Chaotic Muslem, on 02 May 2012 - 01:01 AM, said:
Thanks, that looks very interesting, I'm going to read it later and see if it contradicts this study. It seems to be more theoretical than experimental though?
aliasghark, on 02 May 2012 - 01:31 AM, said:
Probably unrelated to the main subject, just a random thought (feel free to ignore): in my experience I've found people who have been given laughably distorted descriptions of God (and other subjects in religion in general) and are made to believe in it, they tend to experience a knee-jerk reaction as they grow up and end up swinging all the way to the other extreme (of Atheism). "If that is supposed to be God, then there is no God"
And then when they eventually mature and are able to work things out by themselves, people realize that different descriptions don't mean the thing being described doesn't exist. "That weird thing I was told cannot be God, but this makes complete sense"
Logical progression: belief in some objects or people being God --> loss of belief in God completely --> acceptance of the one true God
(in other words: gullibility and lack of independent thought --> free independent thinking begins --> maturity and wisdom (fruits of labor from the struggle to find answers))
My own journey was something like this, although to my parents credit they gave me an excellent religious upbringing. Well my Dad did anyway. I was just the kind to rebel with no cause in order to make my own mistakes... But again, what if some people are just 'naturally' (I hate that word as it implies a naturalistic fallacy, but for want of a better one) predisposed to a lack of faith? Where do they stand within an Islamic framework?
Incognito, on 02 May 2012 - 02:52 AM, said:
I am too sick and tired of the term 'religion'. It is far too loose for us to make good use of anything.
I have found in my own experience that those who have Muslim backgrounds hold a much greater importance to faith. Whereas you get some who by studying things like physics begin to reject the existence of God whereas every person with a Muslim background who I know has done advanced physics still believes in a God.
I'm going to have to think aloud for a moment so bear with me.
That's an interesting point, but I think it was Ernest Gellner who suggested that out of all the Abrahamic faiths in their traditional (ie not watered down and liberalised) form, Islam was the most compatible the modern world and in particular, modern scientific thought. Could it be our belief in a multi-layered Qur'an in need of tafsir made us less dogmatic about our texts, enabling scientific and religious thought to flourish simultaneously? Or is it the historical lack of a complex religious feudal hierarchy to put down thinkers whom the Catholic Church would have seen as a threat to entrenched interests? If I remember correctly, one of the reasons Gellner posits is the egalitarianism at the heart of Islam, especially in the matters of religious scholarship which makes a single unified mainstream view on certain matters elusive, and as a result, almost impossible to contravene.
If Muslims are more stead-fast in their faith in face of science, could it be because we've never really seen them as two separate entities, but seen one as the extension of the other? Although it could be purely superficial; the pursuit of ilm
is one of the most encouraged things in Islam after all which may be why Islamic society has usually never threatened by such.