28 replies to this topic

[Dar'ul_Islam]

I am posting this topic to inform the community that there is aى `aalim and reputable Marja` that say it is not wajib to recite a complete Surah in the Obligatory prayers after Fatiha. Here is a screen shot from the Minaj al-Saliheen from Sayed Muhammad Sadiq Rohani [ha]:




You can download his Minaj here: http://ar.rohani.ir/pub-17.htm
I got my `Arab friend to translate the screenshot page so as to leave me with no doubt, Allah [swt] bless and forgive him:

Quote

Chapter Four: In Recitation
663: It is required in the first and the second Rakaas in each obligated (Faridha) or optional (Nafilla) prayer to recite the Opening of the Book (Al-Fatiha), and it is required after the Fatiha in the obligated prayer to recite another suraa or part of it. If he recited the second one before Al-Fatiha, intentionally, he has to repeat the prayer. If he did that inadvertently and he realized that before Rukouaa then: if he recited Al-Fatiha, he has to repeat the second surra, and if he did not recite Al-Fatiha, he has to recite Al-Fatiha and the second surra or part of it after that. If he realized that after Rukouaa, he continue his prayer even if he forgot both surraas or one of them and remember that after Rukouaa.

664: It is not required to recite a complete surra after Al-Fatiha in the obligated prayer, and it is not required in the Nafilla even it became an obligated by Nathr (thing that you say to Allah that you are going to do if something you want happened) or something else. Yes, in the Nafillas that was stated to recite specific suraas, it is required to recite that surras, and that prayer is not correct without them unless that surras are required for it's completeness not its legitimacy (difficult to explain what the last two words mean, it is the language of Hawza).

665: It is not required to recite the second surra after Al-Fatiha if you are sick, harry, afraid from something if you recite, or there is no enough time. It is better (Ahtiat Aistihbai) for the first two reasons to do that depending on the difficulty you have if you recite, and it seems that the common sense (Urf) is enough for that.

666: It is not permitted to recite long surras that with them you can loose the time, and if you do that intentionally, your prayer is not correct (Batilla), and it is enough to recite part of the surra within the time -----------  

Therefore, if you follow a Marja` that says to recite complete Surah on precaution (like Sayed Sistani [ha] does), you may do rujoo` to Sayed Rohani [ha] and recite only part of a Surah.

This is very helpful if you're trying to memorize surahs, by the way. And for those of you who doubt the ijtihad on this matter, you can see various hadith here:
http://www.tashayyu....iraah/chapter-4
http://islamicsalvat...-us-x-none.html

You can see that there are hadith that say it's allowed to recite part, but this is traditionally been said to be taqiyya or talking about nawafil. The first doesn't make sense (why would they dissimulate and recite part when they could just recite the whole...) and the other, apparently, an assumption. There are other ways to reconcile these hadith without resorting to taqiyya or naafilah (the questions/answer do not even show hint of nafilah). Also, the phrase "laa" something isn't usually interpreted to be forbidden, just makrooh - and more obviously with the word "kiraaha" or "akrahu" - coming from the same root as makrooh.

wa Allah a`lam.

في امان الله

Edited by Dar'ul_Islam, 10 May 2012 - 08:01 AM.

[Al-Englisi]

Salams,

Ayatullah Shuberi Zanjani (hz) also does not consider reciting the second surah (after Hamd) as compulsory, rather he believes it is highly mustahab. Inshallah i will post a translation of his farsi fatwa when i get back later tonight.

[Dar'ul_Islam]

sweet89, on 10 May 2012 - 08:12 AM, said:

Salams,

Ayatullah Shuberi Zanjani (hz) also does not consider reciting the second surah (after Hamd) as compulsory, rather he believes it is highly mustahab. Inshallah i will post a translation of his farsi fatwa when i get back later tonight.

Do you mean he doesn't consider the second surah necessary at all or do you mean he allows the reciting of part of a Surah after Fatihah, or both?

في امان الله

Edited by Dar'ul_Islam, 10 May 2012 - 08:19 AM.

[Nader Zaveri]

al-Toosi says something very interesting his book, al-Nihaayah fee Mujarrad al-Fiqh wa al-Fataawa: (translation is rough)


و كذلك لا يجوز أن يقتصر على بعض سورة و هو يحسن تمامها. فمن اقتصر على بعضها و هو متمكن لقراءة جميعها، كانت صلاته ناقصة، و ان لم يجب عليه إعادتها.
And also it is not permissible that you shorten one of the surahs, and he (knows) it completely. And whoever shortens some of it, and he is versed in all of its recitation (i.e. knows the complete surah), his salah is imperfect, but it is not wajib upon him to repeat it
Source:
al-Toosi, al-Nihaayah, Kitaab al-Salaah, Baab al-Qiraa'aat, pg. 76


So, this is only regarding Surahs you know completely. What if someone recites a part of al-Baqarah (i.e. verses 255-257), and he doesn't know the whole Surah al-Baqarah? Based off the statement, it seems like he didn't say anything regarding that.

Edited by Nader Zaveri, 10 May 2012 - 09:58 AM.

[Qa'im]

This makes good sense to me. We have narrations which indicate that the Imams recited part of a Surah after Fatiha in obligatory prayers, and the scholars generally interpreted this to have been done in taqiyya. But this doesn't make much sense to me - why would the Imam recite an incomplete Surah in fear of the authorities? In every Sunni madhhab, there's no problem with reciting a full Surah, and it is never associated with Shi`ism or Rafidha at all. Why would the Imam fear reciting a full Surah when his enemies would do the same? If the Imams did this and not out of taqiyya, then it would be permissible for us to do the same, and it's not logical to me that this is an issue they'd do taqiyya on.

It also makes practical sense to me that this would be allowed. At the moment we are limited to only reading short Surahs in obligatory prayers, so most of what we read and listen to are Meccan chapters. The ability to read incomplete chapters in prayer would open the possibility of hearing the rest of the Qur'an.

[Dar'ul_Islam]

Here is the section on the Negation of the Obligation of Reciting a Complete Surah in the obligatory prayers in Sayed Rohani [ha]'s Fiqh as-Sadiq [as]:

Quote

ÚÏã æÌæÈ ÇáÓæÑÉ ÇáßÇãáÉ Ýí ÇáÕáÇÉ

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ÇÈä íÒíÏ : ÞáÊ áÇÈí ÚÈÏ Çááå ( Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã ) : íÞÑà ÇáÑÌá ÇáÓæÑÉ ÇáæÇÍÏÉ Ýí ÇáÑßÚÊíä
............................................................................
( 1 ) ÇáæÓÇÆá ÈÇÈ 2 ãä ÃÈæÇÈ ÇáÞÑÇÆÉ Ýí ÇáÕáÇÉ ÍÏíË 3 .
( 2 ) ÇáæÓÇÆá ÈÇÈ 2 ãä ÃÈæÇÈ ÇáÞÑÇÆÉ Ýí ÇáÕáÇÉ ÍÏíË 1


[ . . . ]
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æÕÍíÍ ÇÈÇä Èä ÚËãÇä Úãä ÇÎÈÑå Úä ÇÍÏåãÇ ( Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã ) ÞÇá : ÓÇáÊå
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ÇáßËíÑÉ æÝíåÇ ÌãáÉ ãä ÇáÕÍÇÍ .
æÞÏ ÇæÑÏ ÚáíåÇ ÈÇíÑÇÏÇÊ :
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ÈíäåãÇ ¡ ÝáÇ æÌå ááÑÌæÚ Åáì ãÑÌÍÇÊ ÈÇÈ ÇáÊÚÇÑÖ ¡ æãäå íÙåÑ ÏÝÚ ÇáÇíÑÇÏ ÇáËÇäí
æåæ Çäå ÊÚÇÑÖåÇ ÇáäÕæÕ ÇáãÊÞÏãÉ ÇáÏÇáÉ Úáì æÌæÈ ÇáÓæÑÉ ÇáßÇãáÉ ãÖÇÝÇ Åáì ãÇ
ÊÞÏã ãä ÚÏã ÇáÏáíá Úáíå .
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ÇáÇÓÊÚÌÇá æÇáÎæÝ .
æÝíå Çä ãÝÇÏå Úáì ÝÑÖ ÊãÇãíÉ ÏáÇáÊå Úáì ÚÏã ÌæÇÒ ÇáÇÞÊÕÇÑ Úáì ÇáÍãÏ Ýí
.............................................................................
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( 2 ) ÇáæÓÇÆá ÈÇÈ 4 ãä ÇáÞÑÇÆÉ Ýí ÇáÕáÇÉ ÍÏíË 5 .
( 3 ) ÇáæÓÇÆá ÈÇÈ 4 ãä ÇáÞÑÇÆÉ Ýí ÇáÕáÇÉ ÍÏíË 6


[ . . . ]
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áæ ÔÑÚ ÝíåÇ .
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򊌂 .
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æÝíå Çä ãæÇÝÞÉ ÇáÚÇãÉ ÇäãÇ Êßæä ãä ãÑÌÍÇÊ ÇÍÏì ÇáÍÌÊíä Úáì ÇáÇÎÑì
ÈÚÏ ÝÞÏ ÌãáÉ ãä ÇáãÑÌÍÇÊ áÇãä ããíÒÇÊ ÇáÍÌÉ Úä ÇááÇÍÌÉ .
ÝÊÍÕá ããÇ ÐßÑäÇå : Çäå Úáì ÝÑÖ ÊÓáíã æÌæÈ ÔíÆ Ýí ÇáÞÑÇÁÉ ÒÇÆÏÇ Úáì
ÇáÍãÏ áÇ Ïáíá Úáì æÌæÈ ÓæÑÉ ßÇãáÉ ¡ Èá ãÞÊÖì ÇáäÕæÕ ÌæÇÒ ÇáÊÈÚíÖ ßãÇ Úä
ÈÚÖ ÇáÇÓÇØíä ÇáÇÝÊÇÁ Èå ¡ æØÑíÞ ÇáÇÍÊíÇØ ãÚáæã .

Ýí ÇãÇä Çááå

[Chaotic Muslem]

i am confused
dose this mean that we can read a chapter from quraan from its middle ?in the first rak'aa?

dose this mean that we can recite part of a chapetr in the first rak'aa and another part of another chapter in a second rak'aa?
or dose this mean that one chapetr of quraan should be compelted through one prayer if one can do it?

[Dar'ul_Islam]

Well, if someone who knows Arabic would translate these Questions on Rohani's website, we'll have more knowledge on this subject:

Quote

ماحكم من قرأة السورة التي بعد الفاتحة بدون تعيين مسبق ولو كان فيه إشكال فما الوسيلة الصحيحة لعدم الوقوع فيه ؟

بإسمه جلت أسمائه
لا يجب تعيين مسبق بل يكفي التعين حين أراد القرائة .

http://ar.rohani.ir/istefta-3990.htm

Quote

هل يجوز للمكلف أن يقرأ سورة بعد الفاتحة بنية أن يعدل منها إلى غيرها قبل بلوغ النصف أي أنه كان ينوي ذلك ابتداءً قبل قراءتها واتخاذ ذلك عادة له ، أو أن الجواز مقتصر على أن يقرأ بنية إكمال السورة ويتراءى له في أثناء القراءة العدول فيعدل وعلى فرض الجواز هل في فعل ذلك رجحان أو أن تركه أفضل ؟


بإسمه جلت أسمائه
يجوز ان يقرأ سورة بعد الفاتحة بنية ان يعدل منها قبل بلوغ النصف او الثلثين و الظاهر عدم الكراهة في ذلك و ان كان قرابة سورتين كاملتين مكروهة ـ و على اي تقدير الكراهة في هذه الموارد لست كراهة مصطلحة بل المراد منها الاقل ثوابا .  

http://ar.rohani.ir/istefta-3820.htm

Quote

ما معنى تعيين السورة بعد الفاتحة و قبل البسملة ( ولو إجمالاً ) ؟

بإسمه جلت أسمائه
المراد انه من جهة ان البسملة جزء من كل سورة من سور القرآن فوقوعها جزءاً للسورة التي يقرأها لابد من تعين السورة كي بقصد البسملة التي تكون جزئها.

http://ar.rohani.ir/istefta-3894.htm

Quote

هل يجوز قراءة آية الكرسي في الصلاة الواجبة حيث ان الامامية لا يجوز عندهم قراءة آية بل سورة كاملة ؟

بإسمه جلت أسمائه
مع فرض لزوم سورة كاملة ( و ان كان ذلك محل تأمل ) قرائة آية الكرسي وحدها لا تكون مجزية

http://ar.rohani.ir/istefta-3939.htm


Very much appreciate whoever is willing to help, Allah [swt] bless them.

في امان الله

Edited by Dar'ul_Islam, 10 May 2012 - 01:05 PM.

[Chaotic Muslem]

Dar, on 10 May 2012 - 01:04 PM, said:

Well, if someone who knows Arabic would translate these Questions on Rohani's website, we'll have more knowledge on this subject:

[/color][/font][/color]
http://ar.rohani.ir/istefta-3990.htm


http://ar.rohani.ir/istefta-3820.htm


http://ar.rohani.ir/istefta-3894.htm[/color]

[/color]
http://ar.rohani.ir/istefta-3939.htm


Very much appreciate whoever is willing to help, Allah [swt] bless them.

في امان الله

rough translation
the first three questions are about neyah and choosing a specific surra before starting to recite bismillah because bismillah is part of the surrah so you should know what will you start bismillah with
the first is when the decision should be made ?
at the time of the recitation (( i gues  they mean  just dont be sleepy and not knowing what have you read ))

second question : if you read this surra to its half , should you continoue or can you change it to another surrah ?
the answer is : he may have teh neyah to read incomplete surra and change it before he reachs its half to another surrah ,
reading 2 complete  chapters is makrooh ( makrooh in sense it is less rewarding))

third question:what is the meaning of the obligation to choose a surrha before the bismillah ?
just to make sure you are not sleepy <<<<< my rough translation

fourth question:
is it allowed to read ayat kursi in salat giving that according to emameyah fiqh , one can not read an ayah alone during salat but instead a whole chapter_surra ?

if accept that a whole chapter is necessary (though this is something to ponder about) ayat kursi is not enough

[Aly ReZa]

sistani sahab fatwa?

[Al-Englisi]

Dar, on 10 May 2012 - 08:19 AM, said:

Do you mean he doesn't consider the second surah necessary at all or do you mean he allows the reciting of part of a Surah after Fatihah, or both?

في امان الله

He doesn't consider it necessary at all, only 'mustahab mo'akkad, it seems that you have to recite the whole surah as there is no separate ruling about reading only half a surah.

Quote

Ruling 987: In the first and second units of the obligatory prayers, one must firstly recite Hamd and thereafter its is an extremely [emphasised] recommended [act] to recite one complete surah, furthermore reciting surah is also 'itheyat mustahab'.

[Chaotic Muslem]

sweet89, on 10 May 2012 - 02:39 PM, said:

He doesn't consider it necessary at all, only 'mustahab mo'akkad, it seems that you have to recite the whole surah as there is no separate ruling about reading only half a surah.

ihtiyat rulings always makes me confused
ihteyat wajib, ihteyat mo'akad , ihteyat mostahab 0.o
it is either ehtyeat or mo'akad (precaution or a certainity )
where dose this ruling originate from?

[Al-Englisi]

Chaotic Muslem, on 10 May 2012 - 03:09 PM, said:

ihtiyat rulings always makes me confused
ihteyat wajib, ihteyat mo'akad , ihteyat mostahab 0.o
it is either ehtyeat or mo'akad (precaution or a certainity )
where dose this ruling originate from?

I knew i should have refrenced it, but i hate writing farsi/arabic without transliteration, and since i was feeling lazy i decided not to add the books name as i had already mentioned it was Sayed Shuberi Zanjani (ha) fatwa.

mo'akad = emphasised, ya3ni it is highly recommended and emphasised that you practise recomendary precaution in this case, which is to recite the 2nd surah, but its not wajib.

the ruling is from:

Quote

Risaleh Tawzih al-Masa'il - Ayatullah al-udhma Sayed Shuberi Zanjani

Bab Salat, Bahth Qira'at

[macisaac]

Interesting thread.  In `Allama Hilli's Mukhtalif ash-Shi`a, one of the issues he discusses whether it is wajib to recite a sura after al-Hamd in the first two rak`at.  Amongst the ancients, he lists the following as advocating its wujub (which he states as being the famous (mashhoor) view amongst the Shi`a):


Shaykh Tusi in al-Jumal, al-Khilaf, and al-Istibsar
Sharif Murtada
Ibn Abi `Aqil
Abu ‘s-Salah al-Halabi
Ibn al-Barraj
Ibn Idris al-Hilli

And on the side of its being mustahabb, he cites the following ancients:


Shaykh Tusi in an-Nihaya
Ibn al-Junayd
Sallar ad-Daylami



(this gives me an idea for an interesting book...)

[Islamic Salvation]

We have this Mu'tabar Hadith directly related to the topic which at-Tusi says is based upon Taqiyyah.

ما رواه الحسين بن سعيد عن محمد بن أبي عمير عن أبان بن عثمان عن إسماعيل ابن الفضل قال: صلى بنا أبو عبد الله أو أبو جعفر (ع) فقرأ بفاتحة الكتاب وآخر سورة المائدة فلما سلم التفت إلينا فقال أما إني أردت أن أعلمكم

What was narrated by al-Husayn b. Said from Muhammad b. Abi Umayr from Aban b. Uthman from Ismail b. Fadhl who said:
lead us in prayer Abu Abdillah or Abu Ja'far (once), so he recited the Fatihatul Kitab and and the last part of Suratil Maidah, so when he had made the Salaam, he turned to us and said: as for me I wanted to teach you.

at-Tusi interprets what the Imam wanted to teach to be the allowance of the recital of less than a Surah after the Fatihatul Kitab based on precaution and dissimulation in certain circumstances, those who supports this view point to the fact that it was not a normal incidence (the Imam did not normally lead the prayer in such a way), hence the need for an explanation and it being an incidence worth narrating.

A more important reason is to reconcile it with the Sahiha of Ibn Hazm, you have to agree that at the least the 'La' there is pointing to Karahah (and the Imam do not engage in Makruh acts).

On the other hand, others could argue that the Imam simply wanted to teach that this is indeed allowed in any circumstance and so practised it.

Edited by Islamic Salvation, 12 May 2012 - 07:44 AM.

[Chaotic Muslem]

i cant get this topic out of my head

i am wondering how could muslims disgree on which part of prayer is wajib and whihc part is mustahab

i mean , prophet did pray 5 times a day with muslims so did at least 11 imam after him , how hard was it to memorize which is which ?

[rotten_coconut]

Salam bro Dar'ul Islam & all other brothers/sisters,

So, basically we have these ahadith that need to be reconciled (http://www.tashayyu....iraah/chapter-4), assuming all of these are sahih/hasan/muwaththaq:

Quote

2 – And from Ahmad b. Idris from Muhammad b. Ahmad from Muhammad b. `Abd al-Hamid from Sayf b. `Amira from Mansur b. Hazim.  He said: Abu `Abdillah عليه السلام said: Do not recite less or more in the ordained (salat) than a sura.
Muhammad b. al-Hasan by his isnad from Muhammad b. Ya`qub likewise.

Quote

4 – And by his isnad from Ahmad b. Muhammad from al-Hasan b. `Ali b. Yaqtin from his brother al-Husayn from `Ali b. Yaqtin in a hadith wherein he said: I asked Abu ‘l-Hasan عليه السلام about partitioning the sura.  He said: I dislike [that], but there is no harm with it in the nafila.

Quote

5 – And from him from al-Husayn b. Sa`id from Faddala b. Ayyub from Aban b. `Uthman from the one who informed him from one of the two of them عليهما السلام.  He said: I asked him whether the sura can be divided in two rak`a.  He said: Yes, divide it however you want.

By a quick glance, why can't we say hadith no.4 is the reconciliation of hadith no. 2 & no.5, i.e.
- Nafilah: no problem in reciting in full or partial
- Faridha: Recite the surah in partial is makruh

Islamic Salvation, on 12 May 2012 - 07:41 AM, said:

We have this Mu'tabar Hadith directly related to the topic which at-Tusi says is based upon Taqiyyah.

ما رواه الحسين بن سعيد عن محمد بن أبي عمير عن أبان بن عثمان عن إسماعيل ابن الفضل قال: صلى بنا أبو عبد الله أو أبو جعفر (ع) فقرأ بفاتحة الكتاب وآخر سورة المائدة فلما سلم التفت إلينا فقال أما إني أردت أن أعلمكم

What was narrated by al-Husayn b. Said from Muhammad b. Abi Umayr from Aban b. Uthman from Ismail b. Fadhl who said:
lead us in prayer Abu Abdillah or Abu Ja'far (once), so he recited the Fatihatul Kitab and and the last part of Suratil Maidah, so when he had made the Salaam, he turned to us and said: as for me I wanted to teach you.

at-Tusi interprets what the Imam wanted to teach to be the allowance of the recital of less than a Surah after the Fatihatul Kitab based on precaution and dissimulation in certain circumstances, those who supports this view point to the fact that it was not a normal incidence (the Imam did not normally lead the prayer in such a way), hence the need for an explanation and it being an incidence worth narrating.

A more important reason is to reconcile it with the Sahiha of Ibn Hazm, you have to agree that at the least the 'La' there is pointing to Karahah (and the Imam do not engage in Makruh acts).

On the other hand, others could argue that the Imam simply wanted to teach that this is indeed allowed in any circumstance and so practised it.

Hadith no. 4 clearly states that it's makruh, then if the hadith you quoted is true, then it means that the Imam DID makruh act?
I don't understand, what the Imam was trying to teach here?

Nader Zaveri, on 10 May 2012 - 09:51 AM, said:

al-Toosi says something very interesting his book, al-Nihaayah fee Mujarrad al-Fiqh wa al-Fataawa: (translation is rough)


و كذلك لا يجوز أن يقتصر على بعض سورة و هو يحسن تمامها. فمن اقتصر على بعضها و هو متمكن لقراءة جميعها، كانت صلاته ناقصة، و ان لم يجب عليه إعادتها.
And also it is not permissible that you shorten one of the surahs, and he (knows) it completely. And whoever shortens some of it, and he is versed in all of its recitation (i.e. knows the complete surah), his salah is imperfect, but it is not wajib upon him to repeat it
Source:
al-Toosi, al-Nihaayah, Kitaab al-Salaah, Baab al-Qiraa'aat, pg. 76


So, this is only regarding Surahs you know completely. What if someone recites a part of al-Baqarah (i.e. verses 255-257), and he doesn't know the whole Surah al-Baqarah? Based off the statement, it seems like he didn't say anything regarding that.

How did he get to this conclusion? Is there any hadith that support this?

Edited by rotten_coconut, 19 May 2012 - 11:24 AM.

[Dar'ul_Islam]

rotten_coconut, on 19 May 2012 - 11:23 AM, said:

Salam bro Dar'ul Islam & all other brothers/sisters,

So, basically we have these ahadith that need to be reconciled (http://www.tashayyu....iraah/chapter-4), assuming all of these are sahih/hasan/muwaththaq:
By a quick glance, why can't we say hadith no.4 is the reconciliation of hadith no. 2 & no.5, i.e.
- Nafilah: no problem in reciting in full or partial
- Faridha: Recite the surah in partial is makruh

I think it's very clear that reciting part of a surah is allowed and you've shown some of the thinking behind it. The hadith say it's just makrooh (which the scholars mean hated as in/because it is less thawaab than a full one). The taqiyya argument doesn't make sense (in addition to just kiraaha hadith), and the interpreting them always to be nafilah doesn't work because the hadith quoted by Islamic Salvation shows the Imam [as] did it in jamaa`ah - can't be a nafilah.

Quote

Hadith no. 4 clearly states that it's makruh, then if the hadith you quoted is true, then it means that the Imam DID makruh act?
I don't understand, what the Imam was trying to teach here?

Teach them that reciting part of a surah is permissible perhaps.

[rotten_coconut]

Dar, on 19 May 2012 - 11:23 PM, said:

Teach them that reciting part of a surah is permissible perhaps.

But then why hadith no.4 said that it's disliked (makruh) instead of permissible?
I still can't seem to understand how to reconcile hadith no.4 vs hadith quoted by Islamic Salvation if we want to avoid the conclusion that the Imam did a makruh act.

[Dar'ul_Islam]

rotten_coconut, on 20 May 2012 - 09:37 AM, said:

But then why hadith no.4 said that it's disliked (makruh) instead of permissible?
I still can't seem to understand how to reconcile hadith no.4 vs hadith quoted by Islamic Salvation if we want to avoid the conclusion that the Imam did a makruh act.

Perhaps because the reason it was done was to educate and teach the deen and would not be considered thus at that moment for that reason. This would also mean that makrooh and mustahabb things are not so black and white. Which I tend to lean towards. It is also not inconceivable that the Ma`sumeen [as] did something makrooh. Allahu`aalim.

في امان الله

[Dar'ul_Islam]

I just go a fatwa from Sayed Rohani [ha] about some questions. Unforuntately, I can't read all of, would anyone mind translating for us all to benefit?




Ýí ÇãÇä Çááå

[La fata illa Ali]

Dar, on 20 May 2012 - 11:41 AM, said:

Perhaps because the reason it was done was to educate and teach the deen and would not be considered thus at that moment for that reason. This would also mean that makrooh and mustahabb things are not so black and white. Which I tend to lean towards. It is also not inconceivable that the Ma`sumeen [as] did something makrooh. Allahu`aalim.

في امان الله

Why would u want to do a makrooh act while in prayer???

Nader Zaveri has an excellent blog post regarding the preferred Surahs to be read in the prayer, the indication being that the whole surah should be recited.

http://www.revivinga...alat-namaz.html

Here are two Authentic aHaadeeth showing us what the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) used to recite in his Salaah. I have made a blog post titled “Excellence of Memorizing the Qur’aan”, so if we do not have these Surahs memorized, inshaa’Allaah we can try to memorize them.

مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ الْحَسَنِ بِإِسْنَادِهِ عَنْ أَحْمَدَ بْنِ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ عِيسَى عَنِ الْحَسَنِ بْنِ مَحْبُوبٍ عَنْ أَبَانٍ عَنْ عِيسَى بْنِ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ الْقُمِّيِّ عَنْ أَبِي عَبْدِ اللَّهِ ع قَالَ كَانَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ ص يُصَلِّي الْغَدَاةَ بِعَمَّ يَتَسَاءَلُونَ- وَ هَلْ أَتَاكَ حَدِيثُ الْغَاشِيَةِ- وَ لَا أُقْسِمُ بِيَوْمِ الْقِيَامَةِ وَ شِبْهِهَا وَ كَانَ يُصَلِّي الظُّهْرَ بِسَبِّحِ اسْمَ- وَ الشَّمْسِ وَ ضُحَاهَا وَ هَلْ أَتَاكَ حَدِيثُ الْغَاشِيَةِ- وَ شِبْهِهَا وَ كَانَ يُصَلِّي الْمَغْرِبَ بِقُلْ هُوَ اللَّهُ أَحَدٌ- وَ إِذَا جَاءَ نَصْرُ اللَّهِ وَ الْفَتْحُ وَ إِذَا زُلْزِلَتْ- وَ كَانَ يُصَلِّي الْعِشَاءَ الْآخِرَةَ بِنَحْوِ مَا يُصَلِّي فِي الظُّهْرِ وَ الْعَصْرَ بِنَحْوٍ مِنَ الْمَغْرِبِ

From `Eesa bin `Abd Allaah Al-Qummee from Abee `Abd Allaah (عليه السلام) said: “The Messenger of Allaah (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) used to pray Al-Ghadaa’ (Al-Fajr) with `Amma Yatasaa’aloon (Surah Al-Naba’ – No. 78), Hal Ataaka Hadeeth Al-Ghaashiyah (Surah Al-Ghaashiyah – No. 88), Laa Uqsimu bi-yamil qiyaamah (Surah Al-Qiyaamah – No. 75) and similar ones (that are like those surahs). And he (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) used to pray Al-Dhuhr with SabbiHisma (Surah Al-`Ala – No. 87), wa Al-Shams wa Al-DuHaahaa (No. 91), Hal Ataaka Hadeeth Al-Ghaashiyah (Surah Al-Ghaashiyah – No. 88) and similar ones (that are like those surahs). And he (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) used to pray Al-Maghrib with Qul Huwa Allaahu aHad (Surah Al-IkhlaaS – No. 112), Idhaa Jaa’a NaSrullaahi wa al-fatH (Surah Al-NaSr – No. 110), Idhaa Zulzilat (Surah Zilzalah – No. 99). And he (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) used to pray the final Al-`Ishaa’ with the same of what he recited in Al-Dhuhr, and (he used to pray) Al-`aSr with the same (surahs he recited in) Al-Maghrib.”
Source:
1. Al-Toosi, Tahdheeb Al-aHkaam, vol. 2, pg. 95 – 96, hadeeth # 123
Grading:
1.    Al-Majlisi said this hadeeth is Muwaththaq Kal-SaHeeH (Reliable like Authentic)
à Milaadh Al-Akhyaar, vol. 3, pg. 580
2.    MuHsin Al-Hakeem said this hadeeth is Hasan or SaHeeH (Good or Authentic)
à Mustamsak Al-`Urwah Al-Wuthqa, vol. 6, pg. 278
3. Al-Majlisi I (Al-Majlisi’s father) said this hadeeth is Muwaththaq Kal-SaHeeH (Reliable like Authentic)
à RawDah Al-Muttaqeen, vol. 2, pg. 292
4. Al-Sabzawaaree said this hadeeth is SaHeeH (Authentic)
à Dakheerah Al-Ma`aad, vol. 2, pg. 278
5. Yoosuf Al-BaHraanee said this hadeeth is SaHeeH (Authentic)
à Hadaa’iq Al-NaaDirah, vol. 8, pg. 178

وَ عَنْهُ عَنْ عَلِيِّ بْنِ الْحَكَمِ عَنْ أَبِي أَيُّوبَ الْخَرَّازِ عَنْ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ مُسْلِمٍ فِي حَدِيثٍ قَالَ قُلْتُ لِأَبِي عَبْدِ اللَّهِ ع أَيُّ السُّوَرِ تُقْرَأُ فِي الصَّلَوَاتِ قَالَ أَمَّا الظُّهْرُ وَ الْعِشَاءُ الْآخِرَةُ تُقْرَأُ فِيهِمَا سَوَاءً وَ الْعَصْرُ وَ الْمَغْرِبُ سَوَاءً وَ أَمَّا الْغَدَاةُ فَأَطْوَلُ وَ أَمَّا الظُّهْرُ وَ الْعِشَاءُ الْآخِرَةُ فَسَبِّحِ اسْمَ رَبِّكَ الْأَعْلَى- وَ الشَّمْسِ وَ ضُحَاهَا وَ نَحْوُهَا- وَ أَمَّا الْعَصْرُ وَ الْمَغْرِبُ فَإِذَا جَاءَ نَصْرُ اللَّهِ- وَ أَلْهَاكُمُ التَّكَاثُرُ وَ نَحْوُهَا- وَ أَمَّا الْغَدَاةُ فَعَمَّ يَتَسَاءَلُونَ- وَ هَلْ أَتَاكَ حَدِيثُ الْغَاشِيَةِ- وَ لَا أُقْسِمُ بِيَوْمِ الْقِيَامَةِ- وَ هَلْ أَتَى عَلَى الْإِنْسَانِ حِينٌ مِنَ الدَّهْرِ

From Muhammad bin Muslim said, I said to Abee `Abd Allaah (عليه السلام) which suwar (pl. surah) do you recite in prayers? He (عليه السلام) said: As for Al-Dhuhr and the final Al-`Ishaa’ you recite in it same (type of surahs), and Al-`aSr and Al-Maghrib the same (type of surahs), and as for Al-Ghadaa’ (Al-Fajr) it is the longest. As for Al-Dhuhr and the final Al-`Ishaa’ (recite) SabbiHisma (Surah Al-`Ala – No. 87), wa Al-Shams wa Al-DuHaahaa (No. 91) and its like. And as for Al-`aSr and Al-Maghrib (recite) Idhaa Jaa’a NaSrullaahi wa al-fatH (Surah Al-NaSr – No. 110), Al-Haakum Al-Takaathur (Surah Al-Takaathur – No. 102) and its like. And as for Al-Ghadaa’ (Al-Fajr) (recite) `Amma Yatasaa’aloon (Surah Al-Naba’ – No. 78), Hal Ataaka Hadeeth Al-Ghaashiyah (Surah Al-Ghaashiyah – No. 88), Laa Uqsimu bi-yamil qiyaamah (Surah Al-Qiyaamah – No. 75), Hal Ata `ala al-insaan Heen min al-dahr (Surah al-Insaan – No. 76).”
Source:
1. Al-Toosi, Tahdheeb Al-aHkaam, vol. 2, pg. 95, hadeeth # 122
Grading:
1.    Al-Majlisi said this hadeeth is SaHeeH (Authentic)
à Milaadh Al-Akhyaar, vol. 3, pg. 580
2.    MuHsin Al-Hakeem said this hadeeth is SaHeeH (Authentic)
à Mustamsak Al-`Urwah Al-Wuthqa, vol. 6, pg. 278
3. Shaheed Al-Thaanee said this hadeeth is SaHeeH (Authentic)
à RawDah Al-Jinaan, vol. 2, pg. 712
4. Al-Majlisi I (Al-Majlisi’s father) said this hadeeth is SaHeeH (Authentic)
à RawDah Al-Muttaqeen, vol. 2, pg. 292
5. Al-Sabzawaaree said this hadeeth is SaHeeH (Authentic)
à Dakheerah Al-Ma`aad, vol. 2, pg. 278
6. Yoosuf Al-BaHraanee said this hadeeth is SaHeeH (Authentic)
à Hadaa’iq Al-NaaDirah, vol. 8, pg. 178
7. Aboo Al-Qaasim Al-Qummee said this hadeeth is SaHeeH (Authentic)
à Ghanaa’im Al-Ayyaam, vol. 2, pg. 548
8. Al-Najafee said this hadeeth is SaHeeH (Authentic)
à Jawaahir Al-Kalaaam, vol. 9, pg. 401




I know this doesnt explicitly state that the whole surah must be read but as u can see it doesnt say that 'parts of fussilat' and so on and so forth. These surahs mentioned are relatively short and even surahs like qiyama and insaan arent that bad to recite the whole surah. Furthemore i think u had made a comment regarding reciting more madani (generally longer) surahs and whats interesting is that from that list only Insaan, Zilzaal, Nasr are madani the longest being Insaan (31 ayats) .


What I am saying is:

1) the recomended surahs are relatively short anyways, so why not recite the whole thing

2) even the Prophet was choosing makki surahs over madani in prayer

3) the madani one's he chose are pretty short

4) im sure u would agree that the hadith gives the hint that the whole surah was recited

5) the longest surahs are saved for salatul fajr and even then 40 ayats for qiyamah but its not even that long.



If you stick with the hadith u can complete the most favoured acts.




EDIT:


here is more advice: http://www.tashayyu....raah/chapter-16

16 – Chapter on the emphasis of the desirability of reciting al-Jahd (sura al-Kafirun, 109) then at-Tawhid (sura al-Ikhlas, 112) in the two rak`at of fajr and the permissibility of reciting whichever two sura one wants

[ 7360 ] 1 ـ محمّد بن الحسن باسناده عن الحسين بن سعيد ، عن النضر ، عن ابن سنان ، عن أبي عبد الله ( عليه السلام ) قال : اقرأ في ركعتي الفجر بأيّ سورتين أحببت ، وقال : أمّا أنا فاُحبّ أن أقرأ فيهما بـ ( قل هو الله أحد ) ، و( قل يا أيها الكافرون ).

1 – Muhammad b. al-Hasan by his isnad from al-Husayn b. Sa`id from an-Nadr from Ibn Sinan from Abu `Abdillah عليه السلام.  He said: Recite in the two rak`at of fajr whichever two sura you like.  And he said: As to me, I love to recite “Qul huwAllaahu aHad” and “Qul yaa ayyuha ‘l-kafiroon” in them.

[ 7361 ] 2 ـ وعنه ، عن ابن مسكان ، عن يعقوب بن سالم البزّار قال : قال أبو عبد الله ( عليه السلام ) : صلّهما بعد الفجر واقرأ فيهما في الاُولى قل يا أيّها الكافرون وفي الثانية قل هو الله أحد.

2 – And from him from Ibn Muskan from Ya`qub b. Salim al-Bazzar.  He said: Abu `Abdillah عليه السلام said: Pray them after the dawn (al-fajr) and in them recite in the first “Qul yaa ayyuha ‘l-kafiroon” and in the second “Qul huwAllaahu aHad”.



http://www.tashayyu....raah/chapter-23
Desirability of reciting al-Qadr and at-Tawheed until daybreak in the fara'id

23 ـ باب استحباب القراءة في الفرائض بالقدر والتوحيد حتّىالفجر واختيارهما على غيرهما ، وكراهة تركهما ، والتخيير فيترتيبهما

23 – Chapter on the desirability of the qira’ah of (the suras) al Qadr and al Tauheed until daybreak (al-fajr) in the obligatory prayers and choosing them over others besides them, and the dislike of leaving them off, and the preference in their order

[ 7395 ] 1 ـ محمّد بن يعقوب ، عن علي بن محمّد ، عن سهل بن زياد ، عن أحمد بن عبدوس ، عن محمد بن زاديه (1) ، عن أبي علي ابن راشد قال : قلت لأبي الحسن ( عليه السلام ) : جعلت فداك إنّك كتبت إلى محمّد بن الفرج تعلمه أن أفضل ما يقرأ في الفرائض ( إنّا أنزلناه ) و( قل هو الله أحد ) ، وإن صدري ليضيق بقراءتهما في الفجر ، فقال ( عليه السلام ) : لا يضيقنّ صدرك بهما فإنّ الفضل والله فيهما.
ورواه الشيخ باسناده عن سهل بن زياد ، عن محمّد بن عبدوس ، عن محمّد بن زادية (2) ، عن ابن راشد ، مثله (3).

1 – Muhammad b. Ya`qub (in al Kafi)from `Ali b. Muhammad from Sahl b. Ziyad from Ahmad b. `Abdoos from Muhammad b. Zadiyah (in the Masdar: زاوية – Zawiyah and in the copy: بادية – Badiyah, in the margin of the manuscript) from Abu `Ali b. Raashid. He said: I said to Abu ‘l Hasan : May I be sacrificed for you! Verily you wrote to Muhammad b. al Faraj teaching him that the best of what is recited in the fard prayers is Inna Anzalnah and Qul Huwa Allahu Ahad. But my chest straitens due to their qira’ah at daybreak. So he said: Your chest certainly does not straiten due to them, for verily, by Allah, in them is grace/ excellence.
And the Shaykh (in al Tahdheeb) narrated it with his chains from Sahl b. Ziyad from Muhammad b. `Abdoos from Muhammad b. Zadiyah (in al Tahdheeb: زادبة – Zadibah, in the margin of the manuscript, but in the printed/typed manuscript: زادويه – Zadawiyyah) from ibn Raashid, similar to it.

[ 7396 ] 2 ـ وقد تقدّم في كيفيّة الصلاة حديث عمر بن اُذينة وغيره ، عن أبي عبد الله ( عليه السلام ) انّ الله أوحى إلى نبيّه ( صلّى الله عليه وآله ) ليلة الإسراء في الركعة الاُولى أن اقرأ ( قل هو الله أحد ) فإنّها نسبتي ونعتي ، ثمّ أوحى إليه في الثانية بعد ما قرأ الحمد : أن اقرأ ( إنا أنزلناه في ليلة القدر ) فإنّها نسبتك ونسبة أهل بيتك إلى يوم القيامة.

2 – And the hadith of `Umar b. Udhaynah and others has preceded in the Method of Prayer (hadith #10 in Chapter of Acts of Prayer) from Abu `Abdillah : Verily Allah revealed to His Prophet (sawa) on the night of the Ascension that he recite Qul Huwa Allahu Ahad in the first unit, “for it is My ascription and My characterisation”. Then He revealed to him in the second (unit) after what he had recited of al Hamd that he recite Inna Anzalnahu fi laylat al Qadr, “for it is your ascription and the ascription of your Ahl al Bayt till the Day of Resurrection.

[ 7397 ] 3 ـ محمّد بن علي بن الحسين قال : حكى من صحب الرضا ( عليه السلام ) إلى خراسان أنّه كان يقرأ في الصلوات في اليوم والليلة في الركعة الاُولى الحمد و( إنّا أنزلناه ) ، وفي الثانية الحمد و( قل هو الله أحد ) ، الحديث.
وفي ( عيون الأخبار ) باسناد تقدّم عن رجاء بن أبي الضحّاك ، عن الرضا ( عليه السلام ) ، مثله (1).

3 – Muhammad b. al Husain (in al Faqih)said: One of the companions of al Rida towards Khurasan, related that he used to recite al Hamd and Inna Anzalnah in the prayers of the day and night in the first unit and al Hamd and Qul Huwa Allahu Ahad in the second [al-hadith].
And in `Uyoon al Akhbar with the foregone chains from Rajaa’ b. Abi ‘l Dahhaak from al Rida , similar to it (in hadith #8 of Chapter 20, and a part of it in various traditions cited in these chapters).

[ 7398 ] 4 ـ وفي ( ثواب الأعمال ) عن أبيه ، عن أحمد بن إدريس ، عن محمّد بن أحمد ، عن محمّد بن حسان ، عن إسماعيل بن مهران ، عن الحسن ابن علي ، عن أبيه ، عن الحسين بن أبي العلاء ، عن أبي عبد الله ( عليه السلام ) قال : من قرأ ( إنّا أنزلناه ) في فريضة من الفرائض نادى مناد : يا عبد الله ، قد غفر الله لك ما مضى فاستأنف العمل.

4 – And in Thawab al A`maal from his father from Ahmad b. Idris from Muhammad b. Hassaan from Isma`il b. Mihran from al Hasan b. `Ali from his father from al Husain b. Abi ‘l `Alaa’ from Abu `Abdillah , who said: Whoever recites Inna Anzalnah in any one of the obligatory prayers, a caller calls out: O slave of Allah! Indeed Allah has forgiven you what has passed; so continue with the act (viz. of reciting this surah).

[ 7399 ] 5 ـ أحمد بن علي بن أبي طالب الطبرسي في ( الاحتجاج ) عن صاحب الزمان ( عليه السلام ) أنّه كتب إلى محمّد بن عبد الله بن جعفر الحميري في جواب مسائله حيث سأله عمّا روي في ثواب القرآن في الفرائض وغيرها أن العالم ( عليه السلام ) قال : عجبا لمن لم يقرأ في صلاته ( إنّا أنزلناه في ليلة القدر ) ، كيف تُقبل صلاته ، وروي ما زكت صلاة لم يقرأ فيها ( قل هو الله أحد ) ، وروي أن من قرأ في فرائضه الهمزة اعطي من الثواب قدر الدنيا ، فهل يجوز أن يقرأ الهمزة ويدع هذه السور التي ذكرناها مع ما قد روي أنّه لا تقبل صلاة ولا تزكو إلاّ بهما ؟ التوقيع : الثواب في السور على ما قد روي ، وإذا ترك سورة ممّا فيها الثواب وقرأ ( قل هوالله أحد ) و ( إنّا أنزلناه ) لفضلهما (1) أعطي ثواب ما قرأ وثواب السور التي ترك ، ويجوز أن يقرأ غير هاتين السورتين وتكون صلاته تامّة ولكنّه يكون قد ترك الأفضل.
ورواه الشيخ (2) في ( كتاب الغيبة ) باسناده الآتي (3).
أقول : ويأتي ما يدلّ على ذلك (4) ، ويأتي ما ظاهره المنافاة (5) وهو محمول على التخيير والجواز.

5 – Ahmad b. `Ali b. Abi Talib al Tabarsi in al Ihtijaj from Sahib al Zaman that he wrote to Muhammad b. `Abdullah b. Ja`far al Himyari in response to his problems where he asked about the narration in Thawab al Qur’an in the faraa’id (obligatory prayers) etcetera where the learned one said: Strange is it that one does not recite Inna Anzalnahu fi laylat al Qadr in his prayer! How will his prayer be accepted?! And it has been narrated that one who does not recite Qul Huwa Allahu Ahad in it, his prayer is not purified. And it has been narrated that one who recites al Humazah in his faraa’id, he is granted the measure of this world as a reward. So how is it permissible to recite al Humazah and leave these chapters which we have mentioned when it has been narrated that the prayer is neither accepted nor purified save by these two?? In the tauqee` (epistle) (he wrote): The reward of the suwar (pl. of surah, chapters) is as per what has been narrated. And when he leaves the chapter in which is reward and recites Qul Huwa Allahu Ahad and Inna Anzalnah for their merit (in the Masdar: for its merit), he is granted the reward of what he recited and also the reward of what he left. And it is permissible for him to recite besides these two chapters and his prayer would be complete but he would indeed have relinquished the best.
And the Shaykh (al Tusi) narrated it in Kitab al Ghaybah with his chains to come (in the second benefit under ‘Conclusion’, #47).
I say: And what demonstrates that is to come (hadith #10 from Acts of Prayer, and in general in other chapters) and what is apparently contradictory to that shall also come (Chapter 49 of these chapters) and it is subject to choice and permissibility (i.e. of recitation of the chapters).

Edited by La fata illa Ali, 23 May 2012 - 05:36 PM.

[Dar'ul_Islam]

La fata illa Ali, on 23 May 2012 - 05:26 PM, said:

Why would u want to do a makrooh act while in prayer???

According to Sayed Rohani [ha] "makrooh" here may mean just less thawaab, not it is something Allah (swt) "hates" - If I remember correctly. Also, the benefit of reciting part of surah is large and helps with memorizing. Those surahs you've posted that are mustahabb to read may take a while to learn and reciting them in Salaah as you learn them helps drill them into your memory. I don't think the ahkaam for makrooh and mustahabb are absolutes and can vary depending on a context and situation - benefit and harm.

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I know this doesnt explicitly state that the whole surah must be read but as u can see it doesnt say that 'parts of fussilat' and so on and so forth. These surahs mentioned are relatively short and even surahs like qiyama and insaan arent that bad to recite the whole surah. Furthemore i think u had made a comment regarding reciting more madani (generally longer) surahs and whats interesting is that from that list only Insaan and Zilzaal are madani the longest being Insaan (31 ayats) .

And I'm not saying reciting a whole surah is not as good or worse, it is probably better as a general rule/principle. But most people only know like 3 surahs from the end of the Qur'an and they never recite anything else, especially in jamaa`ah prayers. Memorizing Qur'an and reciting those surahs as you learn them really help them stick. Also, you hear all different parts of the Qur'an this way - the whole of the message or most of it, rather than the 5% we hear almost 100% of the time.

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What I am saying is:

1) the recomended surahs are relatively short anyways, so why not recite the whole thing

2) even the Prophet was choosing makki surahs over madani in prayer

3) the madani one's he chose are pretty short

4) im sure u would agree that the hadith gives the hint that the whole surah was recited

5) the longest surahs are saved for salatul fajr and even then 40 ayats for qiyamah but its not even that long.

Again, not against reciting whole Suras.... but why abide by this as wajib when it isn't? Yes recite them, but the Imams [as] also recited parts of Surahs - even for just the purpose of teaching. We have hadith where they just recite Ayat al-Kursi after Fatihah.

Also some of the longer surahs are good to split up between the two raka`ah so when you are doing it in jamaa`ah so it won't be too long.

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If you stick with the hadith u can complete the most favoured acts.

The "makrooh" things, if it is indeed makrooh, can be used as a conduit for a good end (like hifz) and hence may not be makrooh in that use.
Anyway, if you don't want to recite part of a surah, then don't.

Ýí ÇãÇä Çááå

[La fata illa Ali]

I think ur reasoning that it helps memorise is somewhat silly as its really not the time and place to 'practise' ur hifz rather do the best deeds. U can practise ur hifz in other times.

I am suggesting the best acts to maximize ur thawab brother but u keep insisting for less....again ur choice.

[Dar'ul_Islam]

La fata illa Ali, on 23 May 2012 - 05:59 PM, said:

I think ur reasoning that it helps memorise is somewhat silly as its really not the time and place to 'practise' ur hifz rather do the best deeds. U can practise ur hifz in other times.

I am suggesting the best acts to maximize ur thawab brother but u keep insisting for less....again ur choice.

It is not silly, you are thinking too simplistically and not seeing things in the larger picture. Reciting in salaah is when you really know it and I feel and understand that first hand. Also, an individual may feel most emotional and really feel the Qur'an on certain ayaat that are not in the shorter ones, so that may be better for them and help them concentrate.

It is my choice and I will act upon it, and my salaah is still correct, I enjoy my salaah much more than always reciting Ikhlaas and Qadr wa ghayrahuma.

في امان الله