppet regime in place. Allah forbid ..

Shameful and blatantly anti-Islamic .. Rejectors / Kafirs in the truest sense! May Allah curse all the enemies of Islam .. May Allah destroy all the
enemies of Islam, may Allah incapacitate all the enemies of Islam!

 Ugly Jinn, on 12 May 2012 - 06:31 PM, said:

I consider it hypocritical that those who support strict conditions in Iran living in open minded societies with total freedom while benefiting from it.

If you hold dear such an atmosphere created by IRI then you cannot live in one that is the complete opposite.

You thrash yet give taxes to the countries you live in but wouldn't dare move to Iran.

The biggest hypocrites in Shia Islam.

What is this weak and pointless argument I keep on hearing again and again? Why talk as if every Muslim has a choice to live in Iran? Obviously most don't .. And our hope is that the Islamic revolution spreads to the rest of the world insha Allah ! And it will insha Allah eventually .. then the enemies of Islam will all be silenced and overcome Allah willing ..

[Wahdat]

 kadhim, on 12 May 2012 - 01:51 PM, said:

The problem with those who would defend systematic censorship is that when you align yourself as "revolutionary," there will ALWAYS  be some sort of external meddling. So this situation never goes away.
Do you seriously propose to treat a sophisticated nation of 80 million people like children forever?
I thought this revolution was about making a nation of adult human beings?

I submit that if you need this level of infantilization just to keep people with the program , the program way already have failed?

What is the point of the whole project if there is such little faith in the people? Is the government there for them,or they for it?

Its not about faith in people as much as faith for people's security. Its about protecting the interest os state and society from external threats. Its all very natural really.


US asks for Twitter outage delay

http://news.bbc.co.u...ast/8104182.stm


In Egypt Facebook played a pivotal role and the world stood by it. Even they made a Hero out of that facebook guy. But the same could not be given to the Palestinians when Palestinian mobilization was supposed to take place....because then it involves Israel- a territory where all rules and laws bend and goal posts changed. Because its not about freedom but security.
An example,


ADL slams Facebook for refusing to remove 'third Intifada' fan page

http://www.haaretz.c...n-page-1.351881


Israel to Apple: Take down 'Third Intifada' app

http://www.haaretz.c...da-app-1.368933


Israel demands Facebook remove 'Third Intifada' fan page

http://www.haaretz.c...n-page-1.352368



Last but not least-


Facebook removes page calling for a 'Third Palestinian Intifada'

http://www.haaretz.c...tifada-1.352623


Apple removes 'Third Palestinian Intifada' app at Israel's request

http://www.haaretz.c...equest-1.369211

[MysticKnight]

Two wrongs don't make a right.

[Wahdat]

 Ugly Jinn, on 12 May 2012 - 06:31 PM, said:

I consider it hypocritical that those who support strict conditions in Iran living in open minded societies with total freedom while benefiting from it.

If you hold dear such an atmosphere created by IRI then you cannot live in one that is the complete opposite.

You thrash yet give taxes to the countries you live in but wouldn't dare move to Iran.

The biggest hypocrites in Shia Islam.

Consider Iran as your house and all the mischievous social media (strictly in a political & security sense) as the various sorts of bars and clubs in your city. Now would you consider yourself a hypocrite by excluding clubs and pubs from your reality? Isnt that what Iran is doing? How sane would it sound if one argued that since one excludes bars and clubs from their lives should go to countries with no bars and clubs?  
Its always honorable when people applied their own rules based on their own customs and not hypocritical. Its also prudent.

[Ugly Jinn]

 repenter, on 12 May 2012 - 09:54 PM, said:

I have lived in Iran and I'm moving back again when my wife finishes her studies. I don't enjoy living here as it's laws, morals and view of life are suffocating me as much as Iranian laws are suffocating liberals in northern Tehran.

Ofcourse, take advantage of the education before departure.

 Philip, on 12 May 2012 - 10:53 PM, said:

What is this weak and pointless argument I keep on hearing again and again? Why talk as if every Muslim has a choice to live in Iran? Obviously most don't .. And our hope is that the Islamic revolution spreads to the rest of the world insha Allah ! And it will insha Allah eventually .. then the enemies of Islam will all be silenced and overcome Allah willing ..

You do have a choice, yet you will not live there. You will have this long distance love knowing you'll never have to be in the position of those suffering in Iran.

This failed talk of wanting revolution to spread is an excuse to live comfortably where you're at knowing it's not going to happen. Keep trashing the system you live in and pay taxes to it, I'm sure that money is used wisely.

Basically, you are living in a place you hate (total denial), and will never live in the place you love (long distance love only).

 Wahdat, on 13 May 2012 - 12:54 AM, said:

Consider Iran as your house and all the mischievous social media (strictly in a political & security sense) as the various sorts of bars and clubs in your city. Now would you consider yourself a hypocrite by excluding clubs and pubs from your reality? Isnt that what Iran is doing? How sane would it sound if one argued that since one excludes bars and clubs from their lives should go to countries with no bars and clubs?  
Its always honorable when people applied their own rules based on their own customs and not hypocritical. Its also prudent.

Why do people take it to irrelevant extremes, freedom equates to bars/clubs? Is that really the depth of what freedom means?

If I'm not even allowed to voice my disagreements in my own house then it's not a house, it's a prison.

Edited by Ugly Jinn, 13 May 2012 - 01:31 AM.

[Philip]

 Ugly Jinn, on 13 May 2012 - 01:23 AM, said:

You do have a choice, yet you will not live there. You will have this long distance love knowing you'll never have to be in the position of those suffering in Iran. This failed talk of wanting revolution to spread is an excuse to live comfortably where you're at knowing it's not going to happen. Keep trashing the system you live in and pay taxes to it, I'm sure that money is used wisely. Basically, you are living in a place you hate (total denial), and will never live in the place you love (long distance love only). Why do people take it to irrelevant extremes, freedom equates to bars/clubs? Is that really the depth of what freedom means? If I'm not even allowed to voice my disagreements in my own house then it's not a house, it's a prison.

you don't even know where i'm living to judge anything about me !! telling me i'm living in comfort ??

you don't know my situation in life to judge wether i can move to Iran or not .. are you Allah to know all the secrets and all the details of people's private lives .. of the billion plus .. muslims on earth ?? better stay away from judging individual lives of people you don't know .. you don't even know where i live !! you probably think i'm living in a rich western country ..  don't you see that your argument here is not valid and not realistic .. you don't know me !! or anything about me !!

it's not about the place .. it's about the faith !! i suggest you study some quran for a month or two then come back to ShiaChat again .. as a born-again muslim

Let not believers take disbelievers as allies rather than believers. And whoever does that has nothing with Allah , except when taking precaution against them in prudence. And Allah warns you of Himself, and to Allah is the destination. 3:28


people take sides with non-believers by criticizing and attacking the Islamic Republic instead of attacking the satanic forces .. who are threatening to attack the IRI every day ..

instead of blaming the attackers (just read the news) .. they attack the defenders .. the ones who "take precaution against them" .. while ironically i don't see the same supposed muslims attack the attackers .. shame on them really !! shame !! shame !! shame !!


we have a shia muslim government, and then people who claim to be shia attack it .. and never blame the ones who are its enemies ..


shame on them !!

[Ugly Jinn]

^ Wherever it is, it's not Iran. That I can gaurentee.