128 replies to this topic

[anwark]

is it permissible to say "Ya Ali Madad "?  if yes in what occasions ?

[Aly ReZa]

http://www.shiachat....6-ya-ali-madad/

http://www.shiachat....8-ya-ali-madad/

http://www.shiachat....e-ya-ali-madad/

http://www.shiachat....1-ya-ali-madad/

http://www.shiachat....1-ya-ali-madad/

http://www.shiachat....g-ya-ali-madad/

http://www.shiachat....r-ya-ali-madad/

http://www.shiachat....y-ya-ali-madad/

http://www.shiachat....4-ya-ali-madad/

http://www.shiachat....adad-not-shirk/

http://www.shiachat....-ali-madad-etc/

HAVE A LONG SEARCH

[Kaniz e Zahra]

 anwark, on 10 May 2012 - 06:32 AM, said:

is it permissible to say "Ya Ali Madad "?  if yes in what occasions ?

ofcourse it is,have u seen Moses(as)asked Allah to strengthen His back through Aaron(as),so it clearly means Allah help His creations through His Loved ones,when a Prophet can ask for such a help,why can't we?U can seek it on all occasions keeping in mind that Imam Ali(as)isn't working independently of Allah,He intercede to Allah on our behalf,then Allah issues command which He can execute by power given to Him by Allah,and obviously They listen to us,don't u see countless miracles taking place at Shrines of Infallibles(as),including healing of blind,dumb,deaf,and paralyzed.And these miracles are recorded there as well by adminstration.So,it's weakness of Faith to suspect their powers.

[Fazal Ur Rehman]

Do we have to keep in mind that we are interceding and the real bestower is Allah Almighty or we can say directly say 'ya Ali madad' like asking from Imam Ali (Karam Ullah Wajhu)?
i am new here and want to explore shiaism... kindly help me in gaining understanding...

[soloman]

 Kaniz e Zahra, on 10 May 2012 - 08:01 AM, said:

,don't u see countless miracles taking place at Shrines of Infallibles(as),including healing of blind,dumb,deaf,and paralyzed.And these miracles are recorded there as well by adminstration.So,it's weakness of Faith to suspect their powers.

To what do you contribute the same type of miracles happening at shrines of Christian and Hindu shrines?

[Kaniz e Zahra]

 Fazal Ur Rehman, on 10 May 2012 - 10:48 AM, said:

Do we have to keep in mind that we are interceding and the real bestower is Allah Almighty or we can say directly say 'ya Ali madad' like asking from Imam Ali (Karam Ullah Wajhu)?
i am new here and want to explore shiaism... kindly help me in gaining understanding...

Ya Ali(as)is obviously a direct call,but keep this in mind,He is not independent of Allah,real Bestower is He,who grants powers to Him to act as His vicegerent,and successor,and servant to Mohammad(saww)

 soloman, on 10 May 2012 - 12:34 PM, said:

To what do you contribute the same type of miracles happening at shrines of Christian and Hindu shrines?

Which hindu temples??kindly show us one,If they propogate something has happened then it doesn't mean it did.They r hindus,now atleast authorities in Iran,Iraq,Syria don't lie,because they can't.They r not hindu temples,first of all, these places r universal,and Shias of every region experience those things.They r properly recorded with details of individuals,and if u talk abt Christians,yes they can be true,they have intercessors in form of A PROPHET(AS)and His Mother,still we don't hear much impossible,and frequent things as there.

Edited by Kaniz e Zahra, 10 May 2012 - 12:48 PM.

[Aly ReZa]

A new sis is blasting all the threads

Keep it up sis

[Haydar Husayn]

I'd advise against it:

http://www.shiachat....this-not-shirk/
http://www.shiachat....h-in-the-quran/
http://www.shiachat....nahjul-balagha/

[Aly ReZa]

its all upto you OP search on this site you wil get many threads on this
Then research and have a freewil choice

[Kaniz e Zahra]

instead of watching threads,read Quran,with both Shia/Sunni Tafaseer,and reach your own conclusion.Moreover.its also permissible by most reverred Shia ulema in Qom,or Najaf.But don't even depend on them,make use of your intelligence,here u'll get really confused.

[Haydar Husayn]

I agree, read the Qur'an, and see what it says about calling on other than Allah (swt):
http://www.shiachat....h-in-the-quran/

[Kaniz e Zahra]

Yes read the Quran,it has lot to say,which can't be sum up in a thread actually,because Quran isn't something where fallibles can pass opinions,so also read Tafaseer of Masoomeen(as),we are just ordinary peoples.

[Aly ReZa]

OP here some anti azadari pepl will and are trying to misguide you
Have a freewill choice and remember one thing nobody is gonna come in to your grave to answer your deeds so beware of the misguider and covered enemies of Shiasm

[Haydar Husayn]

 Kaniz e Zahra, on 10 May 2012 - 01:09 PM, said:

Yes read the Quran,it has lot to say,which can't be sum up in a thread actually,because Quran isn't something where fallibles can pass opinions,so also read Tafaseer of Masoomeen(as),we are just ordinary peoples.

Yes, for example read what Imam Ali himself has to say about all this:

http://www.shiachat....nahjul-balagha/

[Kaniz e Zahra]

 Haydar Husayn, on 10 May 2012 - 01:41 PM, said:

Yes, for example read what Imam Ali himself has to say about all this:

http://www.shiachat....nahjul-balagha/

Imam Ali(as)has also defined his POWERS in another Sermon,check it out directly from Nehj ul Balagha,and read it with Sharah written by ulema,not shiachat scholars.

Edited by Kaniz e Zahra, 10 May 2012 - 02:06 PM.

[Haydar Husayn]

 Kaniz e Zahra, on 10 May 2012 - 02:05 PM, said:

Imam Ali(as)has also defined his POWERS in another Sermon,check it out directly from Nehj ul Balagha,and read it with Sharah written by ulema,not shiachat scholars.

What difference does it make what his 'powers' are? We are discussing whether or not it is allowed to call on him for help. And I may be wrong, but I don't remember Imam Ali ever saying he had the power to hear everyone from anywhere.

Also, if you are so opposed to people listening to what others on Shiachat have to say, then why are you posting? Are you a scholar?

[Logic]

 Haydar Husayn, on 10 May 2012 - 02:23 PM, said:

Also, if you are so opposed to people listening to what others on Shiachat have to say, then why are you posting? Are you a scholar?

The scholars have no problems with people saying Ya Ali Madad...As long as you understand that Ali is the medium not the end.

[Vigilare]

 Logic, on 10 May 2012 - 02:26 PM, said:

The scholars have no problems with people saying Ya Ali Madad...As long as you understand that Ali is the medium not the end.

Scholars are fallible and can make mistakes.  Nothing new about scholars saying something that perhaps might not be...valid.

[Kaniz e Zahra]

 Haydar Husayn, on 10 May 2012 - 02:23 PM, said:

What difference does it make what his 'powers' are? We are discussing whether or not it is allowed to call on him for help. And I may be wrong, but I don't remember Imam Ali ever saying he had the power to hear everyone from anywhere.

Also, if you are so opposed to people listening to what others on Shiachat have to say, then why are you posting? Are you a scholar?

no m not,thats why i didn't ask to stick to anyone but to Haqq..Did He need to tell that?when Solomon heard the discussion between ants,he heard it even He was far above..It's in Quran as well,so wt do u think Imam Ali(as)is nauzbillah inferior than him?I didn't prevent him from listening,but from following,and i didn't praise myself even,that oh,m really knowledgeable y don't u listen to me

 Vigilare, on 10 May 2012 - 02:57 PM, said:

Scholars are fallible and can make mistakes.  Nothing new about scholars saying something that perhaps might not be...valid.

Even infallibles,and Allah has said a lot about it,and even u ppl r getting these ideas from scholars,don't we know wts being preached in west.so are they not fallibles?

Edited by Kaniz e Zahra, 10 May 2012 - 03:08 PM.

[Vigilare]

 Kaniz e Zahra, on 10 May 2012 - 03:01 PM, said:

no m not,thats why i didn't ask to stick to anyone but to Haqq..Did He need to tell that?when Solomon heard the discussion between ants,he heard it even He was far above..It's in Quran as well,so wt do u think Imam Ali(as)is nauzbillah inferior than him?I didn't prevent him from listening,but from following,and i didn't praise myself even,that oh,m really knowledgeable y don't u listen to me

Even infallibles,and Allah has said a lot about it,and even u ppl r getting these ideas from scholars,don't we know wts being preached in west.so are they not fallibles?

Salaam,

Sorry I don't understand your point.

What I am saying though is that shias scholars [not all] may be wrong about saying Ya Ali Madad.  I've asked this before - do we have any evidence that the sahaba of any of the Imams ever said this after the Imams had left this world? Did any of the 'classical' scholars of shiaism mention this and authenticate any hadiths regarding this?

[Haydar Husayn]

 Kaniz e Zahra, on 10 May 2012 - 03:01 PM, said:

no m not,thats why i didn't ask to stick to anyone but to Haqq..Did He need to tell that?when Solomon heard the discussion between ants,he heard it even He was far above..

You really think this is even close to the same thing? Honestly?

Quote

It's in Quran as well,so wt do u think Imam Ali(as)is nauzbillah inferior than him?

Lol. 'Nauzbillah'? The Prophet Sulayman isn't some nobody you know. I don't know if he's superior to Imam Ali , but I certainly don't think it's a thought we need to be seeking refuge from.

Edited by Haydar Husayn, 10 May 2012 - 03:13 PM.

[Kaniz e Zahra]

 Vigilare, on 10 May 2012 - 03:12 PM, said:

Salaam,

Sorry I don't understand your point.

What I am saying though is that shias scholars [not all] may be wrong about saying Ya Ali Madad.  I've asked this before - do we have any evidence that the sahaba of any of the Imams ever said this after the Imams had left this world? Did any of the 'classical' scholars of shiaism mention this and authenticate any hadiths regarding this?

Wa/salam,well a well known alim here mentions that it was initiated by Son of Malik e Ashtar,during war against yazeedis..moreover,when concept of help is proven,then automatically,calling out to them is too.There is one narration in lifetime of Imam Naqi(as)when His bitterest enemy mutawwakil got ailed to the dying point,his mother kept a mannat of Imam Naqi(as),which she send him too,nd He didn't object it,u can find this incident by probing into His life details.And there r various incidents saved about IMAM ALI(as)where He miraculously helped individuals.

 Haydar Husayn, on 10 May 2012 - 03:13 PM, said:

You really think this is even close to the same thing? Honestly?



Lol. 'Nauzbillah'? The Prophet Sulayman isn't some nobody you know. I don't know if he's superior to Imam Ali , but I certainly don't think it's a thought we need to be seeking refuge from.

Yes,it's such thought to seek refuge from,Imam Ali(as)was born in ka'aba even sunnis admit,u just can't eliminate the signs of this incident,was Jesus's mother allowed to stay inside Mosque at the time of delivery..yes i consider it near the same thing,how can u say,it's not,just bcoz u don't believe it.

Edited by Kaniz e Zahra, 10 May 2012 - 04:04 PM.

[Logic]

 Vigilare, on 10 May 2012 - 02:57 PM, said:

Scholars are fallible and can make mistakes.  Nothing new about scholars saying something that perhaps might not be...valid.

Thats an original thought!

Majority of the people that have actually studied Islam enough to derive its usool believe this slogan to be halal compared to a few shiachatters who might have read a few books.

[Haydar Husayn]

 Logic, on 10 May 2012 - 04:53 PM, said:

Thats an original thought!

Majority of the people that have actually studied Islam enough to derive its usool believe this slogan to be halal compared to a few shiachatters who might have read a few books.

The fact that the scholars say it's halal isn't going to do anyone any good on Judgement Day if it turns out it wasn't.

[Vigilare]

 Logic, on 10 May 2012 - 04:53 PM, said:

Thats an original thought!

Majority of the people that have actually studied Islam enough to derive its usool believe this slogan to be halal compared to a few shiachatters who might have read a few books.

Key word there is slogan.  Big difference in using Ya Ali Madad as a slogan and using it as a form of dua. I'm sure you'll know the difference.

I can't get a scan but I do know that Dr Muhammad As-Salabees' book on Abu Bakr stated that during the riddha wars Khalid bin Walid's army marched with the slogan 'Ya Muhammad'.....given that his books have the wahabbi stamp of approval, there must be something of a difference between a slogan and dua...

Also, your logic is impeccable. Since sunni scholars have also studied Islam they must also be right in their views as well.....

Edited by Vigilare, 10 May 2012 - 05:09 PM.