25 replies to this topic

[Suomynona]

"Nine tenths of religion is taqiyyah (dissimulation), hence one who does not dissimulate has no religion." (Al-Kafi vol.9 p.110)

I'm sure you've all heard this quote but I'm not silly enough to just believe whatever the salafis tell me so here I am asking you the Shia what does this mean? What is the context, if you can find that out? Why was it said?

[Muntaqim Force]

Salam and welcome to this forum.

Before answering to you, one brotherly advice as you are new memeber here. Whenever we are discussing any topic especially something in favor of it or against it, we should know the meaning of the topic under discussion first. For example someone says Mercedes Benz is a very ugly car and the other person who havent ever driven it or seen it says yes yes it is very ugly then such discussions have no productive outcomes. Similarly if the narration is saying nine tenth of religion is taqiyyah and one does not know what taqiyyah is then there is no productive outcome from discussion. Salafis/wahabis and their kind come under the category who have never seen mercedes benz and still poke their noses in commenting about it. I hope you are not under the same category. But still for you help i am giving you one link, read about it in detail and then we will inshAllah speak about the above narration in details.

JazakAllah

http://www.answering...ah/en/index.php  ( this article especially deals with salafis allegations).

In this link , if you cannot read it all there is paragraph which deals with your query. I am pasting it here for you but i still suggest go through the whole article.

"Nine tenths of religion is Taqiyyah (dissimulation), hence one who does not dissimulate has no religion." (Al-Kafi vol.9 p.110)


First of all, salafis should always consult their own books before bringing this tradition to mock at the Shia. We read in the esteemed Sunni work Kanz al Ummal:

Narrated Ali: Prophet (s) said: “One who does not practice Taqqiyah has no religion.'
Kanz al Ummal, Volume 3 page 96 Tradition 5665

Imam Jalaluddin Suyuti has also recorded this in his authority work:
Jam'e al-Saghir, Volume 8 page 281 Hadith 26050

Imam Ibn Abi Shaybah records a similar thing in his authority work Al-Musanaf, Volume 7 page 642 from Ibn al-Hanafiyah:

حدثنا وكيع عن إسرائيل عن عبد الأعلى عن ابن الحنفية قال: سمعته يقول لا إيمان لمن لا تقية له

Wakee narrated from Israel from Abdulala from ibn al-Hanafia who said: 'One who does not practice Taqqiyah has no Iman (faith)"

Wakee bin al-Jarah: Ibn Hajar said: 'Thiqah' (Taqrib al-Tahdib, v2 p283).Israel bin Yunus: Ibn Hajar said: 'Thiqah' (Taqrib al-Tahdib, v1 p88).Abdulala bin Amer: Ibn Hajar said: 'Seduq' (Taqrib al-Tahdib, v1 p551).

Moreover the incident wherein Sahabi Hudaifah performed Taqiyyah before Uthman also proves that Taqiyyah in a certain context means to protect one's Deen (religion/faith). Imam Ibn Abi Shaybah records in Al-Musanaf, Volume 6 page 474:

دخل بن مسعود وحذيفة على عثمان فقال عثمان لحذيفة بلغني أنك قلت كذا وكذا قال لا والله ما قلته فلما خرج قال له عبد الله ما لك فلم تقوله ما سمعتك تقول قال إني اشتري ديني بعضه ببعض مخافة أن يذهب كله

Ibn Masud and Hudaifah entered on Uthman. Uthman said to Hudaifah: 'I have been informed that you said such and such thing'. Hudaifah replied: 'By Allah I didn't say that'. When they left, Abdullah (ibn Masud) said to him (Hudaifah): 'Why didn't you say to him what I had heard you saying about him?' Hudaifah replied: 'I protected my Deen so that I don't lose it'.

Secondly, this hadith also needs to be explained in terms of the context in which it was said. Islam had come as the all-encompassing Deen that would rule over the people, and thus ensure that they lived safe lives under the Sharia. Sadly, the situation at that time was so serious that tyrannical rulers were at the helm of the State, they dictated what the State religion was, and they had changed the entire face of the Deen. Religion had been turned on its head, and had in effect become unrecognizable, and to prove this we have the testimony of the Sahabi Malik bin Anas in Sahih Bukhari Volume 1 hadith number 507:

"Anas said, "I do not find (now-a-days) things as they were (practiced) at the time of the Prophet." Somebody said "The prayer (is as it was.)" Anas said, "Have you not done in the prayer what you have done?"

Narrated Az-Zuhri that he visited Anas bin Malik at Damascus and found him weeping and asked him why he was weeping. He replied, "I do not know anything which I used to know during the lifetime of Allah's Apostle except this prayer which is being lost (not offered as it should be)".

This well known Sahaba was testifying that the practices during the time of Rasulullah (s) had been completely lost, save Salat that was also now being changed. The question that we pose is, 'what were the Sahaba doing at this time?' Were they either endorsing these practices or had they simply gone underground and hidden their beliefs in their hearts? Clearly they must have also been practicing Taqiyyah. When our Imam had declared that 9/10th of the Deen was Taqiyyah, it was because 9/10th of Deen that was being propagated by the State was NOT the Deen of Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì, as had been vouched for by Malik - hence the actual 9/10th was hidden in one's hearts it was Taqiyyah. Anyone who did NOT practice Taqiyyah and had in fact embraced the State practices was NOT following the Deen of Allah (swt) i.e.,“one who does not dissimulate has no religion."

[alimohamad40]

salaam
taqyah is allways misunderstood

many people think taqyah means hypocrisy for convinience
hypocrisy is based on lies and deciet
truth is the base of the religion  and what ditincs bad from evil

along with lie comes harm  but some times there is a bigger harm like loosing your life then the lesser of the two evils will be the harm of the lie

taqyah in arabic is derived from the word waqa, weqayah, waqyah , taqwa , ,,,,  in araibc a hat that protects you from the sun is waqyah (protector , shield)

imam baqir is reported to have said :  " Taqyah is to shield the blood , if the blood is shielded then there is no taqyah"
انما التقية لحقن الدماء فاذا حقنت فلا تقيه  

so taqyah is not hypocrisy as is commonly and dangerously  misunderstood , its common sense to protect yourself against major harms by using a minor harm (lie to the enemy)


rememeber that lieing to the enemy is still bad in normal conditions but not as bad as lying to good people.

for example in war lie is used to decieve the enemy in order to stop them from harming others.


now  regarding this hadeeth there are possibilities

either its false
or the context is trying to point out the fact that during most of history the true shias had thier necks under the sword 9 out of 10 of the time and hence it is needed


like Ammar bin yaser who was one of the best of the sahabah and most loyal ,,, they tourtured his parents infront of him and asked him to say " hobal" then he said it and the verse came down to say that its okay when you say it in those conditions while you are forced

i hope you work to spread the right udnerstanding of taqyah
salaam

[singham]

Quote

many people think taqyah means hypocrisy for convinience
hypocrisy is based on lies and deciet

http://youtu.be/jb3BcRh70oM?t=2m15s

[Rasul]

Vol 9 ? Kitab al-Kafi has only 8 Volumes!

singham, on 08 May 2012 - 04:40 AM, said:

http://youtu.be/jb3BcRh70oM?t=2m15s

Important to be gay in Ahli Sunnah

[Aryana]

Rasul, on 08 May 2012 - 06:43 AM, said:

Nawwwww, he's such a cutie!

[Rasul]

Really? O_o

[singham]

Rasul, on 08 May 2012 - 06:43 AM, said:

Important to be gay in Ahli Sunnah

he is not sunni but a deviant quranist.

Edited by singham, 08 May 2012 - 11:01 AM.

[Rasul]

singham, on 08 May 2012 - 11:00 AM, said:

he is not sunni but a deviant quranist.

No he is Sunni go go go Ahli Sunnah looooooooooool

Edited by Rasul, 08 May 2012 - 12:16 PM.

[Suomynona]

It's in volume 9 yet al kafi has only 8 volumes? Lol. La'anatullah on the liars who make this up.

[Suomynona]

"Narrated Az-Zuhri that he visited Anas bin Malik at Damascus and found him weeping and asked him why he was weeping. He replied, "I do not know anything which I used to know during the lifetime of Allah's Apostle except this prayer which is being lost (not offered as it should be)"

What is the reference of this? Where is it from?

[Muntaqim Force]

Rasul, on 08 May 2012 - 06:43 AM, said:

Vol 9 ? Kitab al-Kafi has only 8 Volumes!



Important to be gay in Ahli Sunnah

Al Kafi which can be downloaded online has 8 volumes but there are 9 volumes.

[Rasul]

Muntaqim Force, on 09 May 2012 - 05:07 AM, said:

Al Kafi which can be downloaded online has 8 volumes but there are 9 volumes.

Salam

Both 'Arabic' and 'English & Arabic' versions have only 8 volumes!

....never heard about 9 volumes ....'it is impossible' O_O

[Muntaqim Force]

I guess then volume 9 is mistaken for vol 8 but the narration is present in al kafi and it is explained too why it was said and when it was said.

[Suomynona]

Muntaqim Force, on 09 May 2012 - 09:36 AM, said:

I guess then volume 9 is mistaken for vol 8 but the narration is present in al kafi and it is explained too why it was said and when it was said.

Then please post the why and when?

[Muntaqim Force]

Suomynona, on 10 May 2012 - 01:41 PM, said:

Then please post the why and when?

Just scroll above , i gave you the link.

Thank you

[Fatima Hussain]

Rasul, on 08 May 2012 - 06:43 AM, said:

Vol 9 ? Kitab al-Kafi has only 8 Volumes!



Important to be gay in Ahli Sunnah

[Suomynona]

Oh thank you. So what was the real reference?

[singham]

Rasul, on 08 May 2012 - 12:16 PM, said:

No he is Sunni go go go Ahli Sunnah looooooooooool

prove it.

[Rasul]

singham, on 11 May 2012 - 12:07 AM, said:

prove it.

watch the video

[alimohamad40]

rasul you allways put secterian stuff which is very hateful of sunnies

i can find similar curruptions by people who claim to be shias

[Rasul]

I doing the same what Sunnis do against us

[alimohamad40]

Rasul, on 11 May 2012 - 07:31 AM, said:

I doing the same what Sunnis do against us

some of the wahabies do like this but its not nice...   if you want to fight back fight back with evidence and proofs, then any spectator watching your conflict  will be drawn to your direction and not thiers  when they see them swear and intimidate and see your patience and evidence

salaam

Edited by alimohamad40, 11 May 2012 - 08:09 AM.

[Muntaqim Force]

Suomynona, on 10 May 2012 - 06:41 PM, said:

Oh thank you. So what was the real reference?

I do not know what is not making you going through the article which i gave you so you wont ask such strange questions but let me tell you real reference or interpretation is not the one which some fat belly wahabi mullah told you and motivated you to come over here and try to use this narration to proof shiat wrong.

Please go through the article which i gave you.

[singham]

Rasul, on 11 May 2012 - 07:18 AM, said:

watch the video

i watched the whole video but did not find clue of him being sunni.i think uploader of this video himself is pretending  to be a gay and sunni lolz.

Edited by singham, 11 May 2012 - 10:20 AM.