80 replies to this topic

[Marbles]

And by the way, Zahratul, you are the last person here, sadly, on whom I expected the rhetorical value of my "World War IV" comment to have lost.

Edited by Marbles, 07 May 2012 - 02:54 PM.

[Marbles]

Zahratul_Islam, on 07 May 2012 - 02:59 PM, said:

Unfortunately much of your "brilliance" goes right over my head.

No, I am the same. You have changed. Previously, you couldn't have missed the point.

And amid these "comparisons" and nitpicking, the topic of the thread has got lost.

Edited by Marbles, 07 May 2012 - 03:16 PM.

[ShiaBen]

Marbles, on 07 May 2012 - 12:54 PM, said:

No one is absolving Europeans and other Westerners from their racism but to think that the treatment of relatively poor, and legal, migrants in Arab countries in any way equals with that of the same category of migrants to the West is dishonest. I am not really making, and I don't need to make, a comparison as to which bloc is more racist. The examples we have of the poor, legal migrants in Arab countries find no equal, neither qualitatively nor quantitatively, in the West in general. How many Mexicans and Filipino maids, for instance, are found to have tortured and raped by their American masters?

Americans are harsh to illegal migrants pouring into their borders. Every country is. But illegal immigration is a separate category and isn't the subject of our thread.



The West has done a lot to sort out themselves. So what's Arabs have done so far? Let me know please.

Perhaps the same exact kind of atrocities do not happen here. But atrocities of a similar nature, unfortuantely, do happen here, and you of all people, are quick to condone them. Hypocrite.

[Marbles]

ShiaBen, on 07 May 2012 - 03:19 PM, said:

Perhaps the same exact kind of atrocities do not happen here. But atrocities of a similar nature, unfortuantely, do happen here, and you of all people, are quick to condone them. Hypocrite.

Show me of a single instance when I have done that.

What's the word? Liar eh?

[ShiaBen]

Zahratul pointed out the exploitation of Mexican and other immigrant laborers in the states.

Why have you failed to post an article on the inhumane treatment of these guys?

Why is it that you always cherry pick and pretentiously never bring up crimes committed by the Europeans or other Westerners? (Australians, Americans etc.)

Look at it this way. If one man killed 20 people. Another killed 30. Wrong is still wrong. Quantity doesn't mean much in these circumstances.

You're trying to make arguments based on quantity and the funny thing is it's not like you went knocking on the door of every damn Arab speaker in the freaking world to count how many of them rape, beat, torture or even murder their maids.

So please, be a bit more open minded and stop trying to depict Westernized societies as "near perfect" societies when they have plenty of their own issues in their backyards.

Respect.

[Aarash_Australia]

Zahratul_Islam, on 07 May 2012 - 02:59 PM, said:

There is so much ignorance here i do not even know where to begin. Have you actually spoken to your relative?

The organization I have worked with has taught me that national origin matters, particularly in the States. We reject the majority of cases from Latin American countries or countries with which we have a particular economic or foreign policy interest, but we accept Iranian nationals at a high percentage because we have a vested interest in making their government look incompetent.

Now I am a huge believer in immigration and granting asylum to those who need it. I do think they are many Iranian nationals who deserve it and I am happy they have been granted, but I have seen nationals from less convenient countries with horror stories who have been turned over.

The way a country receives you plays a great role in your integration. If you are lucky enough to be received with open arms (as we both were) then we are eternally grateful and consider this the land of the free and the home of the brave. If you are received the way the victim of a Mexican gang rape violence was received and treated just last week, it is another story entirely.

I am thankful. I am not oblivious.



Unfortunately much of your "brilliance" goes right over my head.

How am I ignorant?

Rather, I think it may be yourself who is ignorant, as you believe that what applies in the USA applies everywhere in the West.

The US has very unique - even strange - immigration policies.

Australia doesn't have much choice or exercise much discretion as regards to what refugees and asylum seekers we accept.

In recent years it has been mostly Sudanese, Somali, Afghans, and Iraqs - with lower levels of Iranians and Burmese.

In family member's experience (and my experience in Iraq and Iraq), the vast majority of Iraqis and Iranians are "at it" (feigning persecution) - whereas the Africans and Afghans are not.

[Mutah_King]

ShiaBen, on 07 May 2012 - 09:31 AM, said:

This thread can mean only one thing. It's not about Islam, it's about fitna making.

Yeah what exactly is your point?

Maybe I should open up threads criticizing Punjabis? Would you find that appealing?

He posted a relevant article that deals with Racism in the Arab world, nothing wrong with it.  If you can find a piece on Punjab then sure, go right ahead and post, I would be interested.  Most people on this forum come from eastern countries where such racist practices are the norm, and hardly ever get any media exposure or are part of the national dialogue, so there is nothing wrong with being reminded time to time.

I cant speak for the later posts though.

[Marbles]

Zahratul_Islam, on 07 May 2012 - 03:37 PM, said:

LOOL. You literally have been comparing and generalizing from throughout.  

Beyond disingenuous to pretend you are above it at this point.

*Sigh*

I have already explained to you why I brought up Europe. It wasn't for making comparisons and I am not looking for comparisons.

Oftentimes you have to generalise to make a point as it's the only way to put the case. That's even how the thread title and Fisk's report is worded. Yet it goes without saying that racist abuse of migrants in Arab world isn't a homogenous phenomenon present across all societies with equal ugliness.

These qualifications should already be understood by readers, without my saying so. I am amazed you needed explanation.

[Aarash_Australia]

Zahratul_Islam, on 07 May 2012 - 03:37 PM, said:

LOOL. You literally have been comparing and generalizing from throughout.  

Beyond disingenuous to pretend you are above it at this point.






I have studied this cross nationally. There are definitely regional trends, but my point was that the policies tended to be skewed and it wasn't a matter of some states being better than others. It is about perspective- who you are and what the state is. There is something inherently human about it and there are plenty of theories that attempt to explain this.

That being said, the tired Orientalist theories you and other pseudo academics on this forum borrow from repeatedly have begun to bore me.

that old canard!

I don't know if I can be accurately categorized as a "pseudo-academic" FYI, seeing as I have a postgraduate degree from a university ranked in the Top 20 institutions of higher learning in the entire world.

But, whatever....

[Abu Muslim]

Those maids choose to come to arab countries and work. It is not as if someone is forcing them.

[Moonshiner]

Abu Muslim, on 07 May 2012 - 04:07 PM, said:

Those maids choose to come to arab countries and work. It is not as if someone is forcing them.

Exactly, Abu-so called "Muslim". This is the reason why they ought to be raped and beaten.

Edited by Moonshiner, 07 May 2012 - 04:08 PM.

[Abu Muslim]

Moonshiner, on 07 May 2012 - 04:08 PM, said:

Exactly, Abu-so called "Muslim". This is the reason why they ought to be raped and beaten.

Well, they know the risks.

Edited by Abu Muslim, 07 May 2012 - 04:22 PM.

[Aarash_Australia]

Abu Muslim, on 07 May 2012 - 04:22 PM, said:

Well, they know the risks.

Yeah, fine, ok, and Muslims going to Germany know there's risk that they'll be murdered by neo-Nazi gangs, so who cares about Muslims who get killed in Europe, right?

[Professor Higgins]

Of all the Arab peoples, the Lebanese and the Kuwaiti are the most racist and most disrespectful to domestic servants ; the Jordanian Bedouin are not far behind.

But Persians and Israelis are the most racist of all peoples of the World.

[ShiaBen]

Professor Higgins, on 07 May 2012 - 05:41 PM, said:

Of all the Arab peoples, the Lebanese and the Kuwaiti are the most racist and most disrespectful to domestic servants ; the Jordanian Bedouin are not far behind.

But Persians and Israelis are the most racist of all peoples of the World.

*Sigh*....So racist that all five of these groups have to put up with your ilk...

[Abu Muslim]

Professor Higgins, on 07 May 2012 - 05:41 PM, said:

Of all the Arab peoples, the Lebanese and the Kuwaiti are the most racist and most disrespectful to domestic servants ; the Jordanian Bedouin are not far behind.

But Persians and Israelis are the most racist of all peoples of the World.

Yes, especially Persians who still long for the Persian empire and the death of all non-Persians in Middle East

[ShiaBen]

Says who? Says you? I see....no surprises there...

[~Zee Zee~]

Professor Higgins, on 07 May 2012 - 05:41 PM, said:

Of all the Arab peoples, the Lebanese and the Kuwaiti are the most racist and most disrespectful to domestic servants ; the Jordanian Bedouin are not far behind.

But Persians and Israelis are the most racist of all peoples of the World.

falasteeniyi are the most racist, traitors, cheats, liars, snots on the planet they're the ones that gave the prophets hell. Them and their cousin yahood

Edited by LebanesePrincess, 07 May 2012 - 06:07 PM.

[Propaganda_of_the_Deed]

[Wahdat]

In conclusion, racism is the essence of humanity....the ugly part of it. That said racism comes in various shapes and forms- some are racist in smart way like the Europeans who do not tolerate injustice in their homes and outsource it to foreign (3rd world) countries. Then there is stupid racism in places like Iran or ME where they commit injustice within their own homes which is akin to sitting on a branch and sawing it off from the tree- STUPID!

A European/American/Australian would turn a foreigner into a productive member of society who is going to build their society by becoming Doctors, Engineers, Lawyers etc.
A Muslim would turn a foreigner into an unproductive & unskilled member of society through bureaucratic or traditional restriction which in turn impoverishes their own society. Thats why West is where it is and ME is where it is.

Abu Muslim, on 07 May 2012 - 04:07 PM, said:

Those maids choose to come to arab countries and work. It is not as if someone is forcing them.

Somehow this statement doesnt make sense coming from someone from Bangladesh.

[Moonshiner]

Professor Higgins, on 07 May 2012 - 05:41 PM, said:

Of all the Arab peoples, the Lebanese and the Kuwaiti are the most racist and most disrespectful to domestic servants ; the Jordanian Bedouin are not far behind.

I had the opposite experience in Lebanon. Our neighbors were Sunni and they had a Sri Lankan maid who they were very kind to. But I've heard worse things about the Gulf Arabs.

[Wahdat]

Mushu, on 07 May 2012 - 02:10 PM, said:

Worse than Iran, where they treat even their Shia brothers and sisters like animals? Afghans in Iran do not even have the most basic of human rights.

Afghans and Iranians speak the same language, have the same culture, and are for the most part part of the same history. Their relationship is more civil than the Arab-South Asian one where they dont speak the same language or have the same culture or history. Their entire relationship is based on economics.

[doobybrother]

Marbles you picked on the wrong Arabs. It should be the Saudis, always the Saudis.
I am disappointed akhi