93 replies to this topic

[placid]

Hi Solomon,

Quote from Post 29:
When do you feel this prophecy of Jesus sitting on the throne is going to become a reality . Certainly from reading the new testament you find that the disciples
thought that the end times was coming in there lifetime.

Yes, the disciples expected Jesus to become their earthly King and defeat the Romans by the power of God, and set up a kingdom.

*** The first mention of Jesus as King was in Matthew 2:2, when the Wisemen came from the east and went to Jerusalem and asked, “Where is He who has been born King of the Jews? For we have seen His star in the East and have come to worship Him.”

*** After Jesus fed the 5000 on the hillside in John 6:
14 Then those men, when they had seen the sign that Jesus did, said, “This is truly the Prophet who is to come into the world.”
15 Therefore when Jesus perceived that they were about to come and take Him by force to make Him king, He departed again to the mountain by Himself alone.

--- (They recognized Jesus by the miracles He performed as ‘The Prophet like Moses who was to come,’ from Deuteronomy 18:15-19, --- so they saw Him as the coming King. --- but it was not the time to be recognized by the Jews.)

*** On the day that is called ‘Palm Sunday’ He was hailed as a King when He rode into Jerusalem on a donkey, which fulfilled the Prophecy in Zechariah 9:
9. “Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion!
Shout, O daughter of Jerusalem!
Behold, your King is coming to you;
He is just and having salvation,
Lowly and riding on a donkey,
A colt, the foal of a donkey.

The ‘Triumphal entry is recorded in Matthew 21:
7 They brought the donkey and the colt, laid their clothes on them, and set Him thereon
8 And a very great multitude spread their clothes on the road; others cut down branches from the trees and spread them on the road.
9 Then the multitudes who went before and those who followed cried out, saying:
“Hosanna to the Son of David!
‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’[e]
Hosanna in the highest!”

*** When Jesus was calling His disciples, this happened in John 1:
43 The following day Jesus wanted to go to Galilee, and He found Philip and said to him, “Follow Me.”
44 Now Philip was from Bethsaida, the city of Andrew and Peter.
45 Philip found Nathanael and said to him, “We have found Him of whom Moses in the law, and also the prophets, wrote—Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.”
46 And Nathanael said to him, “Can anything good come out of Nazareth?”
Philip said to him, “Come and see.”
47 Jesus saw Nathanael coming toward Him, and said of him, “Behold, an Israelite indeed, in whom is no deceit!”
48 Nathanael said to Him, “How do You know me?”
Jesus answered and said to him, “Before Philip called you, when you were under the fig tree, I saw you.”
49 Nathanael answered and said to Him, “Rabbi, You are the Son of God! You are the King of Israel!”

*** --- There are other places that Jesus is referred to as the Prophet, the Son of David, and the King of Israel, as well as this statement He made to ‘the woman at the well,’ in John 4:
25 The woman said to Him, “I know that Messiah is coming” (who is called Christ). “When He comes, He will tell us all things.”
26 Jesus said to her, “I who speak to you am He.”


*** He was asked this by Pilate after a mock trial before the High Priest, in John 18:
33 Then Pilate entered the Praetorium again, called Jesus, and said to Him, “Are You the King of the Jews?”
34 Jesus answered him, “Are you speaking for yourself about this, or did others tell you this concerning Me?”
35 Pilate answered, “Am I a Jew? Your own nation and the chief priests have delivered You to me. What have You done?”
36 Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here.”
37 Pilate therefore said to Him, “Are You a king then?”
Jesus answered, “You say rightly that I am a king. For this cause I was born, and for this cause I have come into the world, that I should bear witness to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth hears My voice.”

*** --- Yes, they expected Jesus to declare His kingdom on earth in His lifetime, and even after His resurrection, before His ascension, in Acts 1:
6.  Therefore, when they had come together, they asked Him, saying, “Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?”
7 And He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has put in His own authority.
8 But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”

*** This preaching of the Gospel to the ends of the earth is the building of the Spiritual Temple in the Kingdom of God, as these verses say in Ephesians 2:
17 And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off and to those who were near.
18 For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.
19 Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God,
20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone,
21 in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy Temple in the Lord,
22 in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.

--- If you can understand it, this is saying that the Spiritual Temple is already built on the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets, --- and Spiritual believers are the ‘building blocks’ of the Temple. --- And Jesus is the Chief Cornerstone.

--- So God has already built His Spiritual Temple and, because Jesus was always obedient to His Heavenly Father, --- God has made Him King.
And these verses give the conclusion in 1 Corinthians 15:
24 Then comes the end, when He (Christ) delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power.
25 For He (Christ) must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet.
26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death.
27 For “He (God) has put all things under His (Christ’s) feet.”
28 Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him (God) who put all things under Him, THAT GOD MAY BE ALL IN ALL.

--- The Scriptures make this a little long, but you can study it and see where Christians become part of this Spiritual Kingdom of God through Faith in God and His word.

*** However, Jesus will return to earth where He will bring an end to all wickedness, and set up a righteous Kingdom. --- There are many Prophecies, and God has not yet revealed to mankind when this will happen, but a few things will happen before this.


Placid

[placid]

Hi LoveforTruth,

Quote from Post 26:
When Christians believe that we are only saved by faith, Jesus - Issa  said that faith without act is void :

Response: --- The whole ministry of Jesus was teaching Faith in God and obedience to Him. --- Jesus said, “Follow Me.” --- Even the Quran repeats this in Surah 3:
48. "And God will teach him the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel,
49. "And (appoint him) an apostle to the Children of Israel, (with this message): "'I have come to you, with a Sign from your Lord, in that I make for you out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, and breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by God's leave: And I heal those born blind, and the lepers, and I quicken the dead, by God's leave; and I declare to you what ye eat, and what ye store in your houses. Surely therein is a Sign for you if ye did believe;
50. "'(I have come to you), to attest the Law which was before me. And to make lawful to you part of what was (Before) forbidden to you; I have come to you with a Sign from your Lord. So fear God, and obey me.
51. "'It is God Who is my Lord and your Lord; then worship Him. This is a Way that is straight.'"

The writer of Hebrews wrote this in 11:
6.  But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.
--- Faith is the basis and beginning of Christian life.

--- The Muslims have picked up on one verse in the Book of James where he said, --- “Faith without works is dead.”
(You naturally picked this up from someone else because if you found it yourself you would know it was from the Book of James, and not a statement Jesus made. --- But it is misunderstood to think it says that you can be saved by faith OR by works. You should read this short book for yourself so you know what is says.)

James was the brother of Jesus, and he had a nickname, they called him ‘camelknees,’ because his knees were swelled up from his constant praying.

James was the Pastor of the Christian Church in Jerusalem, and after the Jews and Romans persecuted the Christians in Jerusalem so that they were spread out in the country, --- James wrote this letter to the believers from the 12 tribes:
1:1. James, a bondservant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ,
To the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad:
Greetings.
2.  My brethren, count it all joy when you fall into various trials,
3 knowing that the testing of your faith produces patience.
4 But let patience have its perfect work, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking nothing.
5 If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach, and it will be given to him.
6 But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven and tossed by the wind.
7 For let not that man suppose that he will receive anything from the Lord;
8 he is a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways.

--- James wrote with compassion, to encourage them and with sternness, to stir them up and keep them active. --- Faith produces action
James identifies himself as a ‘servant’ of God and of Jesus.
He wrote to the Jewish Christians and calls them “My brethren,”
---  Verses 2-8 are one of the great teachings for all Christians, --- It is saying, we will be persecuted for our faith, but don’t be discouraged, but count it all joy --- because we have access to God who gives wisdom and guidance.
--- (I would think that with a name like yours, that perhaps reveals a heart attitude, --- you would be interested in examining these Scriptures, and asking God directly for wisdom.

James speaks sternly to the Christians who were self-seeking, in these verses in 4:
1.Where do wars and fights come from among you? Do they not come from your desires for pleasure that war in your members?
2. You lust and do not have. You murder and covet and cannot obtain. You fight and war. Yet you do not have because you do not ask.
3. You ask and do not receive, because you ask amiss, that you may spend it on your pleasures.
4. Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.
5. 5 Or do you think that the Scripture says in vain, “The Spirit who dwells in us yearns jealously”?
6. But He gives more grace. Therefore He says:
“God resists the proud,
But gives grace to the humble.”

7.Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.
8. Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded.
9. Lament and mourn and weep! Let your laughter be turned to mourning and your joy to gloom.
10.  Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and He will lift you up.

He was speaking to the Christians who were straying from their commitment to God. --- They may have said, “Oh, we still believe in God, --- but they were living with one foot in the world, and therefore, not serving God as Christians are obliged to do. --- And James was teaching that faith produces ‘good works,’ --- and to claim that they had faith without producing any ‘works’ to prove their faith, then it is dead, or dormant, --- it may still be there, but it is not evident.

It is like a car with a broken transmission. The motor runs, and all the features work, but the connection between the motor and the wheels is dead.
You said ---“ Faith without works is void.” --- And that is right --- it is like , ‘the motor is running, but it is not going anywhere.

Paul was inspired to write this in Ephesians 2:  
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

--- For by (God’s) grace you have been saved through (your) faith, and not of (anything we can do) ourselves, but --- it is the gift of God.
NOT OF WORKS --- IF IT IS A GIFT, THEN IT CAN’T BE WORKED FOR, OR IT IS NOT A GIFT, --- it is payment, or a reward for work done.
--- If our salvation was as a result of something we did to obtain it, we could boast about it, --- however, by faith, we ‘submit ourselves unto God’ and believe his provision for our salvation. --- That involves total ‘surrender’ to God’s will so that He can guide the believer in doing His will.
--- If you don’t have ‘personal guidance’ from God, --- how do you know that what you are doing, is His will?

Verse 10 clarifies it this way:
‘For we (Christians) are His workmanship (work force for good), --- created in Christ Jesus, to do ‘good works.’
--- You see, all through Jesus’ ministry He did ‘good works,’ --- as it says in Surah 3:49. --- And Jesus also said, “Greater works than these shall you do, because I go to My Father.”

--- If you remember reading where Jesus said it was necessary that He went to His Father (which indicated the termination of His life on earth, as it says in Surah 3:55), ---because He said this in John 16:
7. Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper (Comforter, Holy Spirit), will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you.

--- So, the Holy Spirit was ‘in Jesus’ to perform miracles, but after Jesus went to Heaven, God sent His Holy Spirit to indwell all the Spiritual believers.
And this is recorded in Acts 2: 1-4.

So, after they were ‘filled with the Holy Spirit’ on the Day of Pentecost, they did the same miracles that Jesus did. --- Jesus said they would do “greater works,” --- and the greater works were not in ‘quality,’ --- but in quantity, because they could be in different places, whereas Jesus was only in one place at a time.  
A lot of these ‘greater works’ today involve feeding the hungry, providing medicine, and going to disaster areas to help rebuild homes and lives.
--- it is the expression of the compassion and generosity that Jesus taught His disciples, --- Love God, and love your neighbor as yourself.

--- In a disaster area like Syria, the ones I would see that are doing ‘good works’ are the organizations like the Red Cross, the Salvation Army, and World Vision, --- if they are allowed to be there.  

Eph 2:10. --- For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
--- The last part says --- ‘which God prepared (for us) beforehand (before we were saved, and yielded to Him as vessels that He could use), --- THAT WE SHOULD WALK IN THEM.’ --- We should live our lives by faith in God, and obedience to Him in doing ‘good works’ for others.
‘Good works’ without faith are just ‘good works.’

Here is a final word from James 3:
13 Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him show by good conduct that his works are done in the meekness of wisdom.
14 But if you have bitter envy and self-seeking in your hearts, do not boast and lie against the truth.
15 This wisdom does not descend from above, but is earthly, sensual, demonic.
16 For where envy and self-seeking exist, confusion and every evil thing are there.
17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, willing to yield, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without hypocrisy.
18 Now the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace.

(I know, --- This is like a ‘sermon’ but how else are you going to know what you are disagreeing with when you misquote Scripture?)


Placid

[soloman]

Hi Placid

Quote from post #30.

Most of the quotations you refer to comes from the New Testament.  There is a couple of points I would like to note.

1-The NT is not a revelation from God.

2-It is a collection of accounts that were collected +/- 45 years on average after the event.

3-The authors of these accounts already had a preconceived belief that Jesus was the Messiah and king and son of God.

4-When collecting these accounts the authors gave there own interpretation on matters relating to Jesus, who he was etc. That is why we find many
   discrepancies between the gospels.

5-To add to the poor accuracy one must take into consideration that these authors were old men and 2000 years ago preservation of information were very poor.

I would like to note that I believe that Jesus is the Messiah. He was born from a virgin birth. He did not die but was raised to heaven
and will return in the future.

But the belief that Jesus (Messiah) is the king who is going to build the Lords Temple promised to David is questionable.

Firstly, I would like to quote Jesus in Mathew 22:41 where Jesus asks the Pharisees ,whose son is the Messiah? They replied , 'the son of David'. Then
Jesus answered " How is it then that David ,speaking by the spirit ,calls him Lord ? For he says ," The Lord said to my Lord : " Sit at my right hand until I put
your enemies under your feet." If then David calls him Lord , how can he be his son ?.

So we find that your belief  that Messiah and the king is one and the same was the same belief that Pharisees held. As you say the Messiah
is the son of David so did the Pharisees answer when Jesus asked them .

So, according to Mathew 22:41 Jesus disagree with this belief of you that The King promised in a covenant to David in samuel 7 : 12-16 and the Messiah
Jesus is one and the same.

Regards

Soloman

[placid]

More questions from Post 1:

--- 10) Where did the devil take Jesus first? (Matthew 4:5-8) The Devil took Jesus first to the parapet of the temple, then to a high place to view all the Kingdoms of the world. (Luke 4:5-9) The Devil took Jesus first to a high place to view the kingdoms, then to the parapet of the temple.


Q 10 --- This is a discrepancy, but no contradiction except in the order. Mark also mentions in 1: 12-13, that after Jesus was baptized He went into the wilderness for forty days and was tempted of the devil, but Mark didn’t list the temptations. Therefore the three writers agree that it happened
--- Of the many manuscripts, there may have been some that recorded it each way, but once it was written, the Scripture wasn’t changed.


***
--- 11) What color was the robe the blessed Jesus was put in? And they stripped him and put a scarlet robe upon him. (Matthew 27:28). And the soldiers plaited a crown of thorns, and put it on his head, and arrayed him in a purple robe. (John 19:2)


Q 11 --- Would you say that the main subject of these three accounts is the color of the robe?

MATTHEW 27: 27. Then the soldiers of the governor took Jesus into the Praetorium and gathered the whole garrison around Him.
28 And they stripped Him and put a scarlet robe on Him.
29 When they had twisted a crown of thorns, they put it on His head, and a reed in His right hand. And they bowed the knee before Him and mocked Him, saying, “Hail, King of the Jews!”
30 Then they spat on Him, and took the reed and struck Him on the head.
31 And when they had mocked Him, they took the robe off Him, put His own clothes on Him, and led Him away to be crucified.

MARK 15: 16. Then the soldiers led Him away into the hall called Praetorium, and they called together the whole garrison.
17 And they clothed Him with purple; and they twisted a crown of thorns, put it on His head,
18 and began to salute Him, “Hail, King of the Jews!”
19 Then they struck Him on the head with a reed and spat on Him; and bowing the knee, they worshiped Him.
20 And when they had mocked Him, they took the purple off Him, put His own clothes on Him, and led Him out to crucify Him.

JOHN 19: 1. So then Pilate took Jesus and scourged Him.
2 And the soldiers twisted a crown of thorns and put it on His head, and they put on Him a purple robe.
3 Then they said,[a] “Hail, King of the Jews!” And they struck Him with their hands.
--- (Mark and John say ‘purple’ which is the color of royalty.)

To make a comparison, let’s go to Surah 2, where again, color isn’t the important thing, but I will show you how different translators render the same Arabic word (color), --- when God had commanded that the people make a special sacrifice:

68. They said: "Beseech on our behalf Thy Lord to make plain to us what (heifer) it is!" He said; "He says: The heifer should be neither too old nor too young, but of middling age. Now do what ye are commanded!"
69. They said: "Beseech on our behalf Thy Lord to make plain to us Her colour." He said: "He says: A fawn-coloured heifer, pure and rich in tone, the admiration of beholders!"
70. They said: "Beseech on our behalf Thy Lord to make plain to us what she is: To us are all heifers alike: We wish indeed for guidance, if God wills."
71. He said: "He says: A heifer not trained to till the soil or water the fields; sound and without blemish." They said: "Now hast thou brought the truth." Then they offered her in sacrifice, but not with good-will. --- (Compare Numbers 19.)
--- (This seemed to be that a perfect heifer was sacrificed for the sins of the people --- for making a golden calf to worship, --- And it was perhaps a golden color, but here is how they describe it.)

Yusuf Ali says. ‘fawn colored’
Pickthall: She is a yellow cow
Shakir: Her color is intensely yellow
Sher Ali: A cow of dun color. –The dictionary says, ‘of a greyish brown color’
Khalifa: She is a yellow heifer
Arberry: She shall be a golden color.
Palmer: It is a dun color, intensely dun
Rodwell: She is a fawn colored cow
Sale: She is a red cow, intensely red

Not only does this one word get translated differently, but the contradiction is that a heifer is not a cow.
This perfect heifer was like a ‘princess’ or ‘queen,’ --- that did no work.
--- A cow has calves and gives milk, --- a heifer is a teenager in the barnyard.
Nevertheless, Surah 2 is named “The Cow” --- referring to the fawn colored, yellow, dun, golden, or red heifer.
--- (Little discrepancies, --- all from the same Arabic word.)

The significance of the sacrifice of the unblemished heifer is reflected in the next two verses where it says:
2:72. Remember ye slew a man and fell into a dispute among yourselves as to the crime: But God was to bring forth what ye did hide.
73. So We said: "Strike the (body) with a piece of the (heifer)." Thus God bringeth the dead to life and showeth you His Signs: Perchance ye may understand.

--- (Sher Ali uses the word ‘compare’ instead of ‘strike,’ so renders it this way):
73. Then WE (God) said, `Compare this incident with some other similar ones' and you will discover the truth. Thus does God give life to the dead and show you HIS Signs that you may understand.
--- (And this refers to the sacrifice of Jesus for the sins of the world.)


***
12) In 1 Corinthians 1:17 ("For Christ sent me [Paul] not to baptize but to preach the gospel") Paul said Jesus was wrong when he said in Matthew 28:19 "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them…" Clearly one of these people is wrong, either way, it’s a contradiction.


Q 12 --- The writer of this is very wrong. --- (The critic here has tried to show a contradiction between Jesus and Paul, but there isn’t one. It is his own lie.)

--- HE DOESN’T READ VERY WELL because the verses before this say in 1 Corinthians 1:
11 For it has been declared to me concerning you, my brethren, by those of Chloe’s household, that there are contentions among you.
12 Now I say this, that each of you says, “I am of Paul,” or “I am of Apollos,” or “I am of Cephas,” or “I am of Christ.”
13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?

14 I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius,
15 lest anyone should say that I had baptized in my own name.
16 Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas. Besides, I do not know whether I baptized any other.
17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of no effect.
18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

--- (Paul’s main obligation was ‘Preaching the Gospel,’ --- and baptism followed a profession of faith.)
As People were being saved they were being baptized in obedience to Jesus’ command, --- but Paul himself did not baptize many, --- and he gives the reason, “lest anyone should say that I had baptized in my own name.”
--- Besides that, it is understood that Paul was small of stature and he always had others to help, so they would no doubt do the baptizing.

Notice these verses in John 4 where Jesus did not do the baptizing either:  
1. Therefore, when the Lord knew that the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John
2. (though Jesus Himself did not baptize, but His disciples),
--- In large Churches, the main speaker doesn’t do the baptizing, --- so, with Jesus, the disciples did the baptizing, --- and with Paul, his attendants did the baptizing. (Not even a discrepancy here.)


Placid

[soloman]

Hi Placid

I agree with you that discrepancy in color is not a major difference.

I also agree with you that there is many different english translations of the Arabic Quran .I have to say that this is not acceptable according to the
Quran but people do it anyway.It is said in the Quran that it is an Arabic Quran and if it was revealed in any other language then much discrepancies
would occur. This is precisely what you allude to in your examples of different translations.
There are many more examples I can give you ,which dramatically changes the whole context of the meanings in the Quran. To be honest I have not come
across any english translation that gives a proper interpretation of the arabic.

What I can factually say is that the Quran was revealed in Arabic and it is stressed in the Quran that this an Arabic Quran.
Can you tell me in what language the NT was revealed ? Is there any verses in it that say it must remain in such a language to prevent
confusion.?


I'll give you some concrete differences in the NT.

In Mathew 3:13-16 Jesus meets John the Baptist at the Jordan River to be baptized. John did not want to be baptized by Jesus ,but Jesus insists .
From their conversation you find they know who each other was.

In Luke 7:18-23 you find Johns disciples  informing him of Jesus, he sends out 2 disciples to find out from Jesus if he's the one to come
or are they expecting somebody else.

So you find in Mathew Jesus met John in the Jordan river and they knew each other .In Luke John's disciples informs him of Jesus ,he then sends
them out to find out who Jesus is. That is a fundamental difference.


In Luke 7:26-27 Jesus says John is a prophet and even more than a prophet.

In John 1:21-22 they ask John are you the prophet and he says no I'm not.

Who is lying Jesus or John?

To me this is a fundamental discrepancy because John is a key figure in Christianity.

You still have to explain why Jesus disagrees with you that the Messiah is not a son of David Mathew 22:41

Regards

Soloman

[LoveforTruth]

placid, on 13 April 2012 - 06:03 PM, said:

Quote from Post 10:

So, what you mean is that God would have sent different religions ?

Response: --- God Chose the Hebrew nation to be holy unto Him. They were to be the model or, example to nations around them, --- with the purpose of bringing them to an understanding of God and then putting their faith in Him.
They were given the Books of Moses to guide them and they were to ‘surrender unto God” and follow His will.
They were given specific rules about food and meat that they could eat. --- You will have to do some reading in Leviticus and Deuteronomy to know some of these rules. It was not a new religion but a continuation of God’s relationship with Abraham.


Quote: Knowing that He is All Wise, He would certainly not have forbidden pork for the Jews if it was not because it was bad for them.

Response: --- As I said before, the swine has a cloven hoof but does not chew its cud, therefore, it was considered unclean for the Jews,---  however, it was always allowed for Gentiles because the Jewish laws didn’t apply to them, unless they became a Jew and followed all of their rules.

Judaism is not what you pretend. Jews believe that Gentils are created by God to serve them as slaves. Here are some examples :

http://www.missionis.../nwo/talmud.htm

Furthermore, the orthodox jews don't accept anyone to "become" jews. Judaism can only be transmitted by a jewish mother.


In another thread, you said that we should not refer to words of humans, but to stick to the Word of God. But Mark, Luke, Matthew, John, Peter, and Paul ARE human beings. They speak by themselves. And if the Holy Spirit was amongst us, we should all receive the same answer when we ask for the Truth.

So, how can you prove which one says the truth, among them, and why accept the NT and reject the apocryph.

Islam tells us that Paul is especially the one against whom Jesus ('Issa) said not to trust :

18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
1 JohnChapter 2





⁸ He replied: “Watch out that you are not deceived. For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am he,’ and, ‘The time is near.’ Do not follow them
Luke

How can we accept that what Paul says is the Word of God, All Wise :

¹Would that ye could bear with me in a little foolishness: but indeed ye do bear with me.

⁸I robbed other churches, taking wages of them that I might minister unto you

Then, he rejects the other apostles (who should we trust ? With what proof ? Why would we accept the selection of the Church, and not others) :

¹³For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, fashioning themselves into apostles of Christ. ¹⁴And no marvel; for even Satan fashioneth himself into an angel of light.

¹⁸Seeing that many glory after the flesh, I will glory also. ¹⁹For ye bear with the foolish gladly, being wise yourselves. ²⁰For ye bear with a man, if he bringeth you into bondage, if he devoureth you, if he taketh you captive, if he exalteth himself, if he smiteth you on the face. ²¹I speak by way of disparagement, as though we had been weak. Yet whereinsoever any is bold (I speak in foolishness), I am bold also. ²²Are they Hebrews? so am I. Are they Israelites? so am I. Are they the seed of Abraham? so am I.²³Are they ministers of Christ? (I speak as one beside himself) I more; in labors more abundantly, in prisons more abundantly, in stripes above measure, in deaths oft.


We know very well that Paul killed many people before pretending that he saw Jesus. How can we trust someone who was unfair ?

Was Zacharia ever unfair and murderer ?

Was Jesus ever unfair and murderer ?

Edited by LoveforTruth, 23 April 2012 - 03:26 AM.

[placid]

Hi Solomon,
Quote from Post 32:
Most of the quotations you refer to comes from the New Testament. There is a couple of points I would like to note.

***
1-The NT is not a revelation from God.

Response: --- Gabriel confirms the Gospel as from God in Surah 3:3.
--- And it confirms that it was on hand, and used in Surah 5:
46. And in their footsteps We (God) sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear God.
47. Let the people of the Gospel judge by what God hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what God hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel.

***
2-It is a collection of accounts that were collected +/- 45 years on average after the event.


Response: --- Matthew was a tax collector and business man, used to keeping records. He is believed to have been the ‘recorder’ or secretary of the disciples and first wrote “The Sayings of Jesus” in Aramaic, which was the language of the people. He then wrote a Gospel in Aramaic and they would both have been copied and distributed, as well as preserved, --- and were no doubt the main content of the ‘Synoptic Gospels,’ Matthew, Mark, and Luke.
Matthew could record events as they happened, and because he travelled with Jesus he could correct anything he wrote.  

Greek became the prominent language of commerce and literature and the Gospel accounts were written in Greek, no doubt using the format of the Aramaic Gospel, --- as well as the Apostles having access to each other’s writings.

MARK was with Peter in Rome and produced his Gospel for the Roman readership about 55-60 AD.

MATTHEW wrote from the Church at Antioch in Syria, dated about 60, --- He wrote to the Jews and included more of the OT and the law. He explained the ‘fulfilling of the law’ by the new law of Love, in Matthew 5.

LUKE travelled with Paul and they went to Rome about 60 AD, and Luke no doubt had his Gospel mostly written. --- It was before his second writing, The Book of Acts, because of the introductions in both. --- Luke was Greek and it is believed he may have made the final format in Greece, because he wrote it for the Greeks.

JOHN wrote his general Gospel account much later, perhaps from 85-90. --- If he was perhaps 20 when he became a disciple in the year Jesus started His ministry in 30 AD, then he would have been 75-80, --- and he wrote The Revelation after that.  --- He would have had copies of the other three Gospel accounts so didn’t repeat all of the events.

There is evidence that they kept records because they sometimes refer to one another, and here are verses from Paul's letter to Timothy, sfter he had been taken as a prisoner to Rome, when Luke accompanied him.--- 2 Timothy 4:
9 Be diligent to come to me quickly;
13 Bring the cloak that I left with Carpus at Troas when you come — and the books, especially the parchments.


***
3-The authors of these accounts already had a preconceived belief that Jesus was the Messiah and king and son of God.


Response: --- The disciples had knowledge, because they were with Jesus when the events happened.  There is nothing better than an eye witnesses, and here we have two, The Apostle John and John the Baptist, in John 1:

14 And the Word (Logos) became flesh and dwelt among US, and WE beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
15 John (the Baptist) bore witness of Him and cried out, saying, “This was He of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me is preferred before me, for He was before me.’”
16 (John the Apostle added) --- And of His fullness WE have all received, and grace for grace.
17 For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

***
4-When collecting these accounts the authors gave there own interpretation on matters relating to Jesus, who he was etc. That is why we find many
discrepancies between the gospels.


Response: --- The individuals wrote, --- they didn’t ‘copy and paste.’ --- Their writing expresses their individuality --- and the minor discrepancies do not change the message of the Gospel. --- 2 Timothy 3:
16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,
17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

--- I don’t usually make comparisons, but the story of Lot and the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah is recorded once in Genesis, --- it is mentioned seven times in the Quran, each time with little variations, --- and there are other discrepancies in stories from the OT, but it didn’t change Muhammad’s Mission to destroy idolatry from Arabia, did it?

***
5-To add to the poor accuracy one must take into consideration that these authors were old men and 2000 years ago preservation of information were very poor.


Response: --- Matthew may have been 25-30, being a businessman, when Jesus called him from his place of business. His first writing of the ‘Sayings of Jesus’ (which I believe would be the ‘sayings’ of Matthew 5, 6, and 7, commonly called ‘The Sermon on the Mount’),  would have been current news, --- and the Gospel in Aramaic would have been   published after the death, resurrection and ascension of Jesus, but within a short time. --- when he finalized his Gospel account in Greek he would have been 55-60.

Mark identifies himself once in his account as a ‘young man,’ so he may have been a teenager, from 15-18, --- so he would have been about 45-48 when he published his Gospel account in Rome.

Luke was a medical doctor and could have been 25-30 when Jesus died.  He travelled with Paul on missionary journeys and went with him to Rome about 60, so he would have been perhaps 55-60.
--- These writers may each have been writing their Biography of Jesus and the Gospel for many years before they published them.
--- Your misleading commentators want to give the idea that, in their old age they sat down one afternoon and decided to write a Gospel account from memory.

The Angel Gabriel confirmed the Gospels as they were written and made no comments of errors, did he?
And the Codex Siniaticus is the same as our NT today, with a few verses omitted, because it was translated from a different Manuscript. ---
However, our New Testaments today contain these verses, because they were already in the manuscripts when the verses were numbered (or else there would be some gaps of verses).
--- But in most, they have a footnote saying they are not in all manuscripts. --- Then it is left up to the reader to read them or not.

(Enough for now, more later)


Placid

[LoveforTruth]

You can read from the following quranic verses that the Injeel sent by Jibr'il from God to Jesus ('Issa) is not the same as the 4 injeels written by 4 or more human beings that is in the NT.

Simply because human beings have distorted it, like the Tawrat sent to Moeshe - Moussa , in order to hide the Truth and act according to their interests and that people don't find out about their crimes.


  Quran says : bible was faded

Can ye (O ye men of Faith) entertain the hope that they will believe in you? Seeing that a party of them heard the Word of Allah, and perverted it knowingly after they understood it.Quran 2.75 ( Surat Albaqarah , verse 75)

There is among them a section who distort the Book with their tongues: (as they read) you would think it is a part of the Book, but it is no part of the Book; and they say, "That is from Allah," but it is not from Allah: it is they who tell a lie against Allah, and (well) they know it!

Quran 3.78 ( Surat Al-Imran , verse 78)

But because of their breach of their Covenant, We cursed them, and made their hearts grow hard: they change the words from their (right) places and forget a good part of the Message that was sent them, nor wilt thou cease to find them - barring a few - ever bent on (new) deceits: but forgive them, and overlook (their misdeeds): for Allah loveth those who are kind.

Quran 5.13 (Surat Al-Maida , verse 13)

Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say: "This is from Allah," to traffic with it for a miserable price! Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby.

Quran 2.79 (Surat Al-Bakarah , verse 79)

Say: "O People of the Book! exceed not in your religion the bounds (of what is proper), trespassing beyond the truth, nor follow the vain desires of people who went wrong in times gone by, who misled many, and strayed (themselves) from the even Way.

Quran 5.77

Is jesus  god ?

They do blaspheme

In blasphemy indeed are those that say that Allah is Al-Masih the son of Maryam. Say: "Who then hath the least power against Allah, if His Will were to destroy Al-Masih the son of Maryam, his mother, and all, everyone that is on the earth? For to Allah belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between. He createth what He pleaseth. For Allah hath power over all things." Quran 5.17 ( Surat Al-Mayda , verse 17)

They do blaspheme who say: "Allah is Al-Masih the son of Maryam." But said Al-Masih: "O Children of Israel! Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord." Whoever joins other gods with Allah, Allah will forbid him the Garden, and the Fire will be his abode. There will for the wrong-doers be no one to help.

Quran 5.72 ( Surat Al-Mayda, verse 72)

Jesus was no more than a Messenger

Al-Masih, the son of Maryam, was no more than a Messenger; many were the Messengers that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They had both to eat their (daily) food. See how Allah doth make His Signs clear to them; yet see in what ways they are deluded away from the truth! Quran 5.75 ( Surat Al-Mayda, verse 75)

He was no more than a servant: We granted Our favour to him, and We made him an example to the Children of Israel.

  Quran 43.59 (Surat Az-Zukhruf , verse 59)

O People of the Book! commit no excesses in your religion: nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Al-Masih 'Isa the son of Maryam was (no more than) A Messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Maryam, and a Spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His Messengers.

Quran 4.171 ( Surat An-Nisaa, verse 171) .

Al-Masih disdaineth not to serve and worship Allah, nor do the angels, those nearest (to Allah): those who disdain His worship and are arrogant, He will gather them all together unto Himself to (answer).

Quran 4.172 ( Surat An-Nisaa, verse 172)

It is not (possible) that a man, to whom is given the Book, and Wisdom, and the Prophetic office, should say to people: "Be ye my worshippers rather than Allah's": on the contrary (he would say): "Be ye worshippers of Him Who is truly the Cherisher of all: for ye have taught the Book and ye have studied it earnestly."Quran  3.79 (  Surat-Alimran , verse 79)

They take their priests and their anchorites to be their lords in derogation of Allah, and (they take as their Lord) Al-Masih, the son of Maryam; yet they were commanded to worship but One God: there is no god but He. Praise and glory to Him: (far is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him). Quran 9.31 ( Surat At-Tawbah, verse 31)

The similitude of 'Isa before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him "Be": and he was. Quran  3.59 ( Surat Alimran , Verse 59)

O 'Isa the son of Maryam!

And behold! Allah will say: "O 'Isa the son of Maryam! didst thou say unto men, 'Worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah'?" He will say: "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, Thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, though I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden.117] "Never said I to them aught except what Thou didst command me to say, to wit, 'Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord'; and I was a witness over them whilst I dwelt amongst them; when thou didst take me up thou wast the Watcher over them, and Thou art a witness to all things.
[118] "If Thou dost punish them, they are Thy servants: if Thou dost forgive them, Thou art the Exalted in power, the Wise."119] Allah will say: "This is a day on which the truthful will profit from their truth: theirs are Gardens, with rivers flowing beneath, their eternal home: Allah well-pleased with them, and they with Allah: that is the great salvation, (The fulfilment of all desires).  Quran 5.116 ( Surat Al-Mayda, verse 116..118)

Is jesus son of god ?

And they said : Most Gracious has begotten a son!

http://aimer-jesus.c...es/image003.jpgThey say: "(Allah) Most Gracious has begotten a son!"
[89] Indeed ye have put forth a thing most monstrous!
[90] As if the skies are ready to burst, the earth to split asunder, and the mountains to fall down in utter ruin.
[91] That they should invoke a son for (Allah) Most Gracious.
[92] For it is not consonant with the majesty of (Allah) Most Gracious that He should beget a son
[93] Not one of the beings in the heavens and the earth but must come to (Allah) Most Gracious as a servant.http://aimer-jesus.c...es/image004.jpg Quran 19.88..93 ( Surat Maryam , verses 88 .. 93)

http://aimer-jesus.c...mage003.jpgThey say: "Allah hath begotten a son": Glory be to Him, nay, to Him belongs all that is in the heavens and on earth: everything renders worship to Him.http://aimer-jesus.com/e/images/image004.jpg Quran 2.116 ( Surat albakarah , verse 116)

http://aimer-jesus.c...mage003.jpgThey say, "Allah hath begotten a son!" Glory be to Him! He is Self-Sufficient! His are all things in the heavens and on earth! No warrant have ye for this! Say ye about Allah what ye know not?http://aimer-jesus.com/e/images/image004.jpg Quran 10.68 ( Surat Yunus , verse 68)

What they say is nothing but falsehood !

http://aimer-jesus.c...e003.jpgFurther, that He may warn those (also) who say, "Allah hath begotten a son":[5] No knowledge have they of such a thing, nor had their fathers. It is a grievous thing that issues from their mouths as a saying: What they say is nothing but falsehood!http://aimer-jesus.c...es/image004.jpg Quran 18.4,5 ( Surat Al-Kahf , verses 4,5)

http://aimer-jesus.c.../image003.jpgTo Him is due the primal origin of the heavens and the earth: how can He have a son when He hath no consort? He created all things, and He hath full knowledge of all things.http://aimer-jesus.com/e/images/image004.jpgQuran 6.101 ( Surat  Al-Anam , Verse 101)

http://aimer-jesus.c...es/image003.jpgIt is not befitting to (the majesty of) Allah that He should beget a son. Glory be to Him! when He determines a matter, He only says to it, "Be," and it is.http://aimer-jesus.c...es/image004.jpg Quran 19.35( Surat Maryam , verse 35)


They are (but) servants raised to honour

http://aimer-jesus.c...es/image003.jpg And they say: "(Allah) Most Gracious has begotten offspring." Glory to Him! They are (but) servants raised to honour.
[27] They speak not before He speaks, and they act (in all things) by His command.
[28] He knows what is before them, and what is behind them, and they offer no intercession except for those who are acceptable, and they stand in awe and reverence of His (glory).
[29] If any of them should say, "I am a god besides Him," such a one We should reward with Hell: thus do We reward those who do wrong. http://aimer-jesus.c...es/image004.jpg Quran 21.26,29 ( Surat alanbya , verses 26..29)

The Jews call .., and the Christians call ....

http://aimer-jesus.c...image003.jpgThe Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Al-Masih the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the Unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!
[31] They take their priests and their anchorites to be their lords in derogation of Allah, and (they take as their Lord) Al-Masih, the son of Maryam; yet they were commanded to worship but One God: there is no god but He. Praise and glory to Him: (far is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him).
[32] Fain would they extinguish Allah's Light with their mouths, but Allah will not allow but that His Light should be perfected, even though the Unbelievers may detest (it).
[33] It is He Who hath sent His Messenger with Guidance and the Religion of Truth, to proclaim it over all religion, even though the Pagans may detest (it).
[34] O ye who believe! There are indeed many among the priests and anchorites, who in falsehood devour the substance of men and hinder (them) from the Way of Allah. And there are those who bury gold and silver and spend it not in the Way of Allah: announce unto them a most grievous penalty. http://aimer-jesus.c...es/image004.jpgQuran 9.32,34 ( Surat  At-Touba , Verses 32..34)

If  Most Gracious had a son

http://aimer-jesus.c...es/image003.jpg

Say: "If (Allah) Most Gracious had a son, I would be the first to worship."

[82]

Glory to the Lord of the heavens and the earth, the Lord of the Throne (of Authority)! (He is free) from the things they attribute (to Him)!

[83]

So leave them to babble and play (with vanities) until they meet that Day of theirs, which they have been promised.

http://aimer-jesus.c...es/image004.jpg

Quran 43.81 ( Surat Azzukhruf , verses 81..83)

http://aimer-jesus.c...es/image003.jpg

Had Allah wished to take to Himself a son, He could have chosen whom He pleased out of those whom He doth create: but Glory be to Him! (He is above such things.) He is Allah, the One, the Irresistible.

http://aimer-jesus.c...es/image004.jpg

Quran 39.4 ( Surat Az-Zumar , verse 4)

Message of god to those which believe that god is a trinity

Say not "Trinity"
http://aimer-jesus.c...es/image003.jpg

O People of the Book! commit no excesses in your religion: nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Al-Masih 'Isa the son of Maryam was (no more than) A Messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Maryam, and a Spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His Messengers. Say not "Trinity": desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is One God: glory be to Him: (far Exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.

http://aimer-jesus.c...es/image004.jpg

Quran  4.171 ( Sourat  ANNISA, verse  171)

They do blaspheme who say: Allah is one of three in a Trinity

http://aimer-jesus.c...es/image003.jpg They do blaspheme who say: Allah is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One God. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them [74] Why turn they not to Allah and seek His Forgiveness? For Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.http://aimer-jesus.c...es/image004.jpg Quran  5.73  ( Sourat  ALmayda, verse  73,74)

Was jesus crucified ?
What  says the Quran?

O 'Isa! I will take thee and raise thee to myself

http://aimer-jesus.c...es/image003.jpg Behold! Allah said: "O 'Isa! I will take thee and raise thee to myself and clear thee (of the falsehood) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject Faith, to the Day of Resurrection: then shall ye all return unto Me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute.http://aimer-jesus.c...es/image004.jpg Quran 3.55 ( Sourat alimran , verse 55)

Jesus was never crucified
http://aimer-jesus.c...es/image003.jpg That they rejected Faith; that they uttered against Maryam a grave false charge;
[157] That they said (in boast), "We killed Al-Masih 'Isa the son of Maryam, the Messenger of Allah"; but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not.[158] Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise.
[159] And there is none of the People of the Book but must believe in him before his death; and on the Day of Judgment he will be a witness against them.http://aimer-jesus.c...es/image004.jpg Quran  4.156,159 ( Sourat  AN-NiSAA, verses 156..159)

The redemption ! who is the savior ?


There is No original sin

http://aimer-jesus.c...es/image003.jpg

In the result, they both (Adam and Eve ) ate of the tree, and so their nakedness appeared to them: they began to sew together, for their covering, leaves from the Garden; thus did Adam disobey his Lord, and allow himself to be seduced.

[122] But his Lord chose him (for His Grace): He turned to him, and gave him guidance.

http://aimer-jesus.c...es/image004.jpgQuran 20.121

Allah forgives all sins
http://aimer-jesus.c...es/image003.jpg

Say: "O my Servants who have transgressed against their souls! despair not of the Mercy of Allah: for Allah forgives all sins: for He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

http://aimer-jesus.c...es/image004.jpg

Quran 39.53

Everyone is responsible of his acts

http://aimer-jesus.c...ge003.jpgVerily the Hour is coming - My design is to keep it hidden - for every soul to receive its reward by the measure of its Endeavour. http://aimer-jesus.c...es/image004.jpg Quran20.14

http://aimer-jesus.c...es/image003.jpg

Every man's fate We have fastened on his own neck: on the Day of Judgment We shall bring out for him a scroll, which he will see spread open.

http://aimer-jesus.c...es/image004.jpg

Quran 17.13

http://aimer-jesus.c...mage003.jpgThen shall anyone who has done an atom's weight of good, see it!

[8] And anyone who has done an atom's weight of evil, shall see it.

http://aimer-jesus.c...es/image004.jpgQuran 99.7

bearer of burdens can bear the burden of another

http://aimer-jesus.c...es/image003.jpg

Namely, that no bearer of burdens can bear the burden of another;

[39] That man can have nothing but what he strives for;

[40] That (the fruit of) his striving will soon come in sight;  

http://aimer-jesus.c...es/image004.jpgQuran 53.38

To finish ..
http://aimer-jesus.c...es/image003.jpgNot your desires, nor those of the People of the Book (can prevail): whoever works evil, will be requited accordingly. Nor will he find, besides Allah, any protector or helper.
[124] If any do deeds of righteousness, - be they male or female - and have faith, they will enter Heaven, and not the least injustice will be done to them.http://aimer-jesus.c...es/image004.jpgQuran 4.123

Do You Love God?


If ye do love God


http://aimer-jesus.c...es/image003.jpgSay: "If ye do love Allah, follow me: Allah will love you and forgive you your sins; for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."
[32] Say: "Obey Allah and His Messenger": but if they turn back, Allah loveth not those who reject Faith.http://aimer-jesus.c...es/image004.jpg Quran 3.31 (Surat Alimran , verse 31,32)

God loves ...

http://aimer-jesus.c...es/image003.jpg for Allah loveth those who do good.. http://aimer-jesus.c...es/image004.jpgQuran 2.195 (Surat AlBakarah , verse 195)

http://aimer-jesus.c...image003.jpgNay, those that keep their plighted faith and act aright, verily Allah loves those who act aright.. http://aimer-jesus.c...es/image004.jpgQuran 3.76 (Surat Alimran , verse 76)

http://aimer-jesus.c...age003.jpgNever stand thou forth therein. There is a mosque whose foundation was laid from the first day on piety; it is more worthy of thy standing forth (for prayer) therein. In it are men who love to be purified; and Allah loveth those who make themselves pure. .http://aimer-jesus.com/e/images/image004.jpg Quran 9.108

http://aimer-jesus.c...age003.jpg  For Allah loves those who turn to Him constantly and He loves those who keep themselves pure and clean.http://aimer-jesus.com/e/images/image004.jpg Quran 2.222

http://aimer-jesus.c...es/image003.jpg How many of the Prophets fought (in Allah's way), and with them (fought) large bands of godly men? But they never lost heart if they met with disaster in Allah's way, nor did they weaken (in will) nor give in. And Allah loves those who are firm and steadfast. http://aimer-jesus.c...es/image004.jpgQuran 3.146

http://aimer-jesus.c...es/image003.jpg Then, when thou hast taken a decision, put thy trust in Allah. For Allah loves those who put their trust (in Him).http://aimer-jesus.c...es/image004.jpg Quran 3.159

http://aimer-jesus.c...es/image003.jpg If thou judge, judge in equity between them. For Allah loveth those who judge in equity. http://aimer-jesus.c...es/image004.jpgQuran 5.42

http://aimer-jesus.c...es/image003.jpg Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just.http://aimer-jesus.c...es/image004.jpg Quran 60.8

http://aimer-jesus.c...es/image003.jpgand be fair: for Allah loves those who are fair (and just).http://aimer-jesus.c...es/image004.jpgQuran 49.9

God doesnt love :

http://aimer-jesus.c...mage003.jpgSay: "Obey Allah and His Messenger": but if they turn back, Allah loveth not those who reject Faith.http://aimer-jesus.c...es/image004.jpg Quran 3.32

http://aimer-jesus.c...es/image003.jpg "As to those who believe and work righteousness, Allah will pay them (in full) their reward; but Allah loveth not those who do wrong.http://aimer-jesus.com/e/images/image004.jpg Quran3.57

http://aimer-jesus.c...image003.jpgfor Allah loveth not the arrogant, the vainglorious.http://aimer-jesus.com/e/images/image004.jpg Quran 4.36

http://aimer-jesus.c...es/image003.jpg

Allah will deprive usury of all blessing, but will give increase for deeds of charity; for He loveth not creatures ungrateful and wicked.

http://aimer-jesus.c...es/image004.jpgQuran 2.276

http://aimer-jesus.c...es/image003.jpg and seek not (occasions for) mischief in the land: for Allah loves not those who do mischief http://aimer-jesus.c...es/image004.jpg Quran 28.77

http://aimer-jesus.c...es/image003.jpg And swell not thy cheek (For pride) at men, nor walk in insolence through the earth: forAllah loveth not any arrogant boaster.http://aimer-jesus.com/e/images/image004.jpgQuran 31.18

http://aimer-jesus.c...es/image003.jpg In order that ye may not despair over matters that pass you by, nor exult over favours bestowed upon you. http://aimer-jesus.c...es/image004.jpgFor Allah loveth not any vainglorious boaster, Quran 57.23

http://aimer-jesus.c...es/image003.jpg Verily Allah will defend (from ill) those who believe: verily, Allah loveth not any that is a traitor to faith, or shows ingratitude.http://aimer-jesus.com/e/images/image004.jpg Quran 22.38

http://aimer-jesus.c...es/image003.jpg Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors.http://aimer-jesus.com/e/images/image004.jpg Quran 2.190

The Good Way


Jews or christians?
http://aimer-jesus.c...es/image003.jpgThey say: "Become Jews or Christians if ye would be guided (to salvation)." Say thou: "Nay! (I would rather) the Religion of Ibrahim, the True, and he joined not gods with Allah."
[136] Say ye: "We believe in Allah, and the revelation given to us, and to Ibrahim, Isma'il, Ishaq, Ya'qub, and the Tribes, and that given to Musa and 'Isa, and that given to (all) Prophets from their Lord: we make no difference between one and another of them: and we bow to Allah (in Islam).
[137] So if they believe as ye believe, they are indeed on the right path; but if they turn back, it is they who are in schism; but Allah will suffice thee as against them, and He is the All-Hearing, the All-Knowing.
[138] (Our religion is) the Baptism of Allah: and who can baptize better than Allah? And it is He Whom we worship.
[139] Say: Will ye dispute with us about Allah, seeing that He is our Lord and your Lord; that we are responsible for our doings and ye for yours; and that we are sincere (in our faith) in Him?
[140] Or do ye say that Ibrahim, Isma'il, Ishaq, Ya'qub, and the Tribes were Jews or Christians? Say: Do ye know better than Allah? Ah! who is more unjust than those who conceal the testimony they have from Allah? But Allah is not unmindful of what ye do!http://aimer-jesus.c...es/image004.jpgQuran  2.135
sons of Allah ??
http://aimer-jesus.c...es/image003.jpg(Both) the Jews and the Christians say: "We are sons of Allah, and His beloved." Say: "Why then doth He punish you for your sins? Nay, ye are but men, of the men He hath created: He forgiveth whom He pleaseth, and He punisheth whom He pleaseth: and to Allah belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between: and unto Him is the final goal (of all)." http://aimer-jesus.c...es/image004.jpgQuran 5.18
Paradise ?
http://aimer-jesus.c...es/image003.jpgAnd they say: "None shall enter Paradise unless he be a Jew or a Christian." Those are their (vain) desires. Say: "Produce your proof if ye are truthful."
[112] Nay, whoever submits his whole self to Allah and is a doer of good he will get his reward with his Lord; on such shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.http://aimer-jesus.c...es/image004.jpg Quran 2.111,112
Allah will judge between them
http://aimer-jesus.c...es/image003.jpgThe Jews say: "The Christians have naught (to stand) upon"; and the Christians say: "The Jews have naught (to stand) upon." Yet they (profess to) study the (same) Book. Like unto their word is what those say who know not; but Allah will judge between them in their quarrel on the Day of Judgment.http://aimer-jesus.c...es/image004.jpg Quran 2.113
the (only) Guidance
http://aimer-jesus.c...es/image003.jpgNever will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion. Say: "The Guidance of Allah, that is the (only) Guidance," wert thou to follow their desires after the knowledge which hath reached thee, then wouldst thou find neither Protector nor Helper against Allah.http://aimer-jesus.c...es/image004.jpgQuran 2.120
Say: "We believe in..

http://aimer-jesus.c...es/image003.jpg

Say: "We believe in Allah, and in what has been revealed to us and what was revealed to Ibrahim, Isma'il, Ishaq, Ya'qub, and the Tribes, and in (the Books) given to Musa, 'Isa, and the Prophets, from their Lord: we make no distinction between one and another among them, and to Allah do we bow our will (in Islam)."

[85] If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter he will be in the ranks of those who have lost (all spiritual good).

http://aimer-jesus.c...es/image004.jpgQuran 3.84

Edited by LoveforTruth, 23 April 2012 - 01:06 PM.

[soloman]

Hi Placid

It is not the amount of lines you write but the amount of knowledge you can derive from what you write.

Firstly, The the NT and the Revealed scriptures from God (better known as the OT)to the Prophets is opposite ends of a coin - lets be clear on that.
I don't have a problem with the OT ,much of it is in the Quran. Hence you quoting the story of Lot.

The Gospel given to Jesus in the Quran is not the same as the 4 gospels in NT. Logic can tell you that we would then name the 4 gospels in the NT
the gospel of Jesus and not Mat,Mark,Luke and John. The 4 gospels had their own authors - but contained extracts of what Jesus taught them.

You say many of the authors must have recorded these events when they were young and then jotted them down when they were older.
Really, that don't make any sense ,surely if these men were younger when they recorded these events less discrepancies  would have occured, otherwise
they were really poor observers or recorders.

Their is many other things I would like to comment on . But you first need to explain to me why Jesus disagreed with you and the Pharisees in Math:22:41
on who's son the Messiah is.
Bare-in mind  according to the scripture's ,you only a Jew if you can trace your ancestry via your father to one of the 12 tribes of Israel. The Jews of today don't follow that
ideology. Also Joseph was not the father of Jesus . Jesus had no father, remember. One must not create false beliefs.

If the disciples had knowledge as you say then why did they think the end times were coming in their generation.? (with all respect to the disciples)

Regards

Soloman

[placid]

Hi Solomon,

To continue from Post 32:

Quote: --- I would like to note that I believe that Jesus is the Messiah. He was born from a virgin birth. He did not die but was raised to heaven
and will return in the future.


Response: --- Yes, we believe that Jesus is the Messiah, that He was from virgin birth, that He lived among men and showed them how to live, that He died, was buried and raised again by the power of God, having defeated sin and death.

Surah 2:72. Remember ye slew a man and fell into a dispute among yourselves as to the crime: But God was to bring forth what ye did hide.
73. So We said: "Strike the (body) with a piece of the (heifer)." Thus God bringeth the dead to life and showeth you His Signs: Perchance ye may understand.
--- The Commentator Maulana said in a footnotr: ‘This refers to the martyrdom of Jesus Christ.’

4:155. (They have incurred divine displeasure): In that they (the Jews) broke their covenant; that they rejected the signs of God; that they slew the Apostle in defiance of right; that they said, "Our hearts are the wrappings (which preserve God's Word; We need no more)"; - Nay, God hath set the seal on their hearts for their blasphemy, and little is it they believe; -
156. That they rejected Faith; that they uttered against Mary a grave false charge;
157. That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Apostle of God"; - but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-

--- (Those who don’t believe it are in doubt, and though the Jews boasted about it, they didn’t kill Him, neither did the Romans kill Him, --- but He gave up His spirit and died, as the Scripture says.)
This is why the soldiers didn’t break His legs as they did to the two on the other crosses, because Jesus was already dead. After all things were fulfilled, He said, “Father, into your hands I commit my spirit,” and having said thus, He breathed His last. Luke 23:46.

Surah 3:55. Behold! God said: "O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject faith, to the Day of Resurrection:

--- I understand that the Arabic word translated ‘take thee’ refers to physical death as it is rendered by Sher Ali, and other translations:
55. Remember the time when Allah said' `O Jesus, I will cause thee to die a natural death and will raise thee to Myself, and will clear thee of the charges of those who disbelieve, and will exalt those who follow thee above those who disbelieve, until the Day of Resurrection; .

***
Quote: But the belief that Jesus (Messiah) is the king who is going to build the Lords Temple promised to David is questionable.


Response: --- I gave you the verses before, that Jesus was called the King of the Jews, and that He was the ‘Chief Cornerstone’ of the Spiritual Temple.
When He returns there is no prophecy that says He will build a material Temple, is there?

***
Quote: Firstly, I would like to quote Jesus in Mathew 22:41 where Jesus asks the Pharisees ,whose son is the Messiah? (42) They replied , 'the son of David'. (43) Then Jesus answered " How is it then that David ,speaking by the spirit ,calls him Lord ? For he says , (44) "The Lord said to my Lord : " Sit at my right hand until I put your enemies under your feet. (45) "If then David calls him Lord , how can he be his son ?.
--- (46) And no one was able to answer Him a word, nor from that day on did anyone dare question Him anymore.


Response: --- You didn’t quite finish the Scripture as 46 says, ‘And no one was able to answer Him a word.”
The Jews were trying to lure Jesus into a trap where he would break some law in their eyes, so they could accuse Him.
--- They answered rightly that the prophecies say that The Messiah would be the son (descendant) of David. --- but they had no answer for the second question, “If David calls him Lord, how can he be his son?"

If you look at Psalm 110, --- if your Bible has the Psalms titled, it may say, “The coming of the Priest – King – Judge.

As well as saying “The Lord said to my Lord,” in verse 1, --- It also says in verse 4, “You are a priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek.”
This relates to Hebrews 7 and 8, where the Messiah is to be Priest and King.

In Matthew 22:43. --- How is it then that David, SPEAKING BY THE SPIRIT, called him Lord. --- You see, in ‘inspired’ prophecy, God can predict through a person, but call it the present. --- All is present to God.
It was like this , “The Lord (God) said to my Lord (the coming Messiah) Sit on My right hand, till I make your enemies your footstool.”

The Scripture says that Jesus ascended to the right hand of God, and the Gospel was preached throughout the world by Jesus’ followers. --- Jesus is reigning on His throne from heaven, and when He returns to earth He will defeat all of the enemies.

--- It says this in 1 Corinthians 15:
24. Then comes the end, when He (Jesus) delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power.
25. For He (Christ) must reign until He has put all enemies under His feet
28. Then when all things are made subject to Him (Jesus), then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him (God) who put all things under Him, --- THAT GOD MAY BE ALL IN ALL.

***      
Quote: --- So we find that your belief that Messiah and the king is one and the same was the same belief that Pharisees held. As you say the Messiah
is the son of David --- so did the Pharisees answer when Jesus asked them .


Response: --- Yes they answered rightly about the Messiah being the son of David,
But they had no answer for the second question, --- which I answered above.

And here is another example of the same expression, which is again given IN THE SPIRIT to Elizabeth, the mother of John the Baptist.

After Mary was told by Gabriel that she would have a son (Jesus) who would be CALLED the Son of God, in Luke 1:35, --- Gabriel said that her elderly cousin Elizabeth was going to have a son, (John the Baptist) 36, -
37. “For with God nothing shall be impossible.”
38. Then Mary said, “Behold the maidservant of the Lord! Let it be to me according to your word.” And the angel departed from her.
39. Now Mary arose in those days and went into the hill country with haste to a city of Judah.
40. And entered the house of Zecharias and greeted Elizabeth.
41. And it happened, when Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, that the babe leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was FILLED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT
42. Then she spoke out with a loud voice and said, “Blessed are you among women and blessed is the fruit of your womb.
43. But why is this granted to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?”
--- (This is declaring by the Holy Spirit, that spoke through Elizabeth, that Jesus is Lord, even before He is born.)  

***
Quote: --- So, according to Mathew 22:41 Jesus disagree with this belief of you that The King promised in a covenant to David in samuel 7 : 12-16 and the Messiah
Jesus is one and the same.


Response: --- The problem is that you, --- or whoever, tried to connect this short term prophecy from 2 Samuel 7 with the Messiah --- when they saw the name ‘son of God,’ --- which in this case referred to Solomon, the physical son of David.
In the first part it mentions David wanting to build a house (Temple) for the Lord, but God sent Nathan to speak to him and say:
5. Go and tell My servant David, Thus says the Lord, “Would you build a house for Me to dwell in?”
12.” When your days are fulfilled and you rest with your fathers, I will set up your seed after you, who will come from your body and I will establish his kingdom.
13. He shall build a house for My name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever.  
14. I will be his Father and he will be My son. If he commits iniquity I will chastise him.
15. But My mercy shall not depart from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I removed from before you.
16. (Speaking to David), --- And your house and your kingdom shall be established forever before you. Your throne shall be established forever.”
--- (This was one of the occasions where God called a man, in this case Solomon, His son.)

The cross reference to this Scripture is 1 Kings 5:
5. And behold I propose to build a house for the name of the Lord my God, as the Lord spoke to my father David, saying, “Your son, whom I will set on your throne in your place, he shall build the house for My name.
8:17. Now it was in the heart of my father David to build a house for the name of the Lord God of Israel.
18. But the Lord said to my father David, ‘Whereas it was in your heart to build a house for My name, you did well that it was in your heart.
19. Nevertheless you will not build the house, but your son, who will come from your loins, he shall build the house for My name.
20 . So the Lord has fulfilled His word that He spoke, and I have filled the position of my father David, and sit on the throne of Israel as the Lord promised, and I have built a house for the name of the Lord God of Israel.
--- So the prophecy was fulfilled in David’s son Solomon.

I want you to notice one more thing. --- In this prophecy when God said, “I will be his Father, and he will be My son.” --- Had it referred to the coming Messiah it would have been capitalized, ‘I will be His Father, and He will be My Son.

Notice that every reference to Jesus is capitalized in Luke 1:
31. “And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bring forth a Son, and shall call His name Jesus.
32. He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest and the Lord God shall give Him the throne of His father David
33. And He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of His kingdom there will be no end.  


Placid

[soloman]

Hi Placid

placid, on 24 April 2012 - 09:56 AM, said:

Hi Solomon,

Surah 2:72. Remember ye slew a man and fell into a dispute among yourselves as to the crime: But God was to bring forth what ye did hide.
73. So We said: "Strike the (body) with a piece of the (heifer)." Thus God bringeth the dead to life and showeth you His Signs: Perchance ye may understand.
--- The Commentator Maulana said in a footnotr: ‘This refers to the martyrdom of Jesus Christ.’   

Further from the truth you can't be - There is footnotes from other translators who differ completely with this commentator .

That's all it is a footnote - Not an accurate translation.


157. That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Apostle of God"; - but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-

This is a good translation you quoted above ,Quite the opposite of the footnote you quoted. THEY KILLED HIM NOT (JESUS)



He said, “Father, into your hands I commit my spirit,” and having said thus, He breathed His last. Luke 23:46.

Here you quote Luke again
1- Luke was not even a Jew.
2-Most international historians today say that Luke copied most of Marks gospel.
3-He never witnessed any of the events mentioned in his gospel.
4-He saw many people writing things and he decided to do the same for his friend Theophilus .
5-It was written in Koine Greek

You find that Luke is a poor source to quote from ,rather quote from the OT.


--- I understand that the Arabic word translated ‘take thee’ refers to physical death as it is rendered by Sher Ali, and other translations:

You have the incorrect understanding of the Arabic it does not refer to physical death.( the best translation I can refer you to is the A.Yusuf Ali translation)
***

Quote: But the belief that Jesus (Messiah) is the king who is going to build the Lords Temple promised to David is questionable.
Response: --- I gave you the verses before, that Jesus was called the King of the Jews, and that He was the ‘Chief Cornerstone’ of the Spiritual Temple.
When He returns there is no prophecy that says He will build a material Temple, is there?

You are right Jesus will not return to build a physical temple. It is The King who will be raised from the seed of King David who will build the
Lords Temple Samuel 7:13-14. " He is the one who will build a house for my Name and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever "

When he returns there is no prophecy that says He will build a material Temple, is there?
You cannot be sure of that statement because in your above posts you say that the prophecy of Jesus sitting on his throne have not come to pass yet.

Certainly when you read in the Psalms you find the King spoken of in a materialistic way :

Psalm 45 :7-8 " You love righteousness and hate wickedness; therefore God , your God, has set you above all companions by anointing you with the oil of joy.
All your robes are fragrant with myrrh and aloes and cassia; from palaces adorned with ivory the music of the strings makes you glad."

Psalm 45:2 " You are the most excellent of men and your lips have been anointed with grace, since God has blessed you forever."

Psalm 89 :3-4 " I have made a covenant with my chosen one, I have sworn to David my servant, I will establish your line forever and make your throne FIRM
through all generations."

Psalm 89 :34-37 " I will not violate my covenant or altered what my lips uttered. Once for all I have sworn by my holiness - and I will not lie to David
-that his line will continue forever and his throne endure before me like the sun; it will be established forever like the moon,the faithful witness in the sky"

Everything mentioned in the Psalms about the king is materialistic - so shall the Temple be.

It's easy to say and claim its not physical but spiritual because it gives you some leverage to argue your point.

***

Response: --- You didn’t quite finish the Scripture as 46 says, ‘And no one was able to answer Him a word.”
The Jews were trying to lure Jesus into a trap where he would break some law in their eyes, so they could accuse Him.
--- They answered rightly that the prophecies say that The Messiah would be the son (descendant) of David. --- but they had no answer for the second question, “If Davidcalls him Lord, how can he be his son?"

So now you agree with the Pharisees . They could not answer Jesus about whose son the Messiah is and so you cannot.


If you look at Psalm 110, --- if your Bible has the Psalms titled, it may say, “The coming of the Priest – King – Judge.
This Psalm does not explain whose son the Messiah is . What it does say is that Jesus is a High Priest in the line of MELCHIZEDEK.
As you don't know whose so Melchizedek is so you don't know whose son the Messiah is as you quote below.


As well as saying “The Lord said to my Lord,” in verse 1, --- It also says in verse 4, “You are a priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek.”
This relates to Hebrews 7 and 8, where the Messiah is to be Priest and King.

The Writers of Hebrews - as I said before they put there own interpretation to things because a lack o devine revalation relating to Jesus. Only after
revelation revealed in the Quran do we know who Jesus realy was ,for what purpose he came and what happened to him.


Response: --- The problem is that you, --- or whoever, tried to connect this short term prophecy from 2 Samuel 7 with the Messiah --- when they saw the name ‘son of God,’ --- which in this case referred to Solomon, the physical son of David.
In the first part it mentions David wanting to build a house (Temple) for the Lord, but God sent Nathan to speak to him and say:
5. Go and tell My servant David, Thus says the Lord, “Would you build a house for Me to dwell in?”
12.” When your days are fulfilled and you rest with your fathers, I will set up your seed after you, who will come from your body and I will establish his kingdom.
13. He shall build a house for My name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever.  
14. I will be his Father and he will be My son. If he commits iniquity I will chastise him.
15. But My mercy shall not depart from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I removed from before you.
16. (Speaking to David), --- And your house and your kingdom shall be established forever before you. Your throne shall be established forever.”
--- (This was one of the occasions where God called a man, in this case Solomon, His son.)

This is incorrect .This notion that Solomon built the Temple is what the Jews also beleive . The Temple Soloman Built was destroyed in 586 BC , rebuilt again and
again destroyed by the Romans till present day .
Why lie against God to make your point. In the covenant to David he is promised that his descendent will build a Temple that will last forever,
So much for Solomons Temple ,it has been destroyed twice. It is not Solomon whose going to build the Temple but the root of David who God will raise up.
He is the King.

Soloman

[placid]

Hi Solomon,

I enjoy our dialogue, but I don't want you to misunderstand me.

When I give the answers from the Scripture, either from the Bible or the Quran, I leave it at that. --- The Scriptures must speak for themselves.

Because Solomon's Temple, and the next Temple were destroyed, it is logical that no Temple on earth could be 'for ever,' --- so the 'lineage' of the Messiah had to be through His ancester, David, and to be everlasting, it has to be a Spiritual Temple
--- "The world is passing away and the lusts thereof, but he who does the will of God abides forever." 1 John 2:17.

Acts 7:47.
47 But Solomon built Him a house.
48 “However, the Most High does not dwell in temples made with hands, as the prophet says:

49 ‘Heaven is My throne,
And earth is My footstool.
What house will you build for Me? says the Lord,
Or what is the place of My rest?
50 Has My hand not made all these things?’

Hebrews 9:11. But Christ came as High Priest of the good things to come, with the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation.
12 Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.
13 For if the blood of bulls and goats and the ashes of a heifer, sprinkling the unclean, sanctifies for the purifying of the flesh,
14 how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

16 For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives.
18 Therefore not even the first covenant was dedicated without blood.
19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and goats, with water, scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book itself and all the people,
20 saying, “This is the blood of the covenant which God has commanded you.”
21 Then likewise he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle and all the vessels of the ministry.
22 And according to the law almost all things are purified with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no remission.


--- Have it your own way about another earthly Temple. The Jews believe they will build another Temple, as do many Christians.
--- But it will still be an earthly Temple.

[placid]

To continue with the questions:

--- 13) Has anyone ascended up to heaven? Elijah went up to heaven: "And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven." 2 Kings 2:11 "No man hath ascended up to heaven but he that came down from heaven, even the son of man." John 3:13


Q 13.  Response: --- This is a little too deep to be answered from one verse, but it is obvious in the wording that it says,
“No man has first came down from heaven and then gone back up except the Son of man.”
However, Jesus was born  on earth, --- but the Word (Logos), which came from heaven and indwelt the body of Jesus, came down from heaven and after the physical Jesus went through death to conquer death, He was raised in a Spiritual Body, in which He, Jesus, ascended to heaven.
--- Neither Elijah nor Enoch first came down from heaven, did they?


***
--- 14) How many angels were within the sepulcher? John 20:11-12 two, Mark 16:5 one. Just incase that they are not mutually exclusive then say that in Mark 16:6 it shows that one person was talking but in John 20:13 it shows two people talking. Now that is mutually exclusive.


Q 14. Response: --- John 20:11-12. --- Mary came first to the tomb alone, v 1, “Mary came to the tomb early, WHILE IT WAS STILL DARK.” --- and after seeing two angels she also saw, and talked to Jesus.
Mark 16:5. --- Later three ladies came, v 2, “WHEN THE SUN HAD RISEN.” --- so there is a time difference.
Peter and John came later and didn’t see any angels.
The fact that all four Gospel writers recorded it, shows that Jesus was dead, in the tomb, and the women came to embalm the body but when they got there, the stone was rolled away, and Jesus had risen.


***
--- 15) Where did Jesus first appear to the eleven disciples? In a room in Jerusalem. Luke 24:32-37 On a mountain in Galilee. Matthew 28:15-17


Q 15. Response: --- Obviously in Luke, the two disciples on the road to Emmaus, --- whom Jesus appeared to on the evening of the day He arose, --- went back to Jerusalem and found the 11, and told them. --- And suddenly Jesus stood in their midst. --- So the trip to the mountain would have been later, --- and in a day, perhaps over a few days , --- but not in the middle of the night.


***
--- 16) Where did Christ ascend from? From Mount Olives. Acts 1:9-12 From Bethany. Luke 24:50-51


Q 16. Response: --- In the Bible Dictionary it says that the Mount of Olives was about 1 mile long with four summits which were named differently.
Bethany was not far from Jerusalem because that was the home of Martha, Mary, and Lazarus, who Jesus raised from the dead. --- Jesus often visited them and perhaps stayed with them. --- If you noticed in one of the other questions, --- He was in Jerusalem, and in the evening went to Bethany.
The Bible Dictionary says that the fig tree that Jesus cursed was perhaps on the slopes of the Mount of Olives.
There is a likelihood that before Jesus left this earth that his last visit would be to his closest friends in Bethany, and then He would go with His disciples away from them and up the Mount of Olives.

Since Luke is credited with writing both the Gospel and the Book of Acts, it perhaps happened very naturally, and it says in both Scriptures that the disciples returned to Jerusalem.


Placid

[LoveforTruth]

First of all, it is important to know that if the "Bibles" of today, with all their versions and differences in the quantity of their "books" and "gospels", were in fact the Original Holy Word of GOD Almighty, then there would be no need for the Noble Quran.  But since they are corrupt, then we obviously can't consider them as GOD Almighty's Holy and Divine Words.
There existed many different Bibles during the time of the Roman Emperor, Constantine, which were widely believed in by different Christian sects in the year 312.  In other words, during the first 3 centuries of "Christianity" (300 years), many different canons with 100s of books/gospels combined existed!  That is a lot of canons, a lot of books/gospels, and a lot of time (300 years) of different Christian religions existed.   Also, Constantine's own "unified canon or bible" got lost and only small portions of it were found!  So what we have today from "Bible(s)" are not even Constantine's books.
Let us listen to the following AUDIO files from the "Banned from the Bible" documentary film by some popular historians, theologians and books' authors were the spokes people in this film.  So, like I mentioned above, the information in the AUDIO files is very reliable, authentic and objective:
1-  Constantine's unified "Bible" was permanently lost!  Only portions of it were found almost 1/2 century later.
Theologians' voices are:

• John Dominic Crossan, Author, Excavating Jesus.
  
• Dr. Marvin Meyer, Author, The Gnostic Bible.

2-  Hundreds of conflicting manuscripts existed among early Christians.
Theologians' voices are:

• Daniel Smith-Christopher, Ph.D., Hebrew Bible Studies, Loyola Marymount University.
  
• Anthea D. Butler, Ph.D., Global Christianity, Loyala Marymount University.

The different "Canons" of the Bible!

Different and conflicting variations of "gospels" and "books" that are disagreed upon by the Churches today.

The Noble Quran came to confirm Truth that exists in the Manuscripts in the different canons and to filter out Truth from falsehood in them.  Allah Almighty never claimed that the bible is fully and 100% Divine.  Islam is a witness on the Bible.  It filters out the truth from falsehood and corruption in the Bible.  The Noble Quran only recognizes the Bible as a HISTORY BOOK with errors and man's alteration in it.  Anything that agrees 100% with Islam is valid, and anything else that has even the slightest disagreement with Islam is discarded:
"Those who follow the apostle, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find mentioned in their own (scriptures),- in the law and the Gospel;- for he commands them what is just and forbids them what is evil; he allows them as lawful what is good (and pure) and prohibits them from what is bad (and impure); He releases them from their heavy burdens and from the yokes that are upon them. So it is those who believe in him, honour him, help him, and follow the light which is sent down with him,- it is they who will prosper.  (The Noble Quran, 7:157)"
"It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus) before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the criterion (of judgment be tween right and wrong).  (The Noble Quran, 3:3)"
"To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety: so judge between them by what God hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging from the Truth that hath come to thee. To each among you have we prescribed a law and an open way. If God had so willed, He would have made you a single people, but (His plan is) to test you in what He hath given you: so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to God; it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute;   (The Noble Quran, 5:48)"
"That which We have revealed to thee of the Book is the Truth,- confirming what was (revealed) before it: for God is assuredly- with respect to His Servants - well acquainted and Fully Observant.  (The Noble Quran, 35:31)"
That is why we Muslims believe in only the parts of the Bible that agree with the Noble Quran.  The parts that contradict the Noble Quran are not the Truth:
"That they rejected Faith; That they uttered against Mary A grave false charge;  That they said (in boast):  'We killed Christ Jesus The son of Mary, The Messenger of Allah.'  But they killed him not, Nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not.  Nay, Allah raised him up Unto Himself; and Allah Is Exalted in Power, Wise.  And there is none of the people of the book (Jews and Christians) But must believe in him  (Jesus) Before his death; And on the Day of Judgment He (Jesus) will be a witness Against them.   (The Noble Quran, 4:156-159)"  
Allah Almighty here declares that Christianity is no more than a man-made conjecture.  And conjecture is forbidden in the Glorious Quran.

Conjecture is forbidden in the Glorious Quran:

• "But they have no knowledge therein. They follow nothing but conjecture; and conjecture avails nothing against Truth.  (The Noble Quran, 53:28)"
  
• "And there are among them illiterates, who know not the Book, but (see therein their own) desires, and they do nothing but conjecture.  (The Noble Quran, 2:78)"
  
• "Wert thou to follow the common run of those on earth, they will lead thee away from the way of God. They follow nothing but conjecture: they do nothing but lie.  (The Noble Quran, 6:116)"
  
• "Those who give partners (to God) will say: "If God had wished, we should not have given partners to Him nor would our fathers; nor should we have had any taboos." So did their ancestors argue falsely, until they tasted of Our wrath. Say: "Have ye any (certain) knowledge? If so, produce it before us. Ye follow nothing but conjecture: ye do nothing but lie."  (The Noble Quran, 6:148)"
  
• "And they say: "What is there but our life in this world? We shall die and we live, and nothing but time can destroy us." But of that they have no knowledge: they merely conjecture:  (The Noble Quran, 45:24)"
  
• "These are nothing but names which ye have devised,- ye and your fathers,- for which God has sent down no authority (whatever). They follow nothing but conjecture and what their own souls desire!- Even though there has already come to them Guidance from their Lord!  (The Noble Quran, 53:23)"

"Know they not Allah Knoweth what they conceal and what they reveal? And there are among them illiterates, who know not the Book, but (see therein their own) desires, and they do nothing but conjecture.  Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say: 'This is from Allah,' To traffic with it for a miserable price! Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby.   (The Noble Quran, 2:77-79)"
"O Apostle! let not those grieve thee, who race each other into unbelief: (whether it be) among those who say "We believe" with their lips but whose hearts have no faith; or it be among the Jews,- men who will listen to any lie,- will listen even to others who have never so much as come to thee. They change the words from their (right) times and places: they say, 'If ye are given this, take it, but if not, beware!' If any one's trial is intended by God, thou hast no authority in the least for him against God. For such - it is not God's will to purify their hearts. For them there is disgrace in this world, and in the Hereafter a heavy punishment.  (The Noble Quran, 5:41)"
"But because of their breach of their covenant, We cursed them, and made their hearts grow hard; they change the words from their (right) places and forget a good part of the message that was sent them, nor wilt thou cease to find them- barring a few - ever bent on (new) deceits: but forgive them, and overlook (their misdeeds): for God loveth those who are kind. (The Noble Quran, 5:13)"
"Say: 'O People of the Book (i.e., Jews and Christians)!   Come to common terms as between us and you:  That we worship none but Allah; that we associate no partners with Him; that we erect not, from among ourselves, Lords and patrons other than Allah.'  If then they turn back, say ye: 'Bear witness that we (at least) are Muslims (bowing to Allah's Will).'   (The Noble Quran, 3:64)"
Narrated Ubaidullah:  "Ibn 'Abbas said, "Why do you ask the people of the scripture about anything while your Book (Quran) which has been revealed to Allah's Apostle is newer and the latest? You read it pure, undistorted and unchanged, and Allah has told you that the people of the scripture (Jews and Christians) changed their scripture and distorted it, and wrote the scripture with their own hands and said, 'It is from Allah,' to sell it for a little gain. Does not the knowledge which has come to you prevent you from asking them about anything? No, by Allah, we have never seen any man from them asking you regarding what has been revealed to you!"  (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Holding Fast to the Qur'an and Sunnah, Volume 9, Book 92, Number 461)"

Edited by LoveforTruth, 26 April 2012 - 03:44 PM.

[placid]

Hi LoveforTruth,

You are quite far from truth in this long lecture.
Quote from Post 43:
First of all, it is important to know that if the "Bibles" of today, with all their versions and differences in the quantity of their "books" and "gospels", were in fact the Original Holy Word of GOD Almighty, then there would be no need for the Noble Quran. But since they are corrupt, then we obviously can't consider them as GOD Almighty's Holy and Divine Words.

Response: --- So the writer of this, whom you apparently agree with, doesn’t accept the confirmation of the Former Scriptures, from Gabriel and God?
--- Then by contradiction, in another place, he includes the verse in 3:3 that says that the Quran ‘confirms’ the former Scriptures?

The 39 Books of the OT and the 27 Books of the NT were established in the second and third centuries and confirmed by the Churches before the year 400 when Jerome produced the Latin Vulgate which was the same Scriptures used through to the 16th century, when they were translated to English.

And in this verse 7:157, the writer used a translation that says:
“the unlettered Prophet, whom they find mentioned in their own (scriptures),-
--- While other translations say:
--- “Those who follow the messenger, the Prophet who can neither read nor write, whom they will find described in the Torah and the Gospel which are with them. He will enjoin on them that which is right and forbid them that which is wrong. He will make lawful for them all good things and prohibit for them only the foul; and he will relieve them of their burden and the fetters that they used to wear. Then those who believe in him, and honor him, and help him, and follow the light which is sent down with him: they are the successful.”
--- Notice, it says, ‘described in the Torah and the Gospel --- WHICH ARE WITH THEM’  

So--- this verifies that the Torah and the Gospel were --- WITH THEM --- in 625 AD.
--- So these were the ‘former Scriptures’ that Gabriel was approving.
--- Approving them --- IS NOT rejecting them. --- The writer says, “, then there would be no need for the Noble Quran. But since they are corrupt.” --- when did they become corrupt?  
The Scriptures are the same, from 225 years before Muhammad, as they are today.

--- The idea of “corruption’ is only in the mindset of the critics, with the extreme exaggerations in their anti-Christian writings.
--- And if the Quran ‘explains’ or ‘corrects’ the former Scriptures, --- where does it do that?
--- Gabriel mentioned no changes, or corruption, did he?

So you  disagree with Gabriel, that ‘the Quran confirmed the former Scriptures,’ --- which have had no opportunity to be changed after 625 AD, have they?

--- (By the way, Constantine was the Roman Emperor from 306-337, and he supposedly converted to Christianity. --- But he was as much a philosopher as a Christian so what he wrote and taught was not necessarily Scriptural, so it’s as well that none of it has been preserved, --- He had no influence on the Scriptures, which were confirmed before his time, --- but he had great influence in the Roman Church.)

So the FORMER SCRIPTURES that were there on hand in Muhammad’s time, were approved by Gabriel, --- from God, to Muhammad.

So, you see, by disbelieving this, you discredit the word of the angel Gabriel, and therefore, you discredit God. And in so doing, you discredit the Quran in favor of your hadiths, is that not right?

--- And if we continue in the verse 7:157, it says, “He will enjoin on them that which is right and forbid them that which is wrong. He will make lawful for them all good things and prohibit for them only the foul; --- Then those who believe in him, and honor him, and help him, and follow the light which is sent down with him: they are the successful.”

You have ignored these verses that give the Christian response, have you not?
5:82. Strongest among men in enmity to the believers wilt thou find the Jews and Pagans; and nearest among them in love to the believers wilt thou find those who say, "We are Christians": because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant.
83. And when they listen to the revelation received by the Apostle, thou wilt see their eyes overflowing with tears, for they recognize the truth: they pray: "Our Lord! we believe; write us down among the witnesses.
84. "What cause can we have not to believe in God and the truth which has come to us, seeing that we long for our Lord to admit us to the company of the righteous?"
85. And for this their prayer hath God rewarded them with gardens, with rivers flowing underneath, - their eternal home. Such is the recompense of those who do good.

So, you see, the believing Christians recognized the truth of Muhammad’s revelations, and they were in harmony with him, --- and would receive their heavenly reward.

If you add this verse from Surah 3, which speaks of physical death before His ascension, --- It gives Christians the blessing of Muhammad, (or Gabriel and God).
55. Remember the time when Allah said' `O Jesus, I will cause thee to die a natural death and will raise thee to Myself, and will clear thee of the charges of those who disbelieve, and will exalt those who follow thee above those who disbelieve, until the Day of Resurrection.

So, you see why I believe in Muhammad and the Quran.


Placid

[LoveforTruth]

Here is a letter from Saint Jerôme ackowledging that he's done many falsifications of the gospel. Please google translate :



La lettre-préface adressée par saint Jérôme, auteur de la Vulgate, au pape Damase, au IV° siècle, préfaçant l'amalgame et la rectification des évangiles qu'il venait de terminer, représente incontestablement un document qui dérange, un document qui met terme à leur dite "révélation divine" ou "sacralité", prises comme prétexte pour l'évangélisation du monde.

Nul n'ignore combien ces textes suscitèrent de critiques et de  débats, de sorte qu'au XVI° siècle, le concile de Trente a dû mettre fin à ces controverses et les imposa disant que : "Dieu est l'auteur unique de l'un et de l'autre" Testament, et de terminer ce décret en précisant : "Si  quelqu'un ne reçoit pas ces livres pour sacrés et canoniques dans leur totalité, avec toutes leurs parties, tels qu'on a coutume de les lire dans l'Église catholique et qu'on les trouve dans la vieille édition de la Vulgate latine; s'il méprise en connaissance de cause et de propos délibérée les traditions susdites : qu'ils soit anathème"  (Conciles Œcuméniques, t. II, p. 663).  a

Comme les débats concernant leur véracité ne cessèrent point, le I° concile du Vatican (1869-1870) a dû "nuancer" le décret du concile de Trente, en précisant que "Ces livres de l'Ancien et du Nouveau Testament tels qu'ils sont énumérés dans le décret de ce concile et tels qu'on les trouve dans l'ancienne édition latine de la Vulgate, doivent être reçus pour sacrés et canoniques dans leur intégrité, avec toutes leurs parties (…) parce qu'écrits sous l'inspiration du Saint-Esprit, ils ont Dieu pour auteur et ont été transmis comme tels à l'Église" (id. p. 806). Puis précise dans le canon N° 4 concernant la révélation : "Si quelqu'un ne reçoit pas les livres de la sainte Écriture comme sacrés et canoniques, dans leur intégrité et avec toutes leurs parties, tels qu'ils sont énumérés par le saint concile de Trente, ou s'il nie qu'ils soient divinement inspirés, qu'il soit anathèmes" ! (id. p. 810).

Au concile Vatican II (1965) s'opère un changement catégorique. Au chapitre III, sous le titre concernant l'inspiration divine, on trouve : "En effet, les livres entiers tant de l'Ancien que du Nouveau Testament, avec toutes leurs parties, la sainte Mère Église, de par la foi apostolique, les tient pour sacrés et canoniques, parce que rédigés sous l'inspiration de l'Esprit Saint, ils ont Dieu pour auteur et qu'ils ont été transmis comme tels à l'Église elle-même. Mais pour composer les Livres sacrés Dieu a choisi des hommes, et il a eu recours à leur service dans le plein usage de leurs facultés et de leurs forces propres, de façon à ce que, lui-même agissant en eux et par eux, ils transmissent par écrit, en vrais auteurs, tout ce que lui-même voulait et rien d'autre que cela. Dès lors, puisque tout ce que les auteurs inspirés ou hagiographes affirment doit être tenu pour affirmé par l'Esprit Saint, il faut par conséquent professer que les livres de l'Écriture enseignent fermement, fidèlement et sans erreur la vérité que Dieu a voulu voir consignée dans les saintes Lettres en vue de notre salut"  (id. p. 976).

Quelques lignes plus loin on lit : "Pour découvrir l'intention des hagiographes, il faut, entre autres choses, prendre aussi en considération les genres littéraires".  A la page suivante on trouve au canon 15 : "Bien que ces Livres contiennent aussi des choses imparfaites et provisoires, ils font cependant preuve d'une véritable pédagogie divine". Et à la page suivante, canon 19,  on lit la confirmation suivante : "La sainte Mère Église a tenu et tient fermement et avec la plus grande constance que les quatre Évangiles mentionnés, dont elle affirme sans hésiter l'historicité, transmettent fidèlement ce que Jésus, le Fils de Dieu, du temps de sa vie parmi les hommes, a réellement fait et enseigné"… Et,  contrairement à l'habitude, ce concile Vatican II ne lance point d'anathèmes !

Avant de présenter le texte-aveu de saint Jérôme, il serait utile de faire la récapitulation des données principales de ces décrets conciliaires qui soulignent  les points suivants : de Dieu, auteur unique de l'un et de l'autre Testament, de l'ancienne édition latine de la Vulgate, au concile de Trente, un changement s'opère et on trouve au I° concile du Vatican qu'ils sont écrits sous l'inspiration du Saint-Esprit, bien qu'ils aient toujours Dieu pour auteur, mais il n'est plus "l'unique", puisque le Saint-Esprit lui vient en aide. Pourtant, dans le dogme de la Trinité ils sont à pieds d'égalité. Comment se fait-il donc que Dieu, auteur, reçoit l'inspiration du Saint-Esprit, qui est censé lui être égale ?
Avec Vatican II on trouve la même constatation précédente, plus une conjonction : Mais. Un "mais" qui laisse glisser : des hommes choisis, auxquels Dieu a eu recours, qui transmirent, comme vrais auteurs, tout ce que lui-même voulait et rien d'autre. Des auteurs qui sont aussi des hagiographes, qui écrivent et enseignent fermement, fidèlement et sans erreur la vérité que Dieu a voulu consignée dans ces Textes, qui se révèlent être aussi "des genres littéraires" ! Le commentaire semble superflu…

C'est pourquoi il est choquant de voir le grand écart qu'il y a entre des textes imposés pendant des siècles, avec anathèmes et autres, et ce qu'en dit l'auteur même de la Vulgate. Ci-suit la première partie de la lettre-préface :
" Vous voulez qu'avec les matériaux d'un ancien ouvrage j'en refasse un nouveau; que je me pose comme arbitre dans l'examen des textes de l'Écriture répandus dans le monde; vous voulez, en un mot, que j'explique les variantes qu'on y trouve, et que je signale ses passages concordants avec la version grecque la plus authentique. C'est une pieuse entreprise, mais une présomption dangereuse que de s'établir juge des autres, quand soi-même on doit avoir pour juge l'opinion générale; que de prétendre changer la langue des vieillards, ramener le monde, déjà vieux, au bégaiement de l'enfance. En effet, quel est l'homme de nos jours, savant ou non savant, qui, se décidant à prendre en main notre ouvrage , et voyant discréditer le texte dont il se sert habituellement et dans lequel il a appris à lire, ne se récrie aussitôt, et ne me traite de faussaire, de sacrilège, dont l'audace impie n'a point reculé devant des additions, des changements et des corrections à des textes consacrés par le temps?

Contre de semblables reproches une double consolation m'est offerte; la première, c'est que cette mission m'a été confiée par vous ; la seconde, c'est que, d'après le témoignage même de ceux qui nous attaquent, il ne pourrait y avoir de vérité complète dans les ouvrages où on ne peut signaler des variantes. En effet, si nos adversaires pensent que les exemplaires latins sont dignes de confiance, qu'ils désignent lesquels; car il existe presque autant d'originaux que d'exemplaires. S'ils pensent, au contraire, que la vérité ne saurait être découverte que par la comparaison des différents textes , pourquoi trouvent-ils mauvais que j'aie la prétention de corriger, tout en remontant aux sources grecques, les parties du texte qui ont été ou mal comprises par des interprètes ignorants, ou tronquées, dans de mauvaises intentions, par des correcteurs inhabiles et présomptueux, ou surchargées d'additions et altérées par de paresseux copistes ? "

Quand un auteur avoue avoir changé la langue d'un texte discrédité, contenant déjà des variantes, sachant qu'il sera traité de faussaire, de sacrilège, parce que jouissant d'une audace impie qui ne l'a point fait reculer devant les changements et les corrections qu'il a dû faire, dans les parties du texte mal comprises, ou qui sont tronquées par les mauvaises intentions de ceux qui les ont écrits ou copiés, et qui sont surchargés d'additions et altérés par de paresseux copistes, avec un aveu pareil on n'a plus le droit d'imposer la religion qui en découle pour évangéliser le monde ! Surtout quand  tous les travaux récents assurent, outre la vérité de ce que dit saint Jérôme, un nombre inimaginable de contradictions ou d'anachronismes historiques.

Ci-suit la photocopie de la lettre-préface, écrite par saint Jérôme au pape Damase, pour quiconque aimerait vérifier le texte. Le livre se trouve à la Bibliothèque National François Mitterrand, dans les éditions des Bénédictines, Paris, 1693 :

http://16a85.skyrock...-Jerome-au.html

Edited by LoveforTruth, 28 April 2012 - 01:20 AM.

[LoveforTruth]

Here is the real Gospel acknowledged by the Holy Quran :

http://www.al-islam....-majlisi/29.htm


According to reliable and authentic hadith Imam as-Sadiq said that some of the advices and admonitions that Allah reveled to ‘Isa are:

‘O ‘Isa! I am your Lord and the Lord of your ancestors. My Name is Ahad (The Only One). I am the Only One Who has created everything myself. All things are My creations and of My making. All of them will return to Me on the Day of Resurrection.

O ‘Isa! You are the Blessed Messiah. Through My Command you mould a bird with clay and make it alive. You raise up the dead by My Order. Keep up your love for Me. None can be saved from My chastisement except the one who turns to Me.

O ‘Isa! I admonish you like the admonisher Who is kind and Merciful to you. My Mercy and love for you has become incumbent ever since you asked from Me some things which pleased Me. So I have made you Graceful in abundance wherever you be. I give witness that you are My slave (creature) and the son of My maid (Maryam).

O ‘Isa! Imagine Me with you all the time, like everything that comes to your heart. Always remember Me for enriching you in the Hereafter. Attain My nearness by performing desirable and also optional deeds and rely on Me so that I may fulfill your intentions. Never trust anyone besides Me because (in that case) you leave Your affairs to him and then I will not help you.

O ‘Isa! Tolerate patiently whatever befalls you from Me and remain pleased and content on My decisions. Be as I like you to be. Surely I like that people should obey Me and not disobey My commands.

O ‘Isa! keep my remembrance on your tongue and keep your heart full of my love all the time.

O ‘Isa! Remain alert and awake when people are unmindful and asleep. Relate stories of My wisdom to people.

O ‘Isa! long for My Reward and be frightened of My Chastisement and make your heart dead in the matter of earthly desires and fear none but Me.

O ‘Isa, “Pass your nights in pleasing Me and fast in the daytime to experience thirst, for the presentation of your needs on the Day of Resurrection.

O ‘Isa! Settle disputes of people as I have commanded you to wishing well for them and maintain My Order among them. Doubtlessly I have sent to you a Book which cures the heart of all Satanic doubts.

O ‘Isa: I truthfully tell you that not one of my creature puts faith in (believes in) Me except the one who weeps due to My fear and only he fears Me who is hopeful of My Reward. I make you Witness (and announce) that such People will remain safe from My Chastisement so long as they do not change My Way.

O ‘Isa: O son of the virgin lady Maryam  who had disconnected herself from the whole world and had attachment only for Me! Weep on your condition like the one who weeps at the moment of departing from his near and dear ones, and who regards the (material) world as his enemy and who gives it (earthly desires) up for those who love it (worldly life) and like the one whose longing is for nothing but the Reward of the Hereafter which is only with the Only One Allah.

O ‘Isa: In spite of giving up worldly desires, as advised by Me, do talk politely with people, salute (say Salaam) everyone you meet. Even when good men are unmindful you should remain awake and alert keeping in mind the Day of Judgment when severe trembling will shake all hearts, when neither relatives nor riches will be of any help.

O ‘Isa: apply the powder antimony of sorrow and grief to your eyes when those who do not believe in the Truth are laughing.

O ‘Isa: What a success when you remain fearful (only of Me) and patient when you will attain all that I promise to the patient.

O ‘Isa: continue to make daily deductions from your worldly attachments so that the final departure may not be difficult for you. Taste the pleasure of worldly life which have been withdrawn. I tell you truthfully that you have at your disposal only that time and chance and day (for endeavoring) on which you are alive. So be content on getting from the worldly life which is absolutely necessary and go on toiling for enriching your life in the other world (Hereafter). Suffice to have rough clothing and tasteless food as you know what is to be the end (of a dress). All of your occupations are being recorded, that is, what you obtained, from where did you get it and in what you spent it.

O ‘Isa: I will question you on the Day of the Resurrection Day. So be kind and merciful to the poor and the weak as I have been Kind and Merciful to you. Never be harsh toward the orphan.

O ‘Isa: Keep up weeping on your condition in your prayer and keep your legs busy walking toward the prayer house. Continue to make Me hear your pleasant voice full of my Remembrance as I have showered many bounties on you.
O ‘Isa! I have destroyed many people due to their sins but I have saved you.
O ‘Isa! Be kind to the weak and open your eyes looking up and ask only from Me because I am very near to you. Do not pray to Me but with weeping and empty your heart keeping only Me therein. I will answer your call if you will call me thus.

O ‘Isa: I have created this transient world for rewarding and not for punishing those who preceded you nor to avenge their disobedience. Rather I have postponed both reward and chastisement until Resurrection which is eternal and unendingly permanent.

O ‘Isa You will be no more and I am everlasting. Your life is from Me and your return too is towards Me. The time of your death is in my control and you are to return unto Me and your accountability is before Me. So ask whatever you ask from Me and from none else and beg from Me in a better manner so that I may accept your prayer in a better way.

O ‘Isa: How big is the number of people (almost innumerable) but how few of them are patient, like the small number of fruitful trees compared to the fruitless ones. So you should not be deceived by seeing a green and fresh tree until you taste its fruit, that is, do not be deceived by the apparent goodness of people unless you test their morals and deeds.

O ‘Isa: You should not be deceived by the one who has rebelled against me (and is well to do), who is eating sustenance provided by Me and yet is worshipping others; who, while in trouble, calls and invokes Me and when I answer his prayers reverts to the same sin of polytheism, rises against me and becomes liable to My anger and chastisement. By My Majesty and Grandeur, I will catch him in such a severe way that he will never find any escape and where will he ever go leaving the boundaries of my earth and heavens?

O ‘Isa! tell the oppressors of The Israelites not to call me (not to invoke) while they are holding prohibited things in their arms and have placed idols on their dinning tables, that is, they have turned their wealth and their sons etc. into idols (deities) and have replaced My pleasure by their pleasure. I swear that I do answer the call of the one who invokes Me but those who Call Me in the aforesaid wrong way only earn My condemnation and curse until they disperse.

O ‘Isa how often I invite them towards Me but they are always found negligent (though I look at them mercifully). Yet they pay no attention and the word of Truth gets no room in their hearts and their souls remain in the dark. Thus they become liable to My chastisement due to their sinfulness though (outwardly) they love the faithful.

O ‘Isa: Close your eyes for things which give no benefit but only loss. Often it so happens that a man looks at a thing (intentionally) and such look sews seeds of illegal desires in his heart and those desires finally kill him.

O ‘Isa: Be kind to My servants just as you wish servants to be kind to you and remember at all times and always keep in mind that you will have to depart from your near and dear ones one day and never indulge in meaningless plays and games because games pollute hearts. Do not forget Me because the neglecter gets away from Me. Remember Me
through your good behavior and moral deeds so that I may keep you in mind for a merciful reward.

O ‘Isa: Seek My pardon after committing a sin (error) and invite the repeaters toward Me and rest assured that I do accept repentance. Be near to the Believers love fully and ask them to invoke Me together with you. Never be carefree about the oppressed because the cry of the oppressed rises up to reach Me. By my Holiness, I open up all doors of the heavens for the prayers of the oppressed which I do accept though it may take some time.

O ‘Isa: Remember that company of bad people makes them wayward and a bad companion is a killer. So be careful whose company you adopt. Always select the faithful brothers for your company.

O ‘Isa: Do whatever you can for your own self until you are not dead. No one else will ever perform good deeds for you. Verily I give manifold reward for every good deed. Surely the sins of the sinner destroys him. Make haste in performing good deeds and go on toiling for there are many meetings which deliver the audience from Hell.

O ‘Isa: Get disconnected from the mortal world and observe the path signs of your predecessors (are they traceable or not?). Call them either loudly or silently and see whether they hear or respond. Take admonition from their events and remember that you too, will together with all living ones, join them (the dead).

O ‘Isa! Tell those who disobey me and rise against me and who keep company of the sinners and who are asking for my anger and who are awaiting their destruction that, very soon, they also will be annihilated along with others.

O Son of Maryam! What a good fortune for you if you follow the path commanded by the Lord. He is very kind and Merciful to you and began to give you His bounties even before you asked. He is there to help you in every difficulty and trouble. So never disobey Him.

O ‘Isa! Verily it is not permissible for you to disobey Me, because I have promised for you the same thing which I had promised the earlier Prophets, and I am a witness to it.

O ‘Isa No other thing except My religion, is dearer and precious in My view in the entire creation No reward is higher than My Mercy, for any one.

O ‘Isa! Cleanse the apparent filth with water and remove the internal impurities through good deeds and worship because your return is to Me. O ‘Isa! I bestowed upon you My reward fully without polluting it with any trouble. It was for your own benefit that I asked for a loan from you but you were miserly until you were destroyed.[138]

O ‘Isa! Adorn yourself with your Religion and with your friendship with the poor and the needy and walk on earth with humility and offer prayer on any portion of the earth because it is clean.

O ‘Isa! Remain ever ready for My worship because the happening which is to happen (that is death) is near and recite My Book after making Wudhu’ (ablution) and cleanliness. And recite it to Me in a sorrowful voice.

O ‘Isa! There is nothing with an everlasting tastefulness and there is no luxury which will not depart from the indulgent in luxury.

O ‘Isa! If your eyes can see the things which I have written (reserved) for My friends your heart will melt and you will die longing for them. The house of the Hereafter is like a house wherein live the angels who are near to Allah with pious people who are safe from all the dangers of the Day of Judgment. The bounties possessed by the residents of that residence never change nor vanish.

O Son of Maryam! Long with those who long for gaining the possession of the house in the Hereafter because that place is on top of all the ambitions of the ambitious and its sight is very pleasing to the eyes.

O son of Maryam! How lucky will you be if you do good deeds for getting entry to that House along with your ancestors Adam and Ibrahim and (that house) is like a garden which has bounties incomparable with the bounties of this world and from there nobody can shift you. I give such award to the pious.

O ‘Isa! rush toward Me along with those who rush for fear of fire, the flames whereof keep on leaping forever and which will be full of all sorts of tortures. Cool air will have no passage therein. There is no pain or trouble which will not be in that fire. Some places therein are darker than the darkest night. Only he is successful who is saved from that fire. Those who cannot escape it can never attain salvation. That place is for the merciless oppressors who are driven out of the Mercy of the Most Merciful Allah. It is for every bad tempered egoistic and proud person.

O ‘Isa! Hell is a very bad place and it is for those who tend toward it and that place is for the oppressors to taste the severest chastisement. I command you to save yourself from every evil of your soul and to fear My anger and confess that I have created you, that you are My slave that I shaped your figure and I have sent to you out of My Mercy and kindness on earth.

O ‘Isa! Just as it is not possible that there can be two tongues in one mouth and two souls in one chest likewise there cannot be two loves and two thoughts in one heart. So remove love for everyone and everything else other than Me from your heart and purify your deeds only for My sake.

O ‘Isa! Do not awaken others while you yourself are asleep in negligence and do not prevent others from playfulness when you are busy in it. Restrain your heart from the killer desires of the world and its passions just as people restrain a child from (harmful) milk. Keep distance from every wish that may keep you away from Me because you are holding the position of being My honest messenger. So continue to fear Me because the more one is nearer to Me the more he fears Me. It is essential that you should be lowly and meek when you worship Me. Your heart must be full of humility when you admonish people to fear Me. You should remain awake when others are asleep.

O ‘Isa! This is My admonition for you so accept it and ask whatever you ask from Me because only I am the Nourisher of all the worlds.

O ‘Isa! when my servant shows patience for my sake when he is under pressure and in trouble I am near him and I reserve My Reward for him. I am sufficient to take revenge from those who disobey Me when My oppressed servant calls Me. Where after all can the oppressors escape from Me?

O ‘Isa! Make Sajdah (prostration) properly. Live with wisdom and intelligence wherever you be and continue to seek knowledge from Me.

O ‘Isa! Forward good deeds to Me so that I may reserve them for you. Hold fast My Revelations and admonitions (act according to them) because therein lies the health of the hearts.

O ‘Isa! My fear must deter you from making a fraud. Fear My planning. Do not forget My remembrance if at all you ever commit a sin in solitude.

O ‘Isa! make a reckoning of your soul constantly, as your return is to me, so that you may gain my reward reserved for the doers of good deeds. Being the Best of bestowers I increase the rewards of good deeds.

O ‘Isa! I have created you through Maryam  without a father, by My Word. It was according to my command that Archangel Gabriel blew the Sprit, which I had selected into Maryam  and thus were you born, and are now walking on earth. All this was caused in view of some strategies which were in My knowledge since eternity.

O ‘Isa! Zakariyya is like your father, He was looking after your mother and observing heavenly provisions in front of her in the hall of worship. And among all My creation, Yahya is like you. I had given him to his mother at an advanced age when her husband had no more strength of producing a child. I wish that My Might and Power should appear for him and similarly My might should be manifested through your birth because I am able to create anything in anyway I like. Remember that only that person should be most beloved in your eyes that obeys and fears Me most.

O ‘Isa! Remain awake and do not be disappointed of My Mercy and with those who are busy glorifying Me. Continue mentioning My Holiness (Needlessness) by chanting My Holy Names.

O ‘Isa! How are My servants denying Me when all of them are under My control and they are walking on My earth and are unmindful of My blessings and Bounties and are befriending My enemies. Verily the unbelievers are being destroyed in this manner.

O ‘Isa! This world is a stingy prison and it is made to appear beautiful through some things for people and to attain that which oppressors and merciless people kill one another for. Always remain aloof from the world because its bounty is to vanish and there are but few comforts therein.

O ‘Isa! invoke me when you prepare to take rest at night, you will find me near you at that time also and call me with sincere love and faith as I am the best of hearers. I answer the prayers of those who pray. Fear only me and also frighten my slaves from my chastisement maybe they will refrain from their evil deeds so that if they ruin themselves they will do so knowingly.

O ‘Isa! if you are afraid of killer animals and if you fear death then why do you not fear Me when it is I who has created them all? O ‘Isa! Sovereignty belongs only to Me. I am the Real Ruler. If you will obey Me I will admit you in my Paradise and keep you besides the pious.

O ‘Isa! If I am displeased with you the pleasure of anyone else will not give me any benefit and if I am pleased with you the displeasure of anyone else cannot harm you at all.

O ‘Isa! Remember Me in solitude so that I may remember you with my secret hidden mercies. Also remember Me openly so that I may remember you in the gatherings of the heavenly angels which will be better than worldly gatherings.

O ‘Isa! Remember Me like the drowning ones who do not find any helper.

O ‘Isa! Never swear by Me falsely because it makes My throne tremble with anger. O ‘Isa! the life of this world is very limited and ambitions very lengthy. I have houses which are better than the ones made by man.

O ‘Isa! Ask the oppressors of The Israelites what will they do when I bring forth for you the Book which will disclose your hidden secrets and all that you were doing (in the world)? O ‘Isa! Tell the hot-headed and rebellious The Israelites, whether they are washing and cleaning their faces to show me their pride or when they are transgressing me and using perfumes to please the world lovers, that their souls are decomposed like rotten dead bodies!

O ‘Isa! tell them to cut off their nails by unlawful earnings and to deafen their ears to hearing ugly and obscene voices and to come to Me after cleaning their hearts because I do not want the beauty of their faces but want the piety of their souls. O ‘Isa! Experience happiness over good deeds which make Me happy and weep over sins which cause Me to be angry. Wish for others that which you should like others to do to you. Do not wish for others what you wish others should not do to you If somebody hits you on the right side of your face present its left side too to him. Gain nearness to Me by behaving lovingly to others as much as you can and keep distance from the utterly ignorant and the fools and do not indulge in arguments with them.

O ‘Isa! Be kind and polite towards those who are doing good deeds and participate in their good deeds and be witness to them. Tell the oppressive The Israelites that: O friends of the evildoers! If you do not refrain from your misdeeds I will metamorphose you in the shape of monkeys and pigs.

O ‘Isa! Tell the rebels among the Israelites that while the knowledgeable and the wise and the virtuous people run away from sinful acts, you are proud of your bad characters. Have you found out any decree of salvation from My chastisement? Or are you willfully inviting My anger? In that case I also swear by My Holy Self that I will punish you with a chastisement which will become a lesson for the coming generations.

So, O son of the virgin Maryam! O the one who remains away from worldliness! I command you as I would My beloved Ahmad who is the leader of Prophets who is the owner of red-faced radiant camels and whose radiance will enlighten the entire world. That pious hearted Prophet will become angry (upon the world-worshippers) for My sake. He is extremely modest and very kind-hearted.

Verily he is a mercy for all the worlds and Doubtlessly, on the Day of Judgment, he will be, in My sight, the best of all the descendants of Adam. His position will be most high in My view and he will be nearest to Me among all the past Prophets. He will take birth in the Arab land and without learning to read and write from anybody he will be appointed Prophet with knowledge of all the past and future sciences. He will propagate My religion to the people of the world and tolerate all kinds of troubles for gaining My pleasure and will fight with the polytheists for protecting My religion (the Divine way of Life).

O ‘Isa! I command you to inform The Israelites about his coming and order that all of them should testify to him, believe in his Prophethood, follow him and help him. His name is Muhammad .

He will be My Messenger for the entire population of the world. His position will be most high in My Eyes and it will be incumbent on Me to concede to his intercession more than all others. How fortunate is that Prophet and how high the position of the people who will remain steadfast on his faith properly at the time of their death.

All the residents of the world will praise that Prophet and his followers and all the dwellers of the heavens will pray for his pardon. He is the honest trustee of My Books (Messages) and he is blessed. He is cleansed of all undesirable habits and bad needs and is entirely sinless.

He is the best of all of My earlier and latter Prophets. He will be appointed in the last age. When he arrives in the world, the heavens will rain mercy on earth and the earth will throw (sprout) out all kinds of bounties and adorations. I will give abundance in whatever he does. He will marry a number of women. He will reside in Makkah where Ibrahim has raised the structure of Ka‘bah.

O ‘Isa! his religion is easy to follow. His Kiblah (direction of prayers) will be Ka‘bah. He is among My selected servitors. I am with him. What should I say about him! For him is the heavenly spring of Kauthar and the best clothing of the gardens of Eden. He will live in the best style of living and will depart from the world attaining martyrdom.

In the Resurrection Day for him, will be the spring of pure drink extending from Makkah to the point of the rising sun. Around that spring will be as many glasses as the stars shining in the heavens and as many pitchers as are the particles on earth and the water of that Hauz of Kauthar will have the best tastes of all kinds of heavenly fruits and drinks. One who will sip only a drop from it will never feel thirsty, I will appoint him after you and there will be a considerable distance between your time and his time. His outward and his inward will be the same. His deeds will be like his words. He will not ask anybody to do a thing unless he did it himself. His religion will require struggle both in ease and in trouble. Dwellers of cities will obey him and the king of Rome (Byzantine) will bow down before him and his father Ibrahim’s religion. He will recite the Name of Allah before eating and will say Salaam (Salute) before meeting anyone. He will offer prayers at a time when others will be asleep (night). For him there will be five obligatory prayers during day and night. His prayers will begin with Allahu Akbar (Allah is the Greatest) and will end with Salaam (peace). At the time of every prayer they will give Azaan (Call for prayers) for all to attend and people will offer prayers in a row like the angels. This Prophet’s soul will be soft and full of fear of Allah. There will be light in his heart and Truth on his tongue. He will live truthfully wherever he may be. He will be an orphan and will be distinct among the entire creation. He will live with (in) his community for a period of time. People will not recognize his greatness and will not appreciate his position. His heart will remain awake when his eyes will be asleep. The clothing (dress) of Shafa’ah (intercession) befits only him. The period of his people will be nearer to the Day of Judgment. When his people swear allegiance to him My Mercy will remain over his hand. Whoever will break that loyalty will oppress himself. I will fulfill my promise of giving paradise to the one who will remain loyal to him. So give orders to the rebellious The Israelites that they should not remove his name from their scriptures and must not make changes in his attributes mentioned by Me in their Books (Divine), and to convey My Salaam to him as his status will be very high in the Hereafter.
O ‘Isa! I have commanded to you those deeds which will bring you nearer to Me and I have asked you to keep distance from all those deeds prohibited to you for it can take you away from Me. So now do what is in your interest.
O ‘Isa! Apparently the world is sweet. I have fixed for you the duty of obeying Me in the world and of refraining from whatever I have denied to you. Obtain from the world whatever I have given you out of My Grace. Keep an eye on your deeds like a sinner and do not look at the deeds of others like thy Lord. Lead your life in the world like an austere person and avoid earthly joys. Do not tilt towards them as they will destroy you.
O ‘Isa! Contemplate and observe all around the world and ponder over the end of the oppressors. O ‘Isa! Whatever advice I have given you is only for your benefit and all of My words are Truth. I am the Lord who reveals the Truth and tell you truthfully that if you disobey me despite warning then there will be none who can help to save you from My Chastisement.
O ‘Isa! Keep your heart servile and, in the worldly life, look only at him who is lower than you and be thankful to me. In the world do not look at him who is higher than you in earthly matters and always keep in mind that the head[139] of every error and sin is admiration for material things Therefore, do not befriend the world because I do not love the world.
O ‘Isa! Keep your heart happy through My Remembrance and remember Me in solitude and remember that I admire weeping very much and so also repentance as you are doing in My Presence. It is essential that while worshipping Me you should be lively and not spiritless.[140]
O ‘Isa! Never make anyone (or anything) a partner of mine while worshipping me and fear My anger. Do not be proud of your physical strength and health and strength and do not make yourself the centre of attention in the world because the world is like a shade which passes away very soon and the incoming (shade) is also like the one which has disappeared leaving no sign. If a short length of it has at all remained that too will be no more very soon similarly. Therefore make the maximum effort in doing good and be with the Truth to the best of your ability even if people tear you into pieces or burn you alive. In short, after recognizing Me never turn into a disbeliever and an ignorant.
O ‘Isa! Continue weeping earnestly in My Presence and keep your heart full of My fear. O ‘Isa! Invoke Me and only Me in times of trouble because it is I who hears the call, who accepts and answers prayers and I am the best of the Merciful beings.’”
As authentically recorded Imam al-Ridha said that ‘Isa told his Hawaris: O The Israelites! Do not feel sorry over what you lose from the worldly things so far as your faith is safe. As you see the world-lovers do not feel sorry if their Religion is lost so long as their worldly (material) belongings are safe.
It is mentioned in reliable books that ‘Isa said, Very lucky are those who are kind to one another. They will earn Allah’s Kindness in the Hereafter. How fortunate are those who are reforming people as they will attain nearness to their Lord on the Day of Reckoning. How blessed are those who purify their hearts of immorality as they will gain My special Favor on the Day of Judgment. How good are those who maintain humility during their worldly life as they will be allotted royal seats in the other life. Lucky indeed are those who remained penniless and poor in the earthly life as the kingdom of Heaven will be theirs. Really happy are those whose worldly life was full of sorrow and unhappiness as in the Resurrection Day they will enjoy all sorts of luxuries.
Auspicious are those who, due to their humility, remain hungry and thirsty in the world as they will drink the heavenly drinks. Very fortunate are those who suffer bad words despite being guiltless and who keep their patience as they will get the kingdom of Heaven. What should I say about your fortune, if people are jealous of you, abusing you and making false allegations against you quite wrongfully yet you feel happy because your Reward in the Hereafter is very high.
‘Isa said, O wicked people: you are condemning others only on the ground of conjectures and do not condemn yourself even for the ills you are sure you possess. O worshippers of the world! You are clipping your hair and shortening your apparel to demean others but do not remove enmity and bad instincts from your own hearts. O world-worshippers! your example is like a grave which has been decorated outwardly to please onlookers but, from inside, it is full of dirty broken bones.
O slaves of the world! You are like a lamp which lightens the environment but burns itself out. O The Israelites! Go to the meetings of the religious scholars and sit there respectfully as Allah enlivens dead soul with the light of wisdom (knowledge) just as He enlivens the dead earth with drops of rain.
O The Israelites! Speaking less is a great wisdom. So it befits you to keep silence as it is the best comfort and it removes sins. So strengthen the forte of knowledge as its forte is silence. Doubtlessly the creator of the universe abhors untimely laughing and needless wandering. Allah loves a ruler and a leader who is not unmindful of his people like a responsible shepherd. Hence feel ashamed before Allah secretly as you are feeling ashamed of people openly. Since a word of wisdom is a lost property of the faithful you must endeavor to gain it before it is taken up and goes out of your reach and (its going up means those who describe the wisdom of Divine wisdom may not live).
O knowledgeable: give respect to the scholar due to his knowledge and do not quarrel with him and do not consider the unintelligent and the ignorant inferior due to their lack of knowledge or ignorance and do not remove them from your presence. Rather bring them near and teach them wisdom.
O intelligent! Every bounty which does not draw your thankfulness is like a sin which you have adopted and every sin which does not make you repent is like a chastisement which you drew on yourself. (This means that the very thought of being unable to be thankful is thankfulness in itself and to consider every error a great sin is in itself real repentance).
O wise man! Many are the troubles and calamities which you know not when will attack you so be prepared to overcome them before they fall on you.

Edited by LoveforTruth, 28 April 2012 - 01:53 AM.

[LoveforTruth]

Many contradictions and errors in the Bible, after the distorsions of human beings :

http://darulislam.po...zhar Ul Haq.pdf

[SearchingTheWay]

hi
As already observed by Christians themselves that there are many contradictions in the Bible,I would like to know if Muslims also find any contradictions in the Quran.I am told that all Muslims are in agreement that the Quran contains no contradictions. Is this true?
I am learning and hope you forgive my ignorance.

[LoveforTruth]

Hello,

You are right, there are no contradictions in the Holy Quran. To understand the Quran and be fully aware of that, we should always have the interpretation of the Messenger of Allah, Muhammad (saws) transmitted by his Pure Family, Fatima Zahra and the 12 Imams .

[LoveforTruth]

Then do they not reflect upon the Qur'an? If it had been from [any] other than Allah , they would have found within it much contradiction.

Edited by LoveforTruth, 28 April 2012 - 07:51 AM.

[placid]

Hi,

As I said on another topic:

Quote:--- Notice that Surah 3:48 says, 'God will teach Him (Jesus) the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the GOSPEL

--- Notice this also, the Calendar was restarted in year 1 --- So what God taught Jesus, or revealed to Him, from year 1 to year 33 when He died, was the Word of God, was it not? --- Quran no 1. says so, does it not? --- So what Jesus taught 'confirms' the OT, as well as the Gospel, as it says in Surah 5:46-47. End of quote.


Thus God confirms the OT in revealing to Jesus the Law as well as the Gospel, following year 1.

So there could not have been contradictions or God wouldn't have revealed 'the Law of Moses' and 'the Gospel' with contradictions, would He?

So the only was to prove 'contradictions' in the New Testament is to provide an old text, and show how it has been changed.

--- Only the critics talk of contradictions, but the angel Gabriel confirmed the former Scriptures in surah 3:3-4.

There are discrepancies in the former Scriptures, tha same as there are in the Quran, but if we are searching for truth, we can't argue about the choice of words the different translators used.

[LoveforTruth]

God says :

Those who follow the Apostle-Prophet, the Ummi, whom they find written down with them in the Taurat and the Injeel (who) enjoins them good and forbids them evil, and makes lawful to them the good things and makes unlawful to them impure things, and removes from them their burden and the shackles which were upon them; so (as for) those who believe in him and honor him and help him, and follow the light which has been sent down with him, these it is that are the successful.

Surah Araaf 7:157



Allah Almighty, with reference to the virtues of the righteous people, for whom He has reserved His mercy, says:

Those who follow and obey the Prophet who did not read and write or was the resident of Ummul Qura (Meccan), find the mention of this Prophet and his attributes and his Messengership in Torah and Bible which are with them, who commands them to do good deeds and prevents them from evils and makes clean and pure things permitted for them and makes bad and dirty things prohibited (Haram) and decreases the burden of difficult matters which were on their heads (weight of heavy covenants etc).

So now only those people are successful who trusted him and gave respect to him and helped him and followed the light which has been sent down with this prophet.

Many commentators have said that Light means the Quran and Kulaini has quoted Imam Ja‘far (a.s.) that here Light means Amirul Momineen (a.s.) and so also the Infallible Imams.

Ali bin Ibrahim has narrated that Light means Amirul Momineen. So Allah took promise from His Prophets about His Prophet that they will inform their people about the advent of the last Prophet (s.a.w.s.) and may help him.

Thus the Prophets helped by word and gave their communities the covenant and very soon, on the time of the second coming (Raja‘t) the Holy Prophet (s.a.w.s.) and all the messengers will return to this world and will help the Hazrat.

Kulaini also has, in another tradition, narrated from Imam Sadiq (a.s.) that: so (as for) those who believe in him means ̳have believed in the Imam‘ and from: and honor him and help him, and follow the light which has been sent down with him, these it is that are the successful... means ̳they did not keep away from ̳Jibt‘ and ̳Taaghoot‘ who are the first and the second (usurpers of caliphate) and their worship denotes their obedience.

Ayyashi has narrated from Imam Baqir (a.s.) that in this verse Light means Ali Ibne Abi Talib (a.s.).

The ̳Companions of the left hand‘ are Jews and Christians and Allah says about them:

Those whom We have given the Book recognize him as they recognize their sons...Surah Baqarah 2:146    

It means they recognize Muhammad (s.a.w.s.) and have read about the Wilayat of his Ahlul Bayt‘s in Taurat and Injeel. Just as they recognize their sons in their houses.

According to a reliable narration, Imam Muhammad al-Baqir said that Almighty Allah had taken an oath from Adam that he should not approach the prohibited tree. But he approached it and also tasted its fruit, as mentioned by Allah:

“And certainly, We gave a commandment to Adam before, but he forgot; and We did not find in him any determination.” (20:115)

When the Almighty sent Adam to the earth, Habil and his sister were born as twins. Then Qabil and his sister were born together. Adam commanded both of his sons to perform a sacrifice for the Almighty. Habil owned a flock of sheep while Qabil was a farmer. Habil sacrificed the best ram from his flock. Qabil on the other hand was careless of his occupation and offered unclean ears of corn and bad quality crop as gifts to Allah. Consequently the sacrifice of Habil was accepted and that of Qabil was not. In the words of Qur’an:

“And relate to them the story of the two sons of Adam with truth whey they both offered an offering, but it was accepted from one of them and was not accepted from the other.” (5: 27)

During those days whenever an offering was accepted by Allah, a fire used to appear and consume it. So Qabil made a fireplace and he was the first person who constructed a place to contain a fire. He said, “I shall worship the fire so that it accepts my offering.” Satan, the enemy of Allah, told him that the offering of Habil had been accepted and his own rejected. “If you let him live, he would beget children who would pride upon your children for the superiority he has gained over you.” Qabil accepted the suggestion and killed Habil. He came to Adam who asked him where Habil was. Qabil said, “I don’t know, you did not entrust him to me.”

When Adam learnt that Habil was murdered, he exclaimed, “O Earth! Curse of Allah be on you! For you have accepted the blood of Habil,” and continued to weep for forty days and supplicated Allah to grant him another son. He was granted a son whom he named Hibtullah because he was a gift (Hibah) from Allah. Adam was very affectionate towards him. When the Prophethood of Adam neared its end and he reached old age, the Almighty revealed to him that time had come for him to transfer the Prophetic knowledge and relics to his son Hibtullah.

“Indeed, We shall never take away from the progeny of Hibtullah the relics and Prophetic science until the day of judgment,” said Allah. “I shall never leave the Earth devoid of a scholar from his progeny. People will derive religious knowledge and spiritual guidance through this scholar. Anyone who follows Nuh or him will be assured deliverance.”

Adam was reminded of Nuh at this juncture and said, “The Almighty shall send a Prophet who will call the people towards Allah. People will reject him and Allah shall destroy them through the flood.” There was a gap of ten generations between Adam and Nuh. All the ancestors of Nuh were Prophets. Adam made a bequest to Hibtullah and told him that if anyone of them met Nuh should believe in him and follow him in order to be saved from the deluge.

When Adam was on his deathbed, he summoned Hibtullah and told him to convey his salaams to Archangel Gabriel or any other angel if he happened to see them. “Tell them that your father requests them for a fruit of Paradise.” Hibtullah met Archangel Gabriel and conveyed the message of his respected father. Archangel Gabriel said, “O Hibtullah! Your father has departed to meet his Creator and I have come to perform his prayers (of dead).”

When Hibtullah returned home, he saw that Adam had departed for his heavenly abode. Archangel Gabriel taught him the method of ghusl (ritual bath) of dead body. Hibtullah bathed Adam and when it was the time of prayers of dead, Hibtullah told Archangel Gabriel to stand in front and pray. Archangel Gabriel said, “As Allah had once ordered us to prostrate before Adam, it is not proper that we lead (Imamate) any of his sons.” Hibtullah stood before Archangel Gabriel and offered the Prayer of the Dead. Archangel Gabriel stood behind him with a group of angels and recited thirty takbirs (sayingAllahu Akbar). The Almighty Allah then commanded Archangel Gabriel to reduce 25 takbirs for the progeny of Adam. Consequently, it is the practice among us to recite five takbirs, although the Holy Prophet has recited seven and nine takbirs for the martyrs of battle of Badr. Hibtullah buried Adam.

Qabil approached him and said, “I know my father has entrusted you especially with the knowledge that he kept away from me and it is the same knowledge with which Habil prayed and made his offering that was honored. I killed him so that he would not have children to pride over my children. If you do not give me a little of that knowledge bequeathed by our father, I shall kill you too.”

Thus Hibtullah and his sons used to fervently guard the Prophetic knowledge and divine relics until the time of Nuh. During the time of Nuh, people were shown the will of Adam and it was learnt that Adam had prophesied the advent of Nuh. The people believed in Nuh, testified to the veracity of his claim and obeyed him. Adam had also commanded Hibtullah to read his will at the beginning of every year and renew their oath. That particular day became the day of feast for them. They continued the ritual year after year. Every succeeding Prophet made similar bequests until the advent of Prophet Muhammad. People recognized Nuh through prior knowledge and that is exactly the meaning of the verse,

“Certainly, We sent Nuh to his people so he said, O my people! Serve Allah, you have no god other than Him; surely I fear for you the chastisement of a grievous day.” (7:59)

There were some Prophets between Adam and Nuh but they did not declare their Prophethood to the people. That is the reason why Qur’an does not mention their names. Some Prophets however declared their Prophethood as their names are stated in Qur’an:

“And (We sent) apostles We have mentioned to you before and apostles we have not mentioned to you;”(4:164)

Imam explains that Prophets mentioned by name were those who declared their Prophethood and Prophets not mentioned by name were those who kept their mission secret. Nuh propagated religion among his people for 950 years. He did not have any assistant Prophet. People rejected all the Prophets between Adam and Nuh, as mentioned by Allah. When the time of Nuh’s Prophethood approached its end, the Almighty sent a revelation to Nuh and commanded him to bequeath the Prophetic sciences, the relics and other trophies to his son: “Indeed, We shall never take away from the progeny of Sam the Prophetic inheritance like I had caused it to remain from Adam to your generation I shall never leave the earth devoid of a scholar from your progeny. People will understand religion through him and he shall be the means of their salvation especially for the people who are born between the times of two Prophets.”

Hud became the Prophet after Sam. There were some known as well as concealed Prophets between Nuh and Hud. Nuh had already predicted that Allah the Almighty shall send a Prophet named Hud. “He shall invite his people towards Allah while they will reject him. So, Allah will destroy the people. Therefore, one who lives until that time must believe in and follow him. The Almighty shall deliver you from His chastisement.” Nuh commanded Sam to read this will and renew the vow at the beginning of each year on the day of ‘Id.

When Hud arrived the people, he saw the will of Nuh regarding him. So, the people believed in him, confessed to his truth and followed him. They obtained security from divine punishment. Allah the Almighty says,

“And to ‘ad (We sent) their brother Hud. He said, O my people! Serve Allah, you have no god other than Him; will you not then guard (against evil)?” (7:65) “And the same did Ibrahim enjoin on his sons and (so did) Ya‘qub. O my sons! Surely, Allah has chosen for you (this) faith, therefore die not unless you are Muslims.”(2:132)

Some from the progeny of Hud were appointed to keep them informed about the advent of Ibrahim and to take oaths regarding him. There was a gap of ten generations between Hud and Ibrahim. All (ancestors of Ibrahim) were Prophets. Thus, it is divine practice that between two great Prophets there is a gap of ten, nine or eight generations. All of them used to be Prophets and they used to prophesize the advent of the coming Prophet. They also took the vow from their legatees that they would believe and obey him. All the Prophets took such oaths of fealty like Adam, Nuh, Salih, Shu‘ayb and Ibrahim. This continued until the time of Yusuf.

After Yusuf it was transferred to the progeny of his brothers, al-Asbat. The series reached Musa the son of ‘Imran. Between Yusuf and Musa also was a gap of ten generations. Then Allah sent them to the Pharaoh, Haman and Qarun. The Almighty sent Prophets one after the other to every people. People continued to reject the Prophets and continued to perish due to divine chastisement. This continued until the time of the Israelites. These people murdered as many as two, three or four Prophets everyday. Sometimes as many as seventy Prophets were slain together and the Israelites did not care. They remained busy in their occupations all day. When Torah was revealed to Musa, he gave glad tidings of Prophet Muhammad. Yusha‘ ibn Nun was the successor of Musa and Qata was the successor of Yusha‘ ibn Nun, as mentioned in the Holy Qur’an,

“And when Musa said to his servant (Qata).” (18:60)

Thus, all the Prophets continued to prophesize the advent of Prophet Muhammad as mentioned by Allah in Qur’an,

“Those who follow the Apostle Prophet, the Ummi, whom they find written down with them in the Torah and the Injeel, (who) enjoins them good and forbids them evil, and makes lawful to them the good things and makes unlawful to them impure things…” (7:157),

and in the words of ‘Isa,

“O Children of Israel! Surely, I am the apostle of Allah to you, verifying that which is before me of the Torah and giving the good news of an Apostle who will come after me, his name being Ahmad.” (61:6)

Thus Musa and ‘Isa had clearly prophesied about Prophet Muhammad just as the previous Prophets had informed about the Prophets to come after them. This continued until the time of Prophet Muhammad. When the last moments of the Holy Prophet arrived, the Almighty revealed to him to entrust all the knowledge and relics to ‘Ali Ibn Abi-Talib and promised that they should remain in his progeny forever just as they had remained from the time of Adam. The Holy Qur’an says,

“Surely Allah chose Adam and Nuh and the descendants of Ibrahim and the descendants of ‘Imran above the nations. Offspring, one of the other; and Allah is Hearing, Knowing.” (3:33–34)

Muhammad and his progeny are included in the progeny of Ibrahim. Imam Muhammad al-Baqir says, “Indeed Allah has not made the knowledge as ignorance. He did not leave the question of scholars in dark. He has provided express authentication for each Prophet or Imam. He has introduced them fully to the people. It has never been the case that Allah has created a person to be appointed as a Prophet for people; the people do not accept his authority and that he is not conversant with the divine commands and secrets of creation. Allah has never entrusted the affairs of this religion to a proximate angel or a Prophet. He selects an angel as a messenger through whom he conveys His likes and dislikes to the Prophet. He also conveys through this angel the past and future knowledge. So the Prophets learnt this knowledge through their predecessors, the saints and those who were specially selected by Allah.” Almighty Allah says in the Holy Qur’an,

“Indeed We have given the book and wisdom to the progeny of Ibrahim and gave them a great kingdom.”(4:54)

‘Book’ denotes Prophethood, ‘Wisdom’ indicates the great intellectual position of those personalities, and all of them are from this progeny; some excelling over others. Almighty Allah has appointed Prophethood among them and ordained that His message shall be conveyed and protected by these people alone. After Prophets, come their progeny, their brothers and family. One who acts with faith in the message of these Prophets achieves salvation but one who considers that the bearers of Allah’s message and holders of exalted station are not these personalities but some other undeserving relatives and acts against the divine sciences without the medium of Prophets has actually belied Almighty Allah. They have gone against the will and obedience of Allah. They have not acknowledged the repositories of the Divine message that Allah has appointed. Thus, they are misguided and they misguide their followers. They shall have no excuse in the Resurrection Day. There is no proof except that of the progeny of Ibrahim. Almighty Allah has said,

“Or do they envy the people for what Allah has given them of His grace? But indeed we have given to Ibrahim’s children the Book and the wisdom, and we have given them a grand kingdom.” (4:54)

The proof is only for the Prophets and their family, and it shall remain so until the day of Judgment, as mentioned in the Book of Allah,

“In houses which Allah has permitted to be exalted and that His name may be remembered in them; there glorify Him therein in the mornings and the evenings.”(24:36)

Imam explains, “These are our houses and the houses of the Prophets, the guides and the wise people. This is the rope of faith by catching hold of which people before you achieved success and through the same connection people would attain salvation in the future.” Indeed the Almighty has stated in His book,

“And we gave to him Ishaq and Ya‘qub, each did we guide, and Nuh did we guide before, and of his descendants, Dawud and Sulayman and Ayyub and Yusuf and Harun; and thus do we reward those who do good (to others). And Zakariyya and Yahya and ‘Isa and Ilyas; everyone was of the good; And Isma‘il and Al-Yasha and Yunus and Lut; and everyone we made to excel (in) the worlds; And from among their fathers and their descendants and their brethren, and we chose them and guided them to the right way. This is Allah’s guidance, He guides thereby whom He pleases of His servants; and if they had set up others (with Him), certainly what they did would have become ineffectual for them. These are they to whom we gave the book and the wisdom and the prophecy; therefore if these disbelieve in it we have already entrusted with it a people who are not disbelievers in it.” (6:84-89)

Imam explained that even if the whole community rejects the Prophet, the people of his house (Ahl al-Bayt) would remain firm in their faith and the message of the Prophet. They shall also be their legatees and successors. They will be the repositories of the Divine sciences and under no circumstances will they be fallible nor will they be contaminated with falsehood, evil designs or show-off. There is no doubt in whatever Allah has stated regarding the successors of His Prophets.

They are infallible and to love them is to recompense for the Prophet’s labor in conveying the Divine message. They are bestowed with Wilayah and Imamate (Guardianship and guidance). They are the legatees of the Prophet. “O people! Derive lessons from this, ponder upon my words, align yourself with the knowledge and Imamate that Allah has bestowed upon us and attain salvation through these means so that on the day of Judgment you would have proof and gain success from it. These personalities are your intercessors with Allah. Your Wilayah shall not reach Allah but through them. Thus, it is incumbent on Allah to befriend and not punish those who act upon this.

On the other hand, it is certain that Allah shall degrade and punish those who do not act upon this. Indeed, the mission of some Prophets was confined to a particular group of people and the Prophethood of other Prophets was general. Nuh was sent for the people of the whole world. His Prophethood was general and included Messengership (Risalah), Hud was appointed specially for the people of ‘ad. Salih was given the responsibility of guiding the people of Thamud, a tiny village on the bank of a river consisting of only forty odd houses. Shu‘ayb was designated as the Prophet for Madyan, a habitation of less then forty families. Initially the Prophethood of Ibrahim was for the people of Kosariya, a district in Iraq. Later he migrated from there but this migration was not due to war or conflict, as Allah says,

“And he said, ‘Surely I fly to my lord, He will guide me.’” (37:99)

Thus, the flight (Hijrah) of Ibrahim was not due to war. Ishaq was the Prophet after Ibrahim. Ya‘qub was appointed as a Prophet for the Canaan region. He later moved to Egypt and spent the rest of his life there but after his demise, his mortal remains were brought toCanaan and buried there. As regards the dream of Yusuf wherein he saw eleven stars and the Sun and Moon prostrating before him, it is certain that his Prophethood was for the people of Egypt. He had twelve successors. Later, the Almighty appointed Musa and Harun in Egypt. Yusha‘ ibn Nun was the vicegerent of Musa for the Israelites.

There are many other Prophets in the Israelites some of whom have been mentioned by Allah in Qur’an and some are not. Then the Almighty sent ‘Isa ibn Maryam (son of Mary) for the Israelites. His Prophethood was confined to the area of Jerusalem. ‘Isa had twelve disciples and the faith remained concealed in his family members. After ‘Isa was raised to the heavens, the Almighty sent Prophet Muhammad for all the creatures. He was the final Prophet. He was also succeeded by twelve successors appointed by Allah. We have seen some of them and some shall come in the future. This is an account of Prophethood and Messengership.”

Every Prophet of the Israelites, whether special or general had twelve successors. The practice of ‘Isa’s twelve successors is replicated in the successorship of Muhammad. (The appointment of) ‘Ali was on the practice of ‘Isa. This is a brief account of Prophets and the Divine practice of sending Prophets and Messengers—peace of Allah be upon all of them.”

A trustworthy tradition from Imam al-Ridha and an authentic report from Ja‘far as-Sadiq mentions that Ulu’l-‘Azm Prophets are named thus because they possessed greatness (‘Azm) and brought a new shari‘ah. For instance, Nuh was sent with a book and a shari‘ah different from that of Adam; and the succeeding Prophets followed his book and shari‘ah. This continued until the advent of Ibrahim who came with a book different from that of Nuh and a new shari‘ah. He did not deny the book and shari‘ah of Nuh but they were abrogated and it was no more valid to act upon them. Prophets contemporary to and succeeding Ibrahim followed his shari‘ah and book until the time of Musa. Musa came with Torah. Torah abrogated the shari‘ah of Ibrahim.

All the contemporary Prophets of Musa and succeeding ones followed the shari‘ah of Musa until the arrival of ‘Isa with Injeel. The shari‘ah of Musa and Torah were abrogated. All the Prophets during the time of ‘Isa and the successors after him followed the shari‘ah of Injeel. This continued until the advent of our Prophet, Muhammad al-Mustafa. Thus, these are the five great Ulu’l-‘Azm Prophets. They are the best of Prophets and messengers and the shari‘ah of Prophet Muhammad shall remain in force until the Resurrection Day. There is to be no Prophet after him. Things permitted by him will remain permissible until Resurrection Day and things prohibited by him shall remain prohibited until Judgment Day. Any person who claims Prophethood after Prophet Muhammad or brings a book after Qur’an, claiming it to be of divine origin, is a liar. Anyone who comes to know of such claims would be permitted to execute him.

Another reliable tradition from Imam al-Ridha says that Imam as-Sadiq states that Ulu’l-‘Azm Prophets are called thus because of their confession to the greatness of Prophet Muhammad and his successors including Imam al-Mahdi and their oath of accepting the greatness (Azm) of these divine personalities. As Adam had not remember this vow, Almighty Allah says,

“And certainly We gave a commandment to Adam before, but he forgot; and We did not find in him any determination (Azm).” (20:115)[4]

‘Ali Ibn Ibrahim explains this ayah (Qur'anic Verse) and says that Ulu’l-‘Azm are those Prophets who had precedence over other Prophets in confessing to the greatness of these five Messengers. They also expressed belief in all Prophets preceding and succeeding them. They were also patient when their people denied their claims.

[soloman]

Hi Placid

placid, on 25 April 2012 - 07:22 AM, said:

Hi Solomon,

I enjoy our dialogue, but I don't want you to misunderstand me.

I also enjoy our dialogue ,but I don't want you to misunderstand me as well.

placid, on 28 April 2012 - 09:08 AM, said:

So there could not have been contradictions or God wouldn't have revealed 'the Law of Moses' and 'the Gospel' with contradictions, would He?

So the only was to prove 'contradictions' in the New Testament is to provide an old text, and show how it has been changed.

You are totally distorting everything . It is internationally recognized by scholars the world over that the gospel revealed to Jesus in the Quran is not the same
as the gospels of Mathew , Mark , Luke and John.

It is a known fact that these 4 gospels were a collection of accounts by these men.

But you keep referring to the Gospel in the Quran given to Jesus as the same as that of the Mathew,Mark, Luke and John.  

So if I say their are discrepancies in these Gospals , I mean the Gospels of MATHEW, MARK,LUKE and JOHN.

Their is no discrepancies in the Gospel bestowed on Jesus , so you cannot refer to Jesus Gospel when I refer to the discrepancies in MATHEW,MARK,LUKE and JOHN.

placid, on 28 April 2012 - 09:08 AM, said:

So the only was to prove 'contradictions' in the New Testament is to provide an old text, and show how it has been changed.

That is also incorrect Placid.

It is not only words but meanings of sentences that differ between the 4 gospels .Again I'm not talking about the Gospel of Jesus in the Quran - it is perfect.

I'll give you 1 example:   Mathew 11:14 Jesus said :" And if you are willing to accept it ,he is the Elijah who has to come."

  John 1 : 21 They asked him , "Then who are you,? Are you Elijah?"  He said , " I am not"

Now there is two opposite view points of the same man. That's no word that has been translated differently.

The whole meaning and structure is different. Was  John the Baptist Elijah or was he not ?

I ask you again, Who was right ,Jesus or John? Take your pick.

This is no choice of words  of different translators- These are direct answers and statements coming from these two holy men.

Their is many more contradictions Mathew ,Mark ,Luke and john made - lets clear the above point first.

[placid]

Hi Soloman,
Question 17 is the next on the list of ‘contradictions,’ from Post 1

--- 17) The Elijah mystery: (Malachi 4:5) Elijah must return before the final days of the world. (Matthew 11:12-14) Jesus said that John the Baptist was Elijah. (Matthew 17:12- 13) Jesus insists that Elijah has already come, and everyone understood him to mean John the Baptist. (Mark 9:13) Jesus insists that Elijah has already come. (John 1:21) John the Baptist maintained that he was not Elijah.

Q17. ---  The prophecy in Malachi says, in 4:
5. Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet
Before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord.
⁶ And he will turn
The hearts of the fathers to the children,
And the hearts of the children to their fathers.

God spoke to Zacharias  about their son, John, in Luke 1:
¹³ But the angel said to him, “Do not be afraid, Zacharias, for your prayer is heard; and your wife Elizabeth will bear you a son, and you shall call his name John.
¹⁴ And you will have joy and gladness, and many will rejoice at his birth.
¹⁵ For he will be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink. He will also be filled with the Holy Spirit, even from his mother’s womb.
¹⁶ And he will turn many of the children of Israel to the Lord their God.
¹⁷ He will also go before Him in the spirit and power of Elijah,
‘to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children,’ and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just, to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.”

Notice the similar wording, “He will turn the hearts of the fathers to their children.”

There is no doubt about it that the prophecy refers to John who was to come as the forerunner of Jesus.
--- But in saying that John “WAS ELIJAH” --- are you saying that John was the ‘reincarnation’ of Elijah. --- Elijah was born once in human form, and --- John, being born of Elizabeth, was he the same Elijah that had lived in 900 BC?

The Bible doesn’t teach ‘reincarnation,’ --- However, the miraculous revelation is that “He was filled with the Holy Spirit from His mother’s womb.”
--- You have no doubt read in the Quran  21:90, where God ‘adjusted his wife to have a child’ --- because she was barren.
--- Now since it says that God gave him the Spirit and power of Elijah and filled him with the Holy Spirit from his mother’s womb, --- does that make him Elijah?  

17. (Matthew 11:12-14) Jesus said that John the Baptist was Elijah.
--- In v 14 it says, “ And if you are willing to receive it, he is Elijah who is to come.
¹⁵ He who has ears to hear, let him hear!
This was the revelation of prophecy, but only those who had Spiritual discernment would understand it --- (he who has ears to hear).

17.(Matthew 17:12- 13) Jesus insists that Elijah has already come,


--- I don’t see any ‘insisting,’ --- but the disciples asked this in Matthew 17:
10. And His disciples asked Him, saying, “Why then do the scribes say that Elijah must come first?”
¹¹ Jesus answered and said to them, “Indeed, Elijah is coming first  and will restore all things.
¹² But I say to you that Elijah has come already, and they did not know him but did to him whatever they wished. Likewise the Son of Man is also about to suffer at their hands.”
13. Then the disciples understood that He spoke to them of John the Baptist.

--- John had restored the ‘fathers to their children’ in his ministry when the throngs came out to hear his preaching (as a voice crying in the wilderness).
--- He was preaching repentance and restoration of families, and as they repented they were baptized by John in the Jordan River.
--- No one identified him with Elijah till Jesus revealed it to them, 2-3 years after the Priests first asked. --- And the disciples were still left with their thoughts, --- Was John a ‘reincarnation’ of Elijah, --- or did he play the role of Elijah in the NT?
--- (There are Christians today that believe that Elijah is still coming as one of the two ‘witnesses’ in the Book of Revelation.)

17. (John 1:21) John the Baptist maintained that he was not Elijah.
¹⁹ Now this is the testimony of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, “Who are you?”
²⁰ He confessed, and did not deny, but confessed, “I am not the Christ.”
²¹ And they asked him, “What then? Are you Elijah?”
He said, “I am not.”
“Are you the Prophet?”
And he answered, “No.”
²² Then they said to him, “Who are you, that we may give an answer to those who sent us? What do you say about yourself?”
²³ He said: “I am
‘The voice of one crying in the wilderness:
“Make straight the way of the Lord,”’
as the prophet Isaiah said.” Isaiah 40:3-5.

--- There were three people that were prophesied to come to the Jews,
Christ, The Messiah, --- Elijah, --- and the Prophet like Moses.
This was asked to John early in his ministry, before Jesus came on the scene, and the Revelation given to the disciples was 2-3 years later, after the experience on the Mount of Transfiguration, in Matthew 17.
John would truthfully say he was not Elijah, because he wasn’t, --- but Jesus identified him in the role of the ‘Elijah who was to come.’
--- John was killed long before this interpreted prophecy was revealed so John perhaps wouldn’t know he fulfilled the role of Elijah until he got to heaven.
--- (Jesus said “He who has ears to hear, let him hear.) --- in the Scripture the word ‘hear’ means ‘to hear and understand.’
--- So if there were those who didn’t understand it, --- it made no great difference.

Also, if the disciples told it openly, the Jews didn’t believe it because when Jesus was on the cross and uttered the words that have never really been interpreted, “Eli Eli, Lama Sabatheni,” --- they said, “He’s calling for Elijah, --- let us see if Elijah will come down and save Him.” --- They were perhaps expecting Elijah to come in some spectacular way compared to his being ‘caught up in a chariot of fire.’

I will respond to the first part later


Placid